A special broadcast for Arch Linux aficionados

INCSlayer · 2008-05-21 09:03:53

he is actually reading this thread and editing his moronic rant with insults against people who have posted here

this makes him a petty petty man who needs to grow up

Last edited by INCSlayer (2008-05-21 09:06:51)

KimTjik · 2008-05-21 09:51:07

I'm at least happy Bérenger isn't my neighbour. Unfortunately Bérenger is killing any ambition someone would have in "improving" things in accordance to a very strict understanding of GLP implementation. It's good that some show dedication, but in this case we certainly need a better spokesman than Bérenger.

I starting to feel pity for Patrick Volkerding, because I'm not so sure he's happy about the attention Bérenger is giving him. All credit to Patrick, but I doubt he feel comfortable about it (or maybe he doesn't care).

On the fun side of the matter: one heck of TV show would to put Bérenger and Ballmer in the same studio!

(Feel free to include this in you update as well Bérenger!)

Allan · 2008-05-21 10:05:11

His moronic rant has actually just jumped leaps and bounds. How the hell did this discussion get extended to us thinking Pat (Slackware) is stupid. Arch users tend to have great respect towards other distros and I can't remember anyone saying overly negative things about Slackware, ever. So that it a massive leap in logic. Just because we don't do something the same way. I don't write a blog. Therefore I conclude Beranger is stupid. Same logic. So it does work in some cases!

Edit: Deleted the rest because I just can be bother dignifying this. Concluding we think Pat is stupid just pissed me off so that stays....

Last edited by Allan (2008-05-21 10:15:12)

tomk · 2008-05-21 10:51:50

A recommendation, from someone who hasn't read the referenced blog, and does not intend to: stop reading it.

I think any relevant point has been made, and our response is clear in the associated bug report. We can all pile in here with our $0.02 about the originating article, or we can see it for what it is, and move on to better things.

kensai · 2008-05-21 12:12:50

cardinals_fan wrote:

Béranger takes a special joy in discovering GPL violations. It's part of his charm. Just smile awkwardly and leave as soon as his back is turned.

Does he, I think he is not that intelligent, someone else does it for him. Also, he is so underbrained that he didn't even answered my question, as to why ssh started by default is a security measure, he just states that OpenBSD does it that way. LOL. Such a pity.

Last edited by kensai (2008-05-21 12:18:37)

Misfit138 · 2008-05-21 12:50:58

Beranger once wrote an Arch review on his blog about 1 1/2 years ago. I commented on it. I found that as long as one was diplomatic and tactful in their reasoning with him, he was respectful in return. However, if one is aggressive toward him, he responds with aggression.
He is obviously an intelligent guy, and if you accept that his motives are inspired by a passion for FOSS, then it may shed light on why his opinions are so strong.
Beranger can be aggressive and blunt, certainly, but don't let him upset you.
Opinions are opinions, after all, and Aaron is aware of the issue.

Cerebral · 2008-05-21 13:09:54

Please stop the personal attacks against Béranger - this is not how we want forum behaviour to be. If this continues I'll lock the thread.

ralvez · 2008-05-21 13:42:54

The first sign of a valuable criticism is the lack of insults and diminishing remarks with facts presented and supported in a well organized fashion. None of these things are seen in the posting by that fellow, so right away we know is just a runt ... I would not pay much attention to it and move on

R.

kensai · 2008-05-21 14:01:32

Misfit138 wrote:

Beranger once wrote an Arch review on his blog about 1 1/2 years ago. I commented on it. I found that as long as one was diplomatic and tactful in their reasoning with him, he was respectful in return. However, if one is aggressive toward him, he responds with aggression.

I disagree, he only allows your comments when he can fight back, I once commented in his blog and he didn't show my post and instead posted that the post was deleted because I was insulting him, which is completely false, yes, he can show the comment and is true what I say.

I wouldn't talk so high about someone that fail to understand basic Linux tasks.

Last edited by kensai (2008-05-21 14:02:21)

KimTjik · 2008-05-21 14:03:24

Misfit138 wrote:

He is obviously an intelligent guy, and if you accept that his motives are inspired by a passion for FOSS, then it may shed light on why his opinions are so strong.
Beranger can be aggressive and blunt, certainly, but don't let him upset you.

