[SOLVED] every window manager I have tried freezes

TheJaava · 2021-08-06 13:54:43

seth wrote:

The last journal shows a mostly error-free boot that lastes for ~2minutes

yea it was running fine but after i ran that journal command it froze trying to wake back up after going to sleep and had a huge tear across the whole screen with half the power down menu up and half the desktop up with two
big triangles across the screen sharing a side on the displays diagonal. but at that point the journal wouldn't be able to log it because the system was frozen.

seth wrote:

Aug 05 19:29:09 ProBook kwalletd5[419]: QStandardPaths: wrong permissions on runtime directory /tmp/xdg-runtime-1000, 0755 instead of 0700
Something™ sets a weird $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR and the target has bad permissions. I guess that's a ly-fuckup.

I haven't been using ly since

seth wrote:

Don't use ly…

is this something that ly might have set and it was not changed by kde and sddm when sddm started being my display manager? is this a serious error?

seth wrote:

hours later I had the computer sitting there for a minute and I didn't do anything to it. i was reading something on this laptop trying to troubleshoot. next time i looked at my faulty arch machine it was running memtest.
Do you have any means to control the boot? grub or efibootmgr?
The described incident though indicates a reboot and if that didn't happen by intervention, schedule or cat-incident, it's likely a power/cpu/memory-hardware problem. memtest86 freezing supports that explanation
=> How old is the device? Try booting a live system like grml, knoppix or the ubuntu live-installer from usb and see whether a completely different SW stack runs into the same issues…

I have grub installed as well as efibootmgr. for some reason grub is not what is starting when the machine is turned on though. grub does not come up until after i exit memtest. is that because of something efibootmgr is doing potentially? memtest was installed
to /efi/EFI/memtest86/memtestx64.efi (where /efi is the mountpoint for ESP) but i ran

sudo pacman -R memtest86-efi

so it shouldn't even be there anymore right?

as far as booting a live system goes. i did have my only flash drive set up with ventoy which i really like and several os distributions' isos but I was formatting it to update my uefi which i haven't done yet because i'm nervous about potentially messing up my computer since my directory structure doesn't look like they say it should on here. but doing it how they said to didn't work either. i also looked at this page and i have my flash drive set up as close to that as i could but the directory structure is different for me. how much harm could be done if i get this wrong and should i actually be worried or not?

this is an HP ProBook x360 440 G1 and I got it brand new from my university 3 years ago this month.

Last edited by TheJaava (2021-08-06 14:01:41)

TheJaava · 2021-08-06 14:08:34

seth wrote:

The described incident though indicates a reboot and if that didn't happen by intervention, schedule or cat-incident, it's likely a power/cpu/memory-hardware problem. memtest86 freezing supports that explanation

let me be more specific. memtest86 passed when i ran it all the way through. memtest froze on the menu when i was using the mouse the exit button. from then on i used the keyboard and it didn't freeze on me but i want it to stop loading up in the first place. it never did this before
even after i installed it. i used to have a grub countdown where it boots the last kernel i booted and i can esc into the menu if i want. that menu is where memtest should be run from but i must have messed it up when i was setting it up i guess. i don't know how. i'm trying to troubleshoot now

natervance · 2021-08-06 16:59:22

It sounds like your uefi is booting directly into memtest, skipping over grub (they can do that if you have such an entry in /boot/EFI). I'd recommend revisiting your boot order and making sure it's pointing to what you want. In my case I have it pointing to GRUB (and haven't installed memtest in the EFI-specific way). You can verify what efibootmgr thinks the lineup should be:

$ efibootmgr
BootCurrent: 0000
Timeout: 1 seconds
BootOrder: 0000,0003,0004
Boot0000* GRUB
Boot0003* Hard Drive
Boot0004* CD/DVD Drive

If BootOrder starts with your memtest rather than GRUB, then that solves that particular issue.

With regards to updating your uefi, I've actually found the experience to be rather pleasant, though mileage may vary depending on vendor. In my case, I just put the new image on a fat32 flash drive (not unpacked or anything), and then I can navigate to it from the uefi interface. From the sound of things, updating your uefi might be the next step.

