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#1 2003-04-26 07:04:48

rasat
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From: Finland, working in Romania
Registered: 2002-12-27
Posts: 2,176
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Hardware detect manager for AL (hwd-4.x)

Here is an experimental hardware detect manager for test purpose (hwd.exp-0.1). It works fine on my IBM ThinkPad T20 with PCMCIA LAN 3c574, CDROM-RW, HDD USB Storage and USB wheel mouse. But more tests on different machines and hardware, feedback, new ideas and development are required.

Hwd.exp-0.1 doesn't change existing setup, only detects hardware and modules and provides information how to do manually. For additonal safty, hwd.exp makes a backup file of your /etc/X11/XF86Config (.save)

Introduction, screenshot, how-to-do and download:
http://amlug.org/new-projects/hwd/hwd-exp.html

If anyone is interested to help on this experiment, please be free to contact me:
rasat@pacific.net.sg

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#2 2003-04-26 13:48:36

sarah31
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From: Middle of Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 2,975
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Re: Hardware detect manager for AL (hwd-4.x)

one thing i notice is the it is not detecting/naming the hard drive correctly. it should be /dev/discs/disc[x] not /dev/hd[x]. but that appears minor. as well according to your site you have to recompile the kernel to use this?


AKA uknowme

I am not your friend

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#3 2003-04-26 16:53:45

rasat
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From: Finland, working in Romania
Registered: 2002-12-27
Posts: 2,176
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Re: Hardware detect manager for AL (hwd-4.x)

sarah31 wrote:

one thing i notice is the it is not detecting/naming the hard drive correctly. it should be /dev/discs/disc[x] not /dev/hd[x].

In the instructions I have suggested to use (untag) old device names in /etc/devfsd.conf by following the sample file included in the tarball.

Hwd reads /proc/partitions, /dev and /proc/modules. If you take a look at the screenshot "Scanning Harddisk" reads /proc/partitions (devfs partition names) and "Devices detected" old device names in /dev and devfs names in /dev/sd.

"Manual setup info" suggests to use old device names. This will be a matter of AL to decide.

<b>Note:</b> screenshot is updated now showing "Mouse", "Scanning Harddisk" and "Swap partition detected".

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#4 2003-04-26 21:47:40

Mork
Member
From: Visby, Sweden
Registered: 2003-03-09
Posts: 32

Re: Hardware detect manager for AL (hwd-4.x)

This is a very good project  big_smile I will try the script on my machine tomorrow.

The arch kernel worked fine for me but I had to do some research before getting ethernet and sound working. HWD can save lots of time here.

If it is possible I think there should be an option to let the script do some actual configuration as well (rc.conf modules array, Xf86Config). While most archers might like doing stuff themselves (to have control etc.) I think it would be great if there was a install option that even the really green newbies could use .. A script that does partitioning, hardwaredetect and installs a certain package set. Leaving chosing keymap, setting root passwords and creating user accounts as the only steps requiring user intput. Now this is far off and there probably are good reasons for not doing it that way...

HWD is a valuable tool, wether used for a newbie-install or as a simple timesaver. Good job!


"Plurality should not be assumed without necessity" or "keep it simple"
            - William of Ockham (1285-1349)

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#5 2003-04-27 03:21:47

rasat
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From: Finland, working in Romania
Registered: 2002-12-27
Posts: 2,176
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Re: Hardware detect manager for AL (hwd-4.x)

Mork wrote:

I will try the script on my machine tomorrow.
The arch kernel worked fine for me but I had to do some research before getting ethernet and sound working. HWD can save lots of time here.

Please, let me know if it detects your Ethernet. Sound should not be a problem but with Ethernet cards I am curious to know the result.

My main tool for this test, I am running Knoppix live CD on different machines. So far I have only tested notebooks (laptop). If CD does detect but not HWD, then its only a matter to include some files and scripts. In the tarball, for development purpose, I have included the original script as /etc/int.d/knoppix-autoconfig_original. The /usr/bin/hwd is a linkfile to /etc/int.d/knoppix-autoconfig.

