On the road to KDE 4.1

attila · 2008-07-30 12:06:31

AKL wrote:

I'm a newby to Linux, just switched from Windows to Arch at our home office, so may be I'm not familiar enough with social interaction 'the Arch way', but I'm really disapointed from what I'm reading from some of the developers and maintainers, who basically say that everyone who is complaining about the way the update was done is just a whining, selfish kind of person, only demanding from the community, not giving back something. Some of the developers "personally don't care".

This is typical at the moment for the KDE4 discussions around the web but luckily not typical for the most discussions in the archlinux areas. I don't know too why we be whiners or trolls if we don't like kde4 at the moment as it is.

@Allan Good decision

MONODA · 2008-07-30 12:13:18

how would one go about moving from kde 3.5 to kdemod3?

Cerebral · 2008-07-30 12:18:31

Zaphkiel wrote:

Why don't packagers admit their mistake? They just screwed up this time. It's not that bad. What's really bad is they're treating us like idiots that whine because we loved soooo much that kde3-color-scheme instead of the kde4 one. This is lack of respect and there are no excuses for it.

AKL wrote:

I'm really disapointed from what I'm reading from some of the developers and maintainers, who basically say that everyone who is complaining about the way the update was done is just a whining, selfish kind of person, only demanding from the community, not giving back something. Some of the developers "personally don't care".

...where are you guys seeing ANY developers saying anything you claim they say? I've just re-read the WHOLE thread, and every developer post has been respectful and helpful.

aely · 2008-07-30 12:27:20

MONODA wrote:

how would one go about moving from kde 3.5 to kdemod3?

Even though the installation guide on kdemod homepage is marked outdated I think the Step 1 is still valid: You have to remove the existing kde installation and then install kdemod3.

Edit: Oh, it's mentioned in here: http://kdemod.ath.cx/bbs/viewtopic.php?id=892 . Just follow the instructions

Last edited by aely (2008-07-30 12:29:29)

atordo · 2008-07-30 12:34:47

MONODA wrote:

how would one go about moving from kde 3.5 to kdemod3?

See this announce: http://kdemod.ath.cx/bbs/viewtopic.php?id=892
It was explained with more detail here: http://kdemod.ath.cx/installation.html
but now it's outdated. The repo you want to use is the one mentioned in the first link and the prefix for the packages is now kdemod3.

Also, I don't recall having read it, but I'd suggest to do the migration in pure console. I did it that way with no problems.

AKL · 2008-07-30 12:57:18

Cerebral wrote:

...where are you guys seeing ANY developers saying anything you claim they say? I've just re-read the WHOLE thread, and every developer post has been respectful and helpful.

We are getting slightly OT and I hope this thread doesn't get locked, but since you asked:

Cerebral wrote:

Whiners should not talk like this to developers.

dolby wrote:

I remember people BEGGING tpowa to provide KDE 4 when it was first announced.
Half year later the same people say the inclusion of KDE 4 was not what they wanted, it happened too fast & they wanna stay with the older version.
LOL

shining wrote:

I disagree with all the whining [...]
I don't know, maybe that would let more time for the users to prepare psychologically to that change or whatever, and that could reduce the whining a bit.
So now all people whining and complaining can just stop doing that [...]

funkyou wrote:

Most people complaining here never did anything to contribute, they just whine...
We are 3 devs working on packages and we have currently about 600 packages to maintain, so if you dont contribute or want to help in any way, you better be quiet and just wait, because everything else is just unproductive and makes us answer questions instead of doing what we can do best

MONODA · 2008-07-30 12:57:57

thanks but I keep getting:

error: failed retrieving file 'kdemod.db.tar.gz' from kdemod.ath.cx : Not Found
error: failed to synchronize kdemod: Not Found

whenever I try to pacman -Syy. Is anyone else getting this?

Gonzakpo · 2008-07-30 13:08:42

MONODA wrote:

thanks but I keep getting:
error: failed retrieving file 'kdemod.db.tar.gz' from kdemod.ath.cx : Not Found
error: failed to synchronize kdemod: Not Found
whenever I try to pacman -Syy. Is anyone else getting this?

Read this: http://kdemod.ath.cx/bbs/viewtopic.php?id=893

shining · 2008-07-30 13:10:02

AKL wrote:

We are getting slightly OT and I hope this thread doesn't get locked, but since you asked:

IIRC, the only official archlinux developer who participated in this thread is Pierre, to which all complaints were directed because he is the one who did all the hard work of packaging kde4.

