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#1 2008-06-24 12:28:02

Atticus
Member
Registered: 2007-06-14
Posts: 52

AMPArch Linux 1.0 Alpha (Update: Alpha 2 as of 6/29)

hi all,

For about the past month and a half or so I've been working on an installable live CD "distribution" based on Arch Linux and the Larch scripts (http://larch.berlios.de).  My goals have changed and broadened, where at the beginning I just hoped to write some configuration scripts that would fully configure a minimal system, when I found Larch I decided to just create the ISO myself, and things moved quickly from there.

AMPArch Linux is one part Arch Linux (2008-04-rc), and one part Larch installable liveCD.  My philosphy is to keep things as simple as possible, have one program for each task, and try not to get in the way too much.  The desktop environment is based on OpenBox, PCManFM (desktop, wallpaper, file manager), PyPanel, and Wbar (quick launcher).  I've included GUI configuration tools where possible, and even written a few GUI utilities of my own for the project, such as amp-calendar (lets you view AND change the system date/time), and amp-exit, a custom exit widget with buttons for shutdown, restart, logout, hibernate, and standby.  In the future, I will provide more such utilities to facilitate doing everyday tasks through the GUI.

Right now, AMPArch is in Alpha stage, which means that everything I have in mind for 1.0 is implemented and working for me, but there may be issues.  I would appreciate it if people could download the ISO, give it a shot (works great in a VM), and tell me what they think.  You can read more and see screenshots at my website:

Website: http://atticus.angryhosting.com/amparch/

Edit:  There is now a torrent up at linuxtorrents.org.  I am currently the only one seeding, at the rate of 30KB/s, so more seeders are welcome wink

Last edited by Atticus (2008-06-29 23:45:45)

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#2 2008-06-24 16:18:49

underpenguin
Member
Registered: 2007-02-01
Posts: 116

Re: AMPArch Linux 1.0 Alpha (Update: Alpha 2 as of 6/29)

Wow, this looks pretty neat. You are using some of my favorite software, so I will give it a shot tomorrow. Any chance you could roll a x64 release?

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#3 2008-06-24 16:33:55

Atticus
Member
Registered: 2007-06-14
Posts: 52

Re: AMPArch Linux 1.0 Alpha (Update: Alpha 2 as of 6/29)

An x86_64 release is definitely possible, but I'm going to stick with i686 for the time being, until I get a stable release.

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#4 2008-06-24 16:47:13

czar
Member
Registered: 2008-03-08
Posts: 115

Re: AMPArch Linux 1.0 Alpha (Update: Alpha 2 as of 6/29)

I'm loading it in VirtualBox and when i try to install it i get an error when it skips to the 3rd step. It says "no disk (-like) devices were found. Can't install Arch linux." Otherwise it looks pretty cool i like the program selection. Maybe there is a more eloquent solution for the "start menu" though. I think when you create a windows-like "start button" like that its disappointing when an open box menu box pops up. I can't think of anything which would be very intuitive though for a newbie other than a kde-panel or the like. But that would take away from the lightweight desktop-ness.

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#5 2008-06-24 17:37:56

Atticus
Member
Registered: 2007-06-14
Posts: 52

Re: AMPArch Linux 1.0 Alpha (Update: Alpha 2 as of 6/29)

hi czar, thanks for testing.  That is a strange error your received in larchin.  I will pass it along to Michael, who writes the larchin installer. 

Regarding the start menu, I agree that the current solution is probably not ideal.  I generally prefer just right-clicking to get the start menu, but I want easy access to PCManFM's preferences/wallpaper chooser, which is only callable either from the PCMan Desktop (by right-clicking) or through the file manager going to the Edit > Preferences menu item.  I've sent in a feature request to make the wallpaper chooser callable from an external command, but I don't know if/when that will get implemented. 

In the meantime, PCMan as a desktop/wallpaper/filemanager is just too good a combination to pass up.  This is the best solution I could think of, but if you have better ideas, I'm open to them.

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#6 2008-06-25 12:40:14

Atticus
Member
Registered: 2007-06-14
Posts: 52

Re: AMPArch Linux 1.0 Alpha (Update: Alpha 2 as of 6/29)

hey guys I just wanted to let you know about a couple of known issues that I'm working on.  I'll be releasing another ISO this coming monday.

- The samba configuration file /etc/samba/smb.conf.default needs to be set to smb.conf, otherwise samba won't work.
- A startup script is setting some sound levels incorrectly.

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#7 2008-06-25 17:47:39

godane
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From: NH, USA
Registered: 2008-02-03
Posts: 241
Website

Re: AMPArch Linux 1.0 Alpha (Update: Alpha 2 as of 6/29)

Thanks for this livecd Atticus.

