New Synaptics Touchpad, scrolling and tapping problems

Wintershade · 2009-05-28 08:18:14

Hello. I've just bought a new Acer Aspire 7730 notebook, and I'm having trouble with my Synaptics touchpad device.
As I have stated in the subject, scrolling with two fingers and tapping with two fingers - the two neat features described on the Arch Wiki, which I've gotten very used to on my old notebook - don't work. I've tried both settings in xorg.conf which were described in the wiki, and the HAL configuration that's been described on the forums here.
However, none of these work.

A friend told me it's possible that this won't work on my hardware at all, since Apple has claimed some property to the multitouch functionalities. How can I check whether my touchpad is capable of this at all?

Any other suggestions?

Thanks in advance!

tomk · 2009-05-28 13:26:16

Fixed your URLs.

Post some X log output - "don't work", "none of these work", etc are not of any use to those who might be interested in helping you.

Llama · 2009-05-28 16:56:13

A variant

Wintershade · 2009-05-28 20:15:30

tomk wrote:

Fixed your URLs.
Post some X log output - "don't work", "none of these work", etc are not of any use to those who might be interested in helping you.

"None of these work" was in reference to the solutions to setting up the touchpad that were stated in the articles linked in my first post.
I've put my Xorg.0.log in the pastebin.
If there's anything else I should paste, please do tell me.

I'll take a look into the variant solution, thanks Llama.
Anyway, as I've asked before, does anyone know if there's a way to diagnose my touchpad? I mean, I'd like to see whether it's even capable of detecting stuff like two-finger touches, etc. Anyone have any ideas on that one?

edit: another quick question - upon re-reading some articles, I've noticed that I may have not understood something correctly. What do people mean by "removing all inputdevice sections from xorg.conf" in order to make the touchpad be managed by HAL rather than Xorg hotplugging? Does it mean ALL inputdevice stuff, or just the inputdevice sections that have something to do with the touchpad?

Thanks

Last edited by Wintershade (2009-05-28 20:30:07)

alterkacker · 2009-05-28 20:44:40

Are you sure it's really a Synaptics touchpad? If it's an "Alps Touchpad Glidepoint" (like in my Dell Vostro 1510) then the hardware itself doesn't support the two finger operations - as I discovered much to my disappointment. Look in your Xorg.0.log for a line like this:

(**) |-->Input Device "Alps Touchpad Glidepoint"

There doesn't seem to be any workaround. The best you can do is add something like:

Option  "LTCornerButton" "2"

to the touchpad configuration which means a tap in the top left corner will simulate a middle button click. But in my experience it doesn't work very well.

Wintershade · 2009-05-28 21:02:30

I don't know... how do I check that to be completely sure?
The drivers CD that came with my notebook has Windows drivers only, and when I installed Vista and put the CD inside, I found only Synaptics drivers. When I installed them, they seemed to work properly; however I had never bothered to set up any advanced functions, such as two-finger tapping, in Windows.

alterkacker · 2009-05-28 21:23:32

Well in my system with a hardcoded xorg.conf file the above is about line number 22 in the Xorg.0.log file. If you are using the newer style dynamic X configuration then your log file would have a line like:

(II) config/hal: Adding input device AlpsPS/2 ALPS GlidePoint

.

The Xorg.0.log file is in the /var/log directory. If this is all new to you then you might want to take a look at http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Xorg. Good luck!

Wintershade · 2009-05-28 21:27:56

Ok, how do I check whether I have an ALPS touchpad or not, to be completely sure?
The drivers CD that came with my notebook has Windows drivers only, and when I installed Vista and put the CD inside, I found only Synaptics drivers. When I installed them, they seemed to work properly; however I had never bothered to set up any advanced functions, such as two-finger tapping, in Windows.

edit: I've just logged into Windows and checked the settings and device information for my touchpad. I've also visited the Acer website and looked at the driver downloads for my notebook. None of these mentioned ALPS, just Synaptics. What gives?

I'll check out the wiki now, and report later (though I'm not sure if it'll be today, I'm dead tired).

Last edited by Wintershade (2009-05-28 21:36:51)

alterkacker · 2009-05-28 22:12:42

Hey I just saw that you had your Xorg.0.log file posted and you do *not* have the ALPS touchpad. Everything I said has now become irrelevant!

tung · 2009-05-29 01:09:15

Wintershade wrote:

Anyway, as I've asked before, does anyone know if there's a way to diagnose my touchpad? I mean, I'd like to see whether it's even capable of detecting stuff like two-finger touches, etc. Anyone have any ideas on that one?

