Small, cheap NAS box that supports nfs/rsync/ssh ?

Dieter@be · 2008-12-25 12:10:54

Hi all,
for my personal backup needs, I'm looking for a standalone NAS box ("networked hard disk/raid solution"). I need to have support for at least one of rsync/nfs/ssh. (smb/ftp is not enough for me)
It shouldn't be too big (eg not the size of a regular pc.) and it shouldn't cost more then 350 euro or so without disks.
If I can mount one or two sata 1TB disks I'm happy.
Bonus points for solutions where I have total control over the "OS" on it, where the hardware platform exists of standardized easily replacable parts and if it's powerfull enough to do encryption. (I'm prepared to throw in extra cash for these features)

I guess my options are:
1) a product that supports what I want out of the box. I couldn't find that (unless ridiculously expensive, eg 500 euro or more without disks)
2) a product that *almost* does what I want, but where you can install a small Linux distro/freenas over the original firmware so you can do what you want. Basically any appliance (be it a storage device, embedded platforms, network equipment, ...) that can host hard disks and where you can overwrite the OS is worth looking into.
3) building something myself. I've seen some really small motherboards based on Atom cpu's, or even embedded stuff can be enough (something like soekris, pc-engines, etc). But it needs 2 sata ports then, I need to find a housing, a psu, etc. SFF-pc's such as shuttle's etc can also be good options

Any tips, pointers, ideas ?
Thanks

UPDATE:
Here is a list of some devices/urls/thoughts/questions I'm working on. Work in progress! I'll update.
Interesting url's

http://www.hardware.info/nl-NL/productd … S_devices/ off-the-shelf-nas
http://www.mini-itx.com/ all stuff mini-ITX
http://www.epiacenter.com all stuff epia
http://www.logicsupply.com/ mini-itx and SFF resource
http://www.logicsupply.com/matrix/mainboard mainboard matrix
http://www.mini-itx.com/reviews/atoms/ review of 5 Atom mini-itx boards with power comparison between the 2 intel chipsets
http://resources.mini-box.com/online/po … lator.html power calculator (not prepared for Atom though)
http://forums.vr-zone.com/showthread.php?t=275906 power comparison atom vs C2D

Chipsets
TDP's taken from http://download.intel.com/design/proces … 309219.pdf page 399, http://ark.intel.com/chipset.aspx?familyID=28994

type - TDP - usage - url
945 GM /GME express - 7 - used with atoms? - http://www.intel.com/products/notebook/ … erview.htm
945 GMS/GSE express - 6 - used on some atom boards who are not available yet (eg the MSI 9830/9832) - http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/em … /index.htm
945 GC - 22.2 - used on nearly all current atom boards - http://ark.intel.com/chipset.aspx?familyID=28994
945 PM express - 6 - ?
943 GML express - 7 - ?
940 GML express - 7 - ?
945 GT express - 15 - ?
ultra mobile 945GU express - 5 - ?
G45 - 24 - "rich media" socket 775 boards - http://www.intel.com/Assets/PDF/designguide/319972.pdf
Q45 - 17 - "business" socket 775 boards - http://www.intel.com/Assets/PDF/designguide/319972.pdf
P45 - 22 - ?? - http://www.intel.com/Assets/PDF/designguide/319972.pdf

TDP's of complete systems

type - TDP idle - TDP loaded cpu - TDP loaded cpu+video - source url
945 GSE setup without HDD - 15 - 17 - ? - http://www.mini-itx.com/reviews/atoms/
945 GC setup without HDD - 25 - 27 - ? - http://www.mini-itx.com/reviews/atoms/
945 GC (and ich7) full setup - 27 - 31 - 38 - http://www.silentpcreview.com/article865-page5.html
G45 Express + C2D E6400 65nm full setup - 49 - 97 - 98 - http://www.silentpcreview.com/article869-page5.html
G45 Express + C2D E7200 45nm full setup - 35 - 64 - 65 - http://www.silentpcreview.com/article869-page5.html

