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#1 2012-09-05 00:46:45

GTASouthPark
Member
Registered: 2012-09-05
Posts: 5

Dual Boot Windows 7 and Arch with Shared NTFS partition.

Hi everyone,

I want to dual boot windows 7 and Arch Linux.
Here's the problem... my hard drive isn't the biggest.  I want to store all my music, movies, pictures, and documents on partition that both linux and windows can access seamlessly.

I want the partition to be NTFS.   -- (the programs that map an ext4 drive to Windows are trash).

Here's what I think I need.
30GB NTFS to Windows.
30GB ext4 to Arch Linux
The remainder (190ish GB) to Shared Data.

I don't want the swap partition because I have a SSD and 4GB of RAM.

What is the best way to setup my partitions?  And is this even possible?

Thanks!

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#2 2012-09-05 01:04:41

drobole
Member
From: Norway
Registered: 2012-07-23
Posts: 123

Re: Dual Boot Windows 7 and Arch with Shared NTFS partition.

Hi,
Windows has a tendency to grow in time so I would probably give it 50GB at least. Thats my opinion anyway.
Also make sure Arch has the ntfs-3g package installed for good NTFS support.

Last edited by drobole (2012-09-05 01:04:54)

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#3 2012-09-05 02:43:17

ewaller
Administrator
From: Pasadena, CA
Registered: 2009-07-13
Posts: 13,776

Re: Dual Boot Windows 7 and Arch with Shared NTFS partition.

And, be aware that NTFS on Linux has no user or group information associated with files or directories.  Permissions are granted or refused for the whole drive based upon the user and group masks used at mount time.

Last edited by ewaller (2012-09-05 02:43:32)


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You assume people are rational and influenced by evidence.  You must not work with the public much. -- Trilby
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#4 2012-09-05 02:58:31

GTASouthPark
Member
Registered: 2012-09-05
Posts: 5

Re: Dual Boot Windows 7 and Arch with Shared NTFS partition.

ewaller wrote:

And, be aware that NTFS on Linux has no user or group information associated with files or directories.  Permissions are granted or refused for the whole drive based upon the user and group masks used at mount time.

Hmmmm, well I could give it 7,7,7 access and hope there isn't anything inside that will compromise my Linux.

However, do you know if there is a way to make windows 7 to load ext4 as a normal drive.
I don't want it to look any different than clicking on "Computer" "G:" drive or whatever I choose, and just load files.  Or have windows applications load files, such as a music player, etc.  I don't want to have to access the files through an application.  Is this possible?

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#5 2012-09-05 03:21:20

ewaller
Administrator
From: Pasadena, CA
Registered: 2009-07-13
Posts: 13,776

Re: Dual Boot Windows 7 and Arch with Shared NTFS partition.

GTASouthPark wrote:

Hmmmm, well I could give it 7,7,7 access and hope there isn't anything inside that will compromise my Linux.

That is fine.  The real problem is that any user on the Linux system can see/read/change any file on the NTFS filesystem.  You could ruin your day the next time you boot to Windows.  Also, if you had any sensitive information stored there, it is visible to any and all processes on the Linux box.

However, do you know if there is a way to make windows 7 to load ext4 as a normal drive.
I don't want it to look any different than clicking on "Computer" "G:" drive or whatever I choose, and just load files.

I would not use the ext drivers that are available to Windows.  I don't like them.  Also, it means that Windows can now write to any ext partition attached to the drive.  Do you really want Windows to have unfettered access to your Linux system files?

Not a good plan.

Last edited by ewaller (2012-09-05 03:21:53)


Nothing is too wonderful to be true, if it be consistent with the laws of nature -- Michael Faraday
You assume people are rational and influenced by evidence.  You must not work with the public much. -- Trilby
----
How to Ask Questions the Smart Way

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#6 2012-09-05 03:39:18

GTASouthPark
Member
Registered: 2012-09-05
Posts: 5

Re: Dual Boot Windows 7 and Arch with Shared NTFS partition.

ewaller wrote:

That is fine.  The real problem is that any user on the Linux system can see/read/change any file on the NTFS filesystem.

