Gentoo User is interested in trying out Arch Linux again.

xsilentmurmurx · 2011-01-22 05:07:50

Hey everyone. Ive been using Gentoo as my main distro for about a year now and I like it a lot. Recently ive been told some good things about Arch Linux and I think I am ready to try Arch out again. The main reason I left Arch linux was because 1) Gentoo offers its users a choice to be able to only compile the features they want in a package through its USE flags. 2) Gentoo's package management system, especially revdep-rebuild, is amazing at finding broken dependencies and fixing them up. Now my questions are: 1) Is there anything equivalent to Gentoo's USE flags feature in Arch Linux that will allow me to pick and choose which dependencies will be installed with a package? 2) is there an Arch Linux equivalent of Gentoo's revdep-rebuild which will find broken dependencies and attempt to resolve them? 3) By using the ~arch keywords in Gentoo, portage offers Gentoo users the opportunity to install different versions of a package, is there anything equivalent to that or similar to that in Arch Linux?

karol · 2011-01-22 05:44:51

1) No USE flags, but you can alter PKGBUILDs by hand - use ABS or AUR for that.

2) https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Pacman_Rosetta
revdep-rebuild = pacman dep level - testdb, shared lib level - findbrokenpkgs or lddd

3) The repos generally have only one version of the package. I don't know gentoo and don't know what do you mean by 'version' - 0.1, 0.2 etc?
If the packages don't overwrite each other's files (so if they have different paths) it is possible to install e.g. a couple different versions of firefox, but you won't find such packages in the official repos, you need to compile on you own or use user repos, if available

Last edited by karol (2011-01-22 05:51:38)

cesura · 2011-01-22 05:50:04

Well, you can always use abs and compile all of your software by hand (by editing the PKGBUILDs). There are also tools available for what you are trying to do, one of the better ones being pacbuilder (https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=48957).

Also, you can technically install different versions/releases of a package side-by-side, if that's what you're asking.

Last edited by cesura (2011-01-22 05:50:25)

ANOKNUSA · 2011-01-22 06:22:09

1) USE Flags: no, and the Arch devs seem pretty adamant about keeping it that way. This is understandable, as the "Arch Way" expresses simplicity in code, allowing for control by those users who want it. Granted, this means Arch won't give you quite as much immediate control as Gentoo does, but that's a choice we make.
2) Others more experienced can tell you better than I--as can you--but revdep-rebuild recompiles certain packages to eliminate certain unwanted op-deps and optimize installed package's code? Tools do exist to rebuild one's system according to one's own specifications (see PACBUILDER), but this isn't quite as "simple" as Gentoo's USE flags. Of course, Arch is binary-based, so this isn't as big an issue for its users. As for existing deps, Pacman won't necessarily break deps; you can push the bleeding edge if your wish. However, Arch is a DIY community. The community and Pacman won't carry you (of course, you're a Gentoo user, so you probably won't need to be carried, just helped along sometimes).
3) There aren't any slots in Arch. It is possible to install multiple versions of a program, but the package manage manager won't necessarily handle it for you. I have limited experience with Portage (Sabayon, not good-old-Gentoo, honestly)--so I could be misunderstanding you--but should you wish to push at the bleeding-friggin'-edge and find problems, you can use a simple pacman command to downgrade, so long as you've retained a full package cache (the Arch Rollback Machine folks work hard to help with that, too). All told, there is a ports-like system in Arch, although (unlike Gentoo) It isn't the base of the system. It really just exists so you have the ability to build custom versions of those packages you want.

archix · 2011-01-22 17:42:30

Arch and Gentoo are my two favorite distributions - I use them both. My basic setup is a tiny little atom netbook that I use as a terminal, from which I ssh and rdesktop into my other boxes/vms. I run Gentoo on that netbook because I have found appreciable performance gains by compiling with tweaked CFLAGS and minimizing dependencies with USE flags. Portage makes this easier to manage than anything else I've found. I have to compile with distcc, though because the atom CPU is so slow. Custom compiling in Arch is possible, of course. I've found Arch tends to be a more up-to-date than Gentoo, but I can always stay bleeding edge with either distribution by messing with package.keywords, or pulling Arch packages out of test. Arch is a lot closer to "it Just Works" than anyone gives it credit for - I find it is so well maintained and packaged that I very rarely have to troubleshoot any problems after updates. I have more trouble with Redhat and Debian derived distros in this regard - so I pretty much stick to my two favorite "rolling release" distros. I run Arch on most of my systems because keeping them updated is so effortless (and blazing fast).

