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#726 2013-11-09 05:07:04

chuckiv
Member
Registered: 2013-10-28
Posts: 87

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

Oh come on theres no real harm in messing up an install. I think I'm going to type up an install guide for x86_64 EFI that probably 90% of people can blindly follow on a machine that isnt ancient. I will call it Arch install for dummies. I'm sure people will love it, and I hope that we can change this perception that funnels all the new linux users to Ubuntu because Arch is "too difficult"

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#727 2013-11-09 05:22:12

WonderWoofy
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From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

You're missing the point.  It is not really terrible to screw up an install for many people.  But having no desire to drive to understand what you are doing is undoubtedly going to get you into trouble with Arch Linux.  If you (or anyone else) continues to blindly copy and paste instructions like that is going to break something eventually.  For some, their machine is a means to an end, and breakage isn't something that they can afford to happen at any given time.

I think that leading people down that path is actually potentially doing them more harm than good.  For some it may be the case that they get their feet wet and want to learn more, and those are the ones who will find success.  But for those who have the expectation that they are going to be able to administer an Arch Linux system like they do ubuntu are going to fail.

This is like those that we see around here who are so excited to have installed Arch Linux and this it is so great that they install it for all their friends.  Part of understanding how your system works, and therefore how to fix it, is by going through the process yourself.  You are simply taking away the potential to learn from those "users".


Edit: Besides, the people who write those types of guides tend to be the ones who don't have a great understanding of their system, so are typically not a good idea to follow in the first place.  You complain about the "blind leading the blind" in the ubuntu forums, but you come here and attempt to perpetuate the same.

Last edited by WonderWoofy (2013-11-09 05:23:50)

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#728 2013-11-09 06:09:08

chuckiv
Member
Registered: 2013-10-28
Posts: 87

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Installation_Guide

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Beginners%27_Guide

so you are claiming that these are not good to follow?

All people need are simple install instructions and pacman/yaourt cheat sheet really. Sorry to burst your bubble but it's not rocket science.

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#729 2013-11-09 06:17:18

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

chuckiv wrote:

so you are claiming that these are not good to follow?

I think I'm going to type up an install guide for x86_64 EFI that probably 90% of people can blindly follow on a machine that isnt ancient. I will call it Arch install for dummies.

No.  I am claiming that your proposed "Arch install for dummies" is not good to follow.

I know this is troll bait...

Sorry to burst your bubble but it's not rocket science.

It would seem that came here to troll....

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#730 2013-11-09 06:34:37

chuckiv
Member
Registered: 2013-10-28
Posts: 87

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

my guide would be same as those but assuming x86_64 and EFI and just telling the user how to partition

my point was that Arch would be a much better experience for first time linux users than Ubuntu

It actually feels like a finished product. And a lot of that credit does go to KDE really. But the whole Ubuntu/Unity experience I have seen turn several people away from linux completely that used to be very interested. And its a shame that they never tried Arch because it was perceived as not for beginners.

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#731 2013-11-09 06:52:10

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

If you hang around these forums for a bit, you will see that beginners are more than welcome.  We have a newbie corner and everything.  The problem arises when beginners come with the idea that asking for help here is going to be like asking for help on the ubuntu forums.  We don't hold hands here, we don't spoon feed info.  If a user comes here with the strong desire to learn and shows that they are making a serious effort at working towards understanding their system, the community will happily guide them in the right direction.

From what you have posted so far, you first mention that installing Arch is not hard because you can just about copy and paste the commands.  You mention that the beginners guide could be "trimmed down to a few commands devoid of explanations".  Then you mention that you are going to make an install guide for dummies.

Do you see why I would think this is a bad idea with a system that doesn't make any promises to hold your hand?

