Wayland is NOT the future of Linux

nightside · Yesterday 10:28:25

I'm noticing that several distros are abandoning Xorg, which is hurting those with Nvidia cards (especially those on low incomes like me, who have a 4GB GTX 960).
I'd like to hear your opinions. I don't want to cause confusion, but I believe we should have the right to choose, not monopolize it like RedHat is doing with Linux, as shown in this video:

https://youtu.be/rwTo6wvX768

Waylando has been in development since 2008 and still has several issues:

https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7 … 9f2d1f2277

I created a thread on Reddit, and the level of support is incredible. They blame Nvidia for not releasing the source code and say I should switch to AMD. It seems like, in their imagination, Wayland's problems will disappear. It's insane, especially with Nvidia dominating the graphics card world and outperforming AMD cards. And as far as I know, Nvidia isn't required to release the code for its products.

https://www.reddit.com/r/xlibredev/comm … _of_linux/

Please, I migrated from Windows 10 to Arch, and now I think it's permanent. Don't kill Xorg; on the contrary, give more value to the Xlibre project, which will meet Xorg's needs and continue to provide a robust system.

PS: Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this command "sudo pacman -S libdrm picom xiccd vnstat xorg-server-xnest" "fix" Xorg's problems?

mpan · Yesterday 11:15:48

Welcome to the forum.

Arch is not removing Xorg. I’m not sure, what you are referring to and what “option” are you asking for: you have the choice and this choice is not being taken away from you.

Lone_Wolf · Yesterday 11:20:26

What I have heard is that Gnome 49 defaults to not supporting X and gnome 50 (a year from now I think ) will have no support for X11 anymore.
KDE plasma 6 focuses on wayland, but will continue to work on X. In plasma 7 (~ 5 years away ?) they'll drop X support.

Distros that default to gnome as DE may decide to drop X support, those that don't force a default on users won't .

I suggest you keep nvidia / amd / intel & closed / open drivers out of this .
Wayland has more then enough issues that are NOT related to the videocard brand someone uses.

gxt25 · Yesterday 12:08:54

Not that anyone with any say in the development of Linux cares what I have to say, but I'm with you 100%. "Wayland only" means I won't use it. Fortunately so far Arch isn't going that route. Although usable desktop environments/window managers on or for X are becoming fewer, there are enough left for now. I hope they'll continue to be supported going forward.

twelveeighty · Yesterday 12:10:21

Today is not the time to panic over your hardware not working with Arch, or even 99% of the other distros out there. If you are concerned with future compatibility, then get involved yourself with projects (Xorg or otherwise) that focus on backwards compatibility with older cards like the one you have. All those projects are volunteer-driven. Stay off social media - it isn't going to accomplish anything and take away time you could have spent contributing, or learning how to contribute to those projects.

injiniero · Yesterday 15:24:18

Who knows what the future holds? Any fortune tellers in the room?
GNU/Linux wouldn't be what it is if it hadn't evolved, leaving some of its components behind forever. For example, System V.
The current controversy surrounding Wayland vs. Xorg has happened before, and it's been proven that the path taken is the right one, and when it hasn't been, it's been rectified, but usually, you don't look back, you look forward.
I'm one of those affected by the abandonment of Xorg because I have an old Nvidia, but I don't think the solution is to try to make old hardware work with current software. Either you upgrade your hardware and follow the natural evolutionary pace, or you stick with a stable version of the software that works with your hardware.
It's that simple, and that's my opinion.
Welcome Systemd and welcome Wayland.

gxt25 · Yesterday 15:38:21

As has already been mentioned in this thread, the problems with Wayland go beyond graphics chips and old hardware. And I'm not convinced with respect to systemd either. I was too young to remember, but I've never met anyone old enough to know who felt the best man won in the cases of 8-track or VHS either. Sometimes the best tech doesn't win and we have to just go on with our lives.

stronnag · Yesterday 17:53:46

Whatever, an ancient 2009 AMD Phenom with 2012 Nvidia GT630 run Wayland, Gnome 49 just fine, thank you.

seth · Yesterday 19:16:17

That'd be a fermi chip and you're running on nouveau?
(Cause the proprietary 390xx nvidia will certainly not work)

Succulent of your garden · Yesterday 22:16:23

seth wrote:

That'd be a fermi chip and you're running on nouveau?
(Cause the proprietary 390xx nvidia will certainly not work)

Could it be he is using NVK experimental drivers ? https://docs.mesa3d.org/drivers/nvk.htm … re-support Most probably not.

