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#76 2008-04-04 07:04:10

iphitus
Forum Fellow
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: 2004-10-09
Posts: 4,927

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

Wubi could be setup somewhat trivially on Arch.

I'm completely guessing how it works, but I know what im saying could work. There was a distro a while ago that just ran from a file within the windows partition. I've also seen setups to make the windows bootloader offer Linux.

So given that... you just need an initcpio hook, and you could implement this on arch. *shrug*

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#77 2008-04-04 07:15:29

floke
Member
Registered: 2007-09-04
Posts: 266

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

RAV TUX wrote:

Excellent Epiphany, Thanks for sharing. cool

Hey Rav, great to see you here - you an Archer now?
Let me guess, Arch-E17? cool

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#78 2008-04-04 23:22:17

cardinals_fan
Member
From: /dev/null
Registered: 2008-02-03
Posts: 248

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

First off, I too like Ubuntu.  It's nice for beginners (but a bit bloated for me).  However, Wubi is hardly 'mind bendingly brilliant', and there has been an informal project like this for Debian for quite a while.


Segmentation fault (core dumped)

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#79 2008-04-05 00:18:25

.:B:.
Forum Fellow
Registered: 2006-11-26
Posts: 5,819

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

That's how it goes all the time wink. Better get used to it tongue.

If your software/company has bigger exposure than others and you pick up improvements from other software/companies, it's easier to make it look like you are the innovator. Check Apple, for starters.


Got Leenucks? :: Arch: Power in simplicity :: Get Counted! Registered Linux User #392717 :: Blog thingy

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#80 2008-04-07 13:04:34

dyscoria
Member
Registered: 2008-01-10
Posts: 1,007

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

w00t, this thread got a mention in the newsletter cool
And yes, gotta love this community for the great non-flaming responses to this somewhat taboo-like topic smile

As we speak, i'm waiting for the new Ubuntu to come out. I've recently managed to convince my dad to try out ubuntu and I suggested that waiting for the new version would lead to a better first impression of linux. What he liked the most was how you can download everything you need through the package manager, so you never have to buy a software CD or even do the installation process yourself for a downloaded program. That and the 3D cube of course big_smile


flack 2.0.6: menu-driven BASH script to easily tag FLAC files (AUR)
knock-once 1.2: BASH script to easily create/send one-time sequences for knockd (forum/AUR)

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#81 2008-04-08 21:17:52

SpookyET
Member
Registered: 2008-01-27
Posts: 410

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

I've used Ubuntu for a month. Before that I used Vista. Then I've used Arch for 3 months. Now, I am back on Ubuntu. I have configured it pretty well. I've built packages for it (check AUR; I've made good ones). I know my way around it. However, I have got tired of configuring it. The story goes is that once you have a distribution like this and configure it, it's rock solid. You are done. The problem is that it's never done. You never finish configuring it. House chores are never done.

There are also some low quality packages on Arch, like OpenOffice, that are too big too build myself. I've bitched about it in the Announcements section. Firefox is another one. I have built firefox-spookyet on AUR because I use  Firefox 99% of the time. It's the best Firefox package for Arch, if not the best for Linux. The official Mozilla build gives me 7000 on the SunSpider benchmark. The Ubuntu build gives me around that as well. Swiftfox, which is supposed to be an optimised build gives me 6900. The firefox-spookyet package gives me close to 1000, as you can see in the comments. I'm going to try to make a build for Ubuntu. Creating debs seems complicated.

I still have Arch Linux in a dar backup that I can easily dump and resurrect it. Who knows, maybe I will if I start hating Ubuntu again. Right now, I totally like it. The packages are pre-configured to work properly. All you have to do is install them 99% of the time.


UPDATE: It only lasted a day. I have built a simple package to get me self familiar with deb creation before I attempted to port firefox-spookyet to Ubuntu. Creating debs is a nightmare.  Debs are great from the user point of view. Creating them sucks. It's very complicated with tools upon tools upon tools. I've played with the conary-based Foresight Linux after that. Conary is really cool. It's similar to pacman, but written in python with a million more features. Unfortunately, it's slow as hell. Far slower than RPM. So, I dropped it. I wasted a precious DVD. I might look at Pardus next.