TheJaava · 2021-08-06 20:35:54

Ok. wrong boot order. i fixed it and now usb is first and grub second. memtest 3rd. i'll update the bios later after i get off of work

TheJaava · 2021-08-10 06:19:07

seth wrote:

Try booting a live system like grml, knoppix or the ubuntu live-installer from usb and see whether a completely different SW stack runs into the same issues…

Live iso for kde manjaro, pop os 21, and kde ubuntu all freeze on my probook. i still haven't been able to successfully update the uefi, because it cannot find the .bin i downloaded from the hp website.
I'm putting it on the usb where it says it is looking for it, too.

TheJaava · 2021-08-10 07:54:39

I've installed windows on the machine and updated the uefi that way. after uefi update and restart, booting into all the linux iso's on my ventoy except for pure arch iso the system freezes. ok any ideas now? i can easily reinstall arch and i plan to but first I want to figure out why it is freezing on every operating system except for windows.

EDIT: school starts in 7 days so i'm going to be working on setting up my other laptop to be functional enough that i can at least use zoom because i will probably need it. but if someone posts on here with suggestions I will happily install arch on my probook to try any fixes you might suggest. this has to be a hardware issue since all the installers are freezing.

Last edited by TheJaava (2021-08-10 22:41:48)

CarbonChauvinist · 2021-08-11 13:00:15

Are you sure you don't get freezes in windows either? If it was a true hardware error you should get issues across all OSes. You should be able to boot into the UEFI and run a hardware diagnostics. Do that.

If the freezes do only happen in *nix Oses then more than likely it's related to some power-state/thermal issue I'd guess. On a lark try disabling Turbo in your BIOS/UEFI completely. Also check and see if HP has some advanced c-states that can be disabled in the BIOS/UEFI.

TheJaava · 2021-08-11 19:53:13

CarbonChauvinist wrote:

Are you sure you don't get freezes in windows either? If it was a true hardware error you should get issues across all OSes. You should be able to boot into the UEFI and run a hardware diagnostics. Do that.
If the freezes do only happen in *nix Oses then more than likely it's related to some power-state/thermal issue I'd guess. On a lark try disabling Turbo in your BIOS/UEFI completely. Also check and see if HP has some advanced c-states that can be disabled in the BIOS/UEFI.

EDIT: what do you mean by "on a lark try disabling Turbo".

I have already run memtest86 and it passed. I guess I could run the memory test for windows but I trust memtest86 and the windows hard drive test just finished. it passed.

I did see one link on the wiki about a potential fix for HP computers freezing (way back in this thread you can probably find it) where I used a kernel parameter to disable those cstates. I don't know how to check if my computer actually needs that but I tried the fix and it didn't work. As far as freezing in windows goes: I used this computer throughout my freshman year in college running windows. I only looked into converting it to linux when I was doing research over the spring semester and over the summer and to interact with the university computers I needed to ssh. I started using mobaxterm like my fellow researchers but I decided I wanted to switch my entire computer.

I used zoom, software to simulate complex protein structures (visually, the actual calculations were done remotely of course), visual studio, and a lot of other software that were visually demanding. This did not cause an issue for windows, though. I never once got a freeze. But thinking back now it struck me that I have never gotten a unix/linux system running any x or wayland graphics on this machine for more than 5 minutes before it froze. My second laptop, the one I'm setting up now because my other laptop isn't working, has run kubuntu, plasma on manjaro, arch linux with dwm, and what i'm currently running on it arco linux with xmonad.

So there's just one more thing to check in that list unless I did something wrong when I added the kernel parameter for cstates=0 (i think the exact parameter I used in grub was kernel.cstates=0 but I don't have that grub config anymore because I installed windows on top to update the bios)

Last edited by TheJaava (2021-08-11 20:02:32)

CarbonChauvinist · 2021-08-12 12:56:00

I mean just that, try disabling turbo boost. This can be done through the BIOS/UEFI (normally under performance or power options). It can also be done when booted into the system -- as always reference the wiki for instructions.

