On the road to KDE 4.1

firewalker · 2008-07-28 10:53:27

The majority of kde 3.5.x users aren't ready to adopt kde 4.x. KDE 4.x is not mature enough. Some user I talked with will leave Arch for Debian testing because kde 4.x creates many problems.

shining · 2008-07-28 11:25:19

Pierre wrote:

* If you start KDM with inittab make sure to change its path from /opt/kde to
/usr

Will there be a new initscripts release for that? Or maybe it could at least be changed now in git, so that this change is not forgotten for the next initscripts release. Anyway, it is really not a big deal, it is just for the sake of polishing things

JaQoB · 2008-07-28 12:01:17

Is Kde 4.1 even released? Since when is RC releases pushed out?

john_schaf · 2008-07-28 12:34:56

Please put KDE4 back to the testing repo.
Archlinux should not force the user to use KDE4 instead of KDE3.
These are two different DEs, and one should not replace the other.
I'm really disappointed that Archlinux stops supporting KDE3...
:(:(:(

Last edited by john_schaf (2008-07-28 12:53:07)

gofree · 2008-07-28 12:50:43

I was thinking to switch to other DE but Gnome neither XFCE are so good as KDE3 ( KDE4 is a big promisse for the future, cant wait for 4.5.9 - sad but true ). Now thinkink to switch distro but which one..dont have time or PC for gentoo and will miss all the stuff in aur.

neowolf · 2008-07-28 12:58:03

While I do think KDE3 should still be an option for users, I don't think moving on to KDE4 should be put off over it forever on the whim of users. Granted I also realize that maintaining two DEs is asking a hell of a lot on the developers too. Though I do admit I'm rather surprised to see it already in extra before the official release! (Though as one of the people on the edge of my seat for it, definitely not inclined to complain!)

DonVla · 2008-07-28 13:02:26

hey guys! kdemod-legacy still uses the 3.5.x releases! it's not the end of the world...
just wait a little and then switch to kdemod, if you really want to stick with kde 3.5.x. it's less work then install another distro.
(what an idea!?)

beomuex · 2008-07-28 13:09:15

I would highly appreciate if the kde4 packages have a prefix to make sure, that the kdemod ones don't get totally removed with a pacman -Syu.
I suggest to keep kde3 for about ½ a year in the repos.Or a better way would be to name the kde4 packages kde4-* (kde4-kdelibs for example).
The problem with kde is, that almost everything changed with kde4.
One the one side the desktop changed (in my opinion in a better, more intuitive way) but on the other side all the programs have a new interface (which is for some people very confusing).
With providing both, kde3 and kde4, packages the user would be able to decide when he or she is ready to change and doesn't get forced by the repo maintainers.

--edit:

DonVla wrote:

hey guys! kdemod-legacy still uses the 3.5.x releases! it's not the end of the world...
just wait a little and then switch to kdemod, if you really want to stick with kde 3.5.x. it's less work then install another distro.
(what an idea!?)

What do you mean exactly?
Is there another version apart of kdemod-kde4 and the "original" kdemod (kde3) version?
At this time,pacman tries to replace my kdemod packages with the kde4 packages from the [extra] repo

Last edited by beomuex (2011-04-09 23:20:17)

quetzyg · 2008-07-28 13:09:46

Hi there!

I really can't understand what the problem is about KDE 4.1. OK, so it's a release candidate, but It's stable!
Some of you prefer the previous version? OK them, just add a hold/ignore (or whatever the option is) pkg in your pacman.conf, and you can upgrade other software without touching your old KDE.
Oh, but KDE 3 is not supported anymore? Fine, use the KDEmod then, and you'll have updates for it.

Or, you could just use another DE.

I agree to a certain point, that maybe, the move to [extra] was a bit quick (even more, because it's a RC), but it would hit [extra] any day soon, so why wait? And I don't see the point to just add it to [extra] when KDE is at version 4.{2,3,4,5}.X, like some of you suggest.

And yes, there should be more plasmoids included!

Just my two cents.

jealma · 2008-07-28 13:12:48

Why not make an official announcement on KDE4.1 (besides the one currently on the frontpage) with a link to a wiki page that explains that [extra] now contains kde4.1 and that kde3.5.9 is available with kdemod. Maybe put some information in that page, regarding how to install kde3 from kdemod. I don't think Archlinux can just switch to KDE4.1 without proper announcement in advance (no, 2 days before moving to extra is not a proper announcement in advance).

beomuex · 2008-07-28 13:20:15

WTF, everybody's writing about kdemod and its support of kde3.
Ever tried to update?