If you're using synaptics, synclient may help:

synclient -m 200

Play around with your touchpad and read the numbers. In particular, the 'f' column says how many fingers it's picking up.

Wintershade · 2009-05-29 10:21:51

Ok, so I apparently don't have the ALPS touchpad. On the other hand, when I run the synclient, the f column reports only one finger all the time, no matter with how many fingers I mindlessly bang on my touchpad. The only thing that changes is the width of the "finger" that's pressing on the 'pad - one finger reports usually 4, while two fingers report 5 in most cases.

So, it seems that I do have a Synaptics touchpad, but it doesn't recognize more than one finger. Is this even possible for the Synaptics touchpad? Or am I doing something wrong?

edit: I've just run "hwd -x" and it detected some stuff automatically. However, in the "Section Module" the line "Load synaptics" is commented out, and there are three inputdevice sections for the pointing device - one for the USB mouse (/dev/input/mice), one for the PS/2 mouse (/dev/psaux), and one for the serial mouse (/dev/ttyS0). Is this normal? It seems that my touchpad is detected as a some kind of mouse... weird.

Any more ideas would be much appreciated.

Last edited by Wintershade (2009-05-29 13:03:25)

SomeGuyDude · 2009-05-29 14:17:50

Well I know it's -possible- because I have two-finger taps registered as a middle-click. Here's my 11-x11-synaptics.fdi dealie:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>
<deviceinfo version="0.2">
  <device>
    <match key="info.capabilities" contains="input.touchpad">
      <match key="info.product" contains="Synaptics TouchPad">
        <merge key="input.x11_driver" type="string">synaptics</merge>
      </match>
      <match key="info.product" contains="AlpsPS/2 ALPS">
        <merge key="input.x11_driver" type="string">synaptics</merge>
      </match>
      <match key="info.product" contains="appletouch">
        <merge key="input.x11_driver" type="string">synaptics</merge>
      </match>
      <match key="info.product" contains="bcm5974">
        <merge key="input.x11_driver" type="string">synaptics</merge>
      </match>
        <merge key="input.x11_driver" type="string">synaptics</merge>
        <merge key="input.x11_options.SHMConfig" type="string">true</merge>
    <merge key="input.x11_options.MaxTapMove" type="string">2000</merge>
    <merge key="input.x11_options.VertEdgeScroll" type="string">true</merge>
    <merge key="input.x11_options.VertTwoFingerScroll" type="string">false</merge>
    <merge key="input.x11_options.HorizTwoFingerScroll" type="string">false</merge>
    <merge key="input.x11_options.CircularScrolling" type="string">false</merge>
    <merge key="input.x11_options.MinSpeed" type="string">0.30</merge>
    <merge key="input.x11_options.MaxSpeed" type="string">0.65</merge>
    <merge key="input.x11_options.Accelfactor" type="string">0.0035</merge>
    <merge key="input.x11_options.protocol" type="string">event</merge>
    <merge key="input.x11_options.touchpadoff" type="string">0</merge>
    <merge key="input.x11_options.shmconfig" type="string">on</merge>
    <merge key="input.x11_options.TapButton1" type="string">1</merge>
    <merge key="input.x11_options.TapButton2" type="string">2</merge>
    <merge key="input.x11_options.TapButton3" type="string">3</merge>
    <merge key="input.x11_options.VertEdgeScroll" type="string">true</merge>
    <merge key="input.x11_options.HorizEdgeScroll" type="string">true</merge>
    <merge key="input.x11_options.LeftEdge" type="string">1700</merge>
    <merge key="input.x11_options.BottomEdge" type="string">4200</merge>
    <merge key="input.x11_options.HorizScrollDelta" type="string">20</merge>
    <merge key="input.x11_options.FingerLow" type="string">25</merge>
    <merge key="input.x11_options.FingerHigh" type="string">30</merge>
    </match>
  </device>
</deviceinfo>

Last edited by SomeGuyDude (2009-05-29 14:18:58)

Wintershade · 2009-05-29 15:16:30

Hmm. I've tried a similar configuration, and it didn't work. I've just discovered the following:
my touchpad is recognized as a PS/2 touchpad, or, as ArchWiki would say it, an emulated PS/2 mouse. If I understood this correctly

ArchWiki wrote:

This has a number of issues. First, being an emulated PS/2 mouse, the protocol is predefined, and has inherent limitations, overcome by various proprietary extensions, like ImPS/2 and ExplorerPS/2. What's more, events coming from all the mice have to be translated to this protocol, and thus untranslatable events are lost or misunderstood.

it means that I won't be able to do this with hotplugging. Is this right?

