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#1 2011-07-14 04:41:48

sinatosk
Member
Registered: 2010-11-28
Posts: 107

my main computer looses communication to WAN but LAN still works

This problem has been going on now for about 2 months and I'm still having trouble tracking down the problem

every 12 to 24 hours... my internet just stops working... anything related outside my LAN like ping google.com or one of their IP address's for example just don't work...

I can still connect to the internet with my other devices ( computers, smart phones )

- I've done numerous updates thinking it was a bug in a package
- I've set the DNS address statically thinking it might be loosing my DNS address
- Checked to make sure I configured it all correctly... based on what is said on the wiki
- I've looked in the kernel / system logs ( system, kernel, auth, daemon, xorg and dmesg ) for errors

I use NetworkManager although if I remember right... this happened without NetworkManager aswell ( just using what came with Archlinux before adding NetworkManager )

any suggestons/ideas?

thanks

Last edited by sinatosk (2011-07-18 09:53:17)

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#2 2011-07-14 05:11:43

ewaller
Administrator
From: Pasadena, CA
Registered: 2009-07-13
Posts: 19,739

Re: my main computer looses communication to WAN but LAN still works

Are your WLAN and Wired LAN both going through the same router?

When things go South, can you still ping devices on your LAN through the wireless connection (Like the router)?

If your Wireless and Wired connections both go through the same router, are they both up at the same time?

Is your router configured to not route devices to the gateway that have not been assigned an IP address by the router?  In other words, If a device just appears on the network, some routers allow them to communicate on the LAN, but will refuse to route them to the Internet.  This is possible if you use a static address without reserving it in the router, or, perhaps if a dynamic address ages out, but your system continues to try to use it.

You might check the router's logs.


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#3 2011-07-14 05:45:27

sinatosk
Member
Registered: 2010-11-28
Posts: 107

Re: my main computer looses communication to WAN but LAN still works

When things go South, can you still ping devices on your LAN through the wireless connection (Like the router)?

Not tried that... will do next time it happens

If your Wireless and Wired connections both go through the same router, are they both up at the same time?

you mean that both devices are up when connected to the router and things go South? yes

Is your router configured to not route devices to the gateway that have not been assigned an IP address by the router?  In other words, If a device just appears on the network, some routers allow them to communicate on the LAN, but will refuse to route them to the Internet.  This is possible if you use a static address without reserving it in the router, or, perhaps if a dynamic address ages out, but your system continues to try to use it.

I have a Netgear WNR-3500L.

I use static IP address's... there's only 5 devices... and all of them use a static IP... and a cable modem all in the same router

- static IP address's are reserved in the router ( 13 of them )
- router is acting as my DHCP server ( it's the only DHCP server )
- DHCP dynamically assigns in range of 10.0.0.14 to 10.0.0.254
- I've never used any devices outside of the 10.0.0.x range on this router

You might check the router's logs.

and nothing ( error or warning related ) in my router logs

thanks

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#4 2011-07-14 05:59:48

ewaller
Administrator
From: Pasadena, CA
Registered: 2009-07-13
Posts: 19,739

Re: my main computer looses communication to WAN but LAN still works

Okay, I went back and re-read our posts, and there is something on which I need clarification.  Does your computer with the Wireless that is causing problems also have a wired internet? If so, are you trying to run both interfaces, belonging to the same computer, to the same router (and therefore on the same subnet)?

Are you using a static address or a dynamic address on the WLAN interface that is causing trouble?
When things work, what it the output of ip route  ?? How does that compare to the output of ip route after your problems start ?
If the ip command does not work on your system, use the output of route instead.


Nothing is too wonderful to be true, if it be consistent with the laws of nature -- Michael Faraday
Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the things no one can imagine. -- Alan Turing
---
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#5 2011-07-14 06:05:25

sinatosk
Member
Registered: 2010-11-28
Posts: 107

Re: my main computer looses communication to WAN but LAN still works

Okay, I went back and re-read our posts, and there is something on which I need clarification.  Does your computer with the Wireless that is causing problems also have a wired internet? If so, are you trying to run both interfaces, belonging to the same computer, to the same router (and therefore on the same subnet)?