bash-3.2# pacman -Syu
:: Synchronisiere Paketdatenbanken...
 core ist aktuell
 kdemod ist aktuell
 extra ist aktuell
 community ist aktuell
 unstable ist aktuell
:: Starte komplette Systemaktualisierung...
:: libotr durch kdemod/kdemod-libotr ersetzen? [J/n] n
:: gwenview durch extra/kdegraphics ersetzen? [J/n] n
:: gwenview-i18n durch extra/kdegraphics ersetzen? [J/n] n
Löse Abhängigkeiten auf...
Suche nach Zwischen-Konflikten...
:: kdelibs steht im Konflikt mit kdemod-kdelibs. kdemod-kdelibs entfernen? [J/n] n
Fehler: Nicht lösbare Paketkonflikte gefunden
Fehler: Konnte Vorgang (In Konflikt stehende Abhängigkeiten) nicht vorbereiten
:: kdelibs: steht im Konflikt mit kdemod-kdelibs

I think updating would destroy my complete kdemod installation. As you can see, pacman stops his update action because of a conflict between kdelibs and kdemod-kdelibs.

ralvez · 2008-07-28 13:21:33

I usually restrain myself from posting messages that convey a "negative connotation"; but I must say that I concur with the opinions expressed by others that this move of KDE4.1 to extra is premature.

I have several production boxes, like many Arch users, running KDE 3.5 and this upgrade will force me to tinker with all of them. There are times when it is preferable to err in the side of caution, and I think this is one of them; particularly when the transition is acknowledge by at least one developer to be "not smooth" and even worst may invalidate configuration files.

Just my humble opinion.

R.

z0phi3l · 2008-07-28 13:46:46

I'm using KDEMod4 on my lapptop, other than things I never got around to fixing prior, everything works fine.

So really eithr put in the block, or upgrade and try it, but don't take someone else's word that it's "broken" or "not stable"

john_schaf · 2008-07-28 14:06:55

dyscoria wrote:

I predict this thread might continue for weeks to come with people declaring desperately their own reasons for why KDE 4.1 is not ready yet and how you should wait until release X.X before it becomes 'usable' or 'stable' enough for them.

I don't claim it's not "stable" ou "usable" but :

- At the moment, I can't upgrade my kdemod box without replacing kdemod by kde4. Same thing with my plain kde3 box.
- At the moment, using amarok or k3b requires to have kde3 libs installed + kde4.

All this does not feel anymore like the "Arch way" I've been loving !

Last edited by john_schaf (2008-07-28 14:07:40)

ozar · 2008-07-28 14:32:30

Pierre wrote:

KDE 3 has been replaced by 4.1. As usual we don't provide packages in different version (if not really needed). So there will be no KDE3 in official repos.
However: the guyes from kdemod want still provide KDE 3 packages.

Pierre, I want to thank you for all your work on this, and thanks for dropping it into 'extra'.

If KDE 4.1 is truly ready for the masses the way the KDE devs say it is, then it should go into 'extra' as the official KDE release, and KDE 3.5.9 should be now considered out of date, or obsolete, and removed from 'extra'.

Those that don't think it's ready can use it as is, or simply not update their machines until they think it's ready enough for them. I don't personally think it's ready, but I'm using it anyway (with no KDE3 stuff installed) and having some fun playing around with it. I refuse to use the 3.5.x series any further because it clearly has no future, unless the KDE developers decide to give it one, or someone decides to fork it and stay on it.

In the interim, I hope everyone has lots of fun playing with the KDE 4.x series!

neowolf · 2008-07-28 14:33:38

I imagine that once the kdemod people tweak their kdelibs package so that it fufills the role of kdelibs3 the upgrade issues plaguenig the kdemod running folks will go away. Hopefully that won't be too far off. I can't imagine the inability to update every package being that detrimental for only a short while.

shining · 2008-07-28 14:45:52

neowolf wrote:

I imagine that once the kdemod people tweak their kdelibs package so that it fufills the role of kdelibs3 the upgrade issues plaguenig the kdemod running folks will go away. Hopefully that won't be too far off. I can't imagine the inability to update every package being that detrimental for only a short while.

Me neither.
People should just stop whining and be patient.

I don't care much since I don't even use kde currently, but it would be interesting to know if kdemod people are willing to maintain their kde3 version.
So if someone already knows the answer, or can contact them or if they can answer directly, it would at least be more productive.
And what would be even more productive is helping the kdemod team.

Cerebral · 2008-07-28 14:46:06

The move is, admittedly, sudden. However, with any big change, there will always be people who are against it, and there will always be snags. Apparently one big snag is the kdemod / kde4 conflicts, which I'm sure will be resolved shortly.

KDE4 is the way forward, and it was always known that Arch would be replacing KDE 3 with 4.

bearyblue · 2008-07-28 15:15:22

For the record, KDE 4.1 in [extra] is not a release candidate. KDE 4.1 was tagged on July 22. It is to be released tomorrow.

Pierre · 2008-07-28 15:18:43

OK, I'll answer some of the real questions. :-)

First of all: The move seems quite fast for "outsieders" but it was well planned and for a long time. That's why there are no real bug reports about this packages. It was known for very long that KDE 4 will replace version 3. Noone ever complained about this before. (one KDE 4 slogan is '"Don't look back!")