Off-the-shelf NAS

* LaCie Ethernet Disk mini: needs to connect to internet to activate? or is this only for the remote feature? can you run custom OS on it?
* ximeta ndas seems to need special/proprietary drivers/calls to be able to use it?
* linksys nas200
seems pretty customizable. some 3rd party firmwares
http://www.linksysinfo.org/forums/showt … hp?t=60232
http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/NAS200/Hardware
http://www.iomega-europe.com/section?SI … ecid=40380 (nslu2 firmwares)
slow: 3MB/s over 100Mbps
slower then dlink and qnap. see http://www.trustedreviews.com/networkin … -NAS200/p2
* intel SS4000E or something?
* qnap ts-509 or other qnap?
http://www.qnap.com/pro_detail_feature.asp?p_id=86 -> 480euro
http://www.qnap.com/pro_detail_feature.asp?p_id=104 -> 800 euro
* iomega storcenter
* netgear readynas: they have decent pricy ones who are big and consuming as much as an atom based server or something.
they also have smaller ones.:
2disk 310euro
4disk -> 1000 euro
http://www.netgear.nl/producten/product … od=RND2150 -> 300 euro
6disk http://www.netgear.nl/producten/product … d=RNDP6610 -> runs on an intel C2D -> 1500euro
* dlink
* thermaltake muse looks pretty cool http://www.xpcgear.com/n0001lnu.html 390 euro http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/149904/t … -wit).html
* synology has lots of stuff. eg http://www.synology.com/enu/products/CS407/index.php
http://www.synology.com/enu/products/DS207+/index.php -> 285 euro
http://www.synology.com/enu/products/DS408/index.php -> 510+ euro
http://www.synology.com/enu/products/DS508/index.php -> 800+ euro
* hp
http://www.hp.com/united-states/campaig … martserver

DIY-style (TODO: look up motherboards, enclosures, etc) miniITX, arm, via, intel atom,...

* info/tutorials
** http://blogs.sun.com/paulie/entry/zfs_n … _the_intel
** http://www.mashie.org/casemods/udat2.html (note: the 5disks into 3 bays thing is discontinued)
* complete boxes/barebones:
** Asus eeebox: perfect except that it can only contain 1 disk, of the format of 2.5"
** http://www.norcotek.com/DS-520.php 5x hotswap sata. Celeron, 2x Gbps,... looks great although very hard to get in EU apparently + you're bound to custom motherboard etc
** Shuttle XPC X27D dualcore atom, 1x 2.5 hdd. but 645GC http://loveno.be/product/16866
* motherboard/cpu combos
** http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/mainb … ard_id=610 Via C7 1.5Ghz, 4-8x sata, padlock engine, via gigabit controller. CF and miniPCI slot, 1xddr2
** http://www.intel.com/Products/Desktop/M … erview.htm . Atom 230 1.6Ghz. 1x IDE, 2x sata. only 100Mbit/s, 1x PCI, 1xddr2
** MSI MS-9830. fanless. 2x Gigabit. 2x sata. available yet?
** MSI MS-9832. http://www.logicsupply.com/products/ms_9832 2x Gbps, 4x sata. 1x ata. expected 1/20/2008
** Intel D945GCLF2 -> like D945GCLF, but dualcore,Gigabit.
** Intel DG45FC http://www.intel.com/Products/Desktop/M … erview.htm socket775, 4x sata, 2x Gbps,... -> based on intel G45 "media center" chip (eg more media features), but same price as DQ45EK !
** Intel DQ45EK http://support.intel.com/Products/Deskt … erview.htm socket775, 4xsata,Gigabit. -> based on intel Q45 "business" chip. perfect for the chenbro case, except no 5th sata (unless i loop the esata back in) or ide for the 5th 2.5" disk
** http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=3& … odelmenu=1 Similar, but more media-features and 6x sata
** Jetway J7F4K1G5D-PB. Via C7. 2X Gbps, 2x sata 150, 1x ata 100
** Epia SN xx -> various epia boards with 4x sataII