My computer is wired only, my smartphone ( Samsung Nexus S - Android 2.3.4 stock ROM ) is wireless

Are you using a static address or a dynamic address on the WLAN interface that is causing trouble?

The router is set to dynamic when it picks up the WNA... my WAN still works with other devices... it's just my computer that no longer can communicate to WAN

When things work, what it the output of ip route  ?? How does that compare to the output of ip route after your problems start ?
If the ip command does not work on your system, use the output of route instead.

Sorry. I don't understand what or how to do what your saying here...

thanks

Last edited by sinatosk (2011-07-14 06:20:38)

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#6 2011-07-14 06:18:05

ewaller
Administrator
From: Pasadena, CA
Registered: 2009-07-13
Posts: 19,739

Re: my main computer looses communication to WAN but LAN still works

Okay, I think I have the picture.

I think your computer is loosing track of where its gateway to the Internet is.  There is some confusion over our terminology -- WLAN is Wireless Local Area Network.  WAN is Wide Area Network.  I now realize that we are not debugging a wireless problem (in fact, all your wireless stuff seems to work smile )

I take it your router gets its IP address from a DHCP server at your ISP.
Your router is generating IP addresses in the private  network address space 10.0.0.x.  Is your computer (the wired one that is causing trouble) getting its IP address using DHCP, or is it a static address.

When you can reach the Internet, please execute the command ip route and see what it says about default gateways (or just post the output here).
Later, after it stops working, run the same command again and see if the default gateway is missing.


Nothing is too wonderful to be true, if it be consistent with the laws of nature -- Michael Faraday
Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the things no one can imagine. -- Alan Turing
---
How to Ask Questions the Smart Way

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#7 2011-07-14 06:19:31

sinatosk
Member
Registered: 2010-11-28
Posts: 107

Re: my main computer looses communication to WAN but LAN still works

yeah sorry I meant WAN not WLAN...  I'll update my post

Last edited by sinatosk (2011-07-14 06:19:44)

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#8 2011-07-14 12:43:29

sinatosk
Member
Registered: 2010-11-28
Posts: 107

Re: my main computer looses communication to WAN but LAN still works

Sorry I didn't respond earlier... had to rush of to work. Finished now tongue

I take it your router gets its IP address from a DHCP server at your ISP.

Yes

Your router is generating IP addresses in the private  network address space 10.0.0.x.  Is your computer (the wired one that is causing trouble) getting its IP address using DHCP, or is it a static address.

Static ( reserved on the router )

When you can reach the Internet, please execute the command ip route and see what it says about default gateways (or just post the output here).
Later, after it stops working, run the same command again and see if the default gateway is missing.

I'll wait for the issue to happen again and do that ip route command.

Last edited by sinatosk (2011-07-14 12:47:20)

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#9 2011-07-15 05:23:43

sinatosk
Member
Registered: 2010-11-28
Posts: 107

Re: my main computer looses communication to WAN but LAN still works

This is the output after my WAN access has dropped. Looks like gateway information has gone... don't know why

10.0.0.0/24 dev eth0  proto kernel  scope link  src 10.0.0.2  metric 202

and this is the output with my WAN working. I've hidden some info due to my VPN ( this issue still happens with or without VPN )

0.0.0.0/1 via *.*.*.* dev tun0
default via 10.0.0.1 dev eth0  proto static
10.0.0.0/24 dev eth0  proto kernel  scope link  src 10.0.0.2  metric 1
*.*.*.* via 10.0.0.1 dev eth0
*.*.*.*/* dev tun0  proto kernel  scope link  src *.*.*.*
*.*.*.*/* via *.*.*.* dev tun0

Thanks

Last edited by sinatosk (2011-07-15 05:24:16)

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#10 2011-07-16 03:50:24

ewaller
Administrator
From: Pasadena, CA
Registered: 2009-07-13
Posts: 19,739

Re: my main computer looses communication to WAN but LAN still works

Sorry I have been away.  My daughters talked me into taking them to the new Harry Potter movie at midnight last night and my diurnal rhythm has been scrambled all day.

