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#1 2010-09-18 15:58:21

wantilles
Member
From: Athens - Greece
Registered: 2007-03-29
Posts: 327

Cairo 1.10.x and cleartype

Unfortunately the cleartype patch found on AUR about cairo 1.8.x cannot be applied on new cairo 1.10.x.

And nothing comes even close to the quality and crispness of True/OpenType font rendering, of cleartype (I also always use Microsoft True/OpenType exclusively - yes I do own a copy of Windows 7 legitimately - because they are by far the best).

So, has anyone attempted to modify the patch so that it can be applied again?

Unfortunately my C/C++ knowledge is very basic for this.

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#2 2010-09-19 07:46:14

mechmg93
Member
From: Greece
Registered: 2007-05-23
Posts: 196

Re: Cairo 1.10.x and cleartype

I do use the cleartype patched packages from aur for a long time.  I have tested the majority of proposals from the archwiki thread :

http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Font_Configuration

and the cleartype method is by far the best.

As i see, the new and most common proposal is the infinality pathed freetype package but in my opinion this solution is not even compared to the cleartype one.

So, as wantilles says it would be nice to see a solution and finally keep having the cleartype packages.


Mikes on AUR

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#3 2010-09-19 09:11:44

brebs
Member
Registered: 2007-04-03
Posts: 3,406

Re: Cairo 1.10.x and cleartype

mechmg93 wrote:

infinality patched freetype package but in my opinion this solution is not even compared to the cleartype one

It's recently improved, and right now (the 20100916-1 patch), infinality looks extremely similar to cleartype. Whilst looking better.

So, I suggest you try it, and ask for the AUR package to be bumped to that version.

Last edited by brebs (2010-09-19 09:16:07)

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#4 2010-09-19 10:04:52

mechmg93
Member
From: Greece
Registered: 2007-05-23
Posts: 196

Re: Cairo 1.10.x and cleartype

http://www.infinality.net/blog/?p=67

as it seems there are 3 patches of our interest now. I hope these new patches have the desired result.

Here is an official font test page of infinality in which the results seem fine to me and much improved comparing to the patches i tried:

http://www.infinality.net/files/font.html


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#5 2010-09-19 10:27:07

mechmg93
Member
From: Greece
Registered: 2007-05-23
Posts: 196

Re: Cairo 1.10.x and cleartype

I created a freetype2-infinality package with the new patches and made some tests. I have taken 3 screenshots:


1. infinality patches without local.conf suggested from the creator of infinality

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/3876 … localc.png


2. infinality patches with local.conf suggested from the creator of infinality

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9205 … alconf.png


3. cleartype patches

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/9508/cleartype.png




In my opinion the result with cleartype is by far the best of the three above. I wish we will be able to use cleartype again in the near future.



p.s. I also tried libxft-lcd/cairo-lcd/fontconfig-lcd in combination with freetype2-infinality, as suggested by the creator of infinality without any improvement at all.



EDIT:

I installed vanilla packages from archlinux repository and also took a screenshot and the result is about(but not) the same with cleartype patches. It seems that they have done a great job.

4. vanilla packages

http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/1525 … acairo.png


EDIT 2:

I made another test with ubuntu patched packages :

5. ubuntu patched packages

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/680/ … ckages.png



p.s.2 both 4 and 5 are good, but for some reason both of them make amsn have ugly fonts.(i don't know why)

Last edited by mechmg93 (2010-09-20 08:06:32)


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#6 2010-09-20 13:04:35

TemplarGR
Member
From: Athens, Greece
Registered: 2009-12-16
Posts: 55

Re: Cairo 1.10.x and cleartype

I don't know for you, but i prefer the cairo-lcd packages. Never liked Cleartype, and can't see why they are "clearly superior" . Maybe to you, but not for all of us...

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#7 2010-09-20 15:27:22

mechmg93
Member
From: Greece
Registered: 2007-05-23
Posts: 196

Re: Cairo 1.10.x and cleartype

TemplarGR wrote:

I don't know for you, but i prefer the cairo-lcd packages. Never liked Cleartype, and can't see why they are "clearly superior" . Maybe to you, but not for all of us...

that's why, if you read carefully, in my above post "i wrote in my opinion...".


Let's go back on topic now. Our subject is to either find a way of applying the cleartype patch or find an alternative with the same results.

http://cgit.freedesktop.org/cairo/commi … fadcc05e82

in AUR, octoploid suggested that with vanilla packages and the option :

<match target="font">
<edit mode="assign" name="lcdfilter">
<const>lcddefault</const>
</edit>
</match>
in my .fonts.con

the result is the same as with cleartype patch, (see http://bit.ly/bQzMQi for details).