OTOH, if I try to disable hotplugging by adding

   Section "ServerFlags"
     Option "AutoAddDevices" "False"
     Option "AllowEmptyInput" "False"
   EndSection

as stated in the ArchWiki, I am unable to use my keyboard. However, this also may be my own mistake. How should I configure my Xorg conf in order to use my keyboard without the hotplugging?

Thanks

Last edited by Wintershade (2009-05-29 15:17:13)

lukrop · 2009-06-13 21:01:10

Wintershade wrote:

Ok, so I apparently don't have the ALPS touchpad. On the other hand, when I run the synclient, the f column reports only one finger all the time, no matter with how many fingers I mindlessly bang on my touchpad. The only thing that changes is the width of the "finger" that's pressing on the 'pad - one finger reports usually 4, while two fingers report 5 in most cases.
So, it seems that I do have a Synaptics touchpad, but it doesn't recognize more than one finger. Is this even possible for the Synaptics touchpad? Or am I doing something wrong?
edit: I've just run "hwd -x" and it detected some stuff automatically. However, in the "Section Module" the line "Load synaptics" is commented out, and there are three inputdevice sections for the pointing device - one for the USB mouse (/dev/input/mice), one for the PS/2 mouse (/dev/psaux), and one for the serial mouse (/dev/ttyS0). Is this normal? It seems that my touchpad is detected as a some kind of mouse... weird.
Any more ideas would be much appreciated.

First of all, please try that command:

synclient EmulateTwoFingerMinZ=1

This defines after how much preasure the two fingers are "recognized". Now I can use two fingers again to scroll and emulate the third mouse button. Well now I want to play around with 3 fingers for example to emulate the second mouse button.
I have exactly the same situation (Toshiba L300D-21P) my touchpad is recognized as Synaptics touchpad:

I: Bus=0011 Vendor=0002 Product=0007 Version=92b1
N: Name="SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad"
P: Phys=isa0060/serio1/input0
S: Sysfs=/devices/platform/i8042/serio1/input/input7
U: Uniq=
H: Handlers=mouse1 event7
B: EV=b
B: KEY=6420 7000f 0 0 0 0
B: ABS=11000003

But same situation here about the finger-count detected by `synaptics -m 100` which is only 1 even if i use 3 fingers.

Since synaptics recognizes that the width changes there is information which could be used.

1 finger: w = ~5
2 fingers: w = ~10
3 fingers: w = ~15

So it should be possible to use this info for multi-finger touch experience.

Last edited by lukrop (2009-06-13 21:01:33)

Wintershade · 2009-06-14 10:54:46

lukrop wrote:

First of all, please try that command:
synclient EmulateTwoFingerMinZ=1
This defines after how much preasure the two fingers are "recognized". Now I can use two fingers again to scroll and emulate the third mouse button.

Tried the command, but the synclient still recognizes only one finger. After playing around with EmulateTwoFingerMinZ and EmulateTwoFingerMinW values, all I've got is the following - whatever I do, synclient recognizes it as one finger; no combination of MinW and MinZ will give different results.

Moreover, whatever I do with my touchpad, the synclient sees approximately the same Z, no matter how many fingers I tap or drag around my touchpad with. Two fingers report a larger Z initially, but the overlappings are huge. The width is, on the other hand, always below 10, except for when I hold one finger still, and drag another finger around the touchpad. The W value can reach up to 15 then.
However, when I enable the "EmulateTwoFingerMinW" value, set it to 10 and use the technique above (one finger holding still, dragging the other around), there's still no scrolling and no second finger recognition.

lukrop wrote:

I: Bus=0011 Vendor=0002 Product=0007 Version=92b1
N: Name="SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad"
P: Phys=isa0060/serio1/input0
S: Sysfs=/devices/platform/i8042/serio1/input/input7
U: Uniq=
H: Handlers=mouse1 event7
B: EV=b
B: KEY=6420 7000f 0 0 0 0
B: ABS=11000003
But same situation here about the finger-count detected by `synaptics -m 100` which is only 1 even if i use 3 fingers.

Exactly the same situation here. The only difference is that my touchpad is on event9, like this:

I: Bus=0011 Vendor=0002 Product=0007 Version=81b1
N: Name="SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad"
P: Phys=isa0060/serio4/input0
S: Sysfs=/devices/platform/i8042/serio4/input/input9
U: Uniq=
H: Handlers=mouse1 event9 
B: EV=b
B: KEY=420 0 7000f 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
B: ABS=11000003

And another difference is that your workaround doesn't work for me
Since there is a sensible amount of similarity between our pads, do you think I should fill in a bug report?
I mean, I don't think this isn't supposed to work...