I am wondering if some "invisible hand" is  executing DHCP for you . 
Could you post your /etc/init.conf file ? 
Also, after things fail (and perhaps before they do) can you check to see if dhcp or dhclient are running? 
What are you using to control NetworkManager? Can you check to see what method it is using for wired connections.  Also, see if it is set to ignore routes that are obtained automatically.


Nothing is too wonderful to be true, if it be consistent with the laws of nature -- Michael Faraday
Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the things no one can imagine. -- Alan Turing
---
How to Ask Questions the Smart Way

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#11 2011-07-16 09:06:32

.:B:.
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Registered: 2006-11-26
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Re: my main computer looses communication to WAN but LAN still works

It would be great if you could get a shell on your router. When I have problems like yours, usually the first thing I do is ping my router, if that works I log in there and see if it still has a WAN IP. Sounds there is a problem with the WAN IP renewal...

Have you checked your router's logs? I think the WNR3500L runs some flavour of Linux as well (might even be OpenWrt-based).

Last edited by .:B:. (2011-07-16 09:06:50)


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#12 2011-07-16 11:10:41

sinatosk
Member
Registered: 2010-11-28
Posts: 107

Re: my main computer looses communication to WAN but LAN still works

Sorry I have been away.  My daughters talked me into taking them to the new Harry Potter movie at midnight last night and my diurnal rhythm has been scrambled all day.

No problem. Was busy myself tongue

I am wondering if some "invisible hand" is  executing DHCP for you . 
Could you post your /etc/init.conf file ?

I don't have that file at that location.

edit: maybe you meant "/etc/rc.conf" ?

#
# /etc/rc.conf - Main Configuration for Arch Linux
#

# -----------------------------------------------------------------------
# LOCALIZATION
# -----------------------------------------------------------------------
#
# LOCALE: available languages can be listed with the 'locale -a' command
# DAEMON_LOCALE: If set to 'yes', use $LOCALE as the locale during daemon
# startup and during the boot process. If set to 'no', the C locale is used.
# HARDWARECLOCK: set to "UTC" or "localtime", any other value will result
#   in the hardware clock being left untouched (useful for virtualization)
#   Note: Using "localtime" is discouraged.
# TIMEZONE: timezones are found in /usr/share/zoneinfo
# KEYMAP: keymaps are found in /usr/share/kbd/keymaps
# CONSOLEFONT: found in /usr/share/kbd/consolefonts (only needed for non-US)
# CONSOLEMAP: found in /usr/share/kbd/consoletrans
# USECOLOR: use ANSI color sequences in startup messages
# VERBOSE: Verbose level (from 1 to 8). man 3 syslog for level info
#
LOCALE="en_GB.UTF-8"
DAEMON_LOCALE="no"
HARDWARECLOCK="localtime"
TIMEZONE="Europe/London"
KEYMAP="uk"
CONSOLEFONT=
CONSOLEMAP=
USECOLOR="yes"
VERBOSE="3"

# -----------------------------------------------------------------------
# HARDWARE
# -----------------------------------------------------------------------
#
# MODULES: Modules to load at boot-up. Blacklisting is no longer supported.
#   Replace every !module by an entry as on the following line in a file in
#   /etc/modprobe.d:
#     blacklist module
#   See "man modprobe.conf" for details.
#
MOD_AUTOLOAD="yes"
MODULES=(powernow-k8 cpufreq_ondemand cpufreq_powersave)

