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#776 2013-05-10 14:36:56

Awebb
Member
Registered: 2010-05-06
Posts: 5,559

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

So you had your new computer sitting around for an entire day without doing anything? There's a formal diagnosis for this symptom, called masochism.

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#777 2013-05-11 23:36:36

Daerun
Member
Registered: 2011-02-07
Posts: 84

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

Awebb wrote:

So you had your new computer sitting around for an entire day without doing anything? There's a formal diagnosis for this symptom, called masochism.

No, it's actually outside world calling (damn outside world).

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#778 2013-05-12 20:35:20

nomorewindows
Member
Registered: 2010-04-03
Posts: 3,260

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

Just one question:  If you promote Arch Linux as being the best are you showing Flavortism?


I may have to CONSOLE you about your usage of ridiculously easy graphical interfaces...
Look ma, no mouse.

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#779 2013-05-12 20:37:27

MatejLach
Member
From: United Kingdom
Registered: 2011-06-22
Posts: 313
Website

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

nomorewindows wrote:

Just one question:  If you promote Arch Linux as being the best are you showing Flavortism?

If one can promote Arch Linux on Arch forums, then yes, I guess.

Last edited by MatejLach (2013-05-12 20:39:24)

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#780 2013-06-11 03:43:47

linuxpcplus
Member
Registered: 2013-06-11
Posts: 21

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

I spent years using Ubuntu & its many derivatives. A few months ago I decided it was time for a change. I wanted a distro with the latest software & no need to reinstall in order to upgrade to the latest version.
Naturally, this led me to Arch, Gentoo, Slackware and other rolling distros. After much research I decided I preferred Arch. But I was not sure I was ready to make the change. So I decided to start with Manjaro, an Arch derivative. A simple way to get a basic imtroduction to Arch. Manjaro is great! But now I am ready to graduate to "Arch proper"! But like most folks coming to Arch, I do have a few concerns/questions.

My primary concerns surround my computing needs/resources.
I am currently a college student and run my own business. I have only one machine (and, no I cant afford a new machine) I use for both school & work so extended periods of downtime can be very costly to me. I do have a Nexus 7 I can use for short periods, but obviously not a reasonable substitute for my computer.
So my concern is that when I switch to Arch I will need to take the time to build my system to what I want it to be. I am concerned that this may be a problem since I may not be able to use my computer during this period, and masy experience breakages due to mistakes I make. So here is my question:
Does anyone have suggestions/advice on how to minimize downtime while installing/building my Arch system?
Any advice that might help a new Arch user get started & ensure the most success?

I have been reading the Wiki & the forums in depth. But any other advice would be appreciated!

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#781 2013-06-11 04:04:10

drcouzelis
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From: Connecticut, USA
Registered: 2009-11-09
Posts: 4,072
Website

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

The rule is simple: Install and update Arch Linux when you have time to fix possible problems.

Bad: "I have a 15 minute break in my work schedule, so I'll do a quick update."
Good: "It's Sunday afternoon, so I'll update Arch Linux like I do every weekend."

Arch Linux is quick and easy to install, but when you're done all you have is a terminal and Bash. What can be challenging is installing all of the other applications you need and configuring them the way you like it. You know, like X, a window manager, a web browser, and so on.

Or, to avoid pretty much any problems, just dual boot with what you're already using. I have four operating systems install. If I break Arch Linux, I can just boot into Haiku or FreeBSD! Just kidding. I just boot into an Arch Linux live CD I keep handy. Which, for the record, I've only had to do once. (Stupid Linux Mint installer...)

linuxpcplus wrote:

a distro with the latest software & no need to reinstall in order to upgrade to the latest version... Naturally, this led me to Slackware...

Woah. Slackware, the super conservative "release when it's ready" distribution? When did it become a rolling release distribution or start having the latest software? yikes

Last edited by drcouzelis (2013-06-11 04:05:31)

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#782 2013-06-11 04:06:49

linuxpcplus
Member
Registered: 2013-06-11
Posts: 21

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

Thank you for your advice drcouzelis.
As for Slackware? I stand corrected! LOL!

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#783 2013-06-11 04:30:51

ewaller
Administrator
From: Pasadena, CA
Registered: 2009-07-13
Posts: 17,421

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

Might I suggest you try installing Arch in a virtual machine to test the waters before you leap into the deep end?


Nothing is too wonderful to be true, if it be consistent with the laws of nature -- Michael Faraday
Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the things no one can imagine. -- Alan Turing
---
How to Ask Questions the Smart Way

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#784 2013-06-11 07:20:37

Awebb
Member
Registered: 2010-05-06
Posts: 5,559

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

You are currently running an Arch derivative? Chances are high, that they do not use too many different packages. Make yourself accustomed with pacman and learn, how to create package lists. Create a list of explicitly installed packages, that are not in the [base] and [base-devel] group. Then take this list and check it against the package database (on the package website for example), to find packages, that are in your current distribution, but not in Arch and delete them from your list. Now go through that list again. Is there anything, you do not need? Many distributions install junk on your system you never use. Identify that junk and delete it from the list.

