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#51 2008-02-29 11:16:59

dyscoria
Member
Registered: 2008-01-10
Posts: 1,007

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

Why not rock AND roll? tongue


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#52 2008-02-29 14:56:36

scarecrow
Member
From: Greece
Registered: 2004-11-18
Posts: 714

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

I usually recommend PCLOS to absolute Linux newbies, and Sidux to more adventurous souls. Ubuntu has become too naive for my taste since one year ago, or so.
Personally using Arch since June, 2004, and I don't think I will bother installing anything else for the foreseeable future. Once you get familiar with its intricacies it's blisteringly fast, braindead to administer, and (with AUR) having more software than the one I could ever handle.


Microshaft delenda est

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#53 2008-02-29 15:05:34

dyscoria
Member
Registered: 2008-01-10
Posts: 1,007

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

scarecrow wrote:

I usually recommend PCLOS to absolute Linux newbies

I really like PCLOS aswell and it's riding high at the moment, but it's still lagging behind Ubuntu in terms of architecture support (particularly significant is 64bit).


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#54 2008-02-29 18:52:44

schivmeister
Developer/TU
From: Singapore
Registered: 2007-05-17
Posts: 971
Website

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

You can never run away from hardware support. By paper and by practical statistics, Ubuntu has much more (which equates to better) support for a wider range of hardware. I stopped having PCLinuxOS as a top recommendation after 3 monitors in a day failed to work on their optimum resolutions. Ubuntu took its place and my friend was happy. I got some extra dough for the day too big_smile I'm assuming some people would come in at this point and say "hey, I had blah blah and Ubuntu went blah blah and then I put PCLinuxOS and I blah blah anymore" but please, it's just that you yourself are a failure - so failure + failure = pseudo/illusional success.

Last edited by schivmeister (2008-02-29 18:56:07)


I need real, proper pen and paper for this.

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#55 2008-03-02 22:02:07

Misfit138
Misfit Emeritus
From: USA
Registered: 2006-11-27
Posts: 4,170

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

The more users who come to GNU/Linux, the better, whether it is 'buntu, Arch or Slackware....
But-
What they are all missing is Arch's rolling release model. Combined with the high quality and quantity of Arch packages, the speed, expedience of package management, the simple design principles and community, Arch is very hard to beat for competent users.

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#56 2008-03-02 22:20:12

dyscoria
Member
Registered: 2008-01-10
Posts: 1,007

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

Misfit138 wrote:

The more users who come to GNU/Linux, the better, whether it is 'buntu, Arch or Slackware....
But-
What they are all missing is Arch's rolling release model. Combined with the high quality and quantity of Arch packages, the speed, expedience of package management, the simple design principles and community, Arch is very hard to beat for competent users.

But then we're missing the indisputed stability and/or architectural support of Debian, or the documentation of Gentoo (often regarded as the best), or for a new user the very quick learning curve of Ubuntu. No distro has everything.


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#57 2008-03-02 22:27:43

SiC
Member
From: Liverpool, England
Registered: 2008-01-10
Posts: 429

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

dyscoria wrote:

But then we're missing the indisputed stability and/or architectural support of Debian, or the documentation of Gentoo (often regarded as the best), or for a new user the very quick learning curve of Ubuntu. No distro has everything.

Very true, but a lot of users having used ubuntu or similar new-user oriented distributions will soon become fed up with the way ubuntu works. I tried it for a couple of days before it really started to annoy me. I know a lot of other people who have become similarly frustrated. Most switched back to windows.  Those who don't I have usually recommended slack to in the past, am now advising they switch to arch.

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#58 2008-03-02 22:43:03

dyscoria
Member
Registered: 2008-01-10
Posts: 1,007

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

SiC wrote:

Very true, but a lot of users having used ubuntu or similar new-user oriented distributions will soon become fed up with the way ubuntu works.

Most of the population of Windows users don't really know how Windows works and are limited to basic things like surfing, writing a document or using Limewire, without much knowledge or interest in the actual operating system. They generally wouldn't even know how to disable services. These types of people I don't think would care or even be aware of the way Ubuntu works, and this I feel is the population that really has the potential to benefit from Ubuntu, if not the slightly more knowledgable population also.