AKL · 2008-07-30 13:18:41

In this case I was mislead by the titles below the usernames and I apologize. But "Veteran Programmer Extraordinaire" looks pretty official to a newbie like me.

MONODA · 2008-07-30 13:38:30

thanks, i had to rename [kdemod] to [kdemod-legacy] in pacman.conf

shining · 2008-07-30 14:38:49

AKL wrote:

In this case I was mislead by the titles below the usernames and I apologize. But "Veteran Programmer Extraordinaire" looks pretty official to a newbie like me.

To be honest, I don't even know who chose that title for me. I know some basics of C and Java and that's pretty much all, and I still consider myself a newbie in both, so...
Anyway, that is totally off-topic and real forum moderators already gave several warnings.

For me, kde4 is working flawlessly but as I said earlier, I have a very basic usage and use a very very limited subset of its apps and features
The only little annoyance I had is a slightly buggy sound transition effect in Juk (the transition is not smooth), but not a big deal.

MONODA · 2008-07-30 16:20:25

so how have people found kde 4 to be? does it work well? Have you experienced any crashes with any apps?

dolby · 2008-07-30 16:59:09

The KDE developers made a choice. Doesnt KDE have a forum ? You should be talking about it there.
This thread is absolutely pointless here and its bound to lead to a flamewar against the developers & especially Pierre.
KDE 4.1 is now the default KDE on Archlinux now.
If you dont like it , use GNOME or XFCE or some other thing.
Thats why we use linux, and OSS in general. We like having a choice.
Please close this and all other threads like this.

Last edited by dolby (2008-07-30 16:59:45)

DonVla · 2008-07-30 16:59:58

kdeblutooth doesn't work and i cannot logout from kde to kdm. i always have to restart the xservewr. and i miss kprinter.
my problems so far.

DonVla · 2008-07-30 17:05:14

dolby wrote:

Please close this and all other threads like this.

???

dunc · 2008-07-30 17:14:46

neowolf wrote:

Bogart wrote:
Is anyone else seeing that KDE-4.1 uses a lot of memory, one reason being that when you close apps they don't really get closed? For example, I open konqueror, kopete and kmail. Then I close them all. I type on a terminal "ps -A" and see the processes still there (along with many kio_file and kio_http). All I can do is kill them every time.
Is it just me?
Not just you I'm afraid. I'll admit things are feeling a bit rough.

Yup. Same thing here. It'll be nice when it's finished.

(Still, it turns out the only KDE app I use regularly that's actually been ported to KDE4 is Konqueror; all the rest still use 3.5 - digiKam, KMyMoney... - and kdelibs3 keeps them happy, so I think I'll stick with the update rather than switch to kdemod, use Opera in the meantime, and block any further updates to the remaining KDE3 stuff for the moment.)

Edit for the record, since this thread is veering wildly off-topic and I didn't want to add another post: Actually, I did switch to KDEMod in the end. Unlike a lot of people here, if I was using the KDE desktop itself I'd probably have stayed with 4: I find it a lot tidier and just generally nicer than 3. But since I'm not, it just seemed "cleaner" to switch back. I get a Konqueror that behaves itself, and KAudioCreator. Once more of the "semi-detached" apps like K3b etc. are ported over, I'll have no qualms at all about upgrading.

Last edited by dunc (2008-08-03 00:28:15)

shining · 2008-07-30 17:19:34

Now that is weird.
When I ran locale, it still displayed that all locale environment variables were set to fr_FR.utf8
But every localized programs I ran were in english. How the hell is that possible?

It took me some time to realize this happened after switching to kde(4), So when I did, I just when to the Regional settings, where it said the locale was set to english. I changed it to french and all is fine now. But still...
How is kde4 able to overwrite the locale for every programs, but the "locale" command does not see it?

cromo · 2008-07-30 19:16:15

I have to second the voice of people who say all this switch to kde4 was a bit too fast. What I am a bit disappointed is that the transition was not planned to be a bit smoother. It just doesn't feel "professional', seriously. Since arch devs decided not to support kde3 officialy I wonder why at least they didn't speak to kdemod guys and didn't come up with a good transition solution. It would be great if users were allowed to choose beteen official kde4 from [extra] and unofficial kde3 from kdemod guys. This way everybody would be happy. Even more if it was possible to keep both at the same time.

Just my 2c. And please, don't take it as an offense. This is just an opinion.

