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#76 2010-10-21 16:43:18

guidito73
Member
Registered: 2010-07-02
Posts: 43

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

Awebb wrote:

Interesting. DockbarX stopped working. Now I have a new concept of using my desktop.

Well, that pretty much sums it up. As a non-developer, my only point of contact with that change is those AUR packages refusing to work.

I reinstalled DockbarX from yaourt and it's working great again.

Everything else works fine so far smile

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#77 2010-10-21 17:32:45

ewaller
Administrator
From: Pasadena, CA
Registered: 2009-07-13
Posts: 13,109

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

Allan wrote:

...
Yes...  any further time would be a waste as there had been almost no bug activity for the last week of that.  If the packages in [testing] are not being used by anyone then there is really no point in having them there.

Allan, I don't often disagree with you.  This is the exception.  It has been said (perhaps even by you) that Testing is an all or nothing endeavor.  One cannot pick and choose which packages with which to play because there exist interdependencies.  At the present, us Intel graphics users are faced with, er, challenges in turning on the testing repository.

I am learning Python and use it with Django, and I knew that Python 3 was on the horizon.  As one with a tenuous grip on the Python language, I didn't feel the call to immerse myself in the testing.  That coupled with the instability of Intel/Mesa/Xorg has dissuaded me from testing of late.

My system is for my personal use and self education -- as such I can tolerate some instability.  If I were using this for any sort of production work, two weeks of testing regression of 400 packages is irresponsible.

I know Arch is bleeding edge, but we won't survive if we don't consider those whose livelihood depends on it.


Nothing is too wonderful to be true, if it be consistent with the laws of nature -- Michael Faraday
Like you, I have no idea what you are doing, but I am pretty sure it is wrong...Jasonwryan
----
How to Ask Questions the Smart Way

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#78 2010-10-21 17:49:48

drcouzelis
Member
From: Connecticut, USA
Registered: 2009-11-09
Posts: 3,495
Website

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

ewaller wrote:

My system is for my personal use and self education -- as such I can tolerate some instability.  If I were using this for any sort of production work, two weeks of testing regression of 400 packages is irresponsible.

I don't understand. Is there anything stopping people from NOT updating at the moment?

Even if you waited a month, you're not losing anything. Your computer works fine, and nothing is going to stop it from working fine.

In my opinion, an update such as this is the closest thing Arch gets to a "new version", and would be similar to an Ubuntu user upgrading from version 10.4 to 10.10. If you're "using this for any sort of production work" and don't have the time to handle the issues that come from any sort of update this big, then I would recommend waiting to update at a later time.

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#79 2010-10-21 17:54:45

anonymous_user
Member
Registered: 2009-08-28
Posts: 3,058

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

ewaller wrote:

My system is for my personal use and self education -- as such I can tolerate some instability.

ewaller wrote:

I know Arch is bleeding edge, but we won't survive if we don't consider those whose livelihood depends on it.

So are you using a production system or not? Do you need absolute stability or not?

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#80 2010-10-21 18:01:50

ewaller
Administrator
From: Pasadena, CA
Registered: 2009-07-13
Posts: 13,109

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

drcouzelis wrote:

I don't understand. Is there anything stopping people from NOT updating at the moment?

No, and I have.  My emacs bindings for python are broken, but I'll work through all that.  It also gives me an excuse to port my stuff to 3.  We will see what happens with wxPython and pyQt.

The point was that the testing repo is for that special breed that help the Arch community by doing testing.  Sometimes I fall into that group, sometimes I don't.  It is not for everyone.  That no one noticed any problems in the two week period is not indicative it is time to move to the mainstream.  It means the testing needed more time or more testers.

Last edited by ewaller (2010-10-21 18:02:26)


Nothing is too wonderful to be true, if it be consistent with the laws of nature -- Michael Faraday
Like you, I have no idea what you are doing, but I am pretty sure it is wrong...Jasonwryan
----
How to Ask Questions the Smart Way

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#81 2010-10-21 18:52:19

Kaloos
Member
Registered: 2009-04-27
Posts: 29

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

Hi,

I updated Arch but i don"t seem to have /usr/bin/python2, so most of my programs requiring python 2 don't work hmm
How did this happen and how can i fix it ?

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#82 2010-10-21 19:28:06

wonder
Developer
From: Bucharest, Romania
Registered: 2006-07-05
Posts: 5,937
Website

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

@Kaloos reinstall python2


Give what you have. To someone, it may be better than you dare to think.
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#83 2010-10-21 19:53:58

anonymous_user
Member
Registered: 2009-08-28
Posts: 3,058

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

ewaller wrote:

It means the testing needed more time or more testers.