I just tested it in virtualbox and it think it works great. I going to try to see if the larch or archiso scripts be made to support a modular live cd system. I think the archiso has a better shot at it but i don't know yet. I only say this cause it uses a packages.list file for installing packages. There is also a addons folder for adding other squashfs modules. The problem being you have to list the addons in order for it to work. I can understand the bind mounts being listed but I think the squashfs addons should be able to be found though looking at file extentions. This is done in slax.

I like the slax modular design cause it makes it easier to update or fix problems. The larch or archiso scripts make it look like you have redownload everything and rebuild squahfs files for  the iso for some small update. That is just stupid and it makes it very hard to change some small error. It feels at time some dev like the idea of a knoppix-like livecd. Where if you goof up you have to rebuild the freaking whole iso. sad

I also like the modular design so you can update software more easier. You can just replace the module program not having to rebuild everything is a good thing. It also makes it easier for security updates. This also means firefox and gimp security updates can be done by the user not just the dev. It would also not take hours updating the whole system. big_smile

In closing i like to say your livecd is a great begin start. I just think a modular design livecd is more like linux then a monopoly knoppix-like livecd.

PS Sorry about the long rant. I have OCD so I do a lot of updating everyday. I also use alot of unsupported packages that can't be just added to a list like in larch or archiso.


I'm working on a live cds based on Archlinux. http://godane.wordpress.com/

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#8 2008-06-25 18:00:36

Atticus
Member
Registered: 2007-06-14
Posts: 52

Re: AMPArch Linux 1.0 Alpha (Update: Alpha 2 as of 6/29)

hi godane, thanks for the reply..

I don't have any experience with the other liveCD scripts, so I can't really comment on them.  Overall I feel quite positive about the larch way of doing things.  However, what you say about rebuilding the entire ISO every time is true.  That can be really frustrating, especially because it can take quite a while, and I generally create the ISOs from VirtualBox anyway.

Regarding the unsupported packages, what I've done is I've created a repository on my server (http://atticus.angryhosting.com/repository/i686) and I've built and stored there the packages that I've needed to build myself.  The plus side of this is that users can install/uninstall any of the programs I have in my repository.

Last edited by Atticus (2008-06-25 18:02:15)

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#9 2008-06-25 20:15:42

malagant
Member
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: 2006-09-28
Posts: 13

Re: AMPArch Linux 1.0 Alpha (Update: Alpha 2 as of 6/29)

Playing with it now.  Thanks for your efforts.
I prefer XFCE but this could be a quick way to get a box up & running thanks to your installer.

I'll try to post if I find anything significant.

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#10 2008-06-26 09:37:03

ibendiben
Member
Registered: 2007-10-10
Posts: 519

Re: AMPArch Linux 1.0 Alpha (Update: Alpha 2 as of 6/29)

Godane, Atticus... please form a team. I like godane's modular approach alot. If it can be put in your installable AMPArch, Atticus, together that would make a wonderful compliment to Archlinux...

Last edited by ibendiben (2008-06-26 09:38:29)

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#11 2008-06-27 20:54:40

Atticus
Member
Registered: 2007-06-14
Posts: 52

Re: AMPArch Linux 1.0 Alpha (Update: Alpha 2 as of 6/29)

hi czar, I found out the reason for your error...

When you create a new hard drive with VirtualBox, it doesn't create a partition table of any kind.  Unfortunately, larchin doesn't handle this well, so it just fails and doesn't let you continue.

I've made a fix that checks whether or not a partition table exists, and if it does not, it creates one.  This fix will be in the alpha 2 iso to be released monday.

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#12 2008-06-28 00:22:46

venky80
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Registered: 2007-05-13
Posts: 1,002

Re: AMPArch Linux 1.0 Alpha (Update: Alpha 2 as of 6/29)

Atticus do you have netcfg2 / support for atheros wireless cards...they are f****** pain in the ass

Last edited by venky80 (2008-06-28 03:55:15)


Acer Aspire V5-573P Antergos KDE

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#13 2008-06-28 00:25:17

godane
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From: NH, USA
Registered: 2008-02-03
Posts: 241
Website

Re: AMPArch Linux 1.0 Alpha (Update: Alpha 2 as of 6/29)

I think the best way of doing this is to use archiso scripts used for archlinux livecds. But to do it somethings are going to have to chanage in it to make it into a modular design livecd like slax.

1) Instead of just a packages.list we could just make search for all .list files and make them into there own .sqfs files.

2) Were going to need to add find command to klibc for doing the modular design. This is so we can find all sqaushfs files (to find all .sqfs files) and added them in to unionfs.