So i tested installing vanilla packages with that option and indeed the result is fine.

I only keep having one problem with amsn, which refuses to have the same fonts with the system. Amsn only wants cleartype patches in order to follow the font style of the system.


EDIT

1. screenshot with amsn and chromium with cleartype packages

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/4282 … artype.png


2. screenshot with amsn and chromium with vanilla packages

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/4958 … option.png


I cannot see much of a difference in chromium with the two different methods, but it's clear that something wrong is happening in amsn when cleartype is not used.

Last edited by mechmg93 (2010-09-20 15:46:13)


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#8 2010-09-20 18:34:54

wantilles
Member
From: Athens - Greece
Registered: 2007-03-29
Posts: 327

Re: Cairo 1.10.x and cleartype

mechmg93 wrote:

in AUR, octoploid suggested that with vanilla packages and the option :

<match target="font">
<edit mode="assign" name="lcdfilter">
<const>lcddefault</const>
</edit>
</match>
in my .fonts.con

In which conf file do you put these options?

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#9 2010-09-20 20:05:05

bernarcher
Forum Fellow
From: Germany
Registered: 2009-02-17
Posts: 2,271

Re: Cairo 1.10.x and cleartype

It all depends on what you are after. Cleartype tries to align the stems on pixel boundaries, making for a crisper display. However the overall geometry of the fonts is lost this way.

Example: If you look at the word "cairo" in the samples in #5 you will find the letters evenly laid out in the #2 sample whereas in the #3 cleartype sample the individual letters appear far more crisp, yet there is more space between the "c" and the "a" as there should be, making the word looking somewhat ugly to the skilled eye. And this is a quickly selected example only.

To me cleartype all in all tends to produce an ugly overall appearance. So I prefer the compromise cairo-lcd provides.

This is the btw an old MS vs. Apple game making the Apple approach far better suitable to typesetting than Microsoft.


To know or not to know ...
... the questions remain forever.

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#10 2010-09-20 21:36:00

mechmg93
Member
From: Greece
Registered: 2007-05-23
Posts: 196

Re: Cairo 1.10.x and cleartype

wantilles wrote:
mechmg93 wrote:

in AUR, octoploid suggested that with vanilla packages and the option :

<match target="font">
<edit mode="assign" name="lcdfilter">
<const>lcddefault</const>
</edit>
</match>
in my .fonts.con

In which conf file do you put these options?

in my ~/.fonts.conf file which is the following:



<?xml version='1.0'?>
<!DOCTYPE fontconfig SYSTEM 'fonts.dtd'>
<fontconfig>
<match target="font">
  <edit mode="assign" name="rgba">
   <const>none</const>
  </edit>
</match>
<match target="font">
  <edit mode="assign" name="hinting">
   <bool>true</bool>
  </edit>
</match>
<match target="font">
  <edit mode="assign" name="hintstyle">
   <const>hintmedium</const>
  </edit>
</match>
<!--<match target="font">
   <edit mode="assign" name="lcdfilter">
     <const>lcddefault</const>
   </edit>
</match>-->
<!--<match target="font">
    <edit name="autohint" mode="assign">
      <bool>true</bool>
    </edit>
</match>-->
<match target="font">
  <edit mode="assign" name="antialias">
   <bool>true</bool>
  </edit>
</match>
<dir>~/.fonts</dir>
</fontconfig>

in the abobe example, it is disabled


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#11 2010-09-20 23:18:18

wantilles
Member
From: Athens - Greece
Registered: 2007-03-29
Posts: 327

Re: Cairo 1.10.x and cleartype

mechmg93 wrote:

in AUR, octoploid suggested that with vanilla packages and the option :

<match target="font">
<edit mode="assign" name="lcdfilter">
<const>lcddefault</const>
</edit>
</match>
in my .fonts.con

the result is the same as with cleartype patch, (see http://bit.ly/bQzMQi for details).

So i tested installing vanilla packages with that option and indeed the result is fine.

Preliminary testing on my part (and comparing lossless screen capture PNGs of firefox's 4.0b6 about: box (with Trebuchet MS 14 as selected font)) shows indeed no visible difference between this and the cairo 1.8.x cleartype.