Not everyone wants to take on the role of testing but how else are bugs supposed to be discovered? Also using the Testing repo is voluntary so who do you want to be one testing. Theres only a handful of developers and its not like there are paid testers.

Last edited by anonymous_user (2010-10-21 19:55:30)

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#84 2010-10-21 19:54:19

Kaloos
Member
Registered: 2009-04-27
Posts: 29

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

wonder wrote:

@Kaloos reinstall python2

Thanks it worked smile

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#85 2010-10-21 20:04:09

sctincman
Member
From: MA (US)
Registered: 2009-04-08
Posts: 85

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

Count one more for a smooth install; two AUR packages needed updating/tweaking (arandr was already updated, and bkchem just needed the previously mentioned sed line), and wicd left some orphaned files in the old 2.6 folder, but of course these are minor points tongue

I've been excited about this change for a little while now and am happy to see it hit extra. The Arch community maybe small compared to bigger distros, but hopefully they can look to Arch when python 2.7 starts to fade. The optimist in me hopes the devs' efforts here can help catalyze and motivate other developers to finally make the switch to python 3.

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#86 2010-10-21 20:27:39

Allan
Developer
From: Brisbane, AU
Registered: 2007-06-09
Posts: 10,416
Website

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

ewaller wrote:
Allan wrote:

...
Yes...  any further time would be a waste as there had been almost no bug activity for the last week of that.  If the packages in [testing] are not being used by anyone then there is really no point in having them there.

Allan, I don't often disagree with you.  This is the exception.  It has been said (perhaps even by you) that Testing is an all or nothing endeavor.  One cannot pick and choose which packages with which to play because there exist interdependencies.  At the present, us Intel graphics users are faced with, er, challenges in turning on the testing repository.

I think you make my point.   Very few people are willing to use [testing] so packages only get a limited amount of actual testing in that repo.  Also, it is a right pain to maintainers to have packages in both [extra] and [testing] so we tend to stop rolling release and just update the one in [testing].  So keeping the packages in [testing] longer would only achieve stopping the updates for no additional testing of packages.

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#87 2010-10-21 22:55:27

cb474
Member
Registered: 2009-04-04
Posts: 465

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

sctincman wrote:

and wicd left some orphaned files in the old 2.6 folder, but of course these are minor points tongue

I see that there's still a wicd folder, with some files in it, in /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages. Should I remove this? Is it just detritus now? Thanks.

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#88 2010-10-21 23:03:48

Allan
Developer
From: Brisbane, AU
Registered: 2007-06-09
Posts: 10,416
Website

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

pacman -Qo the files.   They are probably .pyc/.pyo files you created when running the application as root.

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#89 2010-10-21 23:45:58

jlcordeiro
Member
From: Portugal
Registered: 2009-05-23
Posts: 76

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

You should not go into an update like this if your livelihood depends on the stability of your system. Not without taking precautions.



Smooth update here. Cheers. And I'll make sure to use testing on my laptop. Didn't know that this lack of testers existed.

Last edited by jlcordeiro (2010-10-21 23:46:26)

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#90 2010-10-21 23:52:20

ewaller
Administrator
From: Pasadena, CA
Registered: 2009-07-13
Posts: 13,109

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

Allan wrote:

...So keeping the packages in [testing] longer would only achieve stopping the updates for no additional testing of packages.

Okay, I see your point. I am coming at it from the other direction.  Either way If what is in testing is not getting tested, it deadlocks and becomes pointless.  Okay, so be it.  I understand the value of getting off of top dead center and moving forward.

On the other hand, (and moving slightly off the Python topic), I came from Gentoo.  Over there, there were overlays on a developer by developer or topic by topic basis.   One could sandbox a development version of whatever it was on which one was working without having to pull in all the other development sandboxes.  Perhaps it is time to segregate  testing.


Nothing is too wonderful to be true, if it be consistent with the laws of nature -- Michael Faraday
Like you, I have no idea what you are doing, but I am pretty sure it is wrong...Jasonwryan
----
How to Ask Questions the Smart Way

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#91 2010-10-22 00:12:04

LeafStorm
Member
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-05-20
Posts: 51
Website

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

...I just thought of something. Have all the old Python 2.6 versions of packages (including python itself) been moved to the AUR? Because all my existing virtualenvs would a splode if Python 2.6 went away.