He's for sure intelligent, passionate for FOSS, and we could probably add some more positive qualities. I'm actually not upset, but foremost disappointed. In all human activities there's a need for constructive "disturbance" to chase away indifference and complacency. Béranger could well fill a need in this aspect, but his abusive language doesn't help convey the important message, but makes his rants look irrelevant and ludicrous.

Maybe he simply needs to take a break, get distance to both himself and the subject and then start over fresh. At least that what I hope for.

kensai · 2008-05-21 14:07:47

KimTjik wrote:

He's for sure intelligent, passionate for FOSS, and we could probably add some more positive qualities. I'm actually not upset, but foremost disappointed. In all human activities there's a need for constructive "disturbance" to chase away indifference and complacency. Béranger could well fill a need in this aspect, but his abusive language doesn't help convey the important message, but makes his rants look irrelevant and ludicrous.
Maybe he simply needs to take a break, get distance to both himself and the subject and then start over fresh. At least that what I hope for.

Now, I do agree with this. But not on the intelligent part. I mean someone intelligent think of the consequences of everything. He did not, he just posted a trollish blog post without first talking with the Developers to see if this could be corrected in any way. Tell me how that makes one intelligent. Also I never called him idiot or such, he is calling me idiot and in his blog. SO he needs to grow up and start being an intelligent person.

Last edited by kensai (2008-05-21 14:09:03)

fivre · 2008-05-21 14:16:10

I can't understand a word of what he's writing...

Misfit138 · 2008-05-21 14:23:40

kensai wrote:

Misfit138 wrote:
Beranger once wrote an Arch review on his blog about 1 1/2 years ago. I commented on it. I found that as long as one was diplomatic and tactful in their reasoning with him, he was respectful in return. However, if one is aggressive toward him, he responds with aggression.
I disagree, he only allows your comments when he can fight back, I once commented in his blog and he didn't show my post and instead posted that the post was deleted because I was insulting him, which is completely false, yes, he can show the comment and is true what I say.
I wouldn't talk so high about someone that fail to understand basic Linux tasks.

Please don't misunderstand me, I am not talking so highly, I am rather explaining where Beranger is coming from. I could also mention that I disagree with about 80-90% of his views, but arguing with him and slandering him is simply pointless.
I agree with you; he does arbitrarily delete posts, but it's his blog I guess.

He's for sure intelligent, passionate for FOSS, and we could probably add some more positive qualities. I'm actually not upset, but foremost disappointed. In all human activities there's a need for constructive "disturbance" to chase away indifference and complacency. Béranger could well fill a need in this aspect, but his abusive language doesn't help convey the important message, but makes his rants look irrelevant and ludicrous.
Maybe he simply needs to take a break, get distance to both himself and the subject and then start over fresh. At least that what I hope for.

Well said, kimtjik.

hussam · 2008-05-21 14:59:05

I think Béranger and everyone are entitled to their own opinion but distorting facts is not acceptable. Béranger has made it clear more than once that he doesn't like ArchLinux. He has made fun of pacman more than once in the past and not only in his website. He didn't say pacman sucks because it lacks so and so (at least if he states what he thinks is wrong, then pacman developers can fix it) but instead threw some childish remarks. He has also clearly stated more than once that he thinks ArchLinux's packaging format is a ripoff of Slackware's and degraded both distributions.
There is a difference between criticizing something to point out the errors so they can be fixed and personal attacks.

jb · 2008-05-21 16:20:32

INCSlayer wrote:

he is actually reading this thread and editing his moronic rant with insults against people who have posted here
this makes him a petty petty man who needs to grow up

Heh, I just read the latest version. I love how I gave him a new buzz word to use, linked to the definition, and he still successfully failed to use it correctly. Spouting subsections and declaring that to be the violation without any sense of perspective is definitively ignoring the spirit of the law.

Alright, this has become, or rather failed to stop being, unintelligent. I say ignore the extended seizure-on-the-keyboard ramblings that some would call his website, and graciously act on the request of someone who actually contributes to the OSS world who feels we are not complying to the intent of the GPL. If he does not wish to come here to register the complaint, just let him continue to relish in his own self-proclaimed genius over there. But at the very least, I ask he invest in some Venn diagrams before he accuses us of claiming ignorance on someone like Pat.

kensai · 2008-05-21 16:27:12

Well, in fact, it does not affect us, is not like his site has any popular attention. He is just trying to get fame for his site bashing Arch Linux, hoping this will be big.

phrakture · 2008-05-21 17:00:20

Caps lock may be cruise control for cool, but you still have to steer

phrakture · 2008-05-21 17:02:42

One fact that does need to be addressed is that this guy constantly says "Archlinux REFUSES to comply". That is absolutely false, as there was never any refusal. It may be complacency, or laziness, or the fact that we're all just busy, but it is not a refusal.

