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#26 2013-06-04 04:47:14

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: /usr/bin changes and grub legacy

@jasonwryan, I don't think the deprecated bootloader is nearly as big of an issue as his choice to stick with initscripts and consolekit.  At least a bootloader is just a bootloader, and there is not really as much to really break in that regard.  But in terms of the other two, you are definitely "learning redundant and deprecated technologies and hacks" that will be of little use in the future.  Not to say that SysV is dead, but the Arch initscripts most certainly are.

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#27 2013-06-04 10:56:11

shariebeth
Member
From: South Florida
Registered: 2010-04-27
Posts: 77

Re: /usr/bin changes and grub legacy

Oh I'm not hell bent on keeping consolekit, I just put it back in to make sure everything worked.  I will probably look for a better solution and remove that.
I do still like initscrips though.  *sighs*

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#28 2013-06-04 12:53:30

teateawhy
Member
From: GER
Registered: 2012-03-05
Posts: 1,001
Website

Re: /usr/bin changes and grub legacy

shariebeth wrote:

Oh I'm not hell bent on keeping consolekit, I just put it back in to make sure everything worked.  I will probably look for a better solution and remove that.
I do still like initscrips though.  *sighs*

I recommend systemd, but for your interest:
https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=162606

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#29 2013-06-04 13:03:17

shariebeth
Member
From: South Florida
Registered: 2010-04-27
Posts: 77

Re: /usr/bin changes and grub legacy

teateawhy wrote:
shariebeth wrote:

Oh I'm not hell bent on keeping consolekit, I just put it back in to make sure everything worked.  I will probably look for a better solution and remove that.
I do still like initscrips though.  *sighs*

I recommend systemd, but for your interest:
https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=162606

I moved to systemd on my main pc but I am not horribly excited by it, or by the concept of change because "others do it".  Arch was unique and those "old" features are why I liked it.  That said, pacman makes a strong reason for sticking with it.
Thanks for the link, I will check that out.

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#30 2013-06-04 13:04:15

nixpunk
Member
Registered: 2009-11-23
Posts: 266

Re: /usr/bin changes and grub legacy

WonderWoofy wrote:
nixpunk wrote:

I just used it as an excuse to update Grub.  wink

Yeah, but grub-legacy was so much more sane, IMO.  It is not that grub2 doens't provide some really neat features, it is just that for 99% of users, none of those neat features will be of any use.  So in the case of the bootloader, it is not like it is a running binary on your system that can produce a threat, it is simply a bootloader that does its job, then quits.  So no matter what you are using, if it works and you are happy with it, I see little reason to change it.

True, but I have to deal with Grub 2 on a few systems, so I don't mind upgrading.  I'm happily running Syslinux on my laptop, too.

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#31 2013-06-04 16:31:03

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: /usr/bin changes and grub legacy

nixpunk wrote:

True, but I have to deal with Grub 2 on a few systems, so I don't mind upgrading.  I'm happily running Syslinux on my laptop, too.

I really like syslinux.  It is so unbelieveably simple and modular.  The only issue I had with it is that when it updates, I had forgotten to remove that all caps file in /boot/syslinux that told the install file to automagically use the syslinux-install_update script.  So it would try to reset the already set boot flag, which is on my ESP.  So it would do something to create inconsistencies that required manual fsck intervention... I don't let it autoupdate anymore though, so all is good.

I guess I do wish that there was an alternative to either having a shared /boot or using chainloading of the partition boot record to have a multi OS system.  But TBH, I haven't really had a multi OS system for a while... or I do, but they are all btrfs subvolumes in the same pool, so no chain loading required... but then I'm back to that shared boot.  Oh well, syslinux is just my backup to UEFI.

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#32 2013-06-04 16:32:48

Thaodan
Member
From: Dortmund, Nordrein-Westfalen
Registered: 2012-04-28
Posts: 432

Re: /usr/bin changes and grub legacy

WonderWoofy wrote:

Why is it that you feel as though you still need consolekit?  Are you not using systemd?

Lightdm -.-


Linux odin 3.13.1-pf #1 SMP PREEMPT Wed Mar 5 21:47:28 CET 2014 x86_64 GNU/Linux

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#33 2013-06-04 16:45:07

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: /usr/bin changes and grub legacy

Thaodan wrote:
WonderWoofy wrote:

Why is it that you feel as though you still need consolekit?  Are you not using systemd?