Last edited by SpookyET (2008-04-11 16:20:34)

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#82 2008-04-08 21:54:16

dschauer
Member
Registered: 2008-02-28
Posts: 95

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

SpookyET wrote:

However, I have got tired of configuring it. The story goes is that once you have a distribution like this and configure it, it's rock solid. You are done. The problem is that it's never done. You never finish configuring it. House chores are never done.

Interesting, my experience is quite the opposite, with Ubuntu I was never done configuring it, and fighting hard against the way Ubuntu does things at that.

With Arch, a little simple configuration on the initial install and after setting up my first packages, and rarely have had to visit configuration since. With Ubuntu it was a constant battle, and I used Ubuntu for over a year, both with Feisty Fawn and Gutsy Gibbon, so finally I had enough, and found Arch after trying a slew of other distros in a short period of time. See http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php? … 62#p339762

That being said, I like Ubuntu as a distribution to recommend to others, as most people are not going to have the same headaches with the way Ubuntu is set up and configured.

In regards to Ubuntu:

SpookyET wrote:

The packages are pre-configured to work properly.

That is of course of matter of perspective. For me that was not the case. But I agree with SpookyET in that for the most part that will be the case to those I recommend Ubuntu to.

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#83 2008-04-09 01:20:09

cardinals_fan
Member
From: /dev/null
Registered: 2008-02-03
Posts: 248

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

SpookyET wrote:

The packages are pre-configured to work properly. All you have to do is install them 99% of the time.

One of the awesome things about Ubuntu is the package management, though compiling from source doesn't seem to work as well as on other distros.


Segmentation fault (core dumped)

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#84 2008-04-09 05:56:21

schivmeister
Developer/TU
From: Singapore
Registered: 2007-05-17
Posts: 971
Website

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

A pre-packaged distro will prove to be a good workstation. But only until something goes wrong and you don't know what's wrong - because you don't know what's inside. For me, a pre-package platform is unstable. Sure, I could make it stable by "configuring" it, but I might as well start meta smile


I need real, proper pen and paper for this.

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#85 2008-04-09 07:54:09

pestilence
Member
From: Athens
Registered: 2008-03-16
Posts: 53
Website

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

I used to be a Slackware user, then a Gentoo user the a Ubuntu user and now an Arch user...Of all the distros the following where my impressions:
1) Gentoo: powerful gives you an unmatched Linux hard core experience, with all this compiling and cli stuff, it indeed allow you to explore and learn quite nicely Linux. It was fun using it for around 2 years, but then again I had problems, I couldn't just wait hours and hours every time a major upgrade was available, my work didn't allow me that much time luxury, so soon I started looking around for something else.
2) Ubuntu: After searching and searching I decided to try something Debian like / oriented so I gave Ubuntu a try...I was impressed of its stability and rich package repository, nearly everything I wanted was there...Since I am using Linux a few years I wanted to start messing around...only to find soon that it was a bit of pain to override the Debian package management and do stuff the way you like it...I started loosing some of Linux magic forgetting things...and eventually I ended feeling a "everything is GUI" user...I had to move to something else...
3) ArchLinux: Linux meet stability, power, decision and package management...my thoughts...the best for an intermediate / advanced user...A Gentoo fun - system removing the part of waiting for it to compile...everything is there...a nice repository, updates...and yet if you can't find what you are looking for creating a new package is quick, easy and not complicated as with other Distros (hey...package creation is supposed to happen painfully...I do still have to work 8 hours in office... big_smile ). But the best for me is that it can combine both GUI positives (I don't intend to use the cli for everything...after all we are all suckers of nice interfaces...) and CLI magic...without compromising any of the 2! smile

Last edited by pestilence (2008-04-09 07:55:10)

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#86 2008-04-20 03:42:42

TheBodziO
Member
From: Dukla, Poland
Registered: 2006-07-28
Posts: 228
Website

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

Interresting! smile As pestilence and huska I've been using Gentoo for about 2 years too. After that I've moved to Arch.

I'm proud to be a little part of a community that doesn't club a man for his/hers views!