_Marco_ · 2008-05-21 17:26:50

I've never fully read the GPL licence since I'm nor a programmer nor a lawyer, but what I've always thought is:
"since every patch that is applied over the 'original packages' is in ABS tree, and the 'original packages' are in their developer's site, there is nothing in archlinux that isn't opensource."
I don't understand why this method should have minor value that the "redistribute the source, provide the source upon request, or have express permission from the copyright owners to redistribute it without the source."
Anyway this is just my personal opinion.

stylopath · 2008-05-21 17:47:20

Seems to me like jealousy...

That guy needs to grow up. Seeking attention by starting personal attacks in public is childish.
As well as his attitude towards comments ( "He is right and i find no "kicking" answer - so i delete his post").

If he was intelligent, he would have looked for a dialogue with the developers. He would also have tried to understand the arguments that people gave him.

If he'd be mature, he would be able to tell when he's wrong. Instead of that, he's always looking for a new argument even if it's nothing more than silly because not being applicable on arch.

Hey! I don't WANT sshd to be installed! What now? xD

His next point is probably that archlinux sucks because neither X nor Gnome/KDE is installed by default- HEy! Windows also installs as a whole desktop, as well as ubuntu etc. It's a security feature! YES! Because if you're to stupid to handle your system you can try a silly GUI to do that.... (this is NOT meant as an insult towards users of Ubuntu or other distributions which install a whole DE!)

poor little boy...

dolby · 2008-05-21 18:03:54

Ok, i admit i was wrong. Conversation hurts.

jb · 2008-05-21 18:18:59

_Marco_ wrote:

I've never fully read the GPL licence since I'm nor a programmer nor a lawyer, but what I've always thought is:
"since every patch that is applied over the 'original packages' is in ABS tree, and the 'original packages' are in their developer's site, there is nothing in archlinux that isn't opensource."
I don't understand why this method should have minor value that the "redistribute the source, provide the source upon request, or have express permission from the copyright owners to redistribute it without the source."
Anyway this is just my personal opinion.

Because the GPL was written before that was the norm. At that point, the safest way to ensure the source was never lost was to make everyone providing the binaries host the source as well. But today, SourceForge, BerliOS, Google Code, etc, are so much safer places to host source code that hosting it yourself is nothing more than an exercise in useless redundancy. With his own example, why does mepis tell people to not bother with buying the DVD containing the source code?

Are they:
A.) Anti-GPL proponents that will stop at nothing to stop you from looking at source code they didn't write.
B.) Aware that the interwebs are a much, much, much* more practical and permanent place to get the source than a DVD disc and don't want any of their customers to have to figure this out until after they've wasted the extra $5 or whatever the price difference was.
C.) just listening to Stallman's beard which demanded they do so.

*Remember, to calculate the practicality and permanency listed, muches compound exponentially.

phrakture · 2008-05-21 21:52:12

Hey kids,
I'm already partially on the way to implementing this. Take a look here:
http://dev.archlinux.org/~aaron/sources/

These are generating right now, and it may take some time, so I'm going to dump out core only for now. This is still just testing, but eventually we will have all of these up there.

Neat side effect: Any one of these can be used to fully build any package offline, assuming you have the deps, as it includes all source and build files. Yay

kensai · 2008-05-21 22:00:05

Thanks Beranger for in your stupidity you made Arch Linux have the sources available, or actually work on getting them available. I wonder what will be next, when you need to feel that somebody is visiting your poor trollish blog. What will you take on next? Aaron Griffin's capabilities to lift a car over his head? Are you going to question that?

So please Beranger, instead of calling me idiot and deleting my comments and lying about me insulting you, GROW UP. OMG, capital letters, they make you feel cool.

Nice work there phrakture.

_Marco_ · 2008-05-21 22:16:49

thanks phrakture!
very good work

Arch Linux

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