P.S. perhaps I should mention this, since I haven't before (didn't think it was relevant) - Acer website says the touchpad is the Acer Touchpad, doesn't say anything about Synaptics (although both Windows and Linux see it as a Synaptics one), and it came with a built-in fingerprint reader. I don't know actually how much difference it makes... :-/

lukrop · 2009-06-14 14:09:11

Wintershade wrote:

And another difference is that your workaround doesn't work for me
Since there is a sensible amount of similarity between our pads, do you think I should fill in a bug report?
I mean, I don't think this isn't supposed to work...

Please try to use this stuff in your xorg.conf (except for the input handler)

Section "ServerLayout"                                                                                 
        Identifier     "X.org Configured"                                                              
        Screen      0  "Screen0" 0 0                                                                   
        InputDevice    "Mouse0" "SendCoreEvents"                                                      
        InputDevice    "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard"                                                      
EndSection        

[..]

Section "InputDevice"                                                                                  
   Identifier  "Mouse0"                                                                                
   Driver      "synaptics"                                                                             
   Option      "AlwaysCore"        "true"  # send events to CorePointer                                
  #Option      "Device"            "/dev/input/mice"                                                   
   Option      "Device"            "/dev/input/mouse1"                                                 
   Option      "Protocol"          "auto-dev"                                                          
   Option      "SHMConfig"         "true" # configurable at runtime? security risk                     
   Option      "VertTwoFingerScroll"   "true"   # vertical scroll anywhere with two fingers            
   Option      "HorizTwoFingerScroll"  "true"   # horizontal scroll anywhere with two fingers          
   Option      "EmulateTwoFingerMinZ"   "30"                                                         
   Option      "TapButton1" "1"                                                                        
   Option      "TapButton2" "2"                                                                        
   Option      "TapButton3" "3"                                                                        
   Option      "FastTaps" "1"                                                                          
EndSection

You may just ignore the commented code...

e: ahh, and I'm not using input hotplugging!

Last edited by lukrop (2009-06-14 14:10:21)

Wintershade · 2009-06-14 15:50:17

Ok, but if I don't use hotplugging then my keyboard doesn't work for some reason. Would you be willing to share your complete xorg.conf via pastebin or PM?
Thanks!

zowki · 2009-06-14 17:11:54

I think the admins should move this thread to the laptop issues section. This isnt desktop environments related.

Wintershade · 2009-06-14 21:03:36

I've asked for help here, since I've seen more questions about synaptics touchpads under this forum :-/

Arch Linux

#1 2009-05-28 08:18:14

New Synaptics Touchpad, scrolling and tapping problems

#2 2009-05-28 13:26:16

Re: New Synaptics Touchpad, scrolling and tapping problems

#3 2009-05-28 16:56:13

Re: New Synaptics Touchpad, scrolling and tapping problems

#4 2009-05-28 20:15:30

Re: New Synaptics Touchpad, scrolling and tapping problems

#5 2009-05-28 20:44:40

Re: New Synaptics Touchpad, scrolling and tapping problems

#6 2009-05-28 21:02:30

Re: New Synaptics Touchpad, scrolling and tapping problems

#7 2009-05-28 21:23:32

Re: New Synaptics Touchpad, scrolling and tapping problems

#8 2009-05-28 21:27:56

Re: New Synaptics Touchpad, scrolling and tapping problems

#9 2009-05-28 22:12:42

Re: New Synaptics Touchpad, scrolling and tapping problems

#10 2009-05-29 01:09:15

Re: New Synaptics Touchpad, scrolling and tapping problems

#11 2009-05-29 10:21:51

Re: New Synaptics Touchpad, scrolling and tapping problems

#12 2009-05-29 14:17:50

Re: New Synaptics Touchpad, scrolling and tapping problems

#13 2009-05-29 15:16:30

Re: New Synaptics Touchpad, scrolling and tapping problems

#14 2009-06-13 21:01:10

Re: New Synaptics Touchpad, scrolling and tapping problems

#15 2009-06-14 10:54:46

Re: New Synaptics Touchpad, scrolling and tapping problems

#16 2009-06-14 14:09:11

Re: New Synaptics Touchpad, scrolling and tapping problems

#17 2009-06-14 15:50:17

Re: New Synaptics Touchpad, scrolling and tapping problems

#18 2009-06-14 17:11:54

Re: New Synaptics Touchpad, scrolling and tapping problems

#19 2009-06-14 21:03:36

Re: New Synaptics Touchpad, scrolling and tapping problems

Board footer