It's not the best thing when they call you a "member" you know… wink

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#87 2008-04-20 04:06:35

kensai
Member
From: Puerto Rico
Registered: 2005-06-03
Posts: 2,475
Website

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

I am testing Ubuntu 8.04 RC, and I have to say, is awesome. Not as much customization as I would like but is good to feel at ease that everything is being done for me. Anyways I tend to find user friendly distributions much of a pain to configure and use in the long run than, lets say, Gentoo or Arch. And yeah, i tend to test drive new main distributions releases, thats why I have 2 HDD. big_smile I have nothing for Windows here, is so good to be Windows free. big_smile

<offtopic>Oh, and let me add, firefox 3 is really great.</offtopic> big_smile

Last edited by kensai (2008-04-20 04:07:38)


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#88 2008-04-20 04:16:45

SpookyET
Member
Registered: 2008-01-27
Posts: 410

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

kensai wrote:

I am testing Ubuntu 8.04 RC, and I have to say, is awesome. Not as much customization as I would like but is good to feel at ease that everything is being done for me. Anyways I tend to find user friendly distributions much of a pain to configure and use in the long run than, lets say, Gentoo or Arch. And yeah, i tend to test drive new main distributions releases, thats why I have 2 HDD. big_smile I have nothing for Windows here, is so good to be Windows free. big_smile

<offtopic>Oh, and let me add, firefox 3 is really great.</offtopic> big_smile

I do like autoconfiguration to a point. Debian packages are known for that. I do think that it should prompt in some cases. Take SafeKeep. On debian, it creates a user safekeep with home /var/lib/safekeep. My var is small. So I had to move its home /home/safekeep manually.

I've tried to go back to ubuntu. But, they put my Firefox PGO suggestion into the "wishlist". Firefox on Ubuntu is 7 times slower than my firefox-spookyet (AUR) on Arch.  I've tried to package it for Ubuntu, but creating debs is too bloody complicated. PKGBUILDS are so easy. Conary, and RPM are similar.

Debs might be loved by users, but from the packaging standpoint, they suck. Creating debs is way too bloody complicated with tools upon tools upon tools like a house made of cards.

Last edited by SpookyET (2008-04-20 04:19:52)

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#89 2008-04-20 07:11:23

finferflu
Forum Fellow
From: Manchester, UK
Registered: 2007-06-21
Posts: 1,899
Website

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

SpookyET wrote:

Debs might be loved by users, but from the packaging standpoint, they suck. Creating debs is way too bloody complicated with tools upon tools upon tools like a house made of cards.

I didn't even make it to the end of the manual. I got lost and felt stupid. That's mean.


Have you Syued today?
Free music for free people! | Earthlings

"Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." -- A. de Saint-Exupery

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#90 2008-04-20 07:18:16

sweiss
Member
Registered: 2004-02-16
Posts: 635

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

I actually like Ubuntu.
The only mistake they made, and unfortunately a crucial one, was to be derived from Debian.

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#91 2008-04-21 05:33:02

vennen
Member
From: Russian Federation
Registered: 2008-03-27
Posts: 72

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

I moved to Arch from Ubuntu and I recommend Ubuntu for my friends the users Vista/XP. Nice distro to start with Linux.

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#92 2008-04-22 08:10:54

BeRReGoN
Member
Registered: 2008-03-28
Posts: 35

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

iphitus wrote:

I'm completely guessing how it works, but I know what im saying could work. There was a distro a while ago that just ran from a file within the windows partition. I've also seen setups to make the windows bootloader offer Linux.

I think wubi is a good idea. It remembers me the BeOS Personal Edition Disk i find years ago in a OS magazine. BeOS was installed within windows and using a file as if it was a partition. You could boot in it by a link in windows or with a boot disk.

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#93 2008-04-22 13:27:39

fiod
Member
Registered: 2007-04-02
Posts: 205

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

I had to install a linux educational server in VirtualBox on a friend's computer.

After reading this thread, I decided I'd give Ubuntu a second try (I haven't used it in 2 years,
using only arch and Gentoo since then).

The experience was terrible!
I forgot how simple arch is in comparison to those bloated big distributions.
Nothing is minimalistic (like I like), and everything is GUI centric.

Forgive me for saying so on this thread, but to me Ubuntu is no competition for Arch.

