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#1 2003-08-25 02:46:30

jlowell
Member
Registered: 2003-08-10
Posts: 270

Installing An Older Package

I cannot stand the way Mozilla 1.4 renders fonts on the tool bars and in the menus. I know, I know they're configurable by editing userChromer.css but have you ever tried making sense out of their syntax; I can't, I'm just a human being. smile

Anyway, I've been perfectly happy with Mozilla 1.3.1 and because of those infinitessimal toolbar fonts in 1.4 don't want to change. I see that we have a PKGBUILD at CVS for 1.3.1. I can't make sense of how to access it. I'd dearly like to have 1.3.1 on this machine. What do I have to do?

jlowell

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#2 2003-08-25 03:33:20

dp
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From: Zürich, Switzerland
Registered: 2003-05-27
Posts: 3,366
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Re: Installing An Older Package

if you dont have the mozilla 1.3 package, you must build it yourself:

1-> abs

2-> cd /usr/abs/network/mozilla/

3-> change in PKGBUILD :
pkgver=1.4
pkgver=1.3.1

4-> makepkg

5-> pacman -A mozilla-1.3.1-1.pkg.tar.gz

6-> to prevent pacman to upgrade it to 1.4.x next time you run pacman -Suy, you can add to /etc/pacman.conf
IgnorePkg = mozilla


The impossible missions are the only ones which succeed.

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#3 2003-08-25 03:42:36

jlowell
Member
Registered: 2003-08-10
Posts: 270

Re: Installing An Older Package

Hi dp,

Thank you for your reply.

You know, I just tried the approach you suggest, changing the version name in the existing abs PKGBUILD and the new package wouldn't build that way.

I can see that CVS has the old build but I don't know how to get at it. Ideas?

jlowell

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#4 2003-08-25 04:51:37

almostlucky
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From: California, USA
Registered: 2002-09-30
Posts: 16

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#5 2003-08-25 06:23:46

sarah31
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From: Middle of Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 2,975
Website

Re: Installing An Older Package

heard alot of "griping" (i use the term not as an offense just i am not a font person. for exapmle i never have changed the fonts on anything in arch from the installed/default fonts.) of the latest mozilla fonts. i was under the impression that the ttf font package cleared up alot of the font "ugliness" in the current moz. (note i am completely unsure of this but i heard it around irc)


AKA uknowme

I am not your friend

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#6 2003-08-25 12:29:12

Toth
Member
Registered: 2002-12-04
Posts: 82

Re: Installing An Older Package

jlowell wrote:

I cannot stand the way Mozilla 1.4 renders fonts on the tool bars and in the menus. I know, I know they're configurable by editing userChromer.css but have you ever tried making sense out of their syntax; I can't, I'm just a human being. smile

Anyway, I've been perfectly happy with Mozilla 1.3.1 and because of those infinitessimal toolbar fonts in 1.4 don't want to change. I see that we have a PKGBUILD at CVS for 1.3.1. I can't make sense of how to access it. I'd dearly like to have 1.3.1 on this machine. What do I have to do?

jlowell

I am going to assume that you are not using GNOME or KDE. In GNOME and KDE the fonts should appear fine because both environments will set the Xft dpi setting. The latest mozilla build uses Xft to render all fonts, which should make them look better. The only problem is that if you don't use a DE, the fonts may appear small because your DPI setting for Xft is too low. Try adding something like the following to the beginning of your ~/.xinitrc file (or however you go about launching your WM):

xrdb -merge - << EOF
Xft.dpi: 96
Xft.hinting: 1
Xft.hintstyle: hintmedium
EOF

That was ripped out of XFce4's xinitrc script, and should make all Xft fonts appear at their correct sizes for you if you don't run GNOME or KDE. (I am positive GNOME sets this...KDE may not but I'm pretty sure they do).

-Toth

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#7 2003-08-25 16:47:40

jlowell
Member
Registered: 2003-08-10
Posts: 270

Re: Installing An Older Package

Toth,

I am going to assume that you are not using GNOME or KDE. In GNOME and KDE the fonts should appear fine because both environments will set the Xft dpi setting. The latest mozilla build uses Xft to render all fonts, which should make them look better. The only problem is that if you don't use a DE, the fonts may appear small because your DPI setting for Xft is too low.

You are right on the money, Toth, no DE. I try to keep out the unessentials, running only a WM, a terminal, a system monitor and, when I need it, a browser with a mail program. I don't even use IRC, can't type fast enough.  smile

Try adding something like the following to the beginning of your ~/.xinitrc file (or however you go about launching your WM):

Code:
xrdb -merge - << EOF
Xft.dpi: 96
Xft.hinting: 1
Xft.hintstyle: hintmedium
EOF

That was ripped out of XFce4's xinitrc script, and should make all Xft fonts appear at their correct sizes for you if you don't run GNOME or KDE.