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#732 2013-11-09 15:42:51

ewaller
Administrator
From: Pasadena, CA
Registered: 2009-07-13
Posts: 12,749

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

Okay guys, this is starting to sound like Gulliver's travels; two kingdoms agree that soft boiled eggs are great for breakfast, and then go to war over whether it is proper to open the egg from the big end, or the little end [Which, by the way, is the source of the terms big-endian and little-endian where it came to the battle over byte order in memory, but I digress]

We all like Arch.  It is no more difficult than any other Distribution to install, but it requires research. 
Beginners are welcome here.
Users new and old will get told what to do if they fail to show initiative.
All support effort is welcome, even in the form of a new guide.
Support here is going to refer people to the official documentation; it is the only documentation we can ensure is correct.

Back to our original Arch is Best thread....
smile

Last edited by ewaller (2013-11-09 15:44:47)


Nothing is too wonderful to be true, if it be consistent with the laws of nature -- Michael Faraday
Like you, I have no idea what you are doing, but I am pretty sure it is wrong...Jasonwryan
----
How to Ask Questions the Smart Way

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#733 2013-11-22 18:33:21

chuckiv
Member
Registered: 2013-10-28
Posts: 87

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

People don't need to neccessarily understand how something works to use it. For example, if you buy a drill you can just plug it in and start drilling. You don't need to read the documentation or learn about mechanics. While it is ADVISABLE to read the manual, and doing so will make you a more powerful educated tool-weilder, it shouldn't be a built-in philosophy. Arch has made reading the manual a built-in philosophy and that is why people new to linux stay away from it.

Ubuntu makes it very easy for people to get linux up and running right away. It is noob-friendly, and this has helped popularize linux a great deal. However, it also sucks, and so it repels as much as it attracts. It brings tons of new users to linux, and then gets rid of them forever. Most never try linux again.

It is my simple wish that Arch becomes the first linux that people try. It feels like a finished product rather than something continually in development. It can compete with windows and mac and be a viable alternative for the general masses and not just something for geeks to have nerdgasms over. All that is missing is a simple graphic installer. Something a total dummy can use to get Arch up and running.

And once they are up and running, you can still promote your philosophy of learning. Just don't make it a pre-requisite for the course. Right now it's a catch-22. To use Arch you need to learn about linux but to learn about linux you need to use Arch. So all the people interested in linux go to Ubuntu, maybe try a few other main distros too, then quit. Most don't get to Arch because it has this nasty problem of perception that it's only for experts.

I have been on linux for less than a year now and I know lots of people that have been using it for 5-10 years and I can't talk them into trying Arch because they THINK it's too hard. I tell them it's not too hard, I'm a total noob and I did it, and you can too. But they are just like ehhhhh sounds like a headache I would rather just stick with xubuntu or kubuntu or whatever. So there is a huge gap between the common perception of Arch and the reality that I hope to see change in the future.

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#734 2013-11-23 17:54:57

Neburski
Member
Registered: 2009-09-15
Posts: 118

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

chuckiv wrote:

It brings tons of new users to linux, and then gets rid of them forever. Most never try linux again.

chuckiv wrote:

So all the people interested in linux go to Ubuntu, maybe try a few other main distros too, then quit.

When people make claims like that then they're suposed to back them up with statistics or else just don't mention them.

chuckiv wrote:

It is my simple wish that Arch becomes the first linux that people try.

If it's your wish then go out and promote it to as many people as you can, don't push the work required to make your wish come true onto other people.

chuckiv wrote:

Arch has made reading the manual a built-in philosophy and that is why people new to linux stay away from it.

So what? Go read https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/The_Arch_Way , that's the philosophy for Arch and neither you (with your year of experience in Linux) nor me (~10 years of experience with Linux) have any right to tell the Arch maintainers what they need to do.

chuckiv wrote:

All that is missing is a simple graphic installer. Something a total dummy can use to get Arch up and running.

