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#26 2013-10-05 14:30:33

clfarron4
Member
From: London, UK
Registered: 2013-06-28
Posts: 2,162
Website

Re: Does your contribution to the forums give you an idea of your skills?

jasonwryan wrote:
cfr wrote:

Just Oxford only gives BAs. (For some reason best known to themselves.)


Obviously because the Sciences are subordinate to the Arts... tongue

I think many of the older universities in the UK (we are talking 100+ years old) only started awarding degrees in Sciences (as in BSc degrees over BA) in the last 100 years... I haven't a clue why, but hey.

Last edited by clfarron4 (2013-10-05 14:30:59)


Claire is fine.
Problems? I have dysgraphia, so clear and concise please.
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#27 2013-10-06 01:30:21

nomorewindows
Member
Registered: 2010-04-03
Posts: 3,015

Re: Does your contribution to the forums give you an idea of your skills?

ewaller wrote:

I am here for two reasons.

1. To help others freely with my knowledge of Linux.
2. To realize, on a daily basis, how much I don't know based on knowledge shared freely here by others.

Edit:  BTW, as one who hires (and fires) engineers, I could give a rip about certificates.  OTOH, a BS degree is imperative.

I wonder why it would take a "certified" rocket scientist to be able to run a corporate network or to change consumer grade electronic parts.  The certification process is not enough to just have one certification and its' done.  There is one certification after another it seems like to have in order to actually finish the certification process.  Even in the certification process there is something called a "brain dump".  Where you socialize with your colleages to be able to pass some certification test.  Could've mistaken a brain dump for leaving my brain somewhere I don't want it to be.  I'm not sure I don't do that already.  But in debating the certification process, this is now the entry requirement to be able to get these high-tech jobs.  Linux seems to be designed well enough to get the job done, so I'm contemplating whether the certification process is even feasible alongside all of the endless hours of the training videos you could watch just to learn how to not just use but captialize with the technology.  The certification process for the computer industry doesn't seem to match up with a certification process for some other industry.


I may have to CONSOLE you about your usage of ridiculously easy graphical interfaces...
Look ma, no mouse.

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#28 2013-10-06 02:12:37

bleach
Member
Registered: 2013-07-26
Posts: 223

Re: Does your contribution to the forums give you an idea of your skills?

you have to prove yourself either way but one that is certified has proof of qualification and thus a better chance in getting a foot in the door as they say.

not sure I understand the topic exactly but if I understand it I would say I do know what I know and not know but in what I think I know is only what has been proven to be true as in: it works. I would say a forum like this is a place to colaborate knowledge and experiences.

Last edited by bleach (2013-10-06 02:18:34)

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#29 2013-10-06 02:42:19

Proinsias
Member
From: Glasgow
Registered: 2013-08-19
Posts: 120

Re: Does your contribution to the forums give you an idea of your skills?

Of the few forums I'm on this is the one that I feel I can take a lot from but can't give much back, maybe one day. A majority of the posts contain apparently common knowledge which is beyond me, I'm hoping regular check ins alongside maintaining Arch as my main distro may alleviate this a little over time.

I came here to work with a distro I could gain a decent understanding of, it's working albeit slowly. What seems like ignorance of a small point often turns out to be a moment of clarity with a lot homework to go alongside it.

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#30 2013-10-06 13:08:15

nomorewindows
Member
Registered: 2010-04-03
Posts: 3,015

Re: Does your contribution to the forums give you an idea of your skills?

Objectively the forums and the certifications should show the same demonstrated ability, but some are not sure the latter always shows the demonstrated ability.  Arch is the bleeding edge, which means things break, and for that reason many would not consider using it for maximum uptime; there are parts of it that would be mutually exclusive, and other parts unchanged.  The consensus of the Arch community, is that certification not required, but demonstrated ability to make it what you want it.  Certification brings to mind a regimented expectation.


I may have to CONSOLE you about your usage of ridiculously easy graphical interfaces...
Look ma, no mouse.

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#31 2013-10-06 15:25:16

cfr
Member
From: Cymru
Registered: 2011-11-27
Posts: 5,670

Re: Does your contribution to the forums give you an idea of your skills?

nomorewindows wrote:

The consensus of the Arch community, is that certification not required...

Not required for what?


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#32 2013-10-06 17:06:17

henk
Member
From: Weert, Netherlands
Registered: 2013-01-01
Posts: 332

Re: Does your contribution to the forums give you an idea of your skills?