3) We need to be able to added/remove modules to/from union when its running. This is so it can work more like a slax system.

4) The base.sqfs will all ways be needed. This so we can have the a base system always on the livecd. Its just going to be the core repo like the normal archlinux live cds. Everything in addons folder wil be added after the base.sqfs file. It would be nice to have the kernel has a sepeate module but I think if you need a custom kernel you can added into the addons or rebuild the base.sfqs.

5) A script be allow users to update the base and addons modules. This is alright done in arch-live with my arch2lzm update option. I also think a updateonly option with timestamp (in module name) could also be nice since it would allow pepole to make a update of all packages in one module. Since everythiing can be overlaped this could be a good way of testing packages in testing without screwing up your system since you can remove module and just reboot to before the module was added.

6) Mount modules form other devices. This is done on arch-live by bind a folder to tmp folder on the cd. Its the only way the linux-live scripts will echo it correctly.

I think this list gives us a good starting point. I also would like to added that we could a initrd-usb.img on the livecd so people don't have to don't have to download it twice. This only makes since cause it would save bandwidth cost and users time downloading it.

I hope this helps.


I'm working on a live cds based on Archlinux. http://godane.wordpress.com/

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#14 2008-06-28 09:21:12

gradgrind
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2005-10-06
Posts: 921

Re: AMPArch Linux 1.0 Alpha (Update: Alpha 2 as of 6/29)

godane wrote:

I think the best way of doing this is to use archiso scripts used for archlinux livecds. But to do it somethings are going to have to chanage in it to make it into a modular design livecd like slax.

I like the slax design as a live system, but I think it might be a little over-complicated for some uses. The module orientation (which certainly has advantages) instead of the package orientation takes it a little further away from the underlying Arch system, which could have disadvantages. I suppose maintenance is then done at the module level?
Are there any consequences of this modular design for data persistence (what I have called session saving in larch)?

godane wrote:

2) Were going to need to add find command to klibc for doing the modular design. This is so we can find all sqaushfs files (to find all .sqfs files) and added them in to unionfs.

3) We need to be able to added/remove modules to/from union when its running. This is so it can work more like a slax system.

Maybe you won't need a klibc based 'find'. If you can implement point 3, I guess you can find and load your various modules after loading a base module with the required utilities.

Alternatively (if you really want to do more fancy stuff in the initramfs) it is possible to use the code within a module from the initramfs environment by mounting it (it doesn't even need to be within a union) and using chroot (together with 'mount -o bind' if necessary). An example for this sort of thing is the way the larch initramfs scripts use tar and lzop from the main system squashfs file. No special klibc versions of these utilities are necessary.

I would also have another question to this modular approach, regarding installation. I note that many (all?) slax/linux-live based distributions do not offer genuine (i.e. equivalent to the original underlying distribution's non-live installer) hard-disk installation. For example, I believe there is some reason or other why it is not really possible (or is it just not recommended?) to install a normal slackware system from slax. Is this inherent in the design? Is it something that can be overcome? I ask because one of the aims of AMPArch and the larch scripts is that the live system can be used to install Arch Linux to hard disk, in a completely equivalent way to the standard Arch installation, but pre-configured to some extent (and thus for some users more conveniently).

But actually this thread was about the existing AMPArch, I think this modular discussion might be a bit off-topic and should probably be done elsewhere.

Last edited by gradgrind (2008-06-28 14:30:00)

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#15 2008-06-29 23:44:32

Atticus
Member
Registered: 2007-06-14
Posts: 52

Re: AMPArch Linux 1.0 Alpha (Update: Alpha 2 as of 6/29)

hi all, I've released a second alpha image (alpha 2) and it is up on the website at http://atticus.angryhosting.com/iso/amp … alpha2.iso.  This is mostly a bugfix release, I wanted to get through issues that had to do with the installation process.  I feel like I've done that, though there are a couple issues that blindraven reported about larchin that I will look into further over the next week or so.

Here is a changelog from the bug tracker:

- 0000003: [Bug] A samba configuration file must be supplied (smb.conf.default -> smb.conf) (Atticus) - resolved.
- 0000004: [Bug] Sound levels not correctly set at bootup (Atticus) - resolved.
- 0000012: [Enhancement] Make AMPArch based on 2008-06 Core (Atticus) - resolved.
- 0000018: [Bug] larchin is reporting "no disk(-like) devices were found..." (Atticus) - resolved.
- 0000020: [Bug] geany default tab size should be 6 instead of 4 (Atticus) - resolved.