This should be okay since I will be the only one using Linux on my system.  I really doubt many of my friends could figure out how to use it let alone mess with anything.

As for assigning the partitions...

I believe you can only have 4 physical partitions and the rest have to be logical, so is it even possible to do this?

Wouldn't I need a system reserve for windows, a windows partition, and the shared space, all NTFS for windows?  That only leaves one partition for all of my LInux.

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#7 2012-09-05 03:50:20

ewaller
Administrator
From: Pasadena, CA
Registered: 2009-07-13
Posts: 13,776

Re: Dual Boot Windows 7 and Arch with Shared NTFS partition.

Not a problem.  I would create:

First of four primary partitions for windows.
Second of four primary partitions for /boot
Third of four partitions is an extended partition encompassing all the space not used by the first two partitions.

Put everything else inside the extended partition.

Mine is a bit more complicated, but this should give you an idea:

ewaller@odin:~ 1005 %sudo fdisk -l /dev/sda
Password: 

Disk /dev/sda: 320.1 GB, 320072933376 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 38913 cylinders, total 625142448 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x87b33479

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sda1   *        2048   121778159    60888056    7  HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
/dev/sda2       597366784   625135615    13884416   83  Linux
/dev/sda3       121778160   597366783   237794312    5  Extended
/dev/sda5   *   121778223   123770219      995998+  83  Linux
/dev/sda6       123770283   131770589     4000153+  82  Linux swap / Solaris
/dev/sda7       193213818   597360959   202073571   83  Linux
/dev/sda8       131781258   193213754    30716248+  83  Linux
/dev/sda9       131770591   131781194        5302    1  FAT12

Partition table entries are not in disk order
ewaller@odin:~ 1006 %

Partitions 1 and 2 are Primary partitions.  Partition 3 is an extended partition.  All the others live in partition 3


Nothing is too wonderful to be true, if it be consistent with the laws of nature -- Michael Faraday
You assume people are rational and influenced by evidence.  You must not work with the public much. -- Trilby
----
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#8 2012-09-05 04:08:33

GTASouthPark
Member
Registered: 2012-09-05
Posts: 5

Re: Dual Boot Windows 7 and Arch with Shared NTFS partition.

Thanks!  I'll have to try it on a VM tomorrow.

I'm still a little skeptical since my shared space would be NTFS, which means that if I installed '/' or '/home' on the extended partition, it would also have to be NTFS not ext4.

I wonder if this would work...
1.  System Reserve
2.  Windows
3.  '/'  ( I would just forget '/boot').
4.  Extended NTFS partition for all my data.

I might try that too on a different VM if the way you suggested doesn't work out quite right.  I'll try it though.

Last edited by GTASouthPark (2012-09-05 04:09:04)

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#9 2012-09-05 04:34:54

ewaller
Administrator
From: Pasadena, CA
Registered: 2009-07-13
Posts: 13,776

Re: Dual Boot Windows 7 and Arch with Shared NTFS partition.

GTASouthPark wrote:

I'm still a little skeptical since my shared space would be NTFS, which means that if I installed '/' or '/home' on the extended partition, it would also have to be NTFS not ext4.

Nope.  The extended partition can hold several other partitions, each of which can be a different file system. 
Look at my system -- My extended partition contains ext, swap and fat file systems

....
4.  Extended NTFS partition for all my data.

Here is the source of your confusion.  The extended partition does not have a file system (per se).  There is no such thing as an NTFS extended partition.  The extended partition is just a container.  The space that is contained by the extended partition can be sliced and diced into several partitions (edit: partitions that just don't happen to be primary partitions).  Each partition contained by the extended partition can have a different type of file system - vfat, ntfs, Reiser, ext, swap, etc...

I think that the only limitation is that Windows will not boot from a partition that is not a primary partition (although I could be wrong)

Last edited by ewaller (2012-09-05 04:37:26)


Nothing is too wonderful to be true, if it be consistent with the laws of nature -- Michael Faraday
You assume people are rational and influenced by evidence.  You must not work with the public much. -- Trilby
----
How to Ask Questions the Smart Way

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#10 2012-09-05 09:53:56

DSpider
Member
From: Romania
Registered: 2009-08-23
Posts: 2,273

Re: Dual Boot Windows 7 and Arch with Shared NTFS partition.