This is the very first time that I've had an answer to this question that makes sense intuitively! I've presented this question on at least six different mailing lists or forums since 1.4 was released and the best answer I've gotten was to edit userChome.css, a solution which, I suspect, may not work in every case.

And, yes, I use ~/.xinitrc to start fluxbox. I assume from the above example that "hinting" and "hint" are simply place holders? Explain, please "xrdb -merge - << EOF".

I'll look forward to hearing from you.

jlowell

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#8 2003-08-25 16:58:14

jlowell
Member
Registered: 2003-08-10
Posts: 270

Re: Installing An Older Package

almostlucky,

Thanks for the url, I couldn't get into CVS last night, not sure what was wrong. I'd never tried to access it before so the fault is likely mine.

I'm going to try Toth's solution to the 1.4 font problem before using the 1.3.1 script to build a 1.3.1 package. If it works, I'll go with 1.4.

jlowell

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#9 2003-08-25 16:59:16

jlowell
Member
Registered: 2003-08-10
Posts: 270

Re: Installing An Older Package

Sarah,

Thanks for the idea.

jlowell

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#10 2003-08-25 17:47:23

Toth
Member
Registered: 2002-12-04
Posts: 82

Re: Installing An Older Package

jlowell wrote:

This is the very first time that I've had an answer to this question that makes sense intuitively! I've presented this question on at least six different mailing lists or forums since 1.4 was released and the best answer I've gotten was to edit userChome.css, a solution which, I suspect, may not work in every case.

And, yes, I use ~/.xinitrc to start fluxbox. I assume from the above example that "hinting" and "hint" are simply place holders? Explain, please "xrdb -merge - << EOF".

I'll look forward to hearing from you.

jlowell

xrdb -merge is used to merge settings in to the X Resource DataBase (XRDB). Xft will check the resource database to check what settings (including dpi) to use.  Hinting and Hintstyle are not placeholders, they are actual settings. Xft.hinting: 1 tells Xft to use hinting (a technique used when Anti-Alias fonts to make them look better) and Xft.hinting: hintmedium tells it what hinting setting to use. Offhand I don't know all the settings, but hintmedium and I believe hintslight are two of them.

The - << EOF is just an easy way or setting all three settings simultaneously rather than using three separate calls to xrdb -merge.

Like you I used to use a lightweight window manager (Openbox, actually) and fonts in Mozilla were always too small. I was surprised when I loaded up Gnome (just to give it a try at the time) and saw that the fonts were the size they should have been. I had no idea how to fix it (and neither did anybody at any of the forums I asked at). I then later tried XFce4 (a well done and beautiful DE, btw) and noticed that Mozilla was fine under XFce4 as well. I poked around trying to figure out why, and found the xrdb statement in XFce4's start script. I added it to my ~/.xinitrc from which I started Openbox and discovered that was the solution.

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#11 2003-08-26 02:11:23

_JeffG_
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Registered: 2003-08-04
Posts: 61
Website

Re: Installing An Older Package

Well, I run KDE here... and it did not adjust the DPI setting.  So, I worked around it by inserting:

gtk-font-name = "Bitstream Vera Sans 12"

into my .gtkrc-2.0 and that set the fonts in Mozilla to the correct size I wanted.  The fonts in the rendered webpage were fine.  Just the menus and tool bars and what not...

Jeff

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#12 2003-08-26 02:40:22

jlowell
Member
Registered: 2003-08-10
Posts: 270

Re: Installing An Older Package

Toth,

Well, as luck would have it, editing ~/.xinitrc didn't work out as we'd expected: No change in the Mozilla 1.4's toolbar font sizes. Why such a difference between 1.3.1 and 1.4, I can't imagine. I guess my only remaining alternative before downgrading to 1.3.1 will be editing userChome.css after all. What a pain in the you-know-what. This is an improvement? Oy.

Well, enough kvetching; I have a choice to make.

jlowell

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#13 2003-08-26 02:44:15

Toth
Member
Registered: 2002-12-04
Posts: 82

Re: Installing An Older Package

jlowell wrote:

Toth,

Well, as luck would have it, editing ~/.xinitrc didn't work out as we'd expected: No change in the Mozilla 1.4's toolbar font sizes. Why such a difference between 1.3.1 and 1.4, I can't imagine. I guess my only remaining alternative before downgrading to 1.3.1 will be editing userChome.css after all. What a pain in the you-know-what. This is an improvement? Oy.