I'd never do this mistake again smile

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#94 2008-04-22 15:21:09

vennen
Member
From: Russian Federation
Registered: 2008-03-27
Posts: 72

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

c'mon fiod, dont be so frown to the Ubuntu and GUI centrism :-)

I moved from Ubuntu to Arch after I got an kinda 'enlightment' about linux adjusting and configuring. Even now I face from time to time with problems wich can be solved with forum advices and manual readings. But mostly people have neither time nor will to dig up with CLI. They want system just work. And Bill Gates realized it. Now same thing is figured out by Shuttleworth. Who want - will move to Arch, Gentoo or somewhere else. But Mark's Ubuntu really do the great thing for Linux popularity worldwide.

Its progress. I think that time saving and convenience do matter.

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#95 2008-04-22 15:35:28

finferflu
Forum Fellow
From: Manchester, UK
Registered: 2007-06-21
Posts: 1,899
Website

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

fiod,
I don't think you can even compare Arch with Ubuntu, they are two completely different worlds, with different aims in mind. You should compare them with the other so-called newbie-friendly distros, such as OpenSuse, Fedora, or Mandriva...


Have you Syued today?
Free music for free people! | Earthlings

"Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." -- A. de Saint-Exupery

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#96 2008-04-22 18:04:13

ybotspawn
Member
From: Oz
Registered: 2008-04-06
Posts: 140

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

Part of the fun of Arch I think is that it's REAL linux.  Not the pretty wanna be Windows/Mac that ubuntu is.  That said, ubuntu is great getting the users interested in linux.  The overall surrounding issue ALL open source platforms is it's difficult to support certain specialized apps that have matured into a predominant microsoft base application... Case in point:

Ever try to use a smart card to authenticate to anything on the web.... Great you have!
now Ever try to use a smart card to authenticate to a citrix (see the base platform that large major corporations use for remote access) web interface... No? Thats because it's incredibly difficult.  Just one point, not a complain just a fact. 

Otherwise... I've gone arch... im not looking back!


"As long as people are going to call you a lunatic anyway,
why not get the benefit of it? It liberates you from convention. "

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#97 2008-04-22 19:09:32

chicha
Member
From: Nice (France)
Registered: 2007-04-20
Posts: 254

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

ybotspawn wrote:

Part of the fun of Arch I think is that it's REAL linux.  Not the pretty wanna be Windows/Mac that ubuntu is.  That said, ubuntu is great getting the users interested in linux.  The overall surrounding issue ALL open source platforms is it's difficult to support certain specialized apps that have matured into a predominant microsoft base application... Case in point:

Ever try to use a smart card to authenticate to anything on the web.... Great you have!
now Ever try to use a smart card to authenticate to a citrix (see the base platform that large major corporations use for remote access) web interface... No? Thats because it's incredibly difficult.  Just one point, not a complain just a fact. 

Otherwise... I've gone arch... im not looking back!

We use citrix at work and we have no problem using it under Linux with Firefox.

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#98 2008-04-28 23:13:17

SpookyET
Member
Registered: 2008-01-27
Posts: 410

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

Why I hate Ubuntu:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p= … tcount=333

In short: failed upgrade.

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#99 2008-04-29 06:32:44

floke
Member
Registered: 2007-09-04
Posts: 266

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

Don't beat around the bush, Spooky. Say what you really mean.

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#100 2008-04-29 07:12:17

sH
Member
From: Braunschweig, Germany
Registered: 2007-05-02
Posts: 145

Re: Why I love Ubuntu!

I think Frugalware is also a nice distribution to suggest. It has packman, rolling release, slackware-based. So it has none of the downfalls of ubuntu/debian. The thing that makes frugalware an option for a newbie is, that their installer offers to install a full kde desktop, multimedia is almost setup if you start the first time and I guess they even have a live CD now. I ran the system 2 years ago, don't remember exactly why I switched to arch (I guess it had something to do with the package quality) but would recommend it nevertheless. I need to check back on FW to see their improvements.

Edit: now I remember, I switched because one of the developers totally hated UTF-8 and refused to implement it...

Last edited by sH (2008-04-29 07:13:35)

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