I think nomorewindows is trying to explain, that you dont have to be someone who is obviously marked as a linux-expert (certification) to try to help people on the forums.
It is more about the way these people show/have shown their ability to maintain their system to their own likings.

Last edited by henk (2013-10-06 17:07:15)

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#33 2013-10-06 17:18:52

Awebb
Member
Registered: 2010-05-06
Posts: 4,527

Re: Does your contribution to the forums give you an idea of your skills?

nomorewindows wrote:

The aesthetics of Architecture is more important than the underlying Engineer.

Fixed that quote for you, if you don't mind.

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#34 2013-10-06 21:39:24

nomorewindows
Member
Registered: 2010-04-03
Posts: 3,015

Re: Does your contribution to the forums give you an idea of your skills?

henk wrote:

I think nomorewindows is trying to explain, that you dont have to be someone who is obviously marked as a linux-expert (certification) to try to help people on the forums.
It is more about the way these people show/have shown their ability to maintain their system to their own likings.

If it weren't for the gratuity (term loosely) of AT&T, we might all be required to have a certification just to turn on the leased equipment.  No doubt that AT&T is getting it back in spades through bundling and mobile internet.  All might have been lost if RMS hadn't come on the scene. 

Awebb wrote:
nomorewindows wrote:

The aesthetics of Architecture is more important than the underlying Engineer.

Fixed that quote for you, if you don't mind.

The engineer designs to the specifications, and the architect might possibly compromise the design to be more appealing.


I may have to CONSOLE you about your usage of ridiculously easy graphical interfaces...
Look ma, no mouse.

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#35 2013-10-07 12:51:58

nomorewindows
Member
Registered: 2010-04-03
Posts: 3,015

Re: Does your contribution to the forums give you an idea of your skills?

bleach wrote:

you have to prove yourself either way but one that is certified has proof of qualification and thus a better chance in getting a foot in the door as they say.

cfr wrote:
nomorewindows wrote:

The consensus of the Arch community, is that certification not required...

Not required for what?

It would seem that the certification process would otherwise be inevitable.  That's what people would be looking for, but the linux community is just for those capable of managing their own with a little help from their friends.  But it would seem that the computer would be more capable than just what the telco would be using it for.


I may have to CONSOLE you about your usage of ridiculously easy graphical interfaces...
Look ma, no mouse.

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#36 2013-10-07 14:28:25

ANOKNUSA
Member
Registered: 2010-10-22
Posts: 2,141

Re: Does your contribution to the forums give you an idea of your skills?

nomorewindows wrote:

If it weren't for the gratuity (term loosely) of AT&T, we might all be required to have a certification just to turn on the leased equipment.  No doubt that AT&T is getting it back in spades through bundling and mobile internet.  All might have been lost if RMS hadn't come on the scene.

nomorewindows wrote:

It would seem that the certification process would otherwise be inevitable.  That's what people would be looking for, but the linux community is just for those capable of managing their own with a little help from their friends.  But it would seem that the computer would be more capable than just what the telco would be using it for.

You still haven't answered cfr's question.  What certification process are you talking about?  Why would it be inevitable? Telecom companies don't control, and have never controlled, the development of computers in general.  They may develop specifications for certain equipment, which engineers and manufacturers must then abide by; but from your posts, it seems like you're arguing that had the FOSS movement not come along, we'd all have to rent our computers from our ISPs. 

This is illogical, as computer hardware and software don't have a one-to-one relationship, as demonstrated by the sheer variety of hardware, programming languages, approaches to software and hardware engineering, and implementation. Historically speaking, that's false; AT&T may have had dibs on UNIX a few decades back, but neither they nor the telecommunications industry at large ever had tight control of the development of computing and information technology. 

Software and hardware development may be rooted in the same scientific and mathematical principles, but they aren't inextricably bound to each other, and so the strength of a company's hold over a particular operating system is only so strong as the ignorance or ineptitude of that company's clients and customers.The mere existence of GNU/Linux, and fact that  Linus Torvalds, Richard Stallman, et al. were capable of creating a POSIX-compliant UNIX clone without help from AT&T, belies that notion.  For that matter, plenty of Windows, Mac, Windows Mobile and iOS hackers have shown that Microsoft's and Apple's grip on their own properties isn't as iron-fisted as they would like it to be. It demonstrates that, given the means, knowledge and determination, people can find solutions to problems that otherwise powerful opposition may not want solved.  Inevitability hardly seems to be the case here.

