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#26 2008-05-04 15:30:23

kensai
Member
From: Puerto Rico
Registered: 2005-06-03
Posts: 2,475
Website

Re: Archlinux Leadership

cactus wrote:

ps. Allan. I stood up at my desk and clapped.

Holding a taco in you mouth?

Ok, seriously, Allan, great job laying the matter down as you did with your perspective on this matter. wink

Can I be your friend? lol


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#27 2008-05-04 15:38:38

drewbug01
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From: rochester, ny / detroit metro
Registered: 2007-04-06
Posts: 85
Website

Re: Archlinux Leadership

God, doesn't anyone around here ever stop complaining? (of course, i realize this is a complaint myself... tongue  )
Arch works. Go build your own distro if you don't like how things are run.

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#28 2008-05-04 15:47:28

floke
Member
Registered: 2007-09-04
Posts: 266

Re: Archlinux Leadership

The OP hasn't updated this thread since it was opened. This just shows how lazy these people are. I mean, don't they realise there are others who could do this complaining just as well? I propose that the OP be forced to pass this complaint back to the community so that someone with more time and energy can maintain it properly.

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#29 2008-05-04 17:22:00

JaDa
Member
From: Sun City, CA (native German)
Registered: 2007-04-06
Posts: 210
Website

Re: Archlinux Leadership

Sigi wrote:

P.S.: Were you drunk when you wrote this?

No I was not drunk!


I was talking about leading the organization. Can one person leading a organization from the size from Archlinux. This is not a "secound life game", and I personally think Archlinux need a leader how has time "full time" and not "part time"! In my eyes Archlinux need 1-2 Co-leaders better Archlinux need to build a foundation. Best example are from Gentoo

Developmer, TU, User Packages. I think developmers are only responsible for the base system.  All applications can organized from the community. A good example is organization from Opensuse with a "Community Leader" and the packages in "software opensuse" and packman.

How it looks by Archlinux. We have an "unstable" there a packages in "unstable" how are old very old!

Unstable x11 fvwm-crystal 3.0.4-1 Transparent Themes for fvwm 2006-06-30

but what I missing in "Unstable" are the unstable future stable packages like KDE4, openoffice3, future gnome, kernel, etc.

Organize it, with Co-Leader Development, with a Co-Leader Community.

What I don't like is, that packages stay in the community repos, and few weeks later they are in AUR and running far out of date or you update it with "yaourt" and spending hours for updating one package. This are the moments where I get upset.
Example:

Missing i686 Packages:
No new package supplied for scilab 4.1.2-4!

--
This is an automated message. If you wish to stop receiving it twice
a day, fix the package(s).

This package was before in the community and moved to AUR. Forward - Backward- Forward -Backward - ...

AUR/Community, some have the buildscript and installscript are full with all sorts of funny stuff. Well "DISCLAIMER: Unsupported PKGBUILDs are user produced content, by downloading them you agree to do so at your own risk." I think there must be a better controling what PKGBUILD are accept and will not accept.

Development, there are good developmers how have time, time for maintaining only 1-2 packages. Archlinux is not using this sources from developmer and keep them out. The question is, how can Archlinux using this death sources and knowgle from people how like to maintain only a handfull or less packages.

There are many things, needed organize and there are many different kinds and opinions.

Now for the "smart ass" wink

drewbug01 wrote:

God, doesn't anyone around here ever stop complaining? (of course, i realize this is a complaint myself... tongue  )
Arch works. Go build your own distro if you don't like how things are run.

floke wrote:

The OP hasn't updated this thread since it was opened. This just shows how lazy these people are. I mean, don't they realise there are others who could do this complaining just as well? I propose that the OP be forced to pass this complaint back to the community so that someone with more time and energy can maintain it properly.

kensai wrote:
cactus wrote:

ps. Allan. I stood up at my desk and clapped.

Holding a taco in you mouth?

Ok, seriously, Allan, great job laying the matter down as you did with your perspective on this matter. wink

Can I be your friend? lol

Looks like you guys having Fun, and don't take it seriously. sad

A example the stable packages gcc & gcc-libs 4.3.0-1.