Well, enough kvetching; I have a choice to make.

jlowell

Have you also used gtk-theme-switch2 to set the font for GTK2 apps? Or tried what JeffG mentioned? If so then I have no clue hmm

-Toth

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#14 2003-08-26 04:00:20

jlowell
Member
Registered: 2003-08-10
Posts: 270

Re: Installing An Older Package

Toth,

Have you also used gtk-theme-switch2 to set the font for GTK2 apps? Or tried what JeffG mentioned? If so then I have no clue hmm

I'm afraid I've become so focused on editing userChrome.css that the import of JeffG's comment just sailed over my head. In any case, I'm not sure of what I need to do to impliment JeffG's idea. What does he mean by saying:

So, I worked around it by inserting:

gtk-font-name = "Bitstream Vera Sans 12"

into my .gtkrc-2.0 and that set the fonts in Mozilla to the correct size I wanted

Is he referring to an editable ~/.gtkrc-2.0, if so I have no such file. Can you help me with this?

jlowell

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#15 2003-08-26 10:29:02

Mork II
Member
From: Visby, Sweden
Registered: 2003-05-14
Posts: 87

Re: Installing An Older Package

You can create a .gtkrc-2.0 in your home dir and add that line.

//Edit: Spelinng//

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#16 2003-08-26 10:29:44

Toth
Member
Registered: 2002-12-04
Posts: 82

Re: Installing An Older Package

jlowell wrote:

Toth,

Is he referring to an editable ~/.gtkrc-2.0, if so I have no such file. Can you help me with this?

jlowell

$ echo gtk-font-name = "Bitstream Vera Sans 12" > ~/.gtkrc-2.0

Just replace Bitstream Vera Sans 12 with whatever font you'd like to use.

~/.gtkrc-2.0 is the file where your GTK+2 theme is stored. If you want a graphical way of setting your GTK2 theme (and font), use pacman to grab gtk-theme-switch2 from unofficial and run switch2. That will allow you to pick a GTK2 theme from a list of installed themes, and there's an icon on the right hand side of the window -- if you click it, you can select a font for your GTK2 programs.

Hope that helps.

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#17 2003-08-26 12:46:19

Toth
Member
Registered: 2002-12-04
Posts: 82

Re: Installing An Older Package

I just ran a quick test to try this using TWM. Here are the results:

Without the xrdb Xft setting: image 1
With the xrdb Xft setting: image 2

As you can see, it fixes the problem for me (I'm assuming this is the same problem you're having). Are you sure that the syntax is right? Maybe try a different DPI setting?

Also, you'll note that there is no ~/.gtkrc-2.0 file there, I created a new user to try this and didn't create one for the account. Neither are there any gnome directories, gnome-settings-daemon is not running, etc.

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#18 2003-08-26 17:19:55

jlowell
Member
Registered: 2003-08-10
Posts: 270

Re: Installing An Older Package

Toth,

It sure looks like the same problem, Toth. Thanks for all your work on this question.

Regarding the DPI question, I used 96 as you'd indicated but was not able to see any difference at all with it. Maybe 96 was the one being used. What other DPI alternatives would normally be available?

jlowell

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#19 2003-08-26 17:44:06

jlowell
Member
Registered: 2003-08-10
Posts: 270

Re: Installing An Older Package

Toth,

Don't trouble, I just tried ~/.xinitrc it with 100 dpi and there's no improvement.

Maybe the gtk solution will work, I have as yet to try it. You definitely understand the problem I'm having, though. Those screenshots illustrate it perfectly.

I'll get back to you about gtk.

jlowell

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#20 2003-08-26 18:01:54

Toth
Member
Registered: 2002-12-04
Posts: 82

Re: Installing An Older Package

jlowell wrote:

Toth,

Don't trouble, I just tried ~/.xinitrc it with 100 dpi and there's no improvement.

Maybe the gtk solution will work, I have as yet to try it. You definitely understand the problem I'm having, though. Those screenshots illustrate it perfectly.

I'll get back to you about gtk.

jlowell

Well you may want to try something more extreme. Try setting it to 72 or 60 and see if it gets smaller. If you notice a difference, try using a DPI of 108. Then 120, etc. I am keeping it a multiple of 12 because Mozilla is buggy in that it will not work properly with DPIs that are not multiples of 12. Technically you are setting Xft's DPI, not Mozilla's so that should be irrelevant, but just in case wink

Also, remember that DPI is just the number of dots in one inch. 96 is perfect for my 14.1 inch LCD operating at 1400x1050. The best DPI will be different for other monitors and resolutions.

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#21 2003-08-26 19:20:31

jlowell
Member
Registered: 2003-08-10
Posts: 270

Re: Installing An Older Package

Toth,

Well it finally kicked in! Apparently it took more than one try starting X with the new dpi figure to get it to take, but it certaintly is working now! I've moved the number around a bit to see what's going on. Clearly 60 was the original setting.