About HWD for newbies is possible as far as Knoppix CD does automatically the setup. But its preferable to build HWD instead with automatic "how to do manually" information thereby newbies learn and don't get stuck with lack of knowledge.  smile

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#6 2003-04-27 11:11:00

andy
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2002-10-11
Posts: 374

Re: Hardware detect manager for AL (hwd-4.x)

Just a general comment here : I chose Archlinux because it did NOT do all the things under the hood. I want to be in control. I was quite happy to get away from things like Kudzu (another hardware detection AND CONFIGURATION tool). Also see
http://www.archlinux.org/about.php :-)

Now, I fully understand, that this is only a detection and not a configuration tool. And my opinon would be : don't change that ! :-)

OTOH, I do use Knoppix from time to time (not on my main machine where I run Arch), and I am indeed impressed with its hardware detection capabilities. So, in the end I probably will even use such a tool, but only to find out, "why the hell isn't my config working" :-) or similarly.

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#7 2003-04-27 21:07:10

Mork
Member
From: Visby, Sweden
Registered: 2003-03-09
Posts: 32

Re: Hardware detect manager for AL (hwd-4.x)

God points about learning by doing. Perhaps it is best then to have HWD there only to recognaice and recommend rather than configure.

I tried the script. The kernel would not compile with the config-hwd, it exited complaning about PCMIA.. I got distracted at this point and have not had the time to figure out what the actual problem was. However I tried the script with Archs custom kernel (by mistake actually, I forgot I didnt get the new kernel workning). It appears to work to some degree, I notice it does not mention the ethernet card module (sis900) in the manual setup info (it is available as a module in the Arch kernel)..

# hwd    
Starting hardaware detect...
Running from HD, regenerate ld.so.cache and modules.dep...
 Processor 0 is  Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.40GHz 2390MHz, 512 KB Cache
Autoconfiguring devices...                       Done.
 Soundcard: Intel Corporation|82440MX AC97 Audio Controller, driver=i810_audio
 Video:  Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS]|SiS650/651/M650/740 PCI/AGP VGA Display Adapter, using XFree86(vesa) Server
 Monitor: Generic Monitor, H:28.0-96.0kHz, V:50.0-76.0Hz
 Using Modes: "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480"
Scanning Harddisk:  /dev/ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/disc
Swap partition detected: /dev/ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part2
Creating XF86Config sample file: /etc/X11/XF86Config.hwd (-4.hwd)
Network device detected: eth0
Devices detected: 
/dev/hda  /dev/hda1  /dev/hda2  /dev/hda3  /dev/hda4
Modules detected: 
sd_mod sr_mod scsi_mod i810_audio ac97_codec ipt_state ip_conntrack iptable_filter ip_tables sis900 rtc 
Hardware detect is completed.

Manual setup info: 
Sound module: modprobe i810_audio
USB module (mice, printer, etc.): modprobe usb-uhci (or usb-ohci)
PCMCIA, netcard, etc. modules): modprobe yenta_socket (or pcmcia_core), ds
Other moldules: modprobe 'module' >/dev/null 2>&1
Start network run: cardmgr -f, dhcpd eth0

Mount hdd: mount /dev/hda[x] /mnt/[x]
Install XF86Config (x+mouse): /etc/init.d/xf86.sh
Unstall: /etc/init.d/unxf86.sh

I will try again later this week with the correct kernel. Perhaps the results will be more useful then.


"Plurality should not be assumed without necessity" or "keep it simple"
            - William of Ockham (1285-1349)

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#8 2003-04-28 02:35:23

rasat
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From: Finland, working in Romania
Registered: 2002-12-27
Posts: 2,176
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Re: Hardware detect manager for AL (hwd-4.x)

Mork wrote:

I tried the script. The kernel would not compile with the config-hwd, it exited complaning about PCMIA.