Thanks,
Matthew Frazier

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#92 2010-10-22 00:18:21

anonymous_user
Member
Registered: 2009-08-28
Posts: 3,058

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

Well at least Python 2.6 is in AUR:

http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=41809

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#93 2010-10-22 00:29:34

cb474
Member
Registered: 2009-04-04
Posts: 465

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

Allan wrote:

pacman -Qo the files.   They are probably .pyc/.pyo files you created when running the application as root.

Thanks!

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#94 2010-10-22 11:32:11

manouchk
Member
Registered: 2008-07-29
Posts: 212

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

Here I got a problem compiling scidavis from aur
http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=19201

Here is the problem during build:

build()...
patching file scidavis.pro
patching file src/ApplicationWindow.cpp
/tmp/yaourt-tmp-manu/aur-scidavis/src/scidavis-0.2.4/scidavis/python.pri(5):replace(var, before, after) requires three arguments
  File "python-includepath.py", line 5
    print " ".join([sysconfig.get_python_inc(), config.sip_inc_dir])
            ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
  File "<string>", line 1
    from distutils import sysconfig; print '-lpython'+sysconfig.get_config_var('VERSION')
                                                    ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
/tmp/yaourt-tmp-manu/aur-scidavis/src/scidavis-0.2.4/scidavis/python.pri(25):Function 'system' is not implemented
  File "python-sipcmd.py", line 8
    print " ".join([config.sip_bin, "-I", config.pyqt_sip_dir, config.pyqt_sip_flags] + flags)
            ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
/tmp/yaourt-tmp-manu/aur-scidavis/src/scidavis-0.2.4/scidavis/python.pri(26):Function 'system' is not implemented
/tmp/yaourt-tmp-manu/aur-scidavis/src/scidavis-0.2.4/scidavis/basic.pri(13):replace(var, before, after) requires three arguments
/tmp/yaourt-tmp-manu/aur-scidavis/src/scidavis-0.2.4/scidavis/sourcefiles.pri(80):Function 'eval' is not implemented

I tried also to substitute python by python2 with the sed options as suggested but it would not help much.

Any suggestions?

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#95 2010-10-22 12:05:58

SanskritFritz
Member
From: Budapest, Hungary
Registered: 2009-01-08
Posts: 1,615
Website

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

manouchk wrote:

Here I got a problem compiling scidavis from aur
http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=19201

Here is the problem during build:

build()...
patching file scidavis.pro
patching file src/ApplicationWindow.cpp
/tmp/yaourt-tmp-manu/aur-scidavis/src/scidavis-0.2.4/scidavis/python.pri(5):replace(var, before, after) requires three arguments
  File "python-includepath.py", line 5
    print " ".join([sysconfig.get_python_inc(), config.sip_inc_dir])
            ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
  File "<string>", line 1
    from distutils import sysconfig; print '-lpython'+sysconfig.get_config_var('VERSION')
                                                    ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
/tmp/yaourt-tmp-manu/aur-scidavis/src/scidavis-0.2.4/scidavis/python.pri(25):Function 'system' is not implemented
  File "python-sipcmd.py", line 8
    print " ".join([config.sip_bin, "-I", config.pyqt_sip_dir, config.pyqt_sip_flags] + flags)
            ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
/tmp/yaourt-tmp-manu/aur-scidavis/src/scidavis-0.2.4/scidavis/python.pri(26):Function 'system' is not implemented
/tmp/yaourt-tmp-manu/aur-scidavis/src/scidavis-0.2.4/scidavis/basic.pri(13):replace(var, before, after) requires three arguments
/tmp/yaourt-tmp-manu/aur-scidavis/src/scidavis-0.2.4/scidavis/sourcefiles.pri(80):Function 'eval' is not implemented

I tried also to substitute python by python2 with the sed options as suggested but it would not help much.

Any suggestions?

