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#26 2023-02-02 07:17:40

seth
Member
Registered: 2012-09-03
Posts: 52,238

Re: Cannot start Xserver on new install of Arch Linux

Boot w/o that parameter - it doesn't matter tha you "see a black screen"

The machine freezes.

How do you determine that? Can you reboot the "frozen" machine w/ ctrl+alt+del?
Can you ssh into the "frozen" machine (please don't say that you don't run sshd.service, enable it)?
Can you reboot using https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Keyboa … el_(SysRq) ?

You then reboot w/ the parameter and from that working boot post the journal of the *previous* boot, that's what "-b -1" does.

Do you still have troubles to understand the approach?

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#27 2023-02-02 07:43:48

d.ALT
Member
Registered: 2019-05-10
Posts: 920

Re: Cannot start Xserver on new install of Arch Linux

dkuhlman wrote:

I see a black screen.  The machine freezes.  It aborts the boot process.  It does not boot.  I cannot run Linux.

Are you absolutely sure ArchLinux is indeed actually not completing the whole boot phase? Maybe you're not reaching graphical.target, but boot has been completed.
Can you use another computer and gahter logs via ssh?


Also:

V1del wrote:

Your card is Terascale but mistakenly detected to potentially be amdgpu compatible because AMD might have reused some VID:PIDs. Remove the radeon.modeset parameter and actually blacklist amdgpu. This really isn't much you're doing wrong here but a wonky assignment policy on AMDs part during the ATI <-> AMD transition phase.

So can you please boot into (old) Debian 10 Live? Confirm its graphical.target is working correctly and post here logs so that we can check radeon (with a realtively old kernel relase) actually handles (or NOT) your iGPU:

Debian wrote:
$ sudo lsmod

$ sudo lspci -vk

$ sudo dmesg

\\\


dkuhlman wrote:

I am using a desktop machine containing an
AMD A8-6600K with Radeon(tm) HD Graphics

How does your video connection is made from the motherboard's output to the monitor?
My (Arch) server runs an A8 APU like yours... I'll check its GPU drivers and try provide here some infos as soon as I can


<49,17,III,I>    Fama di loro il mondo esser non lassa;
<50,17,III,I>    misericordia e giustizia li sdegna:
<51,17,III,I>    non ragioniam di lor, ma guarda e passa.

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#28 2023-02-02 20:26:55

dkuhlman
Member
Registered: 2023-01-28
Posts: 28

Re: Cannot start Xserver on new install of Arch Linux

I apologize for being dense.  I did not realize that it was possible
for the machine to be alive after a black screen and freeze during
boot.  But, it does seem to be really unresponsive.

"quail" is the host name of the machine on which I have installed
Arch Linux.

When I try to boot quail without "radeon.modeset=0", then from
another machine, I cannot ping quail and I cannot connect to it via
ssh.  Here is what happens:

~ [22] ping -c 4 quail
PING quail (192.168.50.170) 56(84) bytes of data.
From scrubjay (192.168.50.236) icmp_seq=1 Destination Host Unreachable
From scrubjay (192.168.50.236) icmp_seq=2 Destination Host Unreachable
From scrubjay (192.168.50.236) icmp_seq=3 Destination Host Unreachable
From scrubjay (192.168.50.236) icmp_seq=4 Destination Host Unreachable

--- quail ping statistics ---
4 packets transmitted, 0 received, +4 errors, 100% packet loss, time 3034ms
pipe 3
~ [23] 
~ [23] ssh dkuhlman@quail
ssh: connect to host quail port 22: No route to host

On quail Alt+Ctrl+Del does nothing.  And the Alt+SysRq + REISUB does
nothing.  (although on my keyboard, the key is labelled PrintScreen
and not SysRq. So, I also tried Fn+Alt+SusRq + REISUB)

If I boot quail with "radeon.modeset=0", then from another machine I can
ping that machine (quail) and I can connect to it via ssh.

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#29 2023-02-02 21:07:51

seth
Member
Registered: 2012-09-03
Posts: 52,238

Re: Cannot start Xserver on new install of Arch Linux

Instead of "radeon.modeset=0" use "module_blacklist=radeon,amdgpu", see whether that allows you to boot.
If so, try

modprobe -v radeon

This should no longer throw the previous error. It might cause other errors and it might crash the kernel.