However I tried the script with Archs custom kernel (by mistake actually, I forgot I didnt get the new kernel workning). It appears to work to some degree, I notice it does not mention the ethernet card module (sis900) in the manual setup info (it is available as a module in the Arch kernel).

Modules detected: 
sd_mod sr_mod scsi_mod i810_audio ac97_codec ipt_state ip_conntrack iptable_filter ip_tables sis900 rtc 
Hardware detect is completed.

Did you try on kernel linux-2.4.20? For your information, if your existing kernel uses modules, then there is no need to compile a new. The "config-hwd" is a kernel config with all possible hardware as modules.

From your "Modules detected" sound and ethernet card modules are detected.
Try load the modules:

 modprobe i810_audio
modprobe sis900

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#9 2003-04-28 15:37:37

Mork
Member
From: Visby, Sweden
Registered: 2003-03-09
Posts: 32

Re: Hardware detect manager for AL (hwd-4.x)

Ok then I compiled a kernel for no reason smile .. However I discovered another problem when I reebooted a half hour ago.. Apparently my XF86Config got overwritten.. I thought this was not supposed to happen. As I run HWD twice the XF86Config.save file turned out to be identical with the new conf sad No biggie but a tad annoying X.. for some reason X also refuses to load my keyboard layout even when I fixed the file .. Oh, my usb mouse did not get configured to work in X by HWD..


"Plurality should not be assumed without necessity" or "keep it simple"
            - William of Ockham (1285-1349)

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#10 2003-04-28 16:27:07

Mork
Member
From: Visby, Sweden
Registered: 2003-03-09
Posts: 32

Re: Hardware detect manager for AL (hwd-4.x)

Did you try on kernel linux-2.4.20?

Yes, fresh from kernel.org.

Further resarch in to the config mess showed that only XF86Config-4 had been owerwritten, XF86Config was actually untouched.

I just realised I had posted more in nearly as much in the last hour than in my entire time using Arch  lol


"Plurality should not be assumed without necessity" or "keep it simple"
            - William of Ockham (1285-1349)

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#11 2003-05-02 23:44:10

rasat
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From: Finland, working in Romania
Registered: 2002-12-27
Posts: 2,176
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Re: Hardware detect manager for AL (hwd-4.x)

Thanks Mork for your feedback. I have fixed the problems and upgraded few things in version hwd.exp-0.2. I also updated the "Manual setup info" to recognize 12 PCMCIA cards and 98 Ethernet cards:
http://amlug.org/new-projects/hwd/device_list

Download and new screenshot:
http://amlug.org/new-projects/hwd/hwd-exp.html

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#12 2003-05-03 11:42:50

Mork
Member
From: Visby, Sweden
Registered: 2003-03-09
Posts: 32

Re: Hardware detect manager for AL (hwd-4.x)

Ah, good. It would be nice with a package. I at least have become very lazy thanks to the simplicity of pacman  smile


"Plurality should not be assumed without necessity" or "keep it simple"
            - William of Ockham (1285-1349)

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#13 2003-05-03 17:51:52

rasat
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From: Finland, working in Romania
Registered: 2002-12-27
Posts: 2,176
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Re: Hardware detect manager for AL (hwd-4.x)

Mork wrote:

It would be nice with a package.

   
I have to check how to go about it. To make it into pacman package is not a problem as long as its checked by AL's package maintainer. But Hwd is a new program trying to be part of AL (or to some extent). This makes the matter different. I have to check what's procedure. 

I am suggesting (if it doesn't already exist) AL to have one "new-projects" archive where members can upload programs they consider benefiting AL similar to the "incoming" archive. Or can "incoming" archive be used?

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#14 2003-05-05 13:00:31

Moritz
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From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: 2002-10-12
Posts: 166

Re: Hardware detect manager for AL (hwd-4.x)

I agree with Andy!
Arch is small and I like that! I like to be in control of everything!
If the users realy want a hardware detection, it might be better to be able to switch it off during install or split the normal AL from the HWD-AL

Regards,
Moritz

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#15 2003-05-06 05:01:11

hApy
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From: Victoria, BC
Registered: 2003-04-13
Posts: 194
Website

Re: Hardware detect manager for AL (hwd-4.x)

Sounds like a cool idea. I think you should make it into a package so it makes it easier to install and test it out on our configurations. I feel wary of instalilng anything that isn't a package... I usually wait until I package it or else wait until somebody else does. smile

Hapy.