I tried to build something for my self. I am using a lot "miro" how are far out of date in the Archlinux Repo's and it has a high security risk.
So I changed in the PKGBUILD Version 1.1 to Version pkgver=1.2.3, pkgrel=0, running makepkg -g change the md5sum and running makepkg -cd and get this.

error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1
==> ERROR: Build Failed.
    Aborting...

what is wrong with the stable gcc? So what now, don't using Miro? Or be patient and cross the fingers big_smile

I think Archlinux needs a better organize all his packages. It do not make sense for me, you update one package (gcc), and then can't update many another applications wink


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#30 2008-05-04 17:33:05

dolby
Member
From: 1992
Registered: 2006-08-08
Posts: 1,581

Re: Archlinux Leadership

JaDa wrote:
Sigi wrote:

P.S.: Were you drunk when you wrote this?

No I was not drunk!

That is the problem, right there. Go get drunk or something.

Last edited by dolby (2008-05-04 17:33:20)


There shouldn't be any reason to learn more editor types than emacs or vi -- mg (1)
[You learn that sarcasm does not often work well in international forums.  That is why we avoid it. -- ewaller (arch linux forum moderator)

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#32 2008-05-04 17:46:34

kumico
Member
Registered: 2007-09-28
Posts: 224
Website

Re: Archlinux Leadership

jada, please stop now, please.
i don't quite understand the point you're trying to make.
you claim arch needs changes in the leadership department,
but so far, ive failed to see a single reason why this is necessary,
as for the pkg failure,
i don't see how this has anything to do with archlinux,
archlinux does not develop miro, if the upstream devs hasn't updated their software to be gcc 4.3 compatible i don't see how you can blame archlinux. the fixes needed would most likely be trivial, posibly fixable with a very tiny patch or a sed one liner
but to be honest, if any arch developer started fixing pkgs like this, then there would be more bad breath
in the community about why they have failed to fix other pkgs ...

p.s the word is developers, i know your English isn't very good, but if you're going to criticize someone, you should probably start by spelling their title correctly

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#33 2008-05-04 18:01:00

peets
Member
From: Montreal
Registered: 2007-01-11
Posts: 936
Website

Re: Archlinux Leadership

skottish raises a relevant point. And why should we depend on leaders?

P.S. I find adlucem has a good idea.

Last edited by peets (2008-05-04 18:09:59)

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#34 2008-05-04 18:20:53

chimeric
Member
From: Munich, Germany
Registered: 2007-10-07
Posts: 254
Website

Re: Archlinux Leadership

JaDa wrote:

In my eyes Archlinux need 1-2 Co-leaders better Archlinux need to build a foundation. Best example are from Gentoo

Yep indeed, the best example for failure ... I've read that all across the intarweb lately so it must be true.

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#35 2008-05-04 18:39:11

Theoden
Member
Registered: 2005-03-03
Posts: 240

Re: Archlinux Leadership

Unbelievable!  Where are the moderators?  If EVER a thread cried out to be locked so it could die - This is it!

--Theoden  mad


"If builders built buildings the way programmers write programs,
the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization."

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#36 2008-05-04 18:39:49

Mikko777
Member
From: Suomi, Finland
Registered: 2006-10-30
Posts: 837

Re: Archlinux Leadership

If I was the Leader I'd patch every single app to work better.

Also there would be free tacos for everyone. But far less apps and no forum and absolutely no ppl who run arch as server instead of desktop tongue

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#37 2008-05-04 18:45:19

skottish
Forum Fellow
From: Here
Registered: 2006-06-16
Posts: 7,931

Re: Archlinux Leadership

Choice. Freedom. If the zombie flicks didn't wake someone up, then what will?

The coffee sucks this morning!

Change the beans or stop drinking coffee.

My shoes make my knees ache!

Replace them or stop walking.



Arch, like coffee beans, like bananas, is what it is. If anyone has something that works well or will improve on the Arch model, bring it in.

Simplicity is one of the best thing humans can accomplish.

[Cosmic Rule]
You cannot help anything that doesn't need help. When anything needs help, it will ask you.
[/Cosmic Rule]

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#38 2008-05-04 18:51:02

daf666
Member
Registered: 2007-04-08
Posts: 470
Website

Re: Archlinux Leadership

Theoden wrote:

Unbelievable!  Where are the moderators?  If EVER a thread cried out to be locked so it could die - This is it!

--Theoden  mad

Why lock the thread? some noobs are discussing Arch in the Arch Discussion related forum.
If there is a place for this, its here, and every opinion counts.

(the author used to lurk in alt.linux.advocacy for hours)

PS, Mikko777 for leadership!!!!!!