Also try to boot a different sw stack as suggested by d.Alt - the GPU is fairly old and might simply be fried.
(Did you somewhat recently use it w/ any other OS?)

Next to debian 10, here are a bunch or older grml releases: https://ftp.fau.de/grml/

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#30 2023-02-02 21:33:51

dkuhlman
Member
Registered: 2023-01-28
Posts: 28

Re: Cannot start Xserver on new install of Arch Linux

seth wrote:

Instead of "radeon.modeset=0" use "module_blacklist=radeon,amdgpu", see whether that allows you to boot.

I am able to boot with that.  Here is the results from modprobe:

dkuhlman ~ [1] sudo modprobe -v radeon
[sudo] password for root:
insmod /lib/modules/6.1.9-arch1-1/kernel/drivers/gpu/drm/radeon/radeon.ko.zst
modprobe: ERROR: could not insert 'radeon': Operation not permitted

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#31 2023-02-02 21:44:31

seth
Member
Registered: 2012-09-03
Posts: 52,238

Re: Cannot start Xserver on new install of Arch Linux

Can you disable secure boot in te BIOS/UEFI settings?

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#32 2023-02-02 22:06:32

dkuhlman
Member
Registered: 2023-01-28
Posts: 28

Re: Cannot start Xserver on new install of Arch Linux

On this same machine, I can boot Manjaro Linux.
Booting Manjaro, whenj I log on, I start the xfce4 desktop.
Under Manjaro I did this:

$ sudo journalctl -b -1 | curl -F 'file=@-' 0x0.st

Here is the result:
http://0x0.st/oCim.txt

Does that tell us anything we want to know?

Thanks again for help?

I have an MSI A88XM-35 mother board, according to the BIOS screen.
But, I cannot find any way to enable or disable secure boot.

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#33 2023-02-02 22:25:53

seth
Member
Registered: 2012-09-03
Posts: 52,238

Re: Cannot start Xserver on new install of Arch Linux

Manjaro (using the LTS kernel) doesn't load any kernel module for your GPU at all.
The journal also ends w/

Feb 02 10:41:09 quail systemd[1]: Starting Flush Journal to Persistent Storage...

and neither the multi-user nor the graphical.target are reached?

Booting Manjaro, whenj I log on, I start the xfce4 desktop.

There's no trace of that in the journal at all.
What do xorg log and output of "lspci -k" on manjaro look like?

seth in #7 wrote:

Edit: btw, does the LTS kernel work [on arch]?

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#34 2023-02-03 00:29:37

dkuhlman
Member
Registered: 2023-01-28
Posts: 28

Re: Cannot start Xserver on new install of Arch Linux

seth wrote:

What do xorg log and output of "lspci -k" on manjaro look like?

$ cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log | curl -F 'file=@-' 0x0.st

http://0x0.st/oC-H.txt

$ lspci -k | curl -F 'file=@-' 0x0.st                                                                                         

http://0x0.st/oC--.txt

I do not know how to boot an earlier version of the kernel.
I'll do some reading at the Arch Wiki.
If you have instructions or a link, that would be handy.

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#35 2023-02-03 06:42:01

Head_on_a_Stick
Member
From: London
Registered: 2014-02-20
Posts: 7,771
Website

Re: Cannot start Xserver on new install of Arch Linux

dkuhlman wrote:

I do not know how to boot an earlier version of the kernel

seth asked you to try the LTS kernel so install the linux-lts package and configure your bootloader to start that.

The Manjaro log shows the LTS kernel version with the radeon driver so that should also work in Arch.

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#36 2023-02-03 07:45:25

seth
Member
Registered: 2012-09-03
Posts: 52,238

Re: Cannot start Xserver on new install of Arch Linux

modprobe: ERROR: could not insert 'radeon': Operation not permitted

is btw. because the kernel option actually completely denies loading the module. If the LTS kernel doesn't get you anywhere, you'll need to try blackisting the radeon module using https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Kernel … probe.d/_2

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#37 2023-02-03 07:52:27

d.ALT
Member
Registered: 2019-05-10
Posts: 920

Re: Cannot start Xserver on new install of Arch Linux

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

The Manjaro log shows the LTS kernel version with the radeon driver so that should also work in Arch.

Indeed.


@dkuhlman: also worth giving kernel-lts (unofficial) repo a try.