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#59 2008-03-05 15:56:03

chaosgeisterchen
Member
From: Kefermarkt, Upper Austria
Registered: 2006-11-20
Posts: 550

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

Once, there was a time, when using a computer was something done only by the elite social structure of software programmers and IT professionals, which were found rather rarely in smaller business, let alone the classical home environment. Nowadays, using a computer is a quite convenient thing to do. But understanding the computer (and the way it works) alongside using it at all still is something which is done only by the elite social structure of software programmers and IT professionals. Sure, a big group of advanced users has emerged throughout the years of computer widespreading, but those, who understand the fundamentals of what a computer really is and how the software actually works are amongst few...

Using a computer has become a task not necessarily more complicated than using a game console in earlier days.


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#60 2008-03-05 16:51:44

schivmeister
Developer/TU
From: Singapore
Registered: 2007-05-17
Posts: 971
Website

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

Precisely. That is why we have the hobbyists, the professionals, and the masses - users. Hobbyists include those with the interest, those with the passion. A user is definitely not a hobbyist, and thus will not harbour such interests.

A person buying a product may only care whether it fits the bill, not how it fits the bill.


I need real, proper pen and paper for this.

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#61 2008-03-05 17:48:29

derekr44
Member
From: Queen Creek, AZ
Registered: 2008-02-13
Posts: 52
Website

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

This is exactly my trip to Linux:

XP --> Wubi --> Ubuntu --> LinuxMint --> Arch

Wubi was great in the sense that it allowed me to run Ubuntu without screwing with my XP boot partition.  It allowed me to work out the kinks and get comfortable with Ubuntu.... and it was the simpleness of Ubuntu that got me hooked on Linux itlself.  Now I love Arch.


"Long separated by cruel fate, the star-crossed lovers raced across the grassy field toward each other like two freight trains, one having left Cleveland at 6:36 p.m. traveling at 55 mph, the other from Topeka at 4:19 p.m. at a speed of 35 mph." - Anonymous

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#62 2008-03-05 19:44:18

blu3ness
Member
From: Edmonton, Canada
Registered: 2007-12-28
Posts: 169

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

+1 with derek44 tongue


Archlinux on Compaq Presario v5000 laptop smile

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#63 2008-03-06 03:02:26

freakcode
Member
From: São Paulo - Brazil
Registered: 2007-11-03
Posts: 410
Website

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

I think there is a lot of potential for software based on Linux platform, and there are already some great softwares too. But it gets a company job like Cannonical to select the best of them for end users, put it all together on a comprehensible product, put some marketing on, ship it, and sell service and support.

In the end, it's good because makes the Linux platform widespread, so we must see more focus for developing great software on the platform; better hardware support from vendors; and market adoption of open standards, which creates a balanced ground where both individuals and big companies can develop upon, with less money and more cross-compatibility.

Of course, I'm talking about proprietary software for Linux here too, because I don't think free software is the _only_ true way. But having free software available is great, specially for base technologies (kernel, compilers, libraries), and them having great domain-specialized, FOSS or proprietary apps from quality vendors for multimedia authoring, video editing, and so on... That would make Linux kick ass, and I believe Linux is pretty close to reaching this level.

Last edited by freakcode (2008-03-06 03:04:09)

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#64 2008-03-06 05:01:22

Misfit138
Misfit Emeritus
From: USA
Registered: 2006-11-27
Posts: 4,170

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

dyscoria wrote:
Misfit138 wrote:

The more users who come to GNU/Linux, the better, whether it is 'buntu, Arch or Slackware....
But-
What they are all missing is Arch's rolling release model. Combined with the high quality and quantity of Arch packages, the speed, expedience of package management, the simple design principles and community, Arch is very hard to beat for competent users.

But then we're missing the indisputed stability and/or architectural support of Debian, or the documentation of Gentoo (often regarded as the best), or for a new user the very quick learning curve of Ubuntu. No distro has everything.

Well, in response, I would say that for a competent user, the learning curve is of little or no concern, really.
Furthermore, the rolling release and expedience of binary package management is such a beautiful implementation that I think it is a shame that it is so often overlooked. The simple yet profound fact that a user may install Arch once and never have to reinstall is, IMO, invaluable.
No matter how good another distro may be, and no matter how many innovations and features it offers, without a rolling release model I find them all to be lacking.
It is, of course, true that no distro has everything, but I find it quite hard to explain that so many of them require 6-12 month reinstalls or elaborate system upgrades requiring varying degrees of user interaction.
In the end, we are all using GNU/Linux, as I touched on briefly. I just think that embracing a rolling release model is such a fundamental advantage, I am baffled by its virtual nonexistence among distros.