Last edited by cromo (2008-07-30 19:30:02)

skottish · 2008-07-30 19:21:50

cromo wrote:

It would be great if users were allowed to choose beteen official kde4 from [extra] and unofficial kde3 from kdemod guys.

What's stopping you? This has already been handled by the KDEmod people.

cromo · 2008-07-30 19:32:53

What's stopping you? This has already been handled by the KDEmod people.

I know we have that possibility now. But what I meant is that it would be great if arch dev's waited for kdemod guys and jointly release notice about upcoming kde4 update and the upgrade options available.

EDIT: There is also one more thing no one I think mentioned previously. That kind of sudden update made all the AUR kde3-related packages outdated and unusable. So for many users this update was not really smooth when comes to AUR. Take the kpowersave packages which I happen to maintain for exaple. Kpowersave is fairly popular yet I found out about the kde3 upgrade only today. I am not even sure what am I supposed to do now with PKGBUILDs. Some people want to use it with kde4, some others with kdemod's kde3. Should I maintain two versions or what? How are the kdelibs depends changed? And so on. I feel a bit uncomfortable about this situation and I guess I am not the only one. I just would like to be informed a bit earlier what to do and have time to do it.

Last edited by cromo (2008-07-30 19:42:12)

kensai · 2008-07-30 21:36:48

AKL wrote:

Cerebral wrote:
...where are you guys seeing ANY developers saying anything you claim they say? I've just re-read the WHOLE thread, and every developer post has been respectful and helpful.
We are getting slightly OT and I hope this thread doesn't get locked, but since you asked:

Cerebral wrote:
Whiners should not talk like this to developers.

You got your quotation wrong, and yeah I did said that, and I am sorry, sometimes when you closely watch the hard work of someone to get something right and then he gets a lot of heat for it. I know my selection of words is not always the best, but I do try to apologize everytime I do select the wrong words. Anyways, this is my second public apologie, and I hope is the last.

Brandybuck · 2008-07-30 23:32:35

1) When I said "stable", I wasn't referring to something like ultraconservative Debian Stable, but more like Slackware. I did not realize Archlinux was considered the bleeding edge. I'm originally a FreeBSD user, and I have a hard time figuring out the differences between distros.

2) I'm not objecting to KDE4. Hell, I'm a KDE4 developer! What I am objecting to is the either/or solution Archlinux has provided, and the complete lack of a real transistion period. (Putting something in testing for a couple of weeks is not a transition).

3) And yes, I am seriously considering leaving. I'm not dense, I get the hint. I'm not wanted.

fwojciec · 2008-07-31 00:22:04

Brandybuck: I think the way KDE4 was pushed to [extra] was not in any way unusual. This is what Arch is like. Big updates come along every once in a while, and then for a few days all hell breaks loose on the forums, relatively speaking, with (few, albeit persistent) people complaining and threatening to leave Arch, and then it all quietens down again. We're used to the routine.

It's not a matter of you being wanted here or not. I can't imagine, in fact, that anyone here has particularly strong feelings about it either way (I mean no offense, just being realistic). I'd say, use the distro that fits your preferences and does things the way you're comfortable with: if it's Arch -- great, if not -- no hard feelings, and "you'll be back"™

skottish · 2008-07-31 00:29:03

fwojciec wrote:

Brandybuck: I think the way KDE4 was pushed to [extra] was not in any way unusual. This is what Arch is like. Big updates come along every once in a while, and then for a few days all hell breaks loose on the forums, relatively speaking, with (few, albeit persistent) people complaining and threatening to leave Arch, and then it all quietens down again. We're used to the routine.
It's not a matter of you being wanted here or not. I can't imagine, in fact, that anyone here has particularly strong feelings about it either way (I mean no offense, just being realistic). I'd say, use the distro that fits your preferences and does things the way you're comfortable with: if it's Arch -- great, if not -- no hard feelings, and "you'll be back"™

+1

I remember the last big Gnome update. Yikes!

Arch Linux

#151 2008-07-30 12:06:31

Re: On the road to KDE 4.1

#152 2008-07-30 12:13:18

Re: On the road to KDE 4.1

#153 2008-07-30 12:18:31

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#154 2008-07-30 12:27:20

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#155 2008-07-30 12:34:47

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#156 2008-07-30 12:57:18

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#158 2008-07-30 13:08:42

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#159 2008-07-30 13:10:02

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#164 2008-07-30 16:59:09

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#172 2008-07-30 21:36:48

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#173 2008-07-30 23:32:35

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#174 2008-07-31 00:22:04

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