* cases
** http://usa.chenbro.com/corporatesite/pr … ?serno=100 (nice mini ITX server case with 4x hotswap bays and PSU) (just make sure you have good AHCI suppport) 170euro
** http://www.xpcgear.com/pcv350b.html Lian-Li PC-V350B , 2x 5,5", 2x 3.5", microATX

Notes
* I heard via Epia is rather expensive especially for it's quite low performance
* Via nano might be a good platform (must google more for this, stable?)
* There are no Atom boards with more then 2 sata ports. (the msi's still are to be expected)
* Taking an intel board with a slow celeron / amd with sempron can be an option, it will be fast , stable and not expensive. I'm told it wouldn't pull too much power either. (although more then atom/epia)
* "ready-to-go" SFF-pc's/barebones can be found in the <300 euro price range, making this a good target for a simple 1/2-disk NAS
* AHCI problems with AMD/ATI RS400-200, RS480 HBA and Nvidia nForce 560. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_H … _Interface
* An intel G45/Q45-based system would be sweet, they have
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_In … _Factor.29
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_In … C_45_nm.29
with very low TDP, but they don't fit in socket 775

Last edited by Dieter@be (2009-01-30 10:11:53)

litemotiv · 2008-12-25 14:19:19

this is one of the more affordable solutions: D-Link DNS-323

it has some built-in backup/management tools, but you can also bootstrap it with optware ipkg so you can install every other useful tool you need

Super Jamie · 2008-12-25 22:44:39

Look at the QNAP NAS boxes, the TS109/209/etc supports ssh, though the rest of the linux distro and apps on it sucks.

Personally, I'd just get an Asus EEE Box, put a big hard drive in it, and install a minimal Arch or Ubuntu server. You can do heaps with it then.

AlbaTiVo · 2008-12-26 01:39:22

My server is a Pentium II with a 500GB drive in it running NASLite, which is free. You have tons of options.

lambretta · 2008-12-26 01:40:10

I am in the same position (looking for a small, cheap NAS).

I agree with litemotiv. The DNS-323 is what I think I will be getting. Research fun_plug, it will no doubt do what you need.

Dieter@be · 2008-12-26 13:49:07

Thanks for the advice, I've been working on some sort of listing/comparison of available devices I could find. I'll update post #1

Super Jamie: eeebox would indeed be a good fit. too bad it only supports a 2.5" disk.

Dieter@be · 2008-12-26 16:43:37

Woooaaa....
http://usa.chenbro.com/corporatesite/pr … ?serno=100 (mini-itx case with 4x sata hotswap)
http://www.norcotek.com/DS-520.php (similar, but smaller, and comes with mainboard, cpu etc)

Cheesebaron · 2008-12-26 17:36:45

QNAP NAS's now support installation of debian on them. So if you are looking for a NAS that does everything you want, I'd go with either that, or build one myself.

tam1138 · 2008-12-26 18:59:57

User reviews of the DNS-323 on Newegg fail to instill me with confidence.

litemotiv · 2008-12-26 23:10:28

tam1138 wrote:

User reviews of the DNS-323 on Newegg fail to instill me with confidence.

well it's cheap, you get what you pay for. the more expensive competitors like the QNAP and Synology models (i own a DS207+ myself) are better but at roughly twice the price. those also have better (proprietary) software and some interesting hot-raid swapping/rebuilding patents implemented. in the end though i think it's hard to beat the d-link (and the technically identical conceptronic ch3nas) at the price point.

