[SOLVED]Beginners Guide X Installation Clarification

Don Coyote · 2010-09-10 06:19:51

I wasn't sure which forum to go to with this, but it seems first an issue with the Beginners Guide.

I'm attempting my first install of Arch (have been a Zenwalk user for a few years) on a ThinkPad X201i. I was having various problems with a Zenwalk install on it and looking around found the Arch design principles very promising. I've been able to move past the initial graphics and network problems I was having just by following the guide, but have stumbled now with the X installation.

Under Step 2: Install X the guide reads:
"Warning: Since v. 1.8, xorg-server uses multiple configuration files within /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d, instead of the singular xorg.conf. xorg.conf is mostly deprecated, even though it is parsed by Xorg-server during its initialisation. It is highly recommended to follow the instructions given in the Xorg wiki page to set up X until this section is updated. This in particular applies to all configuration tools that generate a xorg.conf file instead of the multiple configuration files in /etc/xorg.conf.d."

Trying to read this like subroutine call, I wasn't sure how much of the Xorg wiki page to follow or where to resume proceeding through the beginners guide when done. Going back later I noticed the same warning under step 3, so I take it I am supposed to follow the Xorg wiki until I am to the point of installing a desktop environment. From that wiki I installed xorg and evdev. It then reads:
"Xorg-server can be initiated by the startx command. You should only use it in case you have properly edited the ~/.xinitrc file."

I'm not seeing any instructions on editing this file and none of the varibles I'm looking at in it seem obvious to me. I'm looking at some of the other configuration documentation, but it mostly deals with the xorg.conf file which the warning above said is (mostly) deprecated. Continuing on in the Xorg wiki the starting x section reads:
"Note: If you just installed Xorg, there is an empty .xinitrc file in your $HOME that you need to either delete or edit in order for X to start properly. If you do not do this X will show a blank screen with what appears to be no errors in your Xorg.0.log. Simply deleting it will get it running with a default X environment."

I do not see the .xinitrc file (should show with ls -a, right?) in the /home directory or the /root directory, or even in the home directory of the user I created. I did find it in /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc. Is this the one I'm supposed to delete? I did reboot the system and tried startx, but it went to a blank screen and locked up the system.

I didn't see a driver for my video (Intel Corp Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller) with the pacman scan, but I'm just looking for basic functionality at this point so that shouldn't matter. The last page that shows up in /var/log/Xorg.0.log doesn't seem to have anything out of order on it. Any advice on where to go from here?

Last edited by Don Coyote (2010-09-10 20:20:13)

Inxsible · 2010-09-10 06:24:43

Ever since the xorg went to 1.8, the Xorg installation part has become a bit confusing in the Beginner's Guide.

The thing is: you don't *need* to have an xorg.conf file. But if you do have one, it will be used. So you have a choice as to whether you want to create one or simply use the files under /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d
In your case, I would just start off with

pacman -S xorg xf86-input-evdev xf86-video-intel

If you are using a laptop, then also install xf86-input-synaptics which will enable your touchpad

you do not automatically get a .xinitrc file. You can however create one. The best way is to copy the /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc to ~/.xinitrc and then modify according to the WM/DE that you are using.

All video drivers are generally named as xf86-video-manufacturer, so your should be xf86-video-intel

Don Coyote · 2010-09-10 06:47:04

So since I don't have an xorg.conf file, why can't I boot into a basic Xwindows environment? Do I need to create that file _or_ copy the xinitrc file over? I just want to verify the X will run before starting on a WM/DE, so is there anything I would have to modify in xinitrc at this point?

The pacman scan showed 2 drivers that say Intel in their description, an i740 and an i810/i830/i915/945G/G965+. I assumed I was looking for something to match up with the grep VGA result, which in my case doesn't show any numbers. Should the second one cover it?

I have a trackpoint without a touchpad. Will synaptics function for it as well? The logs I looked at seemed to be taking input from the trackpoint fine...

Last edited by Don Coyote (2010-09-10 06:51:58)

Inxsible · 2010-09-10 06:51:53

.xinitrc file is nothing but a simple text file which gets executed when you startx.

so for eg. if you use i3 as your WM, then in the .xinitrc you would have

exec i3

well you can have additional things in there as well, but lets not go there just yet.

And yes, if you have an intel video card, xf86-video-intel is what you will need for your graphics drivers.

mhertz · 2010-09-10 07:37:58

I know Inxsible allready told you everything needed to know, so my post i pretty redundant, but just to cut it out in large letters(or whatever it's called) to a fellow ex-Zenwalk user, then:

When installing xorg-xinit(part of the xorg group), then each newly created user gets a .xinitrc file copied to it's home folder(/home/<user>). from the skel folder.

When running startx without an .xinitrc file, then the system one is used under /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc, and that is set to run twm(installed as part of xorg group).

To install xorg, you can save some space by just installing xorg-server and xorg-xinit(this will auto install also xf86-input-evdev, as it's a dependency for xorg-server), instead of the full xorg group(e.g. you'll save twm, vesa, and extra fonts and such).

Just run without an xorg.conf, and then just add any possible missing configurations to it.