I want the partition to be NTFS.   -- (the programs that map an ext4 drive to Windows are trash).

Ext2Fsd.

What's great is that you can mount an ext4 partition as Read-Only in Windows, so if your Windows install gets a virus, the media stuff won't be infected.

Last edited by DSpider (2012-09-17 05:28:37)


"How to Succeed with Linux"

I have made a personal commitment not to reply in topics that start with a lowercase letter. Proper grammar and punctuation is a sign of respect, and if you do not show any, you will NOT receive any help (at least not from me).

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#11 2012-09-06 02:33:18

GTASouthPark
Member
Registered: 2012-09-05
Posts: 5

Re: Dual Boot Windows 7 and Arch with Shared NTFS partition.

ewaller wrote:

Nope.  The extended partition can hold several other partitions, each of which can be a different file system. 
Look at my system -- My extended partition contains ext, swap and fat file systems
...
Here is the source of your confusion.  The extended partition does not have a file system (per se).  There is no such thing as an NTFS extended partition.  The extended partition is just a container.  The space that is contained by the extended partition can be sliced and diced into several partitions (edit: partitions that just don't happen to be primary partitions).  Each partition contained by the extended partition can have a different type of file system - vfat, ntfs, Reiser, ext, swap, etc...

I think that the only limitation is that Windows will not boot from a partition that is not a primary partition (although I could be wrong)

Wow I totally missed that the first time!  Your setup will defensively work.  I never got a chance to try it today since I had a lot to do after classes.  I'll have to for sure get it working tomorrow.

I'm slacking

Last edited by GTASouthPark (2012-09-06 02:33:31)

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#12 2012-09-17 02:20:57

colbert
Member
Registered: 2007-12-16
Posts: 809

Re: Dual Boot Windows 7 and Arch with Shared NTFS partition.

Been reading the thread, great help ewaller!

I am planning on getting an SSD this week and doing the same thing, dual install of Windows 7 and Arch. I've done it many times, but on separate drives, so I'm just curious as I've never had a /boot partition-- is it necessary with both OSes being on the same drive? Thanks smile

Last edited by colbert (2012-09-17 02:21:38)

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#13 2012-09-17 05:28:13

DSpider
Member
From: Romania
Registered: 2009-08-23
Posts: 2,273

Re: Dual Boot Windows 7 and Arch with Shared NTFS partition.

colbert wrote:

Is it necessary with both OSes being on the same drive? Thanks smile

Even if they're not on the same drive, you can still chainload. Syslinux has this limitation, but you can install Syslinux there, as well, and chainload to it.


"How to Succeed with Linux"

I have made a personal commitment not to reply in topics that start with a lowercase letter. Proper grammar and punctuation is a sign of respect, and if you do not show any, you will NOT receive any help (at least not from me).

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#14 2012-09-17 06:25:51

colbert
Member
Registered: 2007-12-16
Posts: 809

Re: Dual Boot Windows 7 and Arch with Shared NTFS partition.

DSpider wrote:
colbert wrote:

Is it necessary with both OSes being on the same drive? Thanks smile

Even if they're not on the same drive, you can still chainload. Syslinux has this limitation, but you can install Syslinux there, as well, and chainload to it.

Ah, I see Syslinux is new to me, been using GRUB all this time. I'm going to try it out in Virtualbox, thanks smile

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#15 2012-09-17 10:20:21

alexcriss
Member
Registered: 2010-05-24
Posts: 121

Re: Dual Boot Windows 7 and Arch with Shared NTFS partition.

ewaller wrote:

That is fine.  The real problem is that any user on the Linux system can see/read/change any file on the NTFS filesystem.  You could ruin your day the next time you boot to Windows.  Also, if you had any sensitive information stored there, it is visible to any and all processes on the Linux box.
Not a good plan.

As far as I know, you can map windows users to linux users and give the files on the NTFS partition the right permissions. See:
http://www.tuxera.com/community/ntfs-3g-manual/#7

Am i missing something? It seems to work on my system.

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