<49,17,III,I>    Fama di loro il mondo esser non lassa;
<50,17,III,I>    misericordia e giustizia li sdegna:
<51,17,III,I>    non ragioniam di lor, ma guarda e passa.

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#38 2023-02-03 08:09:59

seth
Member
Registered: 2012-09-03
Posts: 52,238

Re: Cannot start Xserver on new install of Arch Linux

nb. that very sadly that repo is now unmaintained ( https://archlinux.org/news/in-memory-of … ernyhough/ )

Manjaro boots the 5.15.89 kernel, so 5.15.91 has a good chance of similar success and ultimately, we'll have to figure why the radeon module doesn't work for the OP in the current kernel.

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#39 2023-02-03 08:12:31

d.ALT
Member
Registered: 2019-05-10
Posts: 920

Re: Cannot start Xserver on new install of Arch Linux

seth wrote:

nb. that very sadly that repo is now unmaintained ( https://archlinux.org/news/in-memory-of … ernyhough/ )

... ... neutral sad


<49,17,III,I>    Fama di loro il mondo esser non lassa;
<50,17,III,I>    misericordia e giustizia li sdegna:
<51,17,III,I>    non ragioniam di lor, ma guarda e passa.

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#40 2023-02-03 09:01:48

V1del
Forum Moderator
Registered: 2012-10-16
Posts: 21,888

Re: Cannot start Xserver on new install of Arch Linux

From what I'm seeing there hasn't been any attempt to blacklist just amdgpu instead of radeon, which afaics would be the precondition here

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#42 2023-02-03 09:27:59

V1del
Forum Moderator
Registered: 2012-10-16
Posts: 21,888

Re: Cannot start Xserver on new install of Arch Linux

Whoops, sorry haven't had the morning coffee yet tongue

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#43 2023-02-03 20:20:44

dkuhlman
Member
Registered: 2023-01-28
Posts: 28

Re: Cannot start Xserver on new install of Arch Linux

Yes!  I had some success this morning.

After reviewing previous messages,
I tried booting with "module_blacklist=radeon".
(I'm pretty sure that I had tried  "module_blacklist=amdgpu" and
"module_blacklist=radeon,amdgpu", but maybe I had not tried to blacklist
"radeon" by itself.  I can't remember for sure.  Or, maybe I
mispelled it.

Using "module_blacklist=radeon", I was able to boot.

I tried to run startx.  It failed.

The log at /var/log/Xorg.0.log said "Failed to load module "fbdev".
So, I installed package xf86-video-fbdev.

Now startx gave no errors and startxfce4 started the xfce4 desktop.

It (the keyboard?) becomes unresponsive once in a while.
And, the resolution is very low -- 1024x768, I think, according to the
Display manager under Settings.  I'll have to work on that.  Are
there better video drivers that I should install, perhaps?

So, thank you very, very much, all of you, and especially seth,
for helping me do that.
No wonder lots of people like Arch Linux so much.  It's because of
support people like you.  I appreciate you.

Do I mark this solved?  If so, how do I do that?
Or, since I still have to boot with
"module_blacklist=radeon", should I report an issue?

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#44 2023-02-03 20:43:52

Head_on_a_Stick
Member
From: London
Registered: 2014-02-20
Posts: 7,771
Website

Re: Cannot start Xserver on new install of Arch Linux

dkuhlman wrote:

Are there better video drivers that I should install, perhaps?

Yes. The fbdev driver is non-accelerated so performance will be terrible.

Have you tried the LTS kernel? You should be using the radeon driver, just as with Manjaro. Do you not notice the drop in performance compared to that?

EDIT: and once more, please stop adding linebreaks. This isn't a mailing list.

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2023-02-03 20:44:31)

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#45 2023-02-03 20:51:34

seth
Member
Registered: 2012-09-03
Posts: 52,238

Re: Cannot start Xserver on new install of Arch Linux

Using "module_blacklist=radeon", I was able to boot.

That's been the status quo all along since radeon.modeset=0 achieves the same result. The driver can't load.

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#46 2023-02-03 23:02:09

dkuhlman
Member
Registered: 2023-01-28
Posts: 28

Re: Cannot start Xserver on new install of Arch Linux

I installed packages linux-lts and linux-lts-headers and linux-lts-docs.

I rebooted and then added "-lts" to the two bottom lines in the boot screen, but did not add "module_blacklist=radeon".
I boot (Ctrl-x) and after a few lines, I freeze at a black screen.