Last edited by daf666 (2008-05-04 18:52:49)

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#39 2008-05-04 18:51:49

.:B:.
Forum Fellow
Registered: 2006-11-26
Posts: 5,819

Re: Archlinux Leadership

Theoden wrote:

Unbelievable!  Where are the moderators?  If EVER a thread cried out to be locked so it could die - This is it!

--Theoden  mad

There's something to be said for freedom of speech, however silly it may appear sometimes. A knife cuts both ways.

That being said, I don't agree with the OP, Lots of FOSS communities are being run by volunteers, and run well. If you have critical packages that you depend on, don't wait for others to update it for you, update it yourself and roll it out. I do it all the time, and I'm not even in a production environment.


Got Leenucks? :: Arch: Power in simplicity :: Get Counted! Registered Linux User #392717 :: Blog thingy

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#40 2008-05-04 19:57:19

JaDa
Member
From: Sun City, CA (native German)
Registered: 2007-04-06
Posts: 210
Website

Re: Archlinux Leadership

kumico wrote:

jada, please stop now, please.
i don't quite understand the point you're trying to make.
you claim arch needs changes in the leadership department,
but so far, ive failed to see a single reason why this is necessary,
as for the pkg failure,

Short and simple. When Arch started 2001/2002 the rules was good and the right way at this time. This is 7 years ago, things getting bigger, .....!

I am talking about, Arch linux needs a new and modern strukture for his size now. You guys focus only on development, abs and packages, not what it really needs.
I am talking about that developmers cooking his own soup. The Archlinux community need to be open, need learn to share, and need to work in one direktion under one rule.
The reason why I am using Archlinux was, rolling release, stable, and fast up to date applications. Judd is gone, and now the fast up to date is going slower and slower. How we can change this?

Then the mailiong liste, well I need "unstable" another I don't need "unstable", etc. question why and for what was unstable created? Because we have "testing" right we don't need "unstable"?

It is the leaders job, he is the captain, he must give the direktion. The new leader is asking to much the developmers, what is to do, he is not present enough, and after 6 mounth of his leadership I think, things are going wrong. 

I am not talking about, Archlinux need another leader, I am talking about how Archlinux can get a better strukture. But I see some of the stupid comments from some User, ...... !

@kumico
you are right, I stop now!


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#41 2008-05-04 20:06:00

neotuli
Lazy Developer
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: 2004-07-06
Posts: 1,201
Website

Re: Archlinux Leadership

daf666 wrote:

If there is a place for this, its here, and every opinion counts.

Did you even read my post? Maybe you didn't understand it. See what I was saying that in this thing we like to call "the world", lots of people's opinions don't count, because they do absolutely nothing to make them count. In fact, when you really come down to it, most people's opinions don't count at all.
It's like the classic armchair quarterback screaming at the TV about how shitty a play was. Sure, he's screaming at his TV at the top of his lungs, scaring the wife and children, but the fact remains that he is not actually the quarterback and so has no real control over anything at all. See?

This is really no different, except that doing it on a public forum gives you the added benefit of being able to make a fool out of yourself in front of lots of people, instead of just your TV.


The suggestion box only accepts patches.

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#42 2008-05-04 20:07:51

Sigi
Member
From: Thurgau, Switzerland
Registered: 2005-09-22
Posts: 1,121

Re: Archlinux Leadership

JaDa wrote:

You guys focus only on development, abs and packages, not what it really needs.

Haha, this one's great smile

JaDa wrote:

developmers

Please... this hurts even my eyes!


Dammit, haven't been here in a while. Still rocking Arch. smile

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#43 2008-05-04 20:15:09

JaDa
Member
From: Sun City, CA (native German)
Registered: 2007-04-06
Posts: 210
Website

Re: Archlinux Leadership

Sigi wrote:
JaDa wrote:

developmers

Please... this hurts even my eyes!

big_smile sorry for that


Maki wrote:

AFAIK Aaron was talking something about shifting some packages to other repo's, that would be maintained by a group of TU's or something like that, so for example KDE on arch could be shifted totally on kdemod. This would solve the problem of out of date packages. As for wine out of date there is an unofficial repo maintained by Tj.

Aaron don't have to ask, if all is better organize, and this is why I said he (Archlinux) need to build a new strukture. A strukture how help all. He is not the only one how fight to keep up to date. You got it smile

From a User:
I did not whine! I build it myself clamav by just replacing the $pkgver
on my private x86_64 box. I just wanted to call some attention.