You can also try disabling intel_pstate, by passing `intel_pstate=disable` as a kernel parameter during boot. This will make your system use the acpi-cpurfreq driver instead.

I had a similar issue once with a skylake system that would freeze under any linux distro tried. I could get much better behavior by disabling pstate but would still get intermittent freezes. Disabling Turbo completely solved the issue for me.

You're probably not seeing the exact same issue as for me it would consistently freeze during boot as well. But your symptoms are so similar it's worth trying to see if it moves the needle at all.

TheJaava · 2021-08-12 16:36:42

CarbonChauvinist wrote:

I mean just that, try disabling turbo boost. This can be done through the BIOS/UEFI (normally under performance or power options). It can also be done when booted into the system -- as always reference the wiki for instructions.
You can also try disabling intel_pstate, by passing `intel_pstate=disable` as a kernel parameter during boot. This will make your system use the acpi-cpurfreq driver instead.
I had a similar issue once with a skylake system that would freeze under any linux distro tried. I could get much better behavior by disabling pstate but would still get intermittent freezes. Disabling Turbo completely solved the issue for me.
You're probably not seeing the exact same issue as for me it would consistently freeze during boot as well. But your symptoms are so similar it's worth trying to see if it moves the needle at all.

ok i just finished reinstalling arch on my system and as of right now i'm not getting any freezes. i haven't done anything to the system like disabling turbo.
I am just booting with grub with no kernel parameters and only a couple aesthetic configuration differences, still updating intel microcode at boot, running light dm unconfigured, which starts xmonad. Xmonad config is barebones too. I just changed
border width to how I usually like it and the terminal and all that.

What I might have done differently:
so this time I took note of

CarbonChauvinist wrote:

Most suggestions are to NOT install xf86-video-intel and fall back to modesetting driver (this means remove xf86-video-intel AND the /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-intel.conf file you created)

and did not install any video drivers this time and just let the system fall back on modesetting. I didn't install mesa or vesa.
I installed the entire xorg-apps group. It might be unnecessary but who knows what I'll need it for.
I had a full night of sleep when i installed it this time. Last time i installed i had been debugging my system almost nonstop for a few days and not sleeping well. Still I thought my config was fine.

I'm not saying the system is fixed. It just hasn't frozen yet. I want to try and break it and fail before I feel confident that it is working properly. Then I will mark as solved.

((EDIT: so far it has frozen once. this time it's not in a session when it freezes and instead lightdm froze with the screen torn. rebooted but hard reboot means i can't get you the journal to debug why that happened. back when i have more info))

Last edited by TheJaava (2021-08-12 16:56:53)

TheJaava · 2021-08-12 17:49:04

ok update. lightdm freezes now. i can't get into the system at all because it freezes with a black screen and mouse cursor like it was before but now it does it as soon as it boots up with lightdm. i can't access tty. i don't know how to get into the computer at all. xmonad has not frozen on me at all. granted my config is extremely basic, so there isn't much it's doing. my next step is to try the two suggestions CarbonChauvinist had but i need to get into my system first.

Last edited by TheJaava (2021-08-12 17:49:33)

TheJaava · 2021-08-12 18:31:13

CarbonChauvinist wrote:

I mean just that, try disabling turbo boost. This can be done through the BIOS/UEFI (normally under performance or power options).

Disabling Turbo boost did not give me any difference.

It can also be done when booted into the system -- as always reference the wiki for instructions.

looked through that wiki page. there's some good info on there. i saw that Sandy Bridge and newer intel cpus sometimes have issues with max_cstate setting with the intel_idle driver. i had tried that before but i tried that again

GRUB_CMD_LINUX="intel_idle.max_cstate=0"

You can also try disabling intel_pstate, by passing `intel_pstate=disable` as a kernel parameter during boot. This will make your system use the acpi-cpurfreq driver instead.

Added that to kernel parameters. No difference I can see.