So, I restart, and this time I add "-lts" (twice) and I also add "module_blacklist=radeon".
It booted successfully. So I did this:

$ uname -a
Linux quail 5.15.91-1-lts #1 SMP Wed, 01 Feb 2023 09:32:49 +0000 x86_64 GNU/Linux

That shows that I have successfully booted Arch linux-lts, right?

Now I'm searching for a way to make the LTS kernel the default.  The results from Web searches that I do talk about files in "/boot/loader/", but I do not have that directory.

So, I guess, we have still not solved the problem with the video drivers.

But, using the LTS kernel, the keyboard does not become unresponsive in xfce4 after 10 minutes or so.

The screen resolution is still low.  The only option I have in Settings/Display/Resolution is 1024x768.

Last edited by dkuhlman (2023-02-03 23:06:15)

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#47 2023-02-03 23:13:03

seth
Member
Registered: 2012-09-03
Posts: 52,238

Re: Cannot start Xserver on new install of Arch Linux

Now I'm searching for a way to make the LTS kernel the default.

Depends on your bootmanager.

The screen resolution is still low.  The only option I have in Settings/Display/Resolution is 1024x768.

The fbdev driver isn't going to be a solution. Don't waste time on that.

I boot (Ctrl-x) and after a few lines, I freeze at a black screen.

Do you otherwise automatically start X11?

That shows that I have successfully booted Arch linux-lts, right?

Yes.

seth wrote:
modprobe: ERROR: could not insert 'radeon': Operation not permitted

is btw. because the kernel option actually completely denies loading the module. If the LTS kernel doesn't get you anywhere, you'll need to try blackisting the radeon module using https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Kernel … probe.d/_2

Edit:

pacman -Qs linux-firmware

Last edited by seth (2023-02-03 23:14:24)

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#48 2023-02-03 23:29:49

dkuhlman
Member
Registered: 2023-01-28
Posts: 28

Re: Cannot start Xserver on new install of Arch Linux

Following seth's advice, I added a file /etc/modprobe.d/videodrivers.conf containing the following:

blacklist radeon

When I reboot with LTS and without "module_blacklist=radeon", it freezes and won't boot.

Last edited by dkuhlman (2023-02-03 23:31:45)

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#49 2023-02-03 23:36:51

seth
Member
Registered: 2012-09-03
Posts: 52,238

Re: Cannot start Xserver on new install of Arch Linux

If the radeon module is in the initramfs, you'll have to rebuild it and also make sure that you've "modconf" in the HOOKS in your mkintcpio.conf

seth wrote:
pacman -Qs linux-firmware

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#50 2023-02-04 08:35:43

d.ALT
Member
Registered: 2019-05-10
Posts: 920

Re: Cannot start Xserver on new install of Arch Linux

Can't confirm graphical stack is working or not, because I have no X nor Wayland installed...
Anyway, here's logs from my server:

$ lscpu | grep Model
Model name:                      AMD A8-5500 APU with Radeon(tm) HD Graphics
Model:                           16

\\\

$ lsmod | grep radeon
radeon               1871872  1
drm_ttm_helper         16384  1 radeon
ttm                    86016  2 radeon,drm_ttm_helper

\\\

$ lspci -vk

00:01.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Trinity [Radeon HD 7560D] (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])
        Subsystem: Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. [MSI] Device 7721
        Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 44, IOMMU group 0
        Memory at c0000000 (32-bit, prefetchable) [size=256M]
        I/O ports at f000 [size=256]
        Memory at fef00000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=256K]
        Expansion ROM at 000c0000 [virtual] [disabled] [size=128K]
        Capabilities: <access denied>
        Kernel driver in use: radeon
        Kernel modules: radeon

\\\

local/linux-firmware 20230117.7e4f0ed-1
local/linux-firmware-whence 20230117.7e4f0ed-1
local/linux-lts 5.15.90-1