As many here had told implicitly, there is indeed a component in some kind of "natural selection" of software in the process, that in reality nobody control it 100%, so anyone saying that is the future is simple delusional behavior. Sometimes only one dude changes the course by mistake, just the right man in the right place and the right time, like Linus Torvalds. Imagine the world where the legal case with BSD was closed in favor far more faster than Linus making Linux, then probably mostly anyone here would be a BSD person. Some people here came for gaming, well the guy who creates DVXK made it just because he wanted so much to play a game in 2018 that it was bad ported from playstation 4 [BSD based] to windows, So the vulkan translation made his thing. So never underestimate the power that a single individual can have in shaping the world.

As natural selection could suggest in someway, the best thing is to simple be better in computers knowledge, the more deep you get into the rabbit hole, the less is going to affect you the decision made by groups of people that makes bad choices. It's that simple, The more you know more free you are from the rest.

Last edited by Succulent of your garden (Yesterday 22:18:09)

topcat01 · Today 01:04:19

I think the real issue is whether gtk4 will completely drop X support, and if so whether major apps will switch to it completely, like Firefox. If that happens then we have to move to wayland. However, this will take a while.

seth · Today 07:55:00

Nobody in their right mind will switch to gtk4 before gnome starts breaking gtk5

Mind you, there's also https://www.phoronix.com/news/Wayback-X11-Wayland
Then we just need to add a shim to run wayland clients natively as X11 drawables and then we'll all be running X11 desktop environments on a rootful xwayland server that manage rootless wayland clients.

Seems there a QPA for arcan now…

Lone_Wolf · Today 09:12:22

That would be a Quality Practice Award ?

Arcan does look more interesting now then a few years ago .
Anyone know if there are distros that package it ?

seth · Today 09:14:24

https://doc.qt.io/qt-6/qpa.html
I think void linux is (still) the only one.

Succulent of your garden · Today 11:21:57

seth wrote:

Then we just need to add a shim to run wayland clients natively as X11 drawables and then we'll all be running X11 desktop environments on a rootful xwayland server that manage rootless wayland clients.

I was thinking in writing something similar but with a less technical language, but it was too late and I was thinking that probably seth would come in the morning while I'm was sleeping and put something better. Made the day.

seth wrote:

Seems there a QPA for arcan now…

Didn't knew Arcan, interesting.

Last edited by Succulent of your garden (Today 11:25:14)

topcat01 · Today 18:05:55

seth wrote:

Mind you, there's also https://www.phoronix.com/news/Wayback-X11-Wayland
Then we just need to add a shim to run wayland clients natively as X11 drawables and then we'll all be running X11 desktop environments on a rootful xwayland server that manage rootless wayland clients.

Didn't know about this, thanks! I love playing with older environments (currently running CDE and basking in nostalgia - used HP-UX for many years), and this will be great when it's finished.

Arch Linux

#1 Yesterday 10:28:25

Wayland is NOT the future of Linux

#2 Yesterday 11:15:48

Re: Wayland is NOT the future of Linux

#3 Yesterday 11:20:26

Re: Wayland is NOT the future of Linux

#4 Yesterday 12:08:54

Re: Wayland is NOT the future of Linux

#5 Yesterday 12:10:21

Re: Wayland is NOT the future of Linux

#6 Yesterday 15:24:18

Re: Wayland is NOT the future of Linux

#7 Yesterday 15:38:21

Re: Wayland is NOT the future of Linux

#8 Yesterday 17:53:46

Re: Wayland is NOT the future of Linux

#9 Yesterday 19:16:17

Re: Wayland is NOT the future of Linux

#10 Yesterday 22:16:23

Re: Wayland is NOT the future of Linux

#11 Today 01:04:19

Re: Wayland is NOT the future of Linux

#12 Today 07:55:00

Re: Wayland is NOT the future of Linux

#13 Today 09:12:22

Re: Wayland is NOT the future of Linux

#14 Today 09:14:24

Re: Wayland is NOT the future of Linux

#15 Today 11:21:57

Re: Wayland is NOT the future of Linux

#16 Today 18:05:55

Re: Wayland is NOT the future of Linux

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