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#65 2008-03-06 10:02:54

Arkane
Member
From: Switzerland
Registered: 2008-02-18
Posts: 263

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

As far as Ubuntu is concerned, the point is that they try to provide a high quality default configuration that immediately allows the user to get (ideally) the most of Linux. This means that this configuration must sometimes be rearranged a lot, when a new, better replacement appears for an existing feature, or when they want to add an entirely new one (like, for example, kvm virtualization tools in 8.04). Offering these new features to all users as part of the "default" would require an automated update, which would be a mess, replace all (or worse, only part) of their custom configuration. Generally speaking, forcing important feature changes as an "update" to the current system is probably a very bad idea.

Separate releases allow Ubuntu to offer, every 6 months, a coherent feature set making use of many recents developments in Linux software, without requiring any real work from the user.


That's also why Ubuntu is a good inspiration for users of other, more customizable distros. In each of their releases, they articulate a lot of "almost bleeding-edge" feature into a coherent whole that uses them effectively.

Last edited by Arkane (2008-03-06 10:18:21)


What does not kill you will hurt a lot.

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#66 2008-03-07 05:00:18

MONODA
Member
Registered: 2008-02-09
Posts: 256

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

i also love ubuntu but i think that linux mint or mandriva would be better for a complete noob even though i dont like them.

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#67 2008-03-10 08:57:10

k3rn31
Member
Registered: 2008-01-09
Posts: 145

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

I think that ubuntu is a good solution to have a light and easy stable "debian" distro but is for new users. For this community, I have to say that is the only community with so many ppl who can help you when you need it smile

I love this community and this distro smile


~k3rn31

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#68 2008-03-11 16:31:28

dyscoria
Member
Registered: 2008-01-10
Posts: 1,007

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

k3rn31 wrote:

For this community, I have to say that is the only community with so many ppl who can help you when you need it

Just had a brief epiphany:

From what I have experienced, most distros have a brilliant community. Most people will start with a noobish distro, using either GNOME or KDE. Let's say Ubuntu as an example. Here, the kind of help they need is really noob like questions, like "how do i install things?" and "what's open sauce, is it like ketchup?" as they gradually learn to use linux. Because many of the Ubuntu community don't generally have as good an understanding of linux (arguably) as say users of Gentoo, it doesn't matter as they can provide real noobs with plenty of help.

As the new user gradually moves onwards to slightly more difficult distros and slightly less bloated DE/WM's, the help they need is more complicated. However, generally the more difficult the distro, the higher the proportion of more knowledgable users. The quality of help they need is then matched by the potential help available.

And that's why i've always thought the community of each of the distros i've tried has been awesome. I progressed to more difficult distros before the quality of help that I needed exceeded that of the help available. I'm not saying I know more than everyone in the Ubuntu community (erm, i wish) but that a greater proportion of people can answer a difficult question more correctly and more fully in say the Arch or Gentoo forums.


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#69 2008-03-11 17:22:57

freakcode
Member
From: São Paulo - Brazil
Registered: 2007-11-03
Posts: 410
Website

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

dyscoria wrote:

As the new user gradually moves onwards to slightly more difficult distros and slightly less bloated DE/WM's ...

Remebering thats the case only with the tinkerers, geek users. Not everyone "moves onwards", they just want to install and work on the computer. Linux is not a RPG where you advance to get Lvl+1. big_smile

Last edited by freakcode (2008-03-11 17:24:20)

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#70 2008-03-11 17:24:05

finferflu
Forum Fellow
From: Manchester, UK
Registered: 2007-06-21
Posts: 1,899
Website

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

freakcode wrote:

Linux is not a RPG where you advance to get Lvl+1.

Awwwwwww! sad


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#71 2008-03-11 17:37:37

Arkane
Member
From: Switzerland
Registered: 2008-02-18
Posts: 263

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

freakcode wrote:

Linux is not a RPG where you advance to get Lvl+1. big_smile

Nope, it's an MMORPG.


What does not kill you will hurt a lot.