Lightdm -.-

I don't understand this.  The question was already answered, as in that particular case systemd is actually not in use.  I'm not entirely sure what lightdm has to do with anything here.

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#34 2013-06-04 16:52:32

Baryon
Member
Registered: 2011-08-12
Posts: 63

Re: /usr/bin changes and grub legacy

WonderWoofy wrote:

It is not that grub2 doens't provide some really neat features, it is just that for 99% of users, none of those neat features will be of any use.  So in the case of the bootloader, it is not like it is a running binary on your system that can produce a threat, it is simply a bootloader that does its job, then quits.  So no matter what you are using, if it works and you are happy with it, I see little reason to change it.

I agree with this reasoning and that's why I feel justified. However, in my case, I'm fairly sure that I did try upgrading to grub2, but there was some problem - I don't think there was enough space in the MBR region to install the image - something like that, I can't remember the details, so I had to undo what I had done.

Trilby, thank you very much! I followed those steps, rebooted and everything was fine. Then I did a system upgrade, rebooted, everything is still fine. I also notice that grub-legacy on the AUR is currently being updated to reflect the /usr/bin change, so I'm clearly not the only one who is sticking with legacy grub, and anyone else who's in this minor predicament could probably use the AUR package instead if they want.

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#35 2013-06-04 20:41:59

Thaodan
Member
From: Dortmund, Nordrein-Westfalen
Registered: 2012-04-28
Posts: 432

Re: /usr/bin changes and grub legacy

WonderWoofy wrote:
Thaodan wrote:
WonderWoofy wrote:

Why is it that you feel as though you still need consolekit?  Are you not using systemd?

Lightdm -.-

I don't understand this.  The question was already answered, as in that particular case systemd is actually not in use.  I'm not entirely sure what lightdm has to do with anything here.

You asked why someone could use consolekit and I answered.


Linux odin 3.13.1-pf #1 SMP PREEMPT Wed Mar 5 21:47:28 CET 2014 x86_64 GNU/Linux

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#36 2013-06-04 20:53:40

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: /usr/bin changes and grub legacy

@Thaodin, I was asking shariebeth why he/she was using it, not for a general answer... besides, consolekit is deprecated and not even in the repos any longer.  So unless you are intentionally not following the recommendations of the Arch Linux devs, there is no reason whatsoever to be using consolekit, as it will cause more problems than it could possibly solve.  Even for lightdm... which I still do not entirely understand as being an answer to the question even if I was asking it in general.

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#37 2013-06-05 12:41:39

shariebeth
Member
From: South Florida
Registered: 2010-04-27
Posts: 77

Re: /usr/bin changes and grub legacy

**drumroll**
I now use dbus to call up my wm and I have removed consolekit from my system.
You may all now rest easy. wink

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#38 2013-06-06 21:13:46

liticovjesac
Member
From: Stockholm-Belgrade-Köln
Registered: 2008-07-16
Posts: 87

Re: /usr/bin changes and grub legacy

Hi,
i am very interested in this tread. I am running arch on macbook x64 and this latest thing with /sbin gives me a headache. After I finnaly realised how to "fix" packages in whatever bin, there is another problem with grub that i cant solve.
I think that i still have old grub, not legacy since my version is grub-0.97-21. I look around and checked how to upgrade to grub2 or some other boot loader and everything seems very complicated, too many unknown abreviations, too complicated pocedure -> meaning hours of reading and research with uncertan result. I am afraid that i will brake my system if i try to change grub to something else. It seems easyer to do fresh install.
I tryed to install grub-legacy since i read that latest aur package should cover this bin changes but i am getting in dependencies circle with multilibs , removing gcc ... So, it didnt work.
I would like to know if mentioned procedure of moving grub to /usr/bin will work in my case.
Second thing that I dont understand is that part with editing package in /var/lib/pacman/local/files. Could you , please give me example so that i can better understand?

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#39 2013-06-06 21:21:29

Trilby
Forum Moderator
From: Massachusetts, USA
Registered: 2011-11-29
Posts: 13,381
Website

Re: /usr/bin changes and grub legacy

liticovjesac wrote:

Second thing that I dont understand is that part with editing package in /var/lib/pacman/local/files. Could you , please give me example so that i can better understand?

Have you looked at the file?  Its just a text file with a list of file names.  Change the filenames to correspond with the files you moved.


