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#1 2005-02-14 22:30:22

phrakture
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From: behind you
Registered: 2003-10-29
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minimalist WMs

well, I've been using WMI for some time now... I like it alot... my qualm is that wmi-10 is the last version of normal wmi... wmii will "replace" it, but it seems to go far beyond what I need, and it seems overcomplicated...

Now, many people would say "just keep using wmi-10", but I'm not one to really stick with dead apps... so, I've been slowly looking around for some decent replacements...

ion seems like the best bet... with ratpoison a far 2nd...

as for ion, I have some reservations: does floatws(?) handle transients well (or floating windows or whatever ion calls them?) - for instance, in WMI, transient windows were handled differently, but the biggest problem was that would could not cycle through them as if they were normal windows, and they would sometimes get lost behind the tiled/fullscreen windows... and it would take a series of minimizes to bring them back... how does ion handle this?

is ion3 doing anything cool, or is it just minor feature enhancements....?

lua would be fun to learn too... I haven't had any reason to do that yet...

any other good WMs of this ilk that I should check out?

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#2 2005-02-15 04:46:28

Dusty
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From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
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Re: minimalist WMs

I think the best case is if you take over development on wmi-10. I'll use it, I promise. I just gotta get off KDE here...

Ion kinda sucks compared to wmi... nothing really compares to wmi that I've tried.

Dusty

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#3 2005-02-15 05:00:20

soniX
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From: Oslo, Norway
Registered: 2004-01-23
Posts: 161

Re: minimalist WMs

that is actually a good idea Dusty

fork it (as its dying anyway) and create arch-wm...
would be pretty cool if arch had its own wm wouldnt it ?

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#4 2005-02-15 06:01:23

luisfelipe
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Registered: 2004-05-06
Posts: 96

Re: minimalist WMs

Well, I really liked wmi too, and used it for quite some time. But now I got back to evilwm.
As far as dead appz go, evilwm is quite dead. But there are a lot of forks (I think the
main one is badwm) that are being developed.
The thing is, evilwm is just perfect for my needs.

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#5 2005-02-15 07:01:30

-Anders
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From: Denmark
Registered: 2004-03-12
Posts: 19

Re: minimalist WMs

I use Ratpoison myself. It acts more or less exactly like screen in its window-handling. Some like it, most dont.

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#6 2005-02-15 16:02:51

phrakture
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Re: minimalist WMs

Dusty wrote:

I think the best case is if you take over development on wmi-10.

Yeah, WMI-11 will be released in 2007 Q3...

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#7 2005-02-16 22:26:59

xerxes2
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From: Malmoe, Sweden
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Re: minimalist WMs

Cool phrakture, if I live then I try it,  big_smile

I run Ion on both WS and laptop, I don't think I'll ever use a floatws again,


arch + gentoo + initng + python = enlisy

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#8 2005-02-16 23:03:43

phrakture
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Re: minimalist WMs

xerxes2 wrote:

Cool phrakture, if I live then I try it,  big_smile

I run Ion on both WS and laptop, I don't think I'll ever use a floatws again,

how's the configuration for that... I have mixed feelings about using lua for it (lua is cool and all, but sometimes i like *not* having to write code for that sorta thing)

it'd be nice to see someone's configs... just to see what spiffy things can be done

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#9 2005-02-16 23:29:02

xerxes2
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Re: minimalist WMs

I haven't configure more than my hotkeys and menu and that's pretty easy, just copy a few(almost ten if you want all) files over to ~./ion2 and start fiddling with Lua code, there is default code already so it's not so difficult to do it,,
there are tons of documentation on Ion-Lua on the website if you want specific features,


arch + gentoo + initng + python = enlisy

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#10 2005-02-17 14:14:25

cmp
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Registered: 2005-01-03
Posts: 350

Re: minimalist WMs

ion is really cool. the only program that really sucked with it, was scribus, but then i just launced a floating workspace and used scribus from it.
as far as configuration is concerned xerxes2 is absoultelty right it's kinda easy, just copy the files and then do some copy/paste programming.