However:

mechmg93 wrote:
wantilles wrote:
mechmg93 wrote:

in AUR, octoploid suggested that with vanilla packages and the option :

<match target="font">
<edit mode="assign" name="lcdfilter">
<const>lcddefault</const>
</edit>
</match>
in my .fonts.con

In which conf file do you put these options?

in my ~/.fonts.conf file

Is it possible to enforce the above options for all users, systemwide, and how?

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#12 2010-09-21 00:03:42

machoo02
Member
Registered: 2009-02-22
Posts: 35

Re: Cairo 1.10.x and cleartype

wantilles wrote:

Is it possible to enforce the above options for all users, systemwide, and how?

Put those same options in /etc/fonts/local.conf

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#13 2010-09-21 06:47:58

mechmg93
Member
From: Greece
Registered: 2007-05-23
Posts: 196

Re: Cairo 1.10.x and cleartype

Since i am not planning to change amsn in the near future, i am trying to find what's wrong with amsn and it doesn follow systems fonts. Any idea?


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#14 2010-09-30 16:21:46

litemotiv
Forum Fellow
Registered: 2008-08-01
Posts: 5,026

Re: Cairo 1.10.x and cleartype

mechmg93 wrote:

2. infinality patches with local.conf suggested from the creator of infinality

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9205 … alconf.png

Which packages do you use here? Regular cairo, libxft, fontconfig and freetype2-infinality?

The result is quite different on my system, i wonder why..


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#15 2010-09-30 16:57:40

brebs
Member
Registered: 2007-04-03
Posts: 3,406

Re: Cairo 1.10.x and cleartype

litemotiv wrote:

Regular cairo, libxft, fontconfig and freetype2-infinality

You should not be using *regular* - you need patches.

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#16 2010-09-30 17:14:52

litemotiv
Forum Fellow
Registered: 2008-08-01
Posts: 5,026

Re: Cairo 1.10.x and cleartype

brebs wrote:
litemotiv wrote:

Regular cairo, libxft, fontconfig and freetype2-infinality

You should not be using *regular* - you need patches.

Ah right, so basically the Ubuntu packages with the patched freetype. Thanks for clearing that up.

post-install edit: this is awesome, like i'm looking at an e-reader instead of a tft screen. kudos to infinality. smile

Last edited by litemotiv (2010-09-30 18:04:21)


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#17 2010-10-21 13:30:25

schwudde
Member
Registered: 2009-01-29
Posts: 4

Re: Cairo 1.10.x and cleartype

I created a new cleartype-package with cleartype-patch from gentto and xcb enabled (i use the awesome wm). With the patch from gentoo Fonts looking as nice as with cairo-cleartype 1.8.10.

http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=331743
http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=42059


Sven

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#18 2010-10-21 19:36:50

broch
Banned
From: L.A. California
Registered: 2006-11-13
Posts: 975

Re: Cairo 1.10.x and cleartype

schwudde wrote:

I created a new cleartype-package with cleartype-patch from gentto and xcb enabled (i use the awesome wm). With the patch from gentoo Fonts looking as nice as with cairo-cleartype 1.8.10.

http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=331743
http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=42059

thank you for bringing back cleartype, without doubt the best  of the bunch. Works great.

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#19 2010-10-21 19:58:44

gaelic
Member
Registered: 2010-08-01
Posts: 64

Re: Cairo 1.10.x and cleartype

Hello.

I've read something now about cleartype, etc.

For me on all of the screenshots cleartype ist the best of all choices.

Some questions remain:

I'm using kde4 at the moment which also supports subpixel rendering, and at least in all kde programs it works really nice (equal to cleartype if not better);
Chomium seems not to be supported by this type of subpixel rendering, which leads me to cairo:

I'm wonder which programs are supported by cairo (all gtk, more?)?

Thanks...

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#20 2010-10-22 06:17:12

brebs
Member
Registered: 2007-04-03
Posts: 3,406

Re: Cairo 1.10.x and cleartype

gaelic wrote:

which programs are supported by cairo

Well, font rendering should be done by freetype, following the fontconfig tweaking rules.

cairo is too far up the chain, and is the wrong app/library to be performing font rendering.

I suggest you look at the Infinality screenshots (see his blog).

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#21 2010-10-24 01:14:55

tinhtruong
Member
From: Việt Nam
Registered: 2008-12-18
Posts: 109

Re: Cairo 1.10.x and cleartype

schwudde wrote:

I created a new cleartype-package with cleartype-patch from gentto and xcb enabled (i use the awesome wm). With the patch from gentoo Fonts looking as nice as with cairo-cleartype 1.8.10.

http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=331743
http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=42059

Using it and loving it.

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