Why don't you make it yourself? Do you intend it to just install the base system or also install additional software packages to add the functionality you deem necessary? Obviously just the base system is kind of pointless because if the total dummy can't even get the base system up and running without the GUI installer then what is he going to do with an up and running Arch base system that has no GUI interface at all?  If you believe the installer should offer additional software packages to be installed then what will you offer? Will you take away the immense choice an Arch base system offers you by only supporting particular packages (KDE, Gnome, ...) or will you make it nearly impossible for the dummy to actually get a decent Arch system installed by "supporting" all packages?

chuckiv wrote:

I have been on linux for less than a year now and I know lots of people that have been using it for 5-10 years and I can't talk them into trying Arch because they THINK it's too hard. But they are just like ehhhhh sounds like a headache I would rather just stick with xubuntu or kubuntu or whatever.

You seem to be under the impression that Arch is ideal for everyone, it's not. Arch is ideal for the people who like to build their own operating system without doing it in the Gentoo (compile everything yourself) or LFS (literally build everything from the ground up) style. A bleeding edge rolling release OS like Arch can be a serious headache for people who simply want their software to work and don't want to spend time figuring out the occasional package breakage so they know what they need to roll back.

My 'Arch Linux, Best Linux':

  • Choice, aside from the base packages I choose what will get installed and nothing else

  • Up to date packages in the repositories, no waiting for months/years for a particulare package to update to a more recent version.

  • No major upgrades once every 6 months that will inevitably break a bunch stuff, I prefer the rolling release so that breakage is usually minimal and easily fixed by a quick roll back.

  • Great Wiki documentation.

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#735 2013-11-23 18:38:52

teateawhy
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From: GER
Registered: 2012-03-05
Posts: 1,047
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Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

@ chuckiv That is not my opinion at all, and i think Neburski has already pointed this out very well.

chuckiv wrote:

It is my simple wish that Arch becomes the first linux that people try. It feels like a finished product rather than something continually in development.

arch linux is a rolling release distribution, and therefore continually in development. The amount of contribution to arch convinces me, that also the distribution itself is far from beeing "finished".
Also arch linux is not a product.

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#736 2013-11-24 01:05:56

keepitsimpleengineer
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From: San Joaquin Valley, CA
Registered: 2012-06-25
Posts: 284
Website

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

IMHO, Archlinux's greatest feature is it's lack of boundaries, fostering growth and development limited only by the users abilities, and providing a terrific environment for that.

Archlinux is unlike like some other distributions in pursuit of the ubiquitous, plentiful, occasionally whimsical dilettante computer user with "appliance" thinking, where the decisions made for ease•of•use and such narrow down and construct boundaries.

I use dilettante in the strict and positive sense. To wit: a person who cultivates an area of interest, such as the arts, without real commitment or knowledge.  Some of these dilettantes are very bright and committed to other things, and I learn from them in such areas as brain surgery, space exploration, paranormal, &c, where I am definitely the dilettante.

Retired now and in regular daily contact with newbies (as it were) has brought this idea home.

I now enjoy both the Archlinux community, and especially enjoy having systems perform extremely well that support what my friends call my "idiot•syncrasies" (aka hobbies and pastimes). big_smile The Arch Way


Al Einstein: "Man soll die Dinge so einfach machen wie möglich ~ aber nicht einfacher." (Things should be as simple as possible ~ but not too simple.)

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#737 2013-11-24 04:20:39

chuckiv
Member
Registered: 2013-10-28
Posts: 87

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

why so defensive and confrontational guys? lol don't take things too seriously, life is short

i'm not a programmer but if i was i would make the same type of simple graphic installer as other main distros with options for gnome and kde and xfce or whatever. keep it simple and have a walkthrough explain how to use pacman and yaourt to customize your system and add extra features

i know that "technically" Arch is not stable, but in reality, it really is. It's wayyyy more stable than ubuntu fo shizzle ;p
and windows isnt a rolling release but it sure as hell feels like it with all the updates, security patches, etc. not to mention how easy it is to get viruses and have all kinds of issues that the user cant fix on their own without doing just as much research as is required to maintain an arch system

it's time to stop thinking of arch or linux as something that is just for fun to tinker with. it CAN BE an amazing "product" and can be ideal for everyone and can be delivered better than it is now

but hey thats my opinion and you all have yours, theres really no point in quoting eachother and arguing over it. give it a rest smile

oh, and, of course, Arch is the best!