# Udev settle timeout (default to 30)
UDEV_TIMEOUT=30

# Scan for FakeRAID (dmraid) Volumes at startup
USEDMRAID="no"

# Scan for BTRFS volumes at startup
USEBTRFS="no"

# Scan for LVM volume groups at startup, required if you use LVM
USELVM="no"

# -----------------------------------------------------------------------
# NETWORKING
# -----------------------------------------------------------------------
#
# HOSTNAME: Hostname of machine. Should also be put in /etc/hosts
#
HOSTNAME="ivehiddenthis"

# Use 'ip addr' or 'ls /sys/class/net/' to see all available interfaces.
#
# Wired network setup
#   - interface: name of device (required)
#   - address: IP address (leave blank for DHCP)
#   - netmask: subnet mask (ignored for DHCP)
#   - gateway: default route (ignored for DHCP)
# 
# Static IP example
# interface=eth0
# address=192.168.0.2
# netmask=255.255.255.0
# gateway=192.168.0.1
#
# DHCP example
# interface=eth0
# address=
# netmask=
# gateway=

interface=eth0
address=
netmask=
gateway=

# Setting this to "yes" will skip network shutdown.
# This is required if your root device is on NFS.
NETWORK_PERSIST="no"

# Enable these netcfg profiles at boot-up. These are useful if you happen to
# need more advanced network features than the simple network service
# supports, such as multiple network configurations (ie, laptop users)
#   - set to 'menu' to present a menu during boot-up (dialog package required)
#   - prefix an entry with a ! to disable it
#
# Network profiles are found in /etc/network.d
#
# This requires the netcfg package
#
#NETWORKS=(main)

# -----------------------------------------------------------------------
# DAEMONS
# -----------------------------------------------------------------------
#
# Daemons to start at boot-up (in this order)
#   - prefix a daemon with a ! to disable it
#   - prefix a daemon with a @ to start it up in the background
#
# If something other takes care of your hardware clock (ntpd, dual-boot...)
# you should disable 'hwclock' here.
#
DAEMONS=(!hwclock preload syslog-ng dbus networkmanager pdnsd crond @ntpd @alsa @cpufreq)

Also, after things fail (and perhaps before they do) can you check to see if dhcp or dhclient are running?

will do next time it fails

What are you using to control NetworkManager? Can you check to see what method it is using for wired connections.  Also, see if it is set to ignore routes that are obtained automatically.

I am using NetworkManager... what do you mean by "see what method it is using for wired connections" ?

edit: I just re-read what you said... besides using "$ sudo rc.d restart networkmanager", It's using dhcpcd

Also, see if it is set to ignore routes that are obtained automatically.

How?

Thanks

MOD EDIT -- Changed quote tags to code-- Inxsible

Last edited by Inxsible (2011-07-17 19:19:57)

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#13 2011-07-17 17:24:51

sinatosk
Member
Registered: 2010-11-28
Posts: 107

Re: my main computer looses communication to WAN but LAN still works

Ok... it's failed again. dhcpcd is still running along with NetworkManager

I can still ping my Samsung Nexus S

I can still access files over LAN to different computers

This computer seems to have trouble keeping IP information

Not sure how I check if it's being ignore or not

I'm trying out dhclient now... see if that makes any difference

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have another computer with ArchLinux installed... it's my experimental machine. It's where I tested ArchLinux before trying it on my main machine. I've not used it in a while since I installed ArchLinux on my main machine...

I looked at some configurations I did before... then I noticed my experimental machine NetworkManager is using "dhclient" while my main machine is using "dhcpcd"

I installed dhclient on my main machine and restarted NetworkManager which now uses dhclient... so I stopped NetworkManager, removed dhclient and started NetworkManager again and now back to dhcpcd

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#14 2011-07-20 14:06:02

sinatosk
Member
Registered: 2010-11-28
Posts: 107

Re: my main computer looses communication to WAN but LAN still works

It's been 1 day, 17 hours now and no drop yet ( since I've installed dhclient also rebooted a couple of times into windows for some things )

I'm beginning to think dhcpcd was misconfigured... but I don't know where...

Last edited by sinatosk (2011-07-20 14:06:50)

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