So as of right now: in my uefi settings turbo is not checked, and in /etc/default/grub GRUB_CMD_LINUX="intel_idle.max_cstate=0 intel_pstate=disable"
I am still getting freezing when lightdm tries to display. I get a black screen with a mouse. No tty access.

seth · 2021-08-12 20:28:59

Let it cool down, boot "nomodeset", make sure you're lmsensors installed and configured and keep an eye on temperature and fan behavior.
If you can, configure the BIOS to configure temperature management instead of handing it to the OS.

TheJaava · 2021-08-14 07:13:19

seth wrote:

If you can, configure the BIOS to configure temperature management instead of handing it to the OS.

I can't.

sensors | ixio

-> temperatures seem fine. of course, my computer isn't doing much having booted with nomodeset kernel param and having disabled lightdm.service it was in a shell. but it freezes before i can do anything if i don't boot nomodeset. i believe my lm-sensors is set up correctly too

seth · 2021-08-14 07:27:43

Does this happen if you keep the system on external power supply rather than on the battery (which looks mildly under-volted)

And on the other theory: do the fans spin up during regular use?

TheJaava · 2021-08-14 07:42:10

With the charger plugged in, it still freezes with a black screen and mouse cursor before lightdm can even render the greeter prompt. The fans did spin a lot before, but I just figured that was because of how I was turning the computer on and off booting and rebooting repeatedly because it kept freezing and I had been doing this for several hours.

Also what's up with how I could use xmonad and light dm just fine for a while and then when it froze in lightdm one time, it's been freezing ever since?

seth · 2021-08-14 07:49:59

Are we misinterpreting the lightdm condition?
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/LightD … TTY_output
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Kernel … _KMS_start

Edit: and since we're at it, I'll also throw in https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Haveged

Last edited by seth (2021-08-14 07:50:35)

TheJaava · 2021-08-14 18:46:48

Ok, I checked out those three links. I didn't bother with haveged because in the article it said to run

cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail | less

which printed 1811. I assumed that was fine, it suggested getting haveged if the available entropy was <1000.

in /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf, i added

logind-check-graphical=true

in /etc/mkinitcpio.conf, i added

MODULES=(intel_agp i915)

I then ran

sudo mkinitcpio -P

The regeneration was successful except for 4 possible missing firmware packages. I don't know if they're a big deal. If you think they might be I can pipe the output into ix and paste the link here.

Anyway, there wasn't any difference on startup. Still freezing the entire system with just a mouse cursor and a black screen when lightdm starts up.

seth · 2021-08-14 22:19:08

I don't know if they're a big deal.

No.

I assumed that was fine

Yeah, but that was during a "good" boot?

freezing the entire system with just a mouse cursor and a black screen

The OP said that you can move the cursor, is that still the case?
Because in that case nothing would be "frozen" - you just don't get to see the lightdm greeter.

TheJaava · 2021-08-15 08:35:56

no once it freezes i cannot move the mouse. now it boots and lightdm renders a black mouse cursor but the rest of the screen is still completely black. And it freezes. No tty. I don't have sysrq installed since the newest install, but I learned before that the whole system is frozen and sysrq wouldn't work either. I'm pretty sure this is going on. Somehow X and Wayland rendering graphics for any short amount of time freezes my entire system.

The boot that was a "good" boot was where I timed the blinking cursor right when the screen went black I hit ctrl+alt+f2 and got into tty. So basically I got into tty right before it freezes. It freezes instantly now. The first boot when I installed lightdm and xmonad it booted let me sign in and play around with the configs for like 20 minutes. Then on around the sixth time restarting the machine it just froze a couple seconds in. And to the point where now it instantly freezes. so if you consider escaping to tty right before it instantly freezes good for debugging then yea.

Alad · 2021-08-15 12:19:59

I had a laptop that behaved like that, the only solution was to disable hardware acceleration entirely. For example you can try

Section "Device"
  Identifier "Intel Graphics"
  Driver "intel"
  Option "NoAccel" "true"
EndSection

or instead of NoAccel,

Option "DRI" "False"

in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-noaccel.conf.