I'd like to encourage people to sign up for the bug tracker (mantis) and report bugs.  It is viewable to anonymous users, so you can look at changelogs and roadmaps for future releases.  For the first beta release (around july 9-12), my plan is to try to fix the rest of the larchin issues, make sure all programs are up to date, finish the branding (new wallpaper, start button, etc), and we'll see about anything else.  Once the beta is released I will see about doing a release candidate and then the 1.0 final version (late july).

Thanks all!

Last edited by Atticus (2008-06-29 23:44:56)

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#16 2008-06-30 03:51:01

venky80
Member
Registered: 2007-05-13
Posts: 1,002

Re: AMPArch Linux 1.0 Alpha (Update: Alpha 2 as of 6/29)

Atticus are madwifi drivers in the default install?


Acer Aspire V5-573P Antergos KDE

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#17 2008-06-30 12:30:19

Atticus
Member
Registered: 2007-06-14
Posts: 52

Re: AMPArch Linux 1.0 Alpha (Update: Alpha 2 as of 6/29)

venky80 wrote:

Atticus are madwifi drivers in the default install?

No not in the alpha 2.  I can add them in for the beta, though.

If any other software is missing that people want, just tell me and I can most likely add it (depending on size,etc)

Last edited by Atticus (2008-06-30 12:35:08)

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#18 2008-06-30 15:24:33

venky80
Member
Registered: 2007-05-13
Posts: 1,002

Re: AMPArch Linux 1.0 Alpha (Update: Alpha 2 as of 6/29)

I would assume not having wireless drivers is the biggest problem for me to get my friends to try Arch.
My friend only has wireless and uses a macbook, so without atheros drivers and netcfg2 there is no way for him to connect.


Acer Aspire V5-573P Antergos KDE

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#19 2008-06-30 17:00:36

Atticus
Member
Registered: 2007-06-14
Posts: 52

Re: AMPArch Linux 1.0 Alpha (Update: Alpha 2 as of 6/29)

I understand.  I can have a new ISO up tonight with the new packages.

Edit:  Here is a list of packages I'm planning on adding to the ISO tonight.

atl2
madwifi
b43-fwcutter
bcm43xx-fwcutter
rt2500
ipw2100-fw
ipw2200-fw
ipw3945-ucode
rt2x00-rt61-fw
rt2x00-rt71w-fw
netcfg2

(The packages wireless_tools, ndiswrapper, and wifi-radar are already installed).

If this list is incomplete, or people want other utilities/packages added by tonight, let me know by around 4-5PM EST today.

Last edited by Atticus (2008-06-30 17:12:04)

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#20 2008-06-30 17:56:21

venky80
Member
Registered: 2007-05-13
Posts: 1,002

Re: AMPArch Linux 1.0 Alpha (Update: Alpha 2 as of 6/29)

madwifi-utils package is also needed.
Thank you, i will ask my friend to try it today wink


Acer Aspire V5-573P Antergos KDE

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#21 2008-06-30 18:49:22

Atticus
Member
Registered: 2007-06-14
Posts: 52

Re: AMPArch Linux 1.0 Alpha (Update: Alpha 2 as of 6/29)

Great!  FYI, I didn't mention madwifi-utils because it is a dependency of madwifi and will get added automatically through the livecd creation scripts.

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#22 2008-06-30 20:54:23

Atticus
Member
Registered: 2007-06-14
Posts: 52

Re: AMPArch Linux 1.0 Alpha (Update: Alpha 2 as of 6/29)

I'm building the ISO now.  Should be up on the server in about 2-3 hours.  I'll write a message when it is.

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#23 2008-06-30 23:05:13

Atticus
Member
Registered: 2007-06-14
Posts: 52

Re: AMPArch Linux 1.0 Alpha (Update: Alpha 2 as of 6/29)

The new ISO is up on the server as of 7PM EST.

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#24 2008-07-14 21:33:49

godane
Member
From: NH, USA
Registered: 2008-02-03
Posts: 241
Website

Re: AMPArch Linux 1.0 Alpha (Update: Alpha 2 as of 6/29)

From AMPArch Linux Home Page:
I'm suspending development on AMPArch for the forseeable future. I've spread myself too thin and am trying to cut back on projects. If you are interested in continuing work on this, let me know and I can send you my sources.

Is this project dead Atticus?

PS Can you please send me the source you used? I could still use it for my arch-live project.


I'm working on a live cds based on Archlinux. http://godane.wordpress.com/

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#25 2008-07-17 12:53:57

Atticus
Member
Registered: 2007-06-14
Posts: 52

Re: AMPArch Linux 1.0 Alpha (Update: Alpha 2 as of 6/29)

hi godane, yes I've stopped working on it for the forseeable future.  I needed to cut down on my side projects, and this one was the straw that broke the camel's back wink

If you PM me your email I can send you my sources.

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