\\\

$ sudo dmesg | grep -i amd
[    0.006988] RAMDISK: [mem 0x36863000-0x37428fff]
[    0.007043] ACPI: IVRS 0x000000008DBEA670 000070 (v02 AMD    ANNAPURN 00000001 AMD  00000000)
[    0.007047] ACPI: SSDT 0x000000008DBEA6E0 000D40 (v01 AMD    ANNAPURN 00000001 AMD  00000001)
[    0.007050] ACPI: SSDT 0x000000008DBEB420 0004B7 (v02 AMD    ANNAPURN 00000001 MSFT 04000000)
[    0.007054] ACPI: CRAT 0x000000008DBEB8D8 0002A8 (v01 AMD    ANNAPURN 00000001 AMD  00000001)
[    0.335008] smpboot: CPU0: AMD A8-5500 APU with Radeon(tm) HD Graphics (family: 0x15, model: 0x10, stepping: 0x1)
[    0.335292] Performance Events: Fam15h core perfctr, AMD PMU driver.
[    0.425099] pci 0000:00:00.2: AMD-Vi: Found IOMMU cap 0x40
[    0.425105] AMD-Vi: Extended features (0x800000853): PreF PPR GT IA
[    0.425110] AMD-Vi: Interrupt remapping enabled
[    0.425740] perf: AMD IBS detected (0x000000ff)
[    0.444982] AMD-Vi: AMD IOMMUv2 loaded and initialized
[    0.448188] QUIRK: Enable AMD PLL fix
[    0.448227] ehci-pci 0000:00:12.2: applying AMD SB700/SB800/Hudson-2/3 EHCI dummy qh workaround
[    0.483509] ehci-pci 0000:00:13.2: applying AMD SB700/SB800/Hudson-2/3 EHCI dummy qh workaround

\\\

$ sudo dmesg | grep radeon
[    1.415009] [drm] radeon kernel modesetting enabled.
[    1.415215] radeon 0000:00:01.0: vgaarb: deactivate vga console
[    1.415709] radeon 0000:00:01.0: VRAM: 768M 0x0000000000000000 - 0x000000002FFFFFFF (768M used)
[    1.415713] radeon 0000:00:01.0: GTT: 1024M 0x0000000030000000 - 0x000000006FFFFFFF
[    1.415750] [drm] radeon: 768M of VRAM memory ready
[    1.415753] [drm] radeon: 1024M of GTT memory ready.
[    1.423419] [drm] radeon: dpm initialized
[    1.458431] radeon 0000:00:01.0: WB enabled
[    1.458434] radeon 0000:00:01.0: fence driver on ring 0 use gpu addr 0x0000000030000c00
[    1.458816] radeon 0000:00:01.0: fence driver on ring 5 use gpu addr 0x0000000000075a18
[    1.479005] radeon 0000:00:01.0: fence driver on ring 6 use gpu addr 0x0000000030000c18
[    1.479011] radeon 0000:00:01.0: fence driver on ring 7 use gpu addr 0x0000000030000c1c
[    1.479013] radeon 0000:00:01.0: fence driver on ring 1 use gpu addr 0x0000000030000c04
[    1.479015] radeon 0000:00:01.0: fence driver on ring 2 use gpu addr 0x0000000030000c08
[    1.479017] radeon 0000:00:01.0: fence driver on ring 3 use gpu addr 0x0000000030000c0c
[    1.479019] radeon 0000:00:01.0: fence driver on ring 4 use gpu addr 0x0000000030000c10
[    1.479287] radeon 0000:00:01.0: radeon: MSI limited to 32-bit
[    1.479338] radeon 0000:00:01.0: radeon: using MSI.
[    1.479360] [drm] radeon: irq initialized.
[    3.791417] [drm:dce6_audio_get_pin [radeon]] *ERROR* No connected audio pins found!
[    3.793540] fbcon: radeondrmfb (fb0) is primary device
[    3.903288] radeon 0000:00:01.0: [drm] fb0: radeondrmfb frame buffer device
[    3.957211] [drm] Initialized radeon 2.50.0 20080528 for 0000:00:01.0 on minor 0
[    5.428597] [drm:dce6_audio_get_pin [radeon]] *ERROR* No connected audio pins found!

\\\

# find /usr/ -iname "radeon*"
/usr/lib/modules/5.15.90-1-lts/kernel/drivers/gpu/drm/radeon
/usr/lib/modules/5.15.90-1-lts/kernel/drivers/gpu/drm/radeon/radeon.ko.zst
/usr/lib/firmware/radeon
/usr/include/linux/radeonfb.h

<49,17,III,I>    Fama di loro il mondo esser non lassa;
<50,17,III,I>    misericordia e giustizia li sdegna:
<51,17,III,I>    non ragioniam di lor, ma guarda e passa.

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