Dieter@be · 2008-12-27 10:48:49

Off-the-shelf:
http://www.qnap.com/pro_detail_feature.asp?p_id=86 -> 480euro
http://www.qnap.com/pro_detail_feature.asp?p_id=104 -> 800 euro
http://www.synology.com/enu/products/DS207+/index.php -> 285 euro
http://www.synology.com/enu/products/DS408/index.php -> 510+ euro
http://www.synology.com/enu/products/DS508/index.php -> 800+ euro
http://www.netgear.nl/producten/product … od=RND2150 -> 300 euro

DIY style:
http://www.chenbro.com/corporatesite/pr … ?serno=100 (case+psu) 170euro
I couldn't find an atom board with 4 sata slots, so via epia ones or intel celeron/amd sempron might be an option. the boards vary between 100-200 euro, cpu (if not onboard <45 euro)

So unless the dlink/synology/qnap/... have a decent mainbord, cpu and the ability to run my OS of choice I'll go DIY

Last edited by Dieter@be (2008-12-27 14:44:21)

deadrabbit · 2008-12-31 05:47:55

I recently bought an MSI Wind desktop, with pretty much the same thing in mind. I ended deciding against a NAS enclosure, since I wanted to be able to install a conventional Linux distro, and have complete control over it. The Wind is cheap, and all the hardware is Linux compatible (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a … 6856167032). I ended up installing the OS on a CompactFlash card, so the hard drive would have to run constantly. As a result, it's nice and quite, uses little power, and the OS on the CF card is automatically backed up to the hard drive. I wrote up a detailed description of the project here: http://rockhoppernotes.blogspot.com/200 … sktop.html.

Dieter@be · 2008-12-31 10:11:57

deadrabbit wrote:

I recently bought an MSI Wind desktop, with pretty much the same thing in mind. I ended deciding against a NAS enclosure, since I wanted to be able to install a conventional Linux distro, and have complete control over it. The Wind is cheap, and all the hardware is Linux compatible (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a … 6856167032). I ended up installing the OS on a CompactFlash card, so the hard drive would have to run constantly. As a result, it's nice and quite, uses little power, and the OS on the CF card is automatically backed up to the hard drive. I wrote up a detailed description of the project here: http://rockhoppernotes.blogspot.com/200 … sktop.html.

Thanks, looks quite good.

Except one thing: the 945GC chipset has a TDP of 22.2W.. that's stupid imo, and defeats the whole purpose of a low-tdp cpu such as the Atom. Right now I'm still doubting between waiting for an Atom board based on the 945GM(S)/945GSE chip (TDP 6Watt) (eeebox has that one, some MSI mini-ITX boards should be available in january) or going for a socket775 board with an intel core2 45nm cpu, which would consume not much more then Atom+ 945GC chipset (when idle, loaded is much more but I don't plan to load it ).

Nvidia is also working on an Atom chipset but I don't think I'll wait for that.

Hrod beraht · 2008-12-31 18:15:24

Dieter@be wrote:

Bonus points for solutions where I have total control over the "OS" on it, where the hardware platform exists of standardized easily replacable parts and if it's powerfull enough to do encryption.

That sounds like a basic PC with Linux on it
In my experience, the NAS solutions seem appealing as a simple and efficient solution, but they all seem to make compromises and are limited in one way or another. The ones that are less limited tend to just be too expensive. On the other hand, with an actual PC where you install the OS and SSH/SSHFS and whatever else you want, you don't have to work around the limitations of a single-purpose box.

Bob

pyther · 2008-12-31 19:37:14

I got an atom 1.6ghz 270 which I use for everday computing and it does just fine, so you won't have a problem using an atom as a server.
My rig uses only 31watts of power!

rwd · 2009-03-28 14:13:46

Sorry to digg up this months old thread but I'm basically looking for the same thing as the OP, with the addition of 808.11n wi-fi. So I'm curious which options are worth investigating. But buying a new box with an energy efficient chipset probably costs more overall than turning an old unused laptop into a server, even though it uses more power.