Besides trying to install Arch in a virtual machine, I have successfully installed Arch on USB sticks many times. While the success of this depends on your bios and dongles, it is a good way to practice the Arch install, without having to worry about breaking your system.

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#785 2013-06-11 08:07:02

litemotiv
Forum Fellow
Registered: 2008-08-01
Posts: 5,026

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

My income also relies on a single machine (laptop). I'm pretty impatient though and i enjoy taking risks now and then, so one cold (hot? can't remember but cold sounds better) afternoon in 2008 i just formatted my 2-year old Ubuntu partition and installed Arch using the Beginner's Guide. The rest is history, i'm about 6 laptops further now, and i don't think i've ever had more than 1-2 hours without a working machine since then. So my advice would be to walk into your bathroom, look in the mirror and ask yourself: "well do you feel lucky, punk?". I know i did.

If you want some downtime insurance:

drcouzeliz wrote:

Or, to avoid pretty much any problems, just dual boot with what you're already using. I have four operating systems install. If I break Arch Linux, I can just boot into Haiku or FreeBSD! Just kidding. I just boot into an Arch Linux live CD I keep handy. Which, for the record, I've only had to do once. (Stupid Linux Mint installer...)


ᶘ ᵒᴥᵒᶅ

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#786 2013-06-11 08:32:04

IsSuE
Member
From: Upper Austria
Registered: 2006-04-29
Posts: 309

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

Running Arch for quite a few years now, never had any serious downtime that was not fixable withing half an hour.
Just one thing to remember: never --force !

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#787 2013-06-11 08:33:12

jakobcreutzfeldt
Member
Registered: 2011-05-12
Posts: 1,041

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

IsSuE wrote:

Just one thing to remember: never --force !

The other rule: always check the news before updating.

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#788 2013-06-11 08:37:04

cybertorture
Member
Registered: 2010-05-05
Posts: 338

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

Also there is a wiki app in google store if i m not mistaken ( not a andriod user here ). This is a "must have" if you have only 1 machine and you are new commer. Just my 2 cents. Cheers


O' rly ? Ya rly Oo

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#789 2013-06-11 08:45:25

jasonwryan
Anarchist
From: .nz
Registered: 2009-05-09
Posts: 29,046
Website

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

Moving to Arch Discussion...


Arch + dwm   •   Mercurial repos  •   Surfraw

Registered Linux User #482438

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#790 2013-06-11 08:47:51

jasonwryan
Anarchist
From: .nz
Registered: 2009-05-09
Posts: 29,046
Website

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

Merging with the (new) Should I go Arch sticky...


Arch + dwm   •   Mercurial repos  •   Surfraw

Registered Linux User #482438

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#791 2013-06-11 08:48:15

skanky
Member
From: WAIS
Registered: 2009-10-23
Posts: 1,847

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

cybertorture wrote:

Also there is a wiki app in google store if i m not mistaken ( not a andriod user here ). This is a "must have" if you have only 1 machine and you are new commer. Just my 2 cents. Cheers

There is - there's a forum thread about it here, too. As I haven't opened it for months (Android phone is now my alarm clock), I'm not sure if it's up to date, or updates itself. I'd check before relying on it.


"...one cannot be angry when one looks at a penguin."  - John Ruskin
"Life in general is a bit shit, and so too is the internet. And that's all there is." - scepticisle

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#792 2013-06-11 13:31:07

linuxpcplus
Member
Registered: 2013-06-11
Posts: 21

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

ewaller wrote:

Might I suggest you try installing Arch in a virtual machine to test the waters before you leap into the deep end?

I had considered this, but I am concerned that I may not get the full potential in a VM. I think dual booting will be my best option.

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#793 2013-06-11 13:33:52

linuxpcplus
Member
Registered: 2013-06-11
Posts: 21

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

Wow! Thamk you all for the awesome advice! I will be installing arch alongside manjaro on Saturday (my next day off). I am so excited!

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#794 2013-06-11 13:40:18

flipper T
Member
Registered: 2012-09-14
Posts: 419

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

linuxpcplus wrote:

Wow! Thamk you all for the awesome advice! I will be installing arch alongside manjaro on Saturday (my next day off). I am so excited!

I made the same transition (ubuntu...manjaro.....arch), about 8 months ago.

If you are comfortable in using manjaro, you will be fine in arch. My advice, go for full install. The Beginners' guide is all you need. Follow it carefully & don't be tempted to use other guides or youtube installation videos...they will only lead you astray. The only up-to-date guide is the archwiki.

Good Luck.


If I'm curt with you it's because time is a factor. I think fast, I talk fast and I need you guys to act fast if you wanna get out of this. So, pretty please... with sugar on top. Clean the [censored] car. -The Wolf

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#795 2013-06-11 13:55:34

drcouzelis
Member
From: Connecticut, USA
Registered: 2009-11-09
Posts: 4,072
Website

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

linuxpcplus wrote:
ewaller wrote:

Might I suggest you try installing Arch in a virtual machine to test the waters before you leap into the deep end?