As you've already mentioned, the dpi change we're implementing here is general in nature, it effects everything not just Mozilla. My only problem had been with Mozilla 1.4, though. If I up the dpi to 72 other things now look too big!  sad 

So let me simply express my sincere gratitude to you for having taken so much time and effort to help me with this problem. It looks as though I'll have to edit userChrome.css after all to get things the way I want them, that or its back to 1.3.1. I've learned a lot from you and by coming to this forum about a number of questions I've had, however. Not a moment of your time has been wasted, believe me.

jlowell

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#22 2003-08-26 20:26:22

Toth
Member
Registered: 2002-12-04
Posts: 82

Re: Installing An Older Package

Heh, not a problem, I'm glad it worked. I would suggest changing the actual font size in the other programs that end up looking too big before you go through the trouble of editing that file or using an old version of Mozilla. Either way, I hope everything works out for you.

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#23 2003-09-05 21:39:47

marin_linuxer
Member
From: San Rafael, CA U.S.A.
Registered: 2003-09-03
Posts: 111
Website

Re: Installing An Older Package

Hey fella's just wanted to add another couple-o-variables that I haven't seen in this thread so far.  The following settings, in RED have made a BIG difference for me in many distro's(read 'man' pages for specifics and adjust to your hardware):

1.  '/etc/X11/XF86Config'

Section "Monitor"
        Identifier   "Monitor0"
        VendorName   "Monitor Vendor"
        ModelName    "Monitor Model"
        DisplaySize     304 229  # Horiz  Vert in mm of monitor's actual screen display area
        HorizSync       31.5-48.5
        Option          "dpms"
EndSection


2.  In Mozilla's 'Prefernces|Appearance|Fonts' section, drop-down the 'Display Resolution' box and click 'Other...'.  Get out your favorite CM or MM ruler and make the calculation.  Works wonders for my 'ToolBar' and 'Menu' fonts.  No need to 'xrdb -merge' and I use IceWM.

Cheers.


-- Linux!  Isn't it time?

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#24 2003-09-06 00:07:43

jlowell
Member
Registered: 2003-08-10
Posts: 270

Re: Installing An Older Package

marin_linuxer,

Would you kindly expand on a couple of things here:

1. Respecting Mozilla's Preference -> Appearance -> Fonts and the selection of "Other" in the Display Resolution Area, precisely how and  what are you measuring with your ruler?

2. Explain xrdb -merge kindly.

I looked at the possibilities of making an adjustment of display resolution but never knew where I was starting from because "system settings" was selected. Have had to edit userChrome.css to deal with menu items and toolbars. I'd appreciate your going into some more detail.

jlowell

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#25 2003-09-06 00:56:42

marin_linuxer
Member
From: San Rafael, CA U.S.A.
Registered: 2003-09-03
Posts: 111
Website

Re: Installing An Older Package

jlowell wrote:

marin_linuxer,

Would you kindly expand on a couple of things here:

1. Respecting Mozilla's Preference -> Appearance -> Fonts and the selection of "Other" in the Display Resolution Area, precisely how and  what are you measuring with your ruler?

2. Explain xrdb -merge kindly.

I looked at the possibilities of making an adjustment of display resolution but never knew where I was starting from because "system settings" was selected. Have had to edit userChrome.css to deal with menu items and toolbars. I'd appreciate your going into some more detail.

jlowell


1. Moz draws a line in a dialog box right in the middle of your screen ('bout 3" or so horizontal)  measuring that tells moz your exact Horiz dpi so it can draw the menu bars and such regardless of your X or Windoze screen settings.  To get your 'starting' dpi, which moz refers to as 'System Setting', do the following:

# xdpyinfo |grep 'resolution'

2.  I'm afraid I don't know much 'bout the xrdb thingy, I've never used it.  The solutions I mentioned always did the trick.  The 'DisplaySize' variable in the XF86Config lets the X server know the dimensions of your monitor's 'viewable' area in order to compensate for whatever resolution you choose(i.e. 1024x768; 800x600; etc.).  When I say 'viewable' area, I mean: 

1.  Turn monitor brightness to MAX

2.  Measure, in mm the 'exact' viewable dimensions of the actual 'glowing' part of your monitor, _NOT_ necessarily the edge-edge of the glass or plastic frame.

3.  If using LCD monitor, you can also get these specs from your owner's manual since LCD's are fixed and constant(unless you've done someth'n really weird to your settings(!) -- just hit the 'AUTO' adjust button in that case--IMHO).  Then measure the exact H & V of the visible pixel map, again, in mm using your ruler.

Hope that helps and just so you know, by doing these things you are adjusting the core of the display system instead of of making compensations later in the cycle.  Now XFT/Freetype/Fontconfig are another beast altogether and whomever said it earlier about needing the XRDB thingy may be correct for those issues(RGBA/hinting/etc.).  I've been fine with their defaults after making my corrections initially.  IceWM has XFT support and it looks great without the XRDB stuff, so ....... YMMV!!

Cheers.


-- Linux!  Isn't it time?

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