ewaller · 2011-01-22 18:14:46

I bounce back and forth between the two. They are undoubtedly the only distributions for me. For me it comes down to this: If you really want to learn the inners of how Linux works, and you have all the time in the world to explore, go Gentoo. If you really need to get something done with Linux, use Arch.

I was out of work for about six weeks. During that time I took a break from Arch and spent some quality time with Gentoo. Now that I am working and had to get a development system running in a hurry, I choose Arch at work. That prompted me to change back here at home as well (I got tired of typing emerge into my arch system and pacman into my Gentoo system)

kikinovak · 2011-01-22 19:13:55

I'm an IT professional using 100% GNU/Linux. Recently I've been more and more fed up at how nearly all major - and minor - consumer grade distros tend to imitate Windows by automagically configuring everything while not always making good choices. Since I'm often replacing rotten Windows installs on client's machines by Linux installs, I have to deal all the time with hardware that gets thrown at me (when I fail, sometimes literally, nah just kidding). So I need something reasonably recent, reasonable stable and reasonably... flexible. Last autumn I spent much time with Gentoo, which seemed the perfect system for me... except the compile times are a no-no. In practice, I just can't explain to a customer that I have to camp in his office for a few days until KDE4, Firefox and OO finish to build

So my next choice was Arch, and what can a poor boy say? I'm happy with it.

Xyne · 2011-01-22 20:15:11

kikinovak wrote:

In practice, I just can't explain to a customer that I have to camp in his office for a few days until KDE4, Firefox and OO finish to build

If your customer has hardware that takes days to compile KDE4, Firefox and OO, they probably can't afford to pay you anyway.

Btw, Bauerbill's AutoPatch option can be used to automatically configure build options when building packages from source.

Misfit138 · 2011-01-23 01:46:07

Xyne wrote:

Bauerbill's AutoPatch option can be used to automatically configure build options when building packages from source.

Win.
Use Bauerbill.

hjl3 · 2011-01-23 06:36:09

I'm trying to decide on Arch or Gentoo myself. After spending the last ~1.5 years in Ubuntu, want to get back to a power users distro. I spent 2 years with Arch and 4 with Gentoo before that.

They're both awesome and, for me atleast, its a difficult choice.

Beelzebud · 2011-01-23 19:46:41

For me it just came down to time and convenience. I tried Gentoo out, but I just found myself always compiling something, and never really getting the system to a point where I would just use it.

Arch Linux

#1 2011-01-22 05:07:50

Gentoo User is interested in trying out Arch Linux again.

#2 2011-01-22 05:44:51

Re: Gentoo User is interested in trying out Arch Linux again.

#3 2011-01-22 05:50:04

Re: Gentoo User is interested in trying out Arch Linux again.

#4 2011-01-22 06:22:09

Re: Gentoo User is interested in trying out Arch Linux again.

#5 2011-01-22 17:42:30

Re: Gentoo User is interested in trying out Arch Linux again.

#6 2011-01-22 18:14:46

Re: Gentoo User is interested in trying out Arch Linux again.

#7 2011-01-22 19:13:55

Re: Gentoo User is interested in trying out Arch Linux again.

#8 2011-01-22 20:15:11

Re: Gentoo User is interested in trying out Arch Linux again.

#9 2011-01-23 01:46:07

Re: Gentoo User is interested in trying out Arch Linux again.

#10 2011-01-23 06:36:09

Re: Gentoo User is interested in trying out Arch Linux again.

#11 2011-01-23 19:46:41

Re: Gentoo User is interested in trying out Arch Linux again.

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