Try to replace those lines in the PKGBUILD:

  _pydir=`python -c "from distutils import sysconfig; print sysconfig.get_python_lib()"`
  python `dirname $_pydir`/py_compile.py $pkgdir/etc/scidavisrc.py || return 1
  python `dirname $_pydir`/py_compile.py $pkgdir/usr/share/scidavis/scidavisUtil.py || return 1

to

  _pydir=`python2 -c "from distutils import sysconfig; print sysconfig.get_python_lib()"`
  python2 `dirname $_pydir`/py_compile.py $pkgdir/etc/scidavisrc.py || return 1
  python2 `dirname $_pydir`/py_compile.py $pkgdir/usr/share/scidavis/scidavisUtil.py || return 1

zʇıɹɟʇıɹʞsuɐs AUR || Cycling in Budapest with a helmet camera || Revised log levels proposal: "FYI" "WTF" and "OMG" (John Barnette)

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#96 2010-10-22 12:10:23

olive
Member
From: Belgium
Registered: 2008-06-22
Posts: 1,110

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

Although, I have not (yet) seen problems with the packages; I do not think this move is a good idea, now. For several reasons:

1) This will break any script that is custom installed. Of course you have just to change /usr/bin/python by /usr/bin/python2 but if you have only a small python script in a big third party package; you might not see it. I think a minimal effort should be done in order that third party package does not depends on the distribution. This change cause an incompatibility with all other distributions for no benefit.

2) Archlinux, as a distribution, only distribute softwares written by other (with the exception of a few scripts). Are you aware of a single script that actually believes that python is python3?

3) The philosophy of arch is to remain as close as the original developer as possible. I think that in the upstream package, python is actually python2; while python3 is named "python3". This change is thus in plain contradiction to this philosophy. Being "bleeding edge" is to provide the latest version of packages; not to change the naming conventions in a way that is incompatible with all others. Sure Arch should ship python3, but leave it as "python3".

Last edited by olive (2010-10-22 12:12:44)

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#97 2010-10-22 22:30:25

youri
Member
From: southern ohio
Registered: 2009-05-22
Posts: 26

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

Has anyone managed to remove python 2 completely?

I have all these dependencies:

(1/1) removing python2                                                     [##########################################] 100%
missing dependency for eog : python2>=2.7
missing dependency for farsight2 : python2
missing dependency for gobject-introspection : python2
missing dependency for inkscape : python2
missing dependency for libreoffice : python2>=2.7
missing dependency for libtorrent-rasterbar : python2
missing dependency for lirc-utils : python2
missing dependency for mutagen : python2
missing dependency for pycairo : python2
missing dependency for pycrypto : python2
missing dependency for pygobject : python2
missing dependency for pyopenssl : python2
missing dependency for pyorbit : python2
missing dependency for python-chardet : python2
missing dependency for python-eyed3 : python2
missing dependency for pyxdg : python2
missing dependency for pyxml : python2
missing dependency for setuptools : python2
missing dependency for twisted : python2
missing dependency for zope-interface : python2

Should I just wait or do I need to fix it myself and go in there and recompile them!? Thanks!!

Last edited by youri (2010-10-22 22:32:28)

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#98 2010-10-22 22:44:26

ngoonee
Forum Fellow
From: Between Thailand and Singapore
Registered: 2009-03-17
Posts: 6,838

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

@olive
1. What happens when scripts start believing python is python3? No matter what, if your app assumes the /usr/bin/python symlink MUST point to python2 (or even worse, python2.6) your app is broken, file a bug report.
2. Every single python app/script in the repos work. python3 did not just appear out of the blue yesterday. Most of the simple home-made scripts which are basically just string manipulation will work in python2 and python3 just the same.
3. Please read the entire thread. This is not accurate.

@youri - Why are you trying to remove python2?


Allan-Volunteer on the (topic being discussed) mailn lists. You never get the people who matters attention on the forums.
jasonwryan-Installing Arch is a measure of your literacy. Maintaining Arch is a measure of your diligence. Contributing to Arch is a measure of your competence.
Griemak-Bleeding edge, not bleeding flat. Edge denotes falls will occur from time to time. Bring your own parachute.

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#99 2010-10-22 22:47:03

youri
Member
From: southern ohio
Registered: 2009-05-22
Posts: 26

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

Because, what is the point of having two pythons on my system? Feels like bloat.

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#100 2010-10-22 22:49:26

ngoonee
Forum Fellow
From: Between Thailand and Singapore
Registered: 2009-03-17
Posts: 6,838

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

youri wrote:

Because, what is the point of having two pythons on my system? Feels like bloat.

Some apps can't run on python3 yet. Minimalism is okay, but its not a religion. You could delete all the mentioned apps if you 'only' want python3.


Allan-Volunteer on the (topic being discussed) mailn lists. You never get the people who matters attention on the forums.
jasonwryan-Installing Arch is a measure of your literacy. Maintaining Arch is a measure of your diligence. Contributing to Arch is a measure of your competence.
Griemak-Bleeding edge, not bleeding flat. Edge denotes falls will occur from time to time. Bring your own parachute.

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