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#40 2013-06-06 21:27:52

Ashren
Member
From: Denmark
Registered: 2007-06-13
Posts: 1,221
Website

Re: /usr/bin changes and grub legacy

What's the problem with grub legacy and the binsbinusrsbinusrbin merge?

I just moved the grub executables in /bin /sbin to /usr/bin and did the upgrade.

No ill effects whatsoever.

Last edited by Ashren (2013-06-06 21:30:43)

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#41 2013-06-06 21:38:53

liticovjesac
Member
From: Stockholm-Belgrade-Köln
Registered: 2008-07-16
Posts: 87

Re: /usr/bin changes and grub legacy

Trilby wrote:
liticovjesac wrote:

Second thing that I dont understand is that part with editing package in /var/lib/pacman/local/files. Could you , please give me example so that i can better understand?

Have you looked at the file?  Its just a text file with a list of file names.  Change the filenames to correspond with the files you movedwas .

Ok , it is obvious what u have to do once when u open right file smile  In my case there is more files which reside in sbin

bin/
bin/mbchk

sbin/
sbin/grub
sbin/grub-install
sbin/grub-md5-crypt
sbin/grub-set-default
sbin/grub-terminfo
sbin/install-grub

I guess that i should copy all of them to new location. Is that correct?

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#42 2013-06-06 22:08:42

Kinux
Member
Registered: 2010-06-05
Posts: 42

Re: /usr/bin changes and grub legacy

Thanks everone for this grub legacy modification. I upgraded two of my systems following this thread.

After moving grub files from /bin and /sbin to /usr/bin, I modified my "/var/lib/pacman/local/grub-0.97-21/files" to

usr/bin/mbchk
boot/
boot/grub/
boot/grub/menu.lst
usr/bin/
usr/bin/grub
usr/bin/grub-install
usr/bin/grub-md5-crypt
usr/bin/grub-set-default
usr/bin/grub-terminfo
usr/bin/install-grub

and everything worked fine.

Thanks again.

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#43 2013-06-06 22:43:49

cfr
Member
From: Cymru
Registered: 2011-11-27
Posts: 5,661

Re: /usr/bin changes and grub legacy

If you insist on doing it that way, you will need to move them and change the file listing appropriately.

But what problems did you run into switching to the AUR package? If you want to stay with grub legacy, it would be better to use that package which is maintained. So it will get upgraded if necessary to accommodate any future changes to the file system etc. (as long as somebody cares enough to maintain it, I mean).


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#44 2013-06-07 00:39:24

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: /usr/bin changes and grub legacy

@Ashren, the problem is that pacman 4.2 is probably not going to support files installed paths made of symlinks.  So in the future if you find you actually want ot need to remove the package/files for whatever reason, those files are now not tracked by the package manager.  There may be no "ill effects" now, but if you want a neat and tidy system, you should make those changes to the /var/lib/pacman/<package>/files list, so that it reflects correctly what is in your filesystem.


@cfr, I think the problems people might run into are that it requires multilib to be enabled, so that it can use the multilib versions of gcc, gcc-libs, and one other I cna't remember.

Last edited by WonderWoofy (2013-06-07 00:41:19)

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#45 2013-06-07 00:42:56

Scimmia
Bug Wrangler
Registered: 2012-09-01
Posts: 4,700

Re: /usr/bin changes and grub legacy

It looks like Allan's putting an upgrade path in that will search for invalid paths and correct them when you install 4.2, so it may not be such a problem. Still better to have the database be correct.

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#46 2013-06-07 00:44:48

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: /usr/bin changes and grub legacy

Yeah, I read that on the pacman-dev mailing list too.  But I think it is better to be safe than sorry, since no changes for pacman 4.2 are set in stone as of yet... 9 more days though!

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#47 2013-06-07 00:45:49

Scimmia
Bug Wrangler
Registered: 2012-09-01
Posts: 4,700

Re: /usr/bin changes and grub legacy

9 days for 4.1.2, not 4.2 smile

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#48 2013-06-07 00:48:47

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: /usr/bin changes and grub legacy

Yeah, that is what I meant... I think I have been typing 4.2 all over the place though...

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#49 2013-06-07 01:03:00

Scimmia
Bug Wrangler
Registered: 2012-09-01
Posts: 4,700

Re: /usr/bin changes and grub legacy

4.2 is correct for the removal of symlink support.

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#50 2013-06-07 01:48:09

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: /usr/bin changes and grub legacy

Ah, so I'm justtotally confused then!

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