Last edited by chuckiv (2013-11-24 04:29:27)

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#738 2013-11-24 13:00:31

digitally404
Member
Registered: 2013-11-24
Posts: 11

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

Thank you to all the contributors and maintainers of Arch Linux!

I just downloaded and installed this distro the other day after mulling it over for a week or so. I wanted to expland my linux flavours after experiencing CentOS, Fedora, Ubuntu, and Mint.

I've got to say, I was a little leery of arch and it's "minimalistic base install mantra", but after running through the very well written and full documented Beginner's Guide (not to mention all the other well documented wikis!), I'm happy to say that I have a configured system EXACTLY how I use it. No extra fluff, and it runs very snappy smile

In the processs I've learned a lot more about linux than I knew before... This, I'm also thankful for smile

Thus far, I'm very impressed, especially with pacman. I believe I'm an official convert, and I'll likely be arching for years to come.

Thanks again to all arch contributors!

My life has just been made that much better big_smile

Last edited by digitally404 (2013-11-24 13:03:18)

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#739 2013-11-25 08:06:36

Gulver
Member
Registered: 2013-05-24
Posts: 208

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

"Arch, the Edgiest Linux" is probably the most fit slogan. Go go arch roll

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#740 2013-12-12 04:05:10

shaunsingh14
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From: New York, NY
Registered: 2012-01-07
Posts: 97
Website

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

It seems like every time I take a hiatus from Arch Linux, I end up spending five hours to get everything up and running with varying degrees of success. I was 14 when I heard about Arch Linux, 15 when I started experimenting with it, and 17 when I started taking it seriously.

* ?? June, 2011 (first time messing with Arch): I was on Debian 6.0 and I was trying to get an Arch system up and running on VirtualBox. Unfortunately, I basically just copy/pasted instructions from the wiki with no real consideration for what I was doing. I did get up to installing X11, however I just installed LXDE and just called it a day. The next day, when I booted that VM and initialised X . . . nothing happened. I ragequit at that point and just went back to my Debian installation. A few times after that, I tried doing a netinstall on VirtualBox but the installation medium kept giving me errors (I think this was when linux-3.x finally entered [core].). So I just abandoned the idea after that for a while.

* Late December 2011 to early January 2012 (Christmas break; first time I had a fully-functional Arch installation with a GUI and everything): I watched a distro review on YouTube out of sheer boredom and then I decided to actually give it a shot at this point. I went down to the library, printed out a copy of the Beginner's Guide, and burned a new installation medium. I had to do some checking around because my wireless adapter (at the time) required proprietary firmware (rt2800usb; I believe the wiki mentioned that the module was integrated into the kernel following the 3.x upgrade). I started the base install at 6am, and after 5-10 minutes I had the base install working (man, I miss the AIF sad). I ended up wasting a lot of time backtracking and doing the same things over and over again because of a failure to read the Beginner's Guide thoroughly. I skimmed through portions of it and screwed up multiple times editing files and entering commands. When I finally realised my errors, my base system was borked to high heaven (Although I miss rc.conf, I do NOT miss the nit-picky daemon load order). So I re-formatted everything, re-installed the base system, and then finally paid close attention to everything that the Beginner's Guide had which applied to me. After all that was taken care of, it ended up only costing me around 30 minutes (compared to the 3 hours and 45 minutes spent before). By the time the 5-hour mark passed, I had GNOME and NetworkManager running. I took care of Firefox, LibreOffice, browser plugins, and such the next day. I ended up going to sleep after that.