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#72 2008-03-11 17:46:35

dyscoria
Member
Registered: 2008-01-10
Posts: 1,007

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

freakcode wrote:
dyscoria wrote:

As the new user gradually moves onwards to slightly more difficult distros and slightly less bloated DE/WM's ...

Remebering thats the case only with the tinkerers, geek users. Not everyone "moves onwards", they just want to install and work on the computer. Linux is not a RPG where you advance to get Lvl+1. big_smile

Damn! Seems my epiphany was brought on by memories of nethack and zangband tongue


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#73 2008-03-19 12:24:29

lman
Member
From: CZ
Registered: 2007-12-18
Posts: 252

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

A lot of my friends is trying out linux nowadays (because of school), and i always tell them to try ubuntu first, but many of them had problems with graphics with their new graphics cards roll. I hope the new ubuntu will have better config tools and better hardware support....

So why I love ubuntu:
It was my first distro, and many people used it, so it was easy to find a solution to my problem, and I learned many things. BUT the reason I switched because it became more and more bloated, and sometimes it was really hard to configure some things (for example in gutsy the X server sad I changed the configuration files, everything works in safe mode, in normal mode X server won't even start :@ ). So eventually I got sick of it, and I switched, and now I'm happy Archlinux user big_smile

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#74 2008-03-24 15:17:42

RAV TUX
Member
From: Corvallis, Oregon USA
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5
Website

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

dyscoria wrote:
k3rn31 wrote:

For this community, I have to say that is the only community with so many ppl who can help you when you need it

Just had a brief epiphany:

From what I have experienced, most distros have a brilliant community. Most people will start with a noobish distro, using either GNOME or KDE. Let's say Ubuntu as an example. Here, the kind of help they need is really noob like questions, like "how do i install things?" and "what's open sauce, is it like ketchup?" as they gradually learn to use linux. Because many of the Ubuntu community don't generally have as good an understanding of linux (arguably) as say users of Gentoo, it doesn't matter as they can provide real noobs with plenty of help.

As the new user gradually moves onwards to slightly more difficult distros and slightly less bloated DE/WM's, the help they need is more complicated. However, generally the more difficult the distro, the higher the proportion of more knowledgable users. The quality of help they need is then matched by the potential help available.

And that's why i've always thought the community of each of the distros i've tried has been awesome. I progressed to more difficult distros before the quality of help that I needed exceeded that of the help available. I'm not saying I know more than everyone in the Ubuntu community (erm, i wish) but that a greater proportion of people can answer a difficult question more correctly and more fully in say the Arch or Gentoo forums.

Excellent Epiphany, Thanks for sharing. cool

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#75 2008-04-04 06:51:05

LeoSolaris
Member
From: South Carolina
Registered: 2008-03-30
Posts: 354

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

I am a current Gutsy user and I do really enjoy Ubuntu. It made for a nearly painless transition into Linux.

I stuck Ubuntu on an old a30 Thinkpad back in Sept, and eventually replaced it with Puppy. (Xubuntu was still slightly heavy for that old thing) I was comfortable with Ubuntu, so I put Gutsy on my new laptop.

Ubuntu's strength is the it's community. Ubuntu itself is not really all that much different (from a complete Linux noob's stand point) from many of the others I tested out at that time. The 'surface' was pretty what I was learning, and that was Gnome for me. KDE just did not do the trick.

Once you get under the hood, which took me about a month to really get used to, I have found that Ubuntu could be a bit tighter run. That would kill some of it's innate flexibility, though. I have also rediscovered the tinkering geek within, and after speaking with a few Arch users over on the Ubuntu forums, I started reading the new user guides for Arch. It's been slower going, and I have not installed yet, but that is mainly because of college. No time.

I'll get into the swing of Arch before the end of the summer. Once I get it set up, I may celebrate by topping it off with a old Green Arrow inspired theme. Or perhaps Robin Hood. Green Arrow would be far punnier.

Might even try my hand at LFS next summer, or as a long term project over the course of the school year. If I like Arch, it may end up being a source compiled clone of Arch with a specialized kernel just for my system.

(Wubi, by the way, is a rather neat program. I wish it was pre-installed in Gutsy when I started. Would have made getting started a lot less difficult.)

Leo


I keep getting distracted from my webserver project...

huh? oooh...  shiny!

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