But, I digress. tongue My time on these forums has taught me that I always have a hell of a lot more to learn than I might think.  My one-afteroon project last weekend was supposed to be setting up a private mailserver at home with a private domain. Yeah right, one-afternoon project...

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#37 2013-10-07 15:50:35

nomorewindows
Member
Registered: 2010-04-03
Posts: 3,015

Re: Does your contribution to the forums give you an idea of your skills?

Even though there is a Linux+ certification,  I might consider taking the Linux+ in lieu of A+ and Network+, and maybe some others, but even these certifications don't even apply when it comes to taking Cisco, Microsoft, or even Novell's certifications.  I, like most of the Arch community which is its' own thing, don't really see any need for certifications.  Most of the rewarding experience to be able to pass it onto someone who needs help is sufficient.  From a practical level, this is what most users of computer systems want.  They aren't always interested in all of the technical details, just what is it that the computer or the problem existing between the keyboard and the chair is doing wrong.  This was kind of the way it was in a programming class.  But going back to the days of AT&T and UNIX, that's the way it was.  I'm having trouble figuring out the benefit of having the certification in there.


I may have to CONSOLE you about your usage of ridiculously easy graphical interfaces...
Look ma, no mouse.

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#38 2013-10-08 00:20:30

nomorewindows
Member
Registered: 2010-04-03
Posts: 3,015

Re: Does your contribution to the forums give you an idea of your skills?

Ironically, it was the certification process I was working on when I decided I wasn't sure if I wanted to persue it, that I started looking into Linux and found I liked it much more.  Anyways, even though the certification process was part of the original question I was happy to hear about how the forums gave many people their measure of success.


I may have to CONSOLE you about your usage of ridiculously easy graphical interfaces...
Look ma, no mouse.

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#39 2013-10-19 14:14:01

nomorewindows
Member
Registered: 2010-04-03
Posts: 3,015

Re: Does your contribution to the forums give you an idea of your skills?

ANOKNUSA wrote:

Software and hardware development may be rooted in the same scientific and mathematical principles, but they aren't inextricably bound to each other, and so the strength of a company's hold over a particular operating system is only so strong as the ignorance or ineptitude of that company's clients and customers.The mere existence of GNU/Linux, and fact that  Linus Torvalds, Richard Stallman, et al. were capable of creating a POSIX-compliant UNIX clone without help from AT&T, belies that notion.  For that matter, plenty of Windows, Mac, Windows Mobile and iOS hackers have shown that Microsoft's and Apple's grip on their own properties isn't as iron-fisted as they would like it to be. It demonstrates that, given the means, knowledge and determination, people can find solutions to problems that otherwise powerful opposition may not want solved.  Inevitability hardly seems to be the case here.

Where did the University of California-Berkeley -- *BSDs come into this?


I may have to CONSOLE you about your usage of ridiculously easy graphical interfaces...
Look ma, no mouse.

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#40 2013-10-19 14:45:32

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: Does your contribution to the forums give you an idea of your skills?

nomorewindows, you really really need to learn to use the edit button.

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#41 2014-08-20 19:29:55

nomorewindows
Member
Registered: 2010-04-03
Posts: 3,015

Re: Does your contribution to the forums give you an idea of your skills?

Looks like the Linux foundation has come up with a new certification process for Linux.  Maybe this is an upgrade from the current one (LPC)?        Not sure what we need it for.


I may have to CONSOLE you about your usage of ridiculously easy graphical interfaces...
Look ma, no mouse.

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#42 2014-08-21 09:20:42

clfarron4
Member
From: London, UK
Registered: 2013-06-28
Posts: 2,162
Website

Re: Does your contribution to the forums give you an idea of your skills?

nomorewindows wrote:

Looks like the Linux foundation has come up with a new certification process for Linux.  Maybe this is an upgrade from the current one (LPC)?

Not sure what we need it for.

There seems to be a move to building qualifications in lots of little steps. Either way, I think I should probably take it, to get my foot on the ladder of Linux qualifications.


Claire is fine.
Problems? I have dysgraphia, so clear and concise please.
My public GPG key for package signing
My x86_64 package repository

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#43 2014-08-21 18:22:34

MoonSwan
Member
From: Great White North
Registered: 2008-01-23
Posts: 873

Re: Does your contribution to the forums give you an idea of your skills?

ewaller wrote:

I am here for two reasons.