* 09 December 2013: It's been a while since I was last involved in anything Arch-related. Around August of 2012, I bought a laptop and I ended up completely neglecting my Arch install on my previous PC. Around January/February-ish, I tried migrating my bootloader from GRUB Legacy to GRUB 2.0 just because I was feeling reckless. Unfortunately . . . I forgot that I haven't updated my Arch install in almost six months. So when I had GRUB up and running, I borked my system (a culmination of many issues, the primary one being that I never migrated to systemd). So I just used a Linux Mint 12 disc I had lying around to install that, then upgraded to 13 from there. Recently, my laptop's screen frame ended up breaking so I decided to send it to the shop. So while I'm waiting on a new frame to be delivered to the shop, I ended up going back to my Mint machine. I got nostalgic, so I decided to re-install Arch. Printed out a new copy of the Beginner's Guide, then went on with Parabola since I had a new wireless adapter shipped which was "freedom-friendly." Once again, I wasted 5 hours. The Arch scripts weren't as daunting as I thought they were, so they weren't the cause of my delays. This time it was over pacman-key failing to recognise one package. It took me about 2 hours to realise I just had to refresh the keys . . . sad. After all that was taken care of, the rest of my delays were caused by the lack of local mirrors. Eventually, I had Parabola up and running with GNOME and everything. I ended up getting sick of Parabola (mostly because of the lack of local mirrors) and went with a regular Arch install. Strangely enough, I ended up wasting ANOTHER 5 hours but this time it wasn't over a failure to RTFM, but this time it was over a GRUB package issue (something I never had an issue with in Parabola). I kept getting syntax issues when I tried to generate grub.cfg. I installed syslinux over GRUB at that point, got a basic LXDE environment going, and then decided to peruse the forums to see if anyone else got the same issues I had. Thankfully, I wasn't the only one, so I took note of the known workaround, and then reinstalled everything again THIS TIME, with no errors.

***

All of my experiences aside, I truly do enjoy Arch Linux. Outside of Slackware, Arch would probably be the closest to what I would consider a completely "default" GNU/Linux system. I love the level of control that I have compared to Mint (which is actually quite nice, because getting an administrative task taken care of without a GUI was the logical equivalent of trying to find a straw of hay in a needle stack). The rolling release model also never ceases to amaze me (GNOME shell has come quite a long way), and I REALLY missed the AUR/yaourt. Pacman > dpkg/apt/apt-get/aptitude/Synaptic any day in my book. I also really missed that rewarding feeling of fixing something that went awry. I need an element of unpredictability. Sure, I'll hate it when I have to go into system configuration files or go with a dirty workaroundin the short term, but in the long run, it keeps my system administration skills from completely dying down. Systems like Slackware, Debian, et al. just work WAY too well for my taste and in the case of Debian (and derivatives thereof), if something goes horribly wrong . . . it's next to impossible to fix. On Arch, the transparency of the system really makes it easy to take care of system problems should they ever arise (and they usually do arise every one to two months).

In other words . . . Arch Linux is the perfect backdrop to the utter chaos that GNU/Linux was spawned from.

(suggestion for admins: "Master Archer" for forum rank pls)


Before you run for help, always consult the All-Knowing ArchWiki
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Main_Page
New to GNU/Linux? Read this to succeed with Linux.
http://www.justlinux.com/forum/showthre … did=153396

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#741 2013-12-20 12:12:00

Arakis
Member
From: Hamminkeln - Germany
Registered: 2013-08-11
Posts: 42
Website

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

My way to arch:

In February this year, i tried Arch for the first time. I got it up without problems, but i had huge problems with my tripple monitors and two graphic cards (2 monitors --> card1, 1 monitor card2). And even the RDP-client sucked (maybe my fault), and even sound was a problem (creative x-fi). After some days, i gave it up and rolled back to my windows installation.