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#11 2005-02-17 16:37:37

Dusty
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Re: minimalist WMs

Ion is probably the best thing you're going to find next to wmi. Its not as easy to configure or use, but its a close second.

I'm saying this because I assume you think like me, since you're using wmi already. Loads of people might say its a first. I say its second. wink

Dusty

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#12 2005-02-17 16:42:36

phrakture
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Re: minimalist WMs

Yeah I know.  I'm still holding off until wmii becomes usable, then I'll try it out... *crosses fingers*

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#13 2005-02-19 07:11:29

skoal
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Posts: 612
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Re: minimalist WMs

I know it's probably not what you had in mind by minimalist WMs, but recently I went back to another Linux box and started using Fluxbox again.  They have a "0.9x" branch going.

It's pretty damn fast, has a nice key grabber, and you can turn off all window decorations (and I mean everything).  Mentioning "fluxbox" in this thread is probably "heresy", but getting reaquainted with it recently, I found it almost as utalitarian as "wmi".

The best part about the "0.9x" branch is that there are no "transient" windows.  You can have the window remember it's decorations, place, and anything else.  You can set it in your "~/.fluxbox/app" file or do it manually on a window decoration.  I closed out a session, fired it back up and all my windows appeared in the exact same spot with the exact same decor (which was none in my case).

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#14 2005-02-24 16:28:13

cmp
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Registered: 2005-01-03
Posts: 350

Re: minimalist WMs

Does anybody experience focus problems with firefox?
If I have more than one window opend, I have to reload the page, before be able to input anything via keyboard.

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#15 2005-02-25 14:20:08

tomk
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From: Ireland
Registered: 2004-07-21
Posts: 9,838

Re: minimalist WMs

cmp, I think you should ask your question here. Anyone who drops into this thread will be expecting to talk about Minimalist WMs, as per the subject.

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#16 2005-02-25 17:13:36

cmp
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Registered: 2005-01-03
Posts: 350

Re: minimalist WMs

When I recently started Xfce4 to test the transfocus tool written by phrakture, I realiesed, that by now managing windows by hand seems too much for me.
But after each use of ion I'm thinking about to fork the project to make a mouse/keyboard minimalist wm and not a keyboard only. But I doubt that I will ever finish such a project. 

@tomk oh, sorry, I forgot to mention that the focus problems occur only when using ion.
but I really should create another thread or search a bit more on google big_smile

edit: a little tipp: have a look at this firefox extensiosn, with it you ain't have to touch the mouse ever again wink.

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#17 2005-02-28 16:44:35

phrakture
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Re: minimalist WMs

cmp wrote:

But after each use of ion I'm thinking about to fork the project to make a mouse/keyboard minimalist wm and not a keyboard only. But I doubt that I will ever finish such a project.

sounds like wmi

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#18 2005-02-28 19:03:04

jerem
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From: France
Registered: 2005-01-15
Posts: 310

Re: minimalist WMs

I'm using pekwm and it is a nice robust app. However, it lacks some fluxbox features BUT fluxbox crashes sometimes or sends strange messages, whereas pekwm works out of the box and properly.

Pekwm is somewhat similar to openbox...

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#19 2005-03-06 01:27:37

phrakture
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Re: minimalist WMs

Dusty wrote:

I think the best case is if you take over development on wmi-10. I'll use it, I promise. I just gotta get off KDE here...

Heh, I looked at the source today, not hard at all - really clean and well structured...

And I've decided I don't like at all where wmii is going...

If I can build up a list of enough feature requests, I'll do it...

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#20 2005-03-06 01:58:59

Dusty
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Re: minimalist WMs

Have you talked to the maintainer about forking or taking over the original project? What's wrong with wmii that you don't like? I'll have to try it soon.