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#16 2003-05-07 12:24:55

rasat
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From: Finland, working in Romania
Registered: 2002-12-27
Posts: 2,176
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Re: Hardware detect manager for AL (hwd-4.x)

Moritz wrote:

If the users realy want a hardware detection, it might be better to be able to switch it off during install or split the normal AL from the HWD-AL

To make HWD part of AL, I didn't mean as a part of AL's system but as an official (or unofficial) package. Its upto users to install the package and also to decide when to run HWD.

Though I try to make HWD as an optional utility tools for AL only, still it requires to follow package standard and plans of AL. What is the future plan of AL is open for discusion and there is a topic "What will Arch Linux 1.0 become?". In the topic I mentioned about an "autodetect recognition engine to run all common hardwares".
http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?p=1931

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#17 2003-05-23 14:00:48

rasat
Forum Fellow
From: Finland, working in Romania
Registered: 2002-12-27
Posts: 2,176
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Re: Hardware detect manager for AL (hwd-4.x)

I have uploaded version hwd.exp-0.4.1

Tarball (hwd.exp-0.4.tar.gz) contains hwd.exp-0.4.pkg.tar.gz to install with AL's package manager. This is <b>NOT</b> an official AL package but can be installed and uninstalled with pacman. With an easier package install hopefully getting more users to test the hwd.

<b>Download:</b>
http://amlug.org/new-projects/hwd/hwd.exp-0.4.1.tar.gz
# tar zxvf hwd.exp-0.4.1.tar.gz
# pacman -A hwd.exp-0.4.1.pkg.tar.gz

<b>Uninstall:</b>
# pacman --remove hwd.exp

<b>What's new in 0.4.1:</b>
1. Pacman install and uninstall.
2. Detects all PCMCIA cards (LAN, modem, compacflash card, etc.). Unknown cards detected with "cardctl status" reading /var/lib/pcmcia/stab.
3. Detects all Ethernet cards. Unknown cards read from /proc/pci.
4. Improved "Manual setup info".

<b>Requirement:</b>
1. Remove previous version (0.1 or 0.2) before installing version 0.4.1 (script /etc/init.d/knoppix-autoconfig is moved to /etc/hwd/). Check previous version's Filelist and remove the files manually.

More information:
http://amlug.org/new-projects/hwd/hwd-exp.html

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#18 2003-07-02 07:56:54

rasat
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From: Finland, working in Romania
Registered: 2002-12-27
Posts: 2,176
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Re: Hardware detect manager for AL (hwd-4.x)

I have uploaded hwd.exp-0.5.
http://amlug.org/new-projects/hwd/hwd-exp.html

This  is the last experimental version of HWD before the final release of hwd-1.0. Ver. 1.0 will be developed on the feedback of <b>"Arch Linux (AMLUG live CD v0.1) v0.5 beta"</b> project I am working on. HWD made it possible to create a practical / user friendly live CD. The CD (iso) is ready and I am preparing to upload it with an info webpage. A new topic will be created on this forum introducing this project.

(v0.5 beta= Arch Linux 0.4 with latest packages dated on 24th June 2003)

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#19 2003-07-24 00:34:42

Mt.Tam-Luxer
Member
From: San Rafael, CA, U.S.A.
Registered: 2003-07-24
Posts: 32

Re: Hardware detect manager for AL (hwd-4.x)

Hey rasat -- you're my first post !!  Thank you for your work on HWD, I'm finding it useful and a great conveniance.  Couple-O-questions:

1.  Why does HWD create both a XF86Config.hwd and a XF86Config-4.hwd?  It seems that the *-4 is the usable one(!?).  Does the other have a purpose?  It appears to have less complete detection results.