But than the hate to windows become bigger and bigger (with the release of win8 and the microsoft busines plan), i gave it another try in august. My strict rule: Even if nothing works correctly, try to stay at least 14 days without windows. That was hard 14 days. But i was successfull. I got "everything" to work now (i connected now all three monitors to one card). Now, i understood most of the internal things, and can even execute complex tasks in arch. I even wrote an own AUR package ( https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/autologin-on-boot/ ). I want never change back to windows (where its possible). The only software i still use in a virtual box is Visual Studio for C#/Mono development (sorry, MonoDevelop is not powerfull enough) and Financial Accounting software (there is no "good" software for linux, for german financial accounting, that has customization for german financial/taxial rules/laws).

Since August, an update brokes my Arch installation 3 times: grub update (bug), systemd (my own fault, wrong fstab) and "no input for mouse/keybaord" on my netbook(i needed to reinstalled it...).

Now, i'm using Arch
- on my main computer
- my raspberry pi chess computer ( https://github.com/Arakis/TamaniChess )
- my netbook (i'm using when i'm at the customers)
- my whifes notebook
- my data server
- my webserver (live/production)
- main computer at one customer of me (wants only surf in the internet, and using skype).
- VPN-Dialin virtualbox at onother customer
- i brought two brothers away from windows, now to arch
--> one is able to maintain it himself
--> the other has got a "ready to use" installation of me - he's missing "nothing", expect some windows games (but 50% of them are running via wine)

And the best: My neigbours wanted to give their netbook away (with win7): It was "sooooo slow". I installed them an ready to use arch (i simply mirrored my arch main installation via rsync), and now they are absolutly happy. Its absoluty fast, and even their child have fun with child learning apps like http://gcompris.net/index-en.html

I hope, i will bring a lot of more people to arch smile

Greetings,
Sebastian

Last edited by Arakis (2013-12-20 12:16:53)

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#742 2013-12-20 13:16:37

mrunion
Member
From: Jonesborough, TN
Registered: 2007-01-26
Posts: 1,571
Website

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

Welcome aboard, Arakis! Kudos to your persistence!


Matt

"It is very difficult to educate the educated."

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#743 2014-01-16 10:20:35

milesrout
Member
Registered: 2014-01-16
Posts: 11

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

I'll tell you right away why arch is best: it's really, really easy to add new packages without having to set up repos etc.

That's what's best. For those few packages that aren't in the AUR, you can use abs/makepkg/etc. with a handwritten PKGBUILD. You get dependency management, paksave'd stuff if/when you uninstall (I assume, I haven't tried this), the ability to uninstall at all, etc.

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#744 2014-01-27 21:24:49

bishudash
Member
Registered: 2013-12-07
Posts: 3

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

Ill be honest. I dont like where most desktop environments are going these days. I switched to Arch because I do believe it should be simple and I do believe the computing experience should be more rewarding to people who invest time in gaining the knowledge and the patience to work with the system. Arch is the best for me because it let me understand more about the internals and helped to realize the potential to other types of environments like tiling managers and even today everyday I experiment with something new. I cant switch to any other OS unless I absolutely have to.

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#745 2014-01-28 18:31:44

grandtheftjiujitsu
Member
From: Georgia, USA
Registered: 2013-07-27
Posts: 84
Website

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

During my first install (about 6 months ago) I was pretty nervous because I had been using Mint for about a year and the idea of a cli-only install was completely mortifying.  I most definitely copy and pasted everything from the wiki and had no idea what VirtualBox was, but I was up for a new challenge.  However, since then it seems like I'm always researching on the wiki, $ man ...[something]..., or adding to my tinkering to-do list. 

Sure, I still use a lot of GUIs and a Cinnamon DE, but the point is that one's setup with Arch is precisely the way they desire it to be -- it has to be, Arch makes you make it your own. After making plenty of bonehead moves and having to recover from them, I'm (usually) not afraid to grind things out in the console -- or at least poke and prod around to investigate things. 