I were and I am still in contact with funkyou from kdemod. As he said the will provide kdemod3 packages and they'll fix the conflict with kde-4 in extra in no time.

The version in extra is no rc; it's the version tagged as 4.1.0. There might be some minor bugfixes (mostly compile fixes) but this version is pretty much the one which will be available on ftp for everyone tomorrow.

Btw: The 4.1.1 bug fix release will be available in the second half of August: so Don't Panic!

quetzyg · 2008-07-28 15:26:25

Pierre wrote:

OK, I'll answer some of the real questions. :-)
First of all: The move seems quite fast for "outsieders" but it was well planned and for a long time. That's why there are no real bug reports about this packages. It was known for very long that KDE 4 will replace version 3. Noone ever complained about this before. (one KDE 4 slogan is '"Don't look back!")
I were and I am still in contact with funkyou from kdemod. As he said the will provide kdemod3 packages and they'll fix the conflict with kde-4 in extra in no time.
The version in extra is no rc; it's the version tagged as 4.1.0. There might be some minor bugfixes (mostly compile fixes) but this version is pretty much the one which will be available on ftp for everyone tomorrow.
Btw: The 4.1.1 bug fix release will be available in the second half of August: so Don't Panic!

Nice to ear that Pierre. Damn good job!

neowolf · 2008-07-28 15:36:41

Question now though, should there be a kdm script under /etc/rc.d/ ?

quetzyg · 2008-07-28 15:39:18

neowolf wrote:

Question now though, should there be a kdm script under /etc/rc.d/ ?

I'm running kdm from inittab. Just had to set the proper path from /opt to /usr

Bogart · 2008-07-28 15:40:56

For the record, I was the first to say that this was a hasty move, but then committed to install and test Kde-4.1. I've done so and played with it for a few hours and my conclusion is that kde-4.1 is still *very* alpha quality software. No ifs, ands or buts. It's a fact.

I'm all for replacing Kde3 for Kde4, We all knew this would happen someday. Obviously. But we all thought that this would happen when Kde4 was ready (now I don't think it will be ready until 4.3.x at least).

Anyway, I guess it's useless to argue. I'm yet to see a single developer from any project who's willing to rollback when they make a decision. I guess that the kdemod guys are our only hope now...

Sad day for Arch Linux. Very sad one indeed...

shining · 2008-07-28 15:41:54

neowolf wrote:

Question now though, should there be a kdm script under /etc/rc.d/ ?

Only if you actually read the announcement.

* If you want to use the KDE desktop make sure you have kdebase-workspace
installed, which includes the kdm, the taskbar etc.

Edit: sorry that was bullshit. As Pierre said, the kdm *rc.d script* is in kde-common. Sorry again

Last edited by shining (2008-07-28 15:51:21)

Arch Linux

#26 2008-07-28 10:53:27

Re: On the road to KDE 4.1

#27 2008-07-28 11:25:19

Re: On the road to KDE 4.1

#28 2008-07-28 12:01:17

Re: On the road to KDE 4.1

#29 2008-07-28 12:34:56

Re: On the road to KDE 4.1

#30 2008-07-28 12:50:43

Re: On the road to KDE 4.1

#31 2008-07-28 12:58:03

Re: On the road to KDE 4.1

#32 2008-07-28 13:02:26

Re: On the road to KDE 4.1

#33 2008-07-28 13:09:15

Re: On the road to KDE 4.1

#34 2008-07-28 13:09:46

Re: On the road to KDE 4.1

#35 2008-07-28 13:12:48

Re: On the road to KDE 4.1

#36 2008-07-28 13:20:15

Re: On the road to KDE 4.1

#37 2008-07-28 13:21:33

Re: On the road to KDE 4.1

#38 2008-07-28 13:46:46

Re: On the road to KDE 4.1

#39 2008-07-28 14:06:55

Re: On the road to KDE 4.1

#40 2008-07-28 14:32:30

Re: On the road to KDE 4.1

#41 2008-07-28 14:33:38

Re: On the road to KDE 4.1

#42 2008-07-28 14:45:52

Re: On the road to KDE 4.1

#43 2008-07-28 14:46:06

Re: On the road to KDE 4.1

#44 2008-07-28 15:15:22

Re: On the road to KDE 4.1

#45 2008-07-28 15:18:43

Re: On the road to KDE 4.1

#46 2008-07-28 15:26:25

Re: On the road to KDE 4.1

#47 2008-07-28 15:36:41

Re: On the road to KDE 4.1

#48 2008-07-28 15:39:18

Re: On the road to KDE 4.1

#49 2008-07-28 15:40:56

Re: On the road to KDE 4.1

#50 2008-07-28 15:41:54

Re: On the road to KDE 4.1

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