Last edited by rwd (2009-03-31 17:05:11)

rwd · 2009-03-28 14:14:20

[deleted]

Last edited by rwd (2009-03-28 14:14:38)

tkdfighter · 2009-03-28 16:26:52

rwd wrote:

Sorry to digg up this months old thread but I'm basically looking for the same thing as the OP, with the addition of 808.11n wi-fi. So I'm curious which options are worth investigating. But buying a new box with an energy efficient chipset would probably costs more overall than turning an old unused laptop into a server, even though it uses more power.

Considering that it takes massive amounts of power to produce chips, it would make sense to just do as you suggested. As for me, I'm using my old desktop with a cheapo silent graphics card running FreeBSD. ZFS works wonders

aquateen · 2009-03-29 08:38:27

I too am looking for something along the same lines. However, I need to have true hardware RAID; RAID 1 will be fine. From what I understand many of these motherboards that claim to have RAID actually have more of a software RAID, My goal is to setup a mini server, but I want to use one of the free virtualization options (XenSource, Vmware, etc.) so that I can setup multiple servers (Ampache and FTP). This will also allow me learn Linux and virtualization management more in depth. I won't need a GUI (thanks to SSH) but I would imagine my power consumption is going to be a little higher than whats mentioned here; especially if the only way to get true hardware RAID is through a PCI or PCIe addin card (not that big of deal for me). What do you think, is too much to expect from one of these little boxes or is it even possible?

Thanks

Dieter@be · 2009-03-29 10:49:39

aquateen wrote:

I too am looking for something along the same lines. However, I need to have true hardware RAID; RAID 1 will be fine. From what I understand many of these motherboards that claim to have RAID actually have more of a software RAID, My goal is to setup a mini server, but I want to use one of the free virtualization options (XenSource, Vmware, etc.) so that I can setup multiple servers (Ampache and FTP). This will also allow me learn Linux and virtualization management more in depth. I won't need a GUI (thanks to SSH) but I would imagine my power consumption is going to be a little higher than whats mentioned here; especially if the only way to get true hardware RAID is through a PCI or PCIe addin card (not that big of deal for me). What do you think, is too much to expect from one of these little boxes or is it even possible?
Thanks

hardware raid only pays off if you have intensive parity calculations (eg raid 5 and 6) and you need the performance. at that point you shouldn't even buy any "hardware" raid controller because many still offload parity calculation. Decent controllers with good parity calculations cost more. But raid 0/1 is not intensive at all and you won't even see a difference in software vs hardware, so let Linux do it.

aquateen · 2009-03-29 16:25:04

Thanks for the quick reply Dieter. Yea, after I posted I did some more reading and everything I found says the same thing you mentioned; so I'm gonna do what you said and use the onboard or software RAID. Any recommendations of micro ATX/ITX mobos that will work well with Xensource or Vmware ESXi?

Pudge · 2009-03-29 20:12:20

aquateen wrote:

Any recommendations of micro ATX/ITX mobos that will work well with Xensource or Vmware ESXi?

I recently bought this mini ITX mother board.

I was really impressed with it. It has a lot of BIOS options for a mini ITX. It has two 1066 RAM slots, most ITX only have one 800 RAM slot. It has 4 SATA ports. It has a Nvidia chipset so it's Linux friendly.

One possible con, to get two RAM slots they eliminated the IDE connector. If you don't need PATA, not a problem.

I put this 45 WATT 2.6 Ghz processor in it. Teamed it up with an Antec Earthwatts 80 plus PSU. It draws more power than an ATOM, but it is a lot more powerful. I connected the system to my Kill-A-Watt, and it pulls 60 Watts from the outlet. At $.10 per Kilowatt hour, it would cost $4.30 a month running 24 X 7.

Haven't run it with Xensource or VMware, so can't help you there.

Pudge

Tinuva · 2009-03-31 11:03:07

Why don't you just use FreeNAS ?

http://www.freenas.org/ - opensource, based on FreeBSD, supports smb/ftp/rsync/nfs/i-scsi and a bunch of other stuff.
Can do raid in software or hardware and a bunch of other gazillion options, heck you can even use zfs as your filesystem.