As far as The Arch Way - I'm all about openness and freedom; I find myself very irritated with other systems (even ones I've installed myself) that won't allow the kind of fine-tuning that Arch does.  Of course, that leads back to being "user-centric."  I don't know if I can fully say that I live up to the KISS principle, I plead guilty to taking the easy GUI road on somethings, but try to at least have a reason for doing so other that "I'm too lazy to figure out how this works...".  However, it seems like I'm frequently looking for ways to simplify and de-clutter my configs.  Learning is progress.  Party on Wayne... Party on Arch!

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#746 2014-02-05 02:40:33

eviljim
Member
Registered: 2014-02-02
Posts: 1

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

I had always distro-hopped among several Debian-based distros  - Debian Lenny, Wheezy, Trisquel, Mint, Bohdhi,  etc...  and I realized that I was wasting a lot of time, just tweaking them.  Using the installed base system was never good enough me... I always spent hours re-configuring things and installing/ uninstalling different File managers, window managers, terminal emulators, etc...   I also started to get tired of the radical changes that were introduced in every major distro upgrade (Unity, Gnome 3, etc...).  For some reason, the thought had never occurred to me to use anything other than a Debian or Ubuntu-based distro.  I had become very comfortable with the apt package manger.

I had heard a lot about Arch Linux over the years because regardless of what distro you are are using,  the Arch wiki is prbably the single most useful GNU/Linux resource on the web.  I often found the answers that I needed there and I started to feel that maybe Arch was really worth looking into.   I was a little intimidated by the installation (as most newbies are...).  The idea of installing the bootloader seemed scary for some reason.   So,  I chickened out and installed ArchBang.  I was immediately impressed by Pacman and loved having access to up-to-packages.  I was also impressed by Archbang's speed and lightness....  but something just didn't feel right...

Then, I read The Arch Way and that was when I knew what I must do... 

I took a day and just read the entire Beginner's Installation Guide and I booted the install medium a few times to practice the commands.  The next day,  I went ahead with the installation and 30 minutes later,  I was running the  "real" Arch.  Then, about 20 minutes after that,  I was running spectrwm and had most of my preferred base system completely set up.  It was actually one of the quickest installations I have done.  The only issues that I have had into were very minor and the answers were found in the Arch Wiki and/or Forums.

The irony, is that despite having to install everything from scratch,  I have spent a lot less time tweaking my Arch system because I haven't had to undo someone else's configuration first.  Is it possible that I have actually been freed from the life endless tweaking and tinkering?   

...probably not tongue

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#747 2014-02-08 18:38:04

saif
Member
Registered: 2010-05-21
Posts: 49

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

Hello all...!

I am a linux newcomer and I enjoy spending tons of hours of my life installing new distros, and no, I am not doing it on a virtual machine. I am constantly formatting my main harddrive (thank god chrome sync, google drive and dropbox exist). Somehow I still enjoy it.

I have tried arch for the first time 4 years ago and I have to admit it was as harsh as rewarding to make a clean install out of it. Too bad once I was happy, I longed for games and had to go back to windows. Later, I have tried many distros just for fun and to escape a little bit from my pc videogames addiction. But while suffering different distros rigidness and not being able to fully exploit my somewhat mid-high end desktop, I ended back in windows, again and again.

These days I tried OpenSuse (one of the most I like, in fact), but over and over I step into silly problems that should have been resolved by now (such as eclipse sdk crashing on kde by default, xorg stability issues, hard-to-find common libraries, etc) and other things such as a lack of centralized solution center and community or a lack of centralized system configuration place, they were really tiny bits but together they were sufferable as one progressed deeper into adaptability and day to day usage, which forced me by time to roll over the rolling release and have tons of mixed repositories doing different things and having different versions of a library, while missing some others.