Dusty

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#21 2005-03-06 03:29:14

phrakture
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Re: minimalist WMs

Dusty wrote:

Have you talked to the maintainer about forking or taking over the original project? What's wrong with wmii that you don't like? I'll have to try it soon.

Dusty

No I haven't talked to them yet, beacuse right now it's just a pipedream.. there's only like 2 things I'd add (internal action to cycle floating windows while in frame mode, and a few things to the session state) but if I get enough features / bug fixes (if there are any) then I may do it.
In that case, I'd talk to them.

About wmii - I think it's overly complicated and the configuration is bad (maybe it will get better later).  Basically they set it up so everything is handled by this pseudo-filesystem... like "cat mon/0/clients/2/name" would output the name of window #2 (file structure is probably way off) - they have no configuration mechanism except for this...so the config file is like "wmir -s ~/.wmii/wmi-0 write some/path/to/frame-color #ffffff" and a bunch of lines of that...

Also, it just seems to work slower and more haphazardly, I guess.... try it out and see what you think... admittedly it's still an alpha, but it just seems like a step backwards....

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#22 2005-03-06 19:47:18

Dusty
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From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
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Re: minimalist WMs

phrakture wrote:

No I haven't talked to them yet, beacuse right now it's just a pipedream.. there's only like 2 things I'd add (internal action to cycle floating windows while in frame mode, and a few things to the session state) but if I get enough features / bug fixes (if there are any) then I may do it.
In that case, I'd talk to them.

There's one little bug that drives me nuts... sometimes I close a window (alt-F4) the keybindings don't listen to me anymore.  I usually end up closing a program and then trying to open another one or change to another workspace and I have to use the mouse.

I'll have a look at wmii, I guess I have the time to build it today.

Dusty

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#23 2005-03-06 20:12:52

Dusty
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Re: minimalist WMs

Two more feature requests (just started using wmi again, things come up):

-ability to have specific programs open on specific workspaces
-ability to use the mouse (*choke*) to swith workspaces simply by moving it to the edge of the screen... then it moves onto the next workspace. (I know I can wheel on the workspace bar, but that's not as cool)

Dusty

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#24 2005-03-07 15:57:42

phrakture
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Re: minimalist WMs

Dusty wrote:

There's one little bug that drives me nuts... sometimes I close a window (alt-F4) the keybindings don't listen to me anymore.

Hmm, I use ctrl+alt+c to close windows... but be careful, IIRC caps-lock defeats the keybindings (on purpose) so you can hit caps lock and use alt+i in an app...

Dusty wrote:

-ability to have specific programs open on specific workspaces

I thought there was an action for that already... umm hook-something which attaches something to that workspace... but then it's always there... maybe like an exec-workspace command would be cool

Dusty wrote:

-ability to use the mouse (*choke*) to swith workspaces simply by moving it to the edge of the screen... then it moves onto the next workspace. (I know I can wheel on the workspace bar, but that's not as cool)

hmmm that could be done

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#25 2005-03-07 16:29:46

Dusty
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From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
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Re: minimalist WMs

phrakture wrote:
Dusty wrote:

There's one little bug that drives me nuts... sometimes I close a window (alt-F4) the keybindings don't listen to me anymore.

Hmm, I use ctrl+alt+c to close windows... but be careful, IIRC caps-lock defeats the keybindings (on purpose) so you can hit caps lock and use alt+i in an app...

I could try a different keybinding, but I'm guessing this isn't related to which key is pressed. The F4 key shouldn't be any different from C... When I close the last window on the workspace is when it usually happens. Then I can't switch back to workspace 1 (Win-1) or to input mode (Alt-i) or anything. Its like the key manager isn't listening. I workaround by using the mouse to switch workspaces, then it works fine.

Dusty wrote:

-ability to have specific programs open on specific workspaces

I thought there was an action for that already... umm hook-something which attaches something to that workspace... but then it's always there... maybe like an exec-workspace command would be cool

I'll investigate it, I've never heard of this hook config... you sure you aren't confused with ion? :-D

Dusty

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