Nother alternative is http://www.openfiler.com/ which also has a opensource or free version if I am not mistaken.

Of coarse with this you have the built the pc, which you can do for real cheap, unless you physically do want it to be a seperate device instead of another pc...

Dieter@be · 2009-03-31 11:38:16

Well the software is not much of a problem. Sure i can use freenas or hell, even Arch.

Finding the perfect hardware (low power consumption, reasonably powerfull, replaceable parts etc, not too big) is just harder to find.

PJ · 2009-03-31 15:09:15

Not sure if these urls are interesting but I post those anyway:

http://blog.nas-central.org/
http://www.nas-central.org/wiki/Main_Page
nas-central.org - Collection of NAS-Hacking communities

I am also looking for a similar NAS, will be interesting to follow this thread since I haven't made my decision yet.

Last edited by PJ (2009-03-31 15:18:52)

Arch Linux

#1 2008-12-25 12:10:54

Small, cheap NAS box that supports nfs/rsync/ssh ?

#2 2008-12-25 14:19:19

Re: Small, cheap NAS box that supports nfs/rsync/ssh ?

#3 2008-12-25 22:44:39

Re: Small, cheap NAS box that supports nfs/rsync/ssh ?

#4 2008-12-26 01:39:22

Re: Small, cheap NAS box that supports nfs/rsync/ssh ?

#5 2008-12-26 01:40:10

Re: Small, cheap NAS box that supports nfs/rsync/ssh ?

#6 2008-12-26 13:49:07

Re: Small, cheap NAS box that supports nfs/rsync/ssh ?

#7 2008-12-26 16:43:37

Re: Small, cheap NAS box that supports nfs/rsync/ssh ?

#8 2008-12-26 17:36:45

Re: Small, cheap NAS box that supports nfs/rsync/ssh ?

#9 2008-12-26 18:59:57

Re: Small, cheap NAS box that supports nfs/rsync/ssh ?

#10 2008-12-26 23:10:28

Re: Small, cheap NAS box that supports nfs/rsync/ssh ?

#11 2008-12-27 10:48:49

Re: Small, cheap NAS box that supports nfs/rsync/ssh ?

#12 2008-12-31 05:47:55

Re: Small, cheap NAS box that supports nfs/rsync/ssh ?

#13 2008-12-31 10:11:57

Re: Small, cheap NAS box that supports nfs/rsync/ssh ?

#14 2008-12-31 18:15:24

Re: Small, cheap NAS box that supports nfs/rsync/ssh ?

#15 2008-12-31 19:37:14

Re: Small, cheap NAS box that supports nfs/rsync/ssh ?

#16 2009-03-28 14:13:46

Re: Small, cheap NAS box that supports nfs/rsync/ssh ?

#17 2009-03-28 14:14:20

Re: Small, cheap NAS box that supports nfs/rsync/ssh ?

#18 2009-03-28 16:26:52

Re: Small, cheap NAS box that supports nfs/rsync/ssh ?

#19 2009-03-29 08:38:27

Re: Small, cheap NAS box that supports nfs/rsync/ssh ?

#20 2009-03-29 10:49:39

Re: Small, cheap NAS box that supports nfs/rsync/ssh ?

#21 2009-03-29 16:25:04

Re: Small, cheap NAS box that supports nfs/rsync/ssh ?

#22 2009-03-29 20:12:20

Re: Small, cheap NAS box that supports nfs/rsync/ssh ?

#23 2009-03-31 11:03:07

Re: Small, cheap NAS box that supports nfs/rsync/ssh ?

#24 2009-03-31 11:38:16

Re: Small, cheap NAS box that supports nfs/rsync/ssh ?

#25 2009-03-31 15:09:15

Re: Small, cheap NAS box that supports nfs/rsync/ssh ?

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