Last edited by Alad (2021-08-15 12:20:41)

seth · 2021-08-15 12:33:43

For the modesetting driver that would be

Option "AccelMethod" "none"

Can you bypass the battery (remove it) and run on the external power supply directly?
Alternatively, strip/deactivate power consuming devices, underclock the CPU or RAM or anything like this?
(The entire thing still smells power related, though the HP probooks come w/ only 11.41V)

TheJaava · 2021-08-15 13:53:08

seth wrote:

For the modesetting driver that would be
Option "AccelMethod" "none"

Ok. I found more details here

Then I ran lspci to get the bus id for my intel graphics which was 00:02.0, and I created /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-noaccel.conf

Section "Device"
	Identifier "intel"
	Driver "modesetting"
	BusID "pci:0@0:2:0"
	Option "AccelMethod" "none"
EndSection

Alad wrote:

or instead of NoAccel,
Option "DRI" "False"

What's the difference?

TheJaava · 2021-08-15 14:03:10

when i first powered it on it was still freezing. might be a coincidence and it might not but since i added 20-noaccel it hasn't frozen yet on me but lightdm just loads into an xmonad but it's just a black screen and alt+enter isn't opening a terminal. i'm just moving a mouse in a black screen. i logged into tty2 and ran htop just to be sure and it shows a lightdm session child, xorg and xmonad all running

seth · 2021-08-15 14:11:48

Misconfigured?
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Xmonad … _shortcuts

Can you start

xterm --display :0

from tty2?

Arch Linux

#26 2021-08-06 13:54:43

Re: [SOLVED] every window manager I have tried freezes

#27 2021-08-06 14:08:34

Re: [SOLVED] every window manager I have tried freezes

#28 2021-08-06 16:59:22

Re: [SOLVED] every window manager I have tried freezes

#29 2021-08-06 20:35:54

Re: [SOLVED] every window manager I have tried freezes

#30 2021-08-10 06:19:07

Re: [SOLVED] every window manager I have tried freezes

#31 2021-08-10 07:54:39

Re: [SOLVED] every window manager I have tried freezes

#32 2021-08-11 13:00:15

Re: [SOLVED] every window manager I have tried freezes

#33 2021-08-11 19:53:13

Re: [SOLVED] every window manager I have tried freezes

#34 2021-08-12 12:56:00

Re: [SOLVED] every window manager I have tried freezes

#35 2021-08-12 16:36:42

Re: [SOLVED] every window manager I have tried freezes

#36 2021-08-12 17:49:04

Re: [SOLVED] every window manager I have tried freezes

#37 2021-08-12 18:31:13

Re: [SOLVED] every window manager I have tried freezes

#38 2021-08-12 20:28:59

Re: [SOLVED] every window manager I have tried freezes

#39 2021-08-14 07:13:19

Re: [SOLVED] every window manager I have tried freezes

#40 2021-08-14 07:27:43

Re: [SOLVED] every window manager I have tried freezes

#41 2021-08-14 07:42:10

Re: [SOLVED] every window manager I have tried freezes

#42 2021-08-14 07:49:59

Re: [SOLVED] every window manager I have tried freezes

#43 2021-08-14 18:46:48

Re: [SOLVED] every window manager I have tried freezes

#44 2021-08-14 22:19:08

Re: [SOLVED] every window manager I have tried freezes

#45 2021-08-15 08:35:56

Re: [SOLVED] every window manager I have tried freezes

#46 2021-08-15 12:19:59

Re: [SOLVED] every window manager I have tried freezes

#47 2021-08-15 12:33:43

Re: [SOLVED] every window manager I have tried freezes

#48 2021-08-15 13:53:08

Re: [SOLVED] every window manager I have tried freezes

#49 2021-08-15 14:03:10

Re: [SOLVED] every window manager I have tried freezes

#50 2021-08-15 14:11:48

Re: [SOLVED] every window manager I have tried freezes

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