I had considered this, but I am concerned that I may not get the full potential in a VM. I think dual booting will be my best option.

That sounds like a fine decision. By the way, the purpose of suggesting installing Arch Linux in a virtual machine is to become comfortable with the installation process, not to get the "full potential" of Arch Linux. smile

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#796 2013-06-11 14:29:37

jocheem67
Member
Registered: 2009-11-09
Posts: 222

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

I' m totally not into geekie stuff. I' m way better with languages, philosophy and psychologie,than with exact sciences stuff. Nonetheless, I' ve been copy-pasting my way through several more complex distributions for years now. Hardly broke anything with Arch. I guess common sense gets you far enough...

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#797 2013-06-11 19:06:50

sitquietly
Member
From: On the Wolf River
Registered: 2010-07-12
Posts: 219

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

linuxpcplus wrote:

.....My primary concerns surround my computing needs/resources.....extended periods of downtime can be very costly to me..... when I switch to Arch I will need to take the time to build my system to what I want it to be. I am concerned that this may be a problem since I may not be able to use my computer during this period, and masy experience breakages due to mistakes I make.....

You would probably get Archlinux installed fast enough and probably be able to keep it running smoothly.  "Probably."  If you want assurance that you can keep your computer available for work while you develop your skills then install more than one linux operating system so that you can boot into either one, and make sure that one of them is easy to install and pre-configured, an "out of the box" rolling-release distro, like Sabayon or Manjaro.  Both of your distros can give you access to your files in a shared home partition.

A linux distro doesn't require much disk space but installing mutliple distros will probably require that you move all of your personal files "off somewhere" while you get the new home ready.

I have gnome3 installed in four different partitions for four different distros along with big packages like texlive and sage math.  The least space needed is 8GB for a simple gnome3 install for Archlinux, and I'm using 16GB for gnome3 and kde4 and texlive on manjaro.  I'm using 26GB for a very fully-loaded gentoo with "portage", distfiles, and kernel sources.  I generally allow 30 GB for a root partition and it proves to be enough for a full install and plenty of apps for Sabayon, Manjaro, Archlinux, etc.

If could give up 30GB of your disk for "insurance" then you could be almost certain that you can always get work done even when you've got your Archlinux system all screwed up. smile

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#798 2013-06-11 20:49:52

Archdove
Member
Registered: 2011-09-23
Posts: 118

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

There is only one solution to this question: Fuck Yea!

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#799 2013-06-11 23:13:01

Roken
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2012-01-16
Posts: 1,087

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

My path to Arch was somewhat different than most expressed here. I experimented with Ubuntu many years ago, and was never a fan. Then cam Linux Mint. In a short time I became very comfortable with Linux even when getting deep into the nuts and bolts, so much so that I built LFS and then just carried on by myself until I had a fully functioning system built by hand. My problem was that maintenance of my own build was far too time intensive. I could have honestly spent all my life just updating it, and so I needed something that offered me my new found freedom to make my system what I wanted without the time penalty. I was pretty much left with a choice between Gentoo and Arch. I chose Arch and honestly haven't looked back.

Sure, there is the odd breakage, and very occassionally there's the showstopper, but for me it's all part of the fun. I don't see the update that stops the boot process in its' tracks as a problem, I see it as a solution to be found and a new learning experience (or a reminder of things I'd forgotten) and can usually recover from even the worst failure in a couple of hours (with more than a little help from the wiki and forum searches).

As others have said, there's nothing at all inherently unstable about Arch, and in fact most of the time it's extremely reliable and dependable, even using testing repositories. You need to give yourself time to fix breakages if you rely on the machine for more than home/informal use. For more than a year I've run a server on my home box and so I had an incentive to keep it alive. Even the three or four big breakages haven't kept the server down for more than a few hours (although, I've this week migrated it to a VPS so that I can give my own machine a rest overnight on a daily basis).

The bottom line, if you are content to take the (small) risk of a critical breakage, and are prepared to put some effort in to keeping your system maintained, then Arch can meet all your needs.

By way of a comparison, when I used to run Windows I probably suffered more critical breakages in a 12 month period than I have with Arch.


[img]https://www.speedtest.net/result/10030141098.png[/img]

Ryzen 1800x 8 core/16 thread - GTX 1070 8Gb, Asus ROG STRIX B350-F, 16Gb Corsair DDR4, Cooler Master N300 chassis, 6 HD (1 NvME PCI, 2SSD, 3Spinners) + 1 x optical.
Linux user #545703

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#800 2013-06-12 00:38:59

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,413

Re: The Official Unofficial 'Arch is Best' Thread

Roken wrote:

By way of a comparison, when I used to run Windows I probably suffered more critical breakages in a 12 month period than I have with Arch.

This.  Not to mention, when you experience breakage in windows, typically there is no real path to recovery other than reinstallation.

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