1. To help others freely with my knowledge of Linux.
2. To realize, on a daily basis, how much I don't know based on knowledge shared freely here by others.

I am in ewaller's camp.  Everytime I visit this forum I am confronted with ewaller's second statement. I would like to add an addendum to that point:  because of that realization I quite often feel like a fool among geniuses here.  But, on the bright side, I do try to help others with what little knowledge I have and share ewaller's philosophy of freely helping others on this board.  And, once in a while, I actually succeed and get the satisfaction of seeing a post marked [Solved].  big_smile

Edit:  apparently I've responded to an ancient post.  My apologies and see the part when I said I feel like a fool ...

Last edited by MoonSwan (2014-08-21 18:24:06)


I'm torn apart between worlds. Basically, using vim in a highly visual environment with a lot of mouse features feels like soldering a lose wire to a motherboard with a Zippo and a needle, while working with ANY TEXT AT ALL with a "modern GUI" text editor feels like joining the London Philharmonic Orchestra with a Fisher-Price Laugh and Learn Magical Musical Mirror.  --Awebb

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#44 2014-08-21 20:00:29

nomorewindows
Member
Registered: 2010-04-03
Posts: 3,015

Re: Does your contribution to the forums give you an idea of your skills?

MoonSwan wrote:

Edit:  apparently I've responded to an ancient post.  My apologies and see the part when I said I feel like a fool ...

It's not totally ancient, it's kinda ongoing.


I may have to CONSOLE you about your usage of ridiculously easy graphical interfaces...
Look ma, no mouse.

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#45 2014-08-21 22:31:33

Awebb
Member
Registered: 2010-05-06
Posts: 4,527

Re: Does your contribution to the forums give you an idea of your skills?

It's indeed one of those social threads, that can be dug up once or twice a year. Reading old posts here paints an interesting picture.

Back on track... I have been away from Arch more or less for a while, I did not have much use for computers besides videogames, so all I used Arch for was my media center. I used the forums to keep my skills awake. Dealing with random problems I have never dealt with before, looking up wikis, reproducing errors in a VM or reading source code and PKGBUILD's really helped me to not forget everything I had learned over the years.

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#46 2014-09-05 13:05:53

nomorewindows
Member
Registered: 2010-04-03
Posts: 3,015

Re: Does your contribution to the forums give you an idea of your skills?

The funny part is that Novell's NetWare was actually capable of getting a b2/c2 orange book certification.  M$NT could maybe possibly get a c2 certification.  And with a rolling release distro like Arch, getting one of these certifications would be impossible.  Even getting a certification for an outdated *nix by even a day would void getting any certification.  So I can't figure out is why you would need to get a certification for an OS that itself would be expensive and difficult to even get a certification for.


I may have to CONSOLE you about your usage of ridiculously easy graphical interfaces...
Look ma, no mouse.

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#47 2015-01-16 02:15:10

nomorewindows
Member
Registered: 2010-04-03
Posts: 3,015

Re: Does your contribution to the forums give you an idea of your skills?

Hmm...if an organization hires an IT guy to run the network, then what difference would it actually matter to the organization whether they use Linux or Windows?  It seems that more people know how to use the Windows machines, other than the IT people who would have to maintain it.  I  find Linux much easier to maintain when things are set just right.  Some organizations use Windows Server without the need for Active Directory.  That would be cost ineffective I would think for something that doesn't get used, but the capability is there.  I keep hearing stories of Windows Servers having to be rebooted on sometimes a daily or weekly basis, taking down the whole network.  What does a certification buy chasing after mysterious and difficult to find bugs?  The Linux people seem to know their stuff, and Linux is generous in giving any help as to what the problem might be, usually a casual inquiry, and don't feel the need, the need for the paper.


I may have to CONSOLE you about your usage of ridiculously easy graphical interfaces...
Look ma, no mouse.

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#48 2015-01-16 03:02:07

thiagowfx
Member
Registered: 2013-07-09
Posts: 532

Re: Does your contribution to the forums give you an idea of your skills?

Whoa, this topic is full of Arch Linux flood culture and history. I probably spent almost an hour by following the links in here. Bookmarked forever!

PS. Arch sucks.

--

ewaller wrote:

I am here for two reasons.

1. To help others freely with my knowledge of Linux.
2. To realize, on a daily basis, how much I don't know based on knowledge shared freely here by others.

I can't agree more with this.

Last edited by thiagowfx (2015-01-16 03:03:43)

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