Cant review all of them here but another of the interesting distros I have tried recently was Debian, that one did grew up lastly. But it comes so late and old that it was a pain in the arse to get it working with my somehow new hardware. The old kernel and very, very stable repositories are great, but they are exaggeratedly outdated, realizing how fast are things progressing (from hardware to applications that need modern libraries in order to work properly).

But well, it was all a maneuver to still avoid my love-hate relationship with ol'good ARCH. Yes, there was Manjaro but im sticking with this philosophy, even if I was still under windows. So, after two or three whiskeys, I gathered courage to try the arch with the new systemctl modular service system, and as the night went on, things were amazingly rewarding. It was difficult to chose a DE, but considering I have moderately a good hardware, I couldn't stick to an old-looking boring environment, so I picked gnome 3. I know, its fancy but I am enjoying how clean my screen is. All I do is press the winD button and got everything in there, working flawlessly in a minimal customized setup.

One things I most enjoyed was installing xorg and videodrivers my self. Installing fglrx proprietary drivers from the first time directly from the terminal before running X the first time was one of the things I most enjoyed, it was the eureka moment when everything launched at first-shot. My powerful videocard makes it a little difficult for my consciousness since I am not playing games here, but I need to avoid it, and here linux is ready to serve (even though somehow steam is already installed on my new system). Then I learned how to untar files and build my packages, that was another huge eureka moment.

Now here I am, everything works so flawlessly I could stick into my monitor screen all day long. A centralized community, a customized installation and a package manager that rocks.

I hope to stay here for a while. Now I only need to learn programming in order to be able to contribute someday. Dunno where to start though...

Simply, ARCH keep it up
Saif

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#748 2014-02-09 13:16:58

Bralkein
Member
Registered: 2004-10-26
Posts: 354

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

Hi guys, I just realised today that I have been using Arch for over 10 years. It was the best then, it's the best now, and I firmly believe that it will be the best for years to come. I use it at home, I use it at work, and I even convinced my boss to use it (he is very picky :-) ).

A million billion thanks to all involved, maybe sometime this decade I will have some spare time to contribute :-S

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#749 2014-02-10 01:07:57

saif
Member
Registered: 2010-05-21
Posts: 49

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

Bralkein wrote:

Hi guys, I just realised today that I have been using Arch for over 10 years. It was the best then, it's the best now, and I firmly believe that it will be the best for years to come. I use it at home, I use it at work, and I even convinced my boss to use it (he is very picky :-) ).

A million billion thanks to all involved, maybe sometime this decade I will have some spare time to contribute :-S


10 years! wow you got to know quite a little bit about it. share your experiences with more detail please!

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#750 2014-02-10 12:03:33

Bralkein
Member
Registered: 2004-10-26
Posts: 354

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

saif wrote:

10 years! wow you got to know quite a little bit about it. share your experiences with more detail please!

Haha, OK... well first, to be honest I am not sure that it is exactly 10 years... but I do know that I'd been using Arch for a while before I signed up to these forums... so it's probably close enough wink

Prior to Arch, I was switching between Slackware Current and Debian Sid. I liked Slackware's style, but I wanted a proper package manager (slapt-get or swaret or whatever wasn't good enough). I liked apt on Debian, but I thought Debian was a bit too over-complicated, I liked Slackware's simple approach. I also really, really liked rolling release, but I found both Slackware Current and Debian Sid to be too unstable.

I can't remember where I heard of Arch, but it really ticked all the boxes for me. It is rolling-release, but it's also quite stable. There are only minimal changes to packages from upstream, and the configuration is not too overcomplicated by distro-specific tools.

Since then, I guess there have been many changes, systemd and package signing are the big ones for me (big improvements IMHO). However, even though many details have changed, I think Arch has remained true to its KISS philosophy, and the overall "feel" of Arch is quite the same. Of course, it's hard to be sure because I don't have a time machine smile but I still have the same requirements for a Linux distro, and Arch still meets the requirements very well.

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