2.  I'm using it on a stock 0.5(NOVA) kernel(patched to 2.4.21-ac4).  Are there any additional concerns with regard to special options needing to be enabled in the .config?  I've followed your How-to-Install and seems to work fine.

Thanx, again.

FWIW:  I think this would be a great addition to Arch(official) purely as a time-saver, as I and most others would still have items to tweak and double-check post-install.  Why not allow the system to make helpful suggestions and give guidance to new users without making any 'automatic' changes.  Isn't that what the Arch-Installer is doing to begin with?

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#20 2003-07-24 01:14:57

sarah31
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From: Middle of Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 2,975
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Re: Hardware detect manager for AL (hwd-4.x)

i believe you will see HWD in future installers.


AKA uknowme

I am not your friend

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#21 2003-07-24 01:26:56

hApy
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From: Victoria, BC
Registered: 2003-04-13
Posts: 194
Website

Re: Hardware detect manager for AL (hwd-4.x)

I actually used this package just recently to figure out how to use my USB minidisc connection w/ VMWare.... (the performance was unuseable unfortunately) it worked great, except that it messes up the mouse if you run it while in XF86.... is there some reason for this? is it changing the current mouse settings, or does the detection method do this?

Hapy.

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#22 2003-07-24 10:28:03

rasat
Forum Fellow
From: Finland, working in Romania
Registered: 2002-12-27
Posts: 2,176
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Re: Hardware detect manager for AL (hwd-4.x)

Mt.Tam-Luxer wrote:

1.  Why does HWD create both a XF86Config.hwd and a XF86Config-4.hwd?  It seems that the *-4 is the usable one(!?).  Does the other have a purpose?  It appears to have less complete detection results.

Why not allow the system to make helpful suggestions and give guidance to new users without making any 'automatic' changes. Isn't that what the Arch-Installer is doing to begin with?

HWD is based on Knoppix's script and I kept the both XF86Configs as such. XF86Config is for older X version what Arch Linux doesn't use, so I will remove it and only keep XF86Config-4 in hwd-1.0. Thanks for the feedback.

You are right about not having any 'automatic' changes. But I found some vga cards cause lot of headage trying get right configs with xf86cfg or other x-installer. The sample XF86Config-4.hwd is a relief at that stage smile.

hApy wrote:

....except that it messes up the mouse if you run it while in XF86.... is there some reason for this?

This is caused by the existing /etc/XF86Config-4. For HWD to create an accurate sample file (/etc/XF86Config-4.hwd) remove XF86Config-4 before running hwd. Hwd-1.0 will warn if XF86Config-4 already exists.

<b>NOTE:</b> Currently HWD requires only /etc/XF86Config.in and XF86Config-4.in to generate the sample file(s)

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#23 2003-08-06 08:43:12

gnomebox
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Registered: 2003-08-05
Posts: 14
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Re: Hardware detect manager for AL (hwd-4.x)

I wish there was an option (or if I missed it) to make hwd run without priting all of the hwd files. I'm sure people would just like to run it without it placing them all over thier system (like me).

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#24 2003-08-06 09:54:37

rasat
Forum Fellow
From: Finland, working in Romania
Registered: 2002-12-27
Posts: 2,176
Website

Re: Hardware detect manager for AL (hwd-4.x)

gnomebox wrote:

I wish there was an option (or if I missed it) to make hwd run without priting all of the hwd files. I'm sure people would just like to run it without it placing them all over thier system (like me).

I also felt the original Knoppix screen print is overwhelming and too colorful. Version hwd-1.0 the print will have a simplier layout and more organized. In live CD ver. 0.2, which is almost ready to upload, the manual setup runs a full hwd print but auto setup excludes the device and module print. I will include the same option as "Normal / Expert (N/E)" in hwd-1.0.

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#25 2003-08-06 10:00:24

gnomebox
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Registered: 2003-08-05
Posts: 14
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Re: Hardware detect manager for AL (hwd-4.x)

awesome.

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