But Arch Linux is known to be very up to date on nearly all packages.
Why not on that security realted issue ?

When clamav 0.94 is released, where should I upload the new PKGBUILD
including the binaries for x86_64 and i686 ?

[arch-general] ClamAV should be update to 0.93

from the same User:
It isn't to hard. Its just the plain truth.

If the maintainer hasn't the time, he should give the package to someone
else, which has the time.

This is a User how build something, help out and like to share it? Now he have to ask where he can upload it.
Arch need to change the strukture, then it get's more help.

But I think there are still to many here, how don't get the point smile

Last edited by JaDa (2008-05-04 20:34:09)


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#44 2008-05-04 20:44:31

cactus
Taco Eater
From: t͈̫̹ͨa͖͕͎̱͈ͨ͆ć̥̖̝o̫̫̼s͈̭̱̞͍̃!̰
Registered: 2004-05-25
Posts: 4,615
Website

Re: Archlinux Leadership


"Be conservative in what you send; be liberal in what you accept." -- Postel's Law
"tacos" -- Cactus' Law
"t̥͍͎̪̪͗a̴̻̩͈͚ͨc̠o̩̙͈ͫͅs͙͎̙͊ ͔͇̫̜t͎̳̀a̜̞̗ͩc̗͍͚o̲̯̿s̖̣̤̙͌ ̖̜̈ț̰̫͓ạ̪͖̳c̲͎͕̰̯̃̈o͉ͅs̪ͪ ̜̻̖̜͕" -- -̖͚̫̙̓-̺̠͇ͤ̃ ̜̪̜ͯZ͔̗̭̞ͪA̝͈̙͖̩L͉̠̺͓G̙̞̦͖O̳̗͍

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#45 2008-05-04 20:52:03

skottish
Forum Fellow
From: Here
Registered: 2006-06-16
Posts: 7,931

Re: Archlinux Leadership

Do these people need to eat brains to live?

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#46 2008-05-04 21:04:43

JaDa
Member
From: Sun City, CA (native German)
Registered: 2007-04-06
Posts: 210
Website

Re: Archlinux Leadership

Opinion.

How to get the people out? Answer close the doors wink

How to poisen the people? Ask Hans Reisser smile


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Arch Linux
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#47 2008-05-04 21:09:50

Misbah
Member
Registered: 2008-02-27
Posts: 218

Re: Archlinux Leadership

JaDa wrote:

I am talking about that developmers cooking his own soup.

*steps forward*.. medium turkey chili.

.. I didn't get any bread.. excuse me, I think you forgot my bread?

bread.. two dollars extra.

two dollars extra? but everyone in front of me got free bread.

you want bread?? THREE DOLLARS!

what?

NO SOUP FOR YOU!! COME BACK -- ONE YEAR!

I know, it's a useless post, but it seemed to be the theme?

Last edited by Misbah (2008-05-04 21:11:37)

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#48 2008-05-04 21:13:57

catwell
Member
From: Bretagne, France
Registered: 2008-02-20
Posts: 207
Website

Re: Archlinux Leadership

JaDa, buy a webserver and create your own repo. If you want a structure and so on, go on and fork, it's free software after all, we'll see who'll follow.

Oh, and it's Reiser, not Reisser.

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#49 2008-05-04 21:15:46

KimTjik
Member
From: Sweden
Registered: 2007-08-22
Posts: 715

Re: Archlinux Leadership

It's a good video (at least I think it is the one I saw about 6 months ago) with sober advice for open-source projects.

"People who complain a lot but not actually do anything, what's our usual response to them? 'Patches are welcome'."

I complain a lot... maybe not... but I'm on the other hand really bad on making patches. What's a patch anyway? wink

Last edited by KimTjik (2008-05-04 21:46:32)

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#50 2008-05-04 21:23:33

daf666
Member
Registered: 2007-04-08
Posts: 470
Website

Re: Archlinux Leadership

neotuli wrote:
daf666 wrote:

If there is a place for this, its here, and every opinion counts.

Did you even read my post? Maybe you didn't understand it. See what I was saying that in this thing we like to call "the world", lots of people's opinions don't count, because they do absolutely nothing to make them count. In fact, when you really come down to it, most people's opinions don't count at all.

Dont get me wrong, I agree with you 100 percent.
Jada should open bugs or submit official enhancement request.
But discussion and criticism is always a good thing, noobs should be educated not be shun..

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