Last edited by mhertz (2010-09-10 08:12:55)

stefanwilkens · 2010-09-10 07:42:56

where to find .xinitrc:

/etc/skel/.xinitrc

the beginner's guide mentions it here:
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Beginners'_Guide#Method_3:_using_.xinitrc

obviously it's urgent to rewrite the beginner's guide, I think I may give up my coffee break and have a look

You may also want to look at the login managers, I have no idea why the option is hidden so far in the back of the guide:
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Beg … g_a_daemon

that could use some rewriting as well.

Last edited by stefanwilkens (2010-09-10 07:45:26)

fsckd · 2010-09-10 09:06:13

From xinit manpage,

The xinit program is used to start the X Window System 
server and a first client  program on systems that are 
not using a display manager such as xdm(1) or in envi-
ronments that use  multiple window systems.  When this 
first client  exits, xinit will kill  the X server and 
then terminate.

If no specific client program is  given on the command 
line, xinit  will look  for a file in  the user's home 
directory called .xinitrc to  run as a shell script to 
start up client programs.

If you want to test, you can do something like startx xterm from a vc.

mythus · 2010-09-10 16:08:36

You cold always add exec xterm to your ~/.xinitrc file just to make sure it all works for you.

Don Coyote · 2010-09-10 17:58:13

I verified I have all the packages mentioned installed with pacman -Q. When I tried startx xterm, the screen flashes and then it looks like I'm getting the tail end of a standard error message.

I think I might know the issue though. When I was installing xorg originally, I was keeping an eye on the individual packages as they progressed. The screen went blank and I tapped an arrow key to restore it. The screen reflected some input code at the beginning of the next package line and that package looked like it failed to install properly. (I seem to remember something about "bit" in the name of it, maybe xbitmaps?) Being used to software that foolproofs itself against extraneous input and seeing sloppy scripts that fail routinely, I thought at the time it might be a meaningless coincidence, but now I'm suspecting Arch is much less tolerant of clodish activity (which seems like a design feature to me).

Would running pacman -S xorg again take care of this package if it is missing? Is there a better way to verify the integrity of that install? -Q doesn't seem to work with groups and -T is too ambiguous for my understanding.

Last edited by Don Coyote (2010-09-10 17:58:50)

mhertz · 2010-09-10 18:17:20

firstly, if you're worried about some package install, then check: /var/log/pacman.log

Second, then try as root to run just startx, which should test if X11 is working(there are no .xinitrc by default in root's home folder, but only in the newly created user if having installed xorg-xinit). If it works it should show you a twm session with a couple of xterm's open(when not having an .xinitrc in place, as the system-wide one is used).

To exit out of the twm session, then run pkill X in one of the xterm's.

The above only works if you have installed the whole xorg group(as it includes twm and xterm), and not if you just installed 'xorg-server xorg-xinit'.

Last edited by mhertz (2010-09-10 18:31:59)

Don Coyote · 2010-09-10 20:05:12

Ok, startx xterm just takes me in and out of a session in an instant, but just startx brought up twm. The log also recorded no failed packages. I think the lockup I was having was from not having the Intel driver installed then. I take it this means I can go ahead to the desktop installation.

Should I mark this as a solved problem, or leave it as more of an issue with the beginners guide being updated?

Vielen dank for all of the concise help. I've had a most impressive experience with Arch so far...

Inxsible · 2010-09-10 20:14:50

you can go ahead and mark this solved if your questions have been answered. There is another thread going around discussing the changes to the BG -- but that could take a while. Maybe a week or so before a consensus is reached as to what changes to make.

dobbs · 2010-09-10 21:07:31

My last 2 attempts to install Arch came to a halt at this same spot in the Beginner's Guide. I will try again when the Wiki is more updated. I do like Arch, I will try again in awhile... :-)

Arch Linux

#1 2010-09-10 06:19:51

[SOLVED]Beginners Guide X Installation Clarification

#2 2010-09-10 06:24:43

Re: [SOLVED]Beginners Guide X Installation Clarification

#3 2010-09-10 06:47:04

Re: [SOLVED]Beginners Guide X Installation Clarification

#4 2010-09-10 06:51:53

Re: [SOLVED]Beginners Guide X Installation Clarification

#5 2010-09-10 07:37:58

Re: [SOLVED]Beginners Guide X Installation Clarification

#6 2010-09-10 07:42:56

Re: [SOLVED]Beginners Guide X Installation Clarification

#7 2010-09-10 09:06:13

Re: [SOLVED]Beginners Guide X Installation Clarification

#8 2010-09-10 16:08:36

Re: [SOLVED]Beginners Guide X Installation Clarification

#9 2010-09-10 17:58:13

Re: [SOLVED]Beginners Guide X Installation Clarification

#10 2010-09-10 18:17:20

Re: [SOLVED]Beginners Guide X Installation Clarification

#11 2010-09-10 20:05:12

Re: [SOLVED]Beginners Guide X Installation Clarification

#12 2010-09-10 20:14:50

Re: [SOLVED]Beginners Guide X Installation Clarification

#13 2010-09-10 21:07:31

Re: [SOLVED]Beginners Guide X Installation Clarification

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