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#26 2008-06-16 19:11:03

Falcata
Member
From: Michiana
Registered: 2008-01-23
Posts: 501
Website

Re: Computer Building

Well, I did more research, and came up with a new build, using ATX instead of mATX.  Here it is:

* Case: COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-UW ($49.99)
* PSU: Rosewill RP500 ATX12V 500W PSU ($48.99)
* Mobo: GIGABYTE GA-M57SLI-S4 AM2 ($84.99)
* CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+ Brisbane 2.7GHz ($77)
* RAM: Kingston HyperX 2GB DDR2-800 Dual-Channel Kit ($57.99)
* Hard Drive: Seagate Barracuda ST3250410AS 250GB SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive ($59.99)
* Optical Drive: SAMSUNG 22X DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S223F ($28.99 - OEM)
* Video Card: x2 EVGA 512-P2-N 757-TR GeForce 8600 GT ($99.99 each - SLI)

And if I didn't say so before, this thing's going to be a gaming PC.  I've dumped the CPU and VGA coolers, as the new CPU and video card(s) I've chosen are able to run cool enough with the stock coolers.  I've downgraded to a lesser-grade video card, but I'll be running two of them in SLI mode.  The new total comes to $607.92, or $567.92 after rebates.  So, where can I improve the design further?

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#27 2008-06-16 19:24:58

Misfit138
Misfit Emeritus
From: USA
Registered: 2006-11-27
Posts: 4,189

Re: Computer Building

2 8600's in SLi is a waste. Throw one 8800GTS in there.
Also, this is the PSU I would recommend, if you want a 500w model.
One 8800GTS> 2 8600GT's in SLi.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a … 6814130317
1 8600= 32 Stream Processors x 2=64
1 8800= 128 Stream Processors.
Also, memory available does not double with SLi.
SLi is a sales pitch and is almost never worth it.

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#28 2008-06-16 20:04:11

Falcata
Member
From: Michiana
Registered: 2008-01-23
Posts: 501
Website

Re: Computer Building

Thanks for the advice, Misfit.  Although, the 8800's require PCI-E 2.0, which my currently selected mobo doesn't have, so I picked a GIGABYTE GA-MA770-DS3 as my new motherboard.  I don't think I can use the Fortron PSU's.  All the one's I looked at have a 20+4pin connector, while my motherboard has a 24pin connector.  Are there any 20+4pin to 24pin adapters?

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#29 2008-06-16 20:23:34

Berticus
Member
Registered: 2008-06-11
Posts: 731

Re: Computer Building

Corsair, Antec, and Enermax are all good PSU's too...  Also, you don't need an adapter, the 20+4 pin can still plug into the 24 pin adapter.  In fact, the 20+4 pin is sort of an adapter itself since it can plug into a motherboard with either 20 pins or 24 pins main connector.

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#30 2008-06-16 22:01:05

Falcata
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From: Michiana
Registered: 2008-01-23
Posts: 501
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Re: Computer Building

I see.  I guess I should have paid more attention.  I'm glad I know this now.

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#31 2008-06-16 22:32:38

Falcata
Member
From: Michiana
Registered: 2008-01-23
Posts: 501
Website

Re: Computer Building

If I want to buy a case with a built-in PSU, what are some good brands to look at?  Raidmax and Apevia?

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#32 2008-06-16 22:48:53

Sp4rkR4t
Member
From: Southampton
Registered: 2008-05-06
Posts: 110

Re: Computer Building

You will never get a good PSU with any case, always buy separate as it's the most important component you will buy.

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#33 2008-06-16 22:50:26

Falcata
Member
From: Michiana
Registered: 2008-01-23
Posts: 501
Website

Re: Computer Building

What the "most important component" is may be subject to argument, but I'll take your word for it.

EDIT: I read somewhere that a computer is only as good as it's weakest component, so I'll just say that the "most important component" is all of the components.

Last edited by Falcata (2008-06-16 22:51:21)

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#34 2008-06-16 23:17:08

SwimFr3ak
Member
From: /usa/michigan
Registered: 2008-06-10
Posts: 25

Re: Computer Building

Another great community for PC building and overclocking/performance is http://www.overclock.net

They also have a large number of linux users and are currently in the process of developing a livecd distro based on the concept of system maintenance / performance testing.

Last edited by SwimFr3ak (2008-06-16 23:17:33)

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#35 2008-06-16 23:28:47

Falcata
Member
From: Michiana
Registered: 2008-01-23
Posts: 501
Website

Re: Computer Building

Sounds like an interesting distro.  Speaking of overclocking, is it at all possible to overclock a computer when the motherboard does not support it?

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#36 2008-06-16 23:28:50

Misfit138
Misfit Emeritus
From: USA
Registered: 2006-11-27
Posts: 4,189

Re: Computer Building

Berticus wrote:

Corsair, Antec, and Enermax are all good PSU's too...  Also, you don't need an adapter, the 20+4 pin can still plug into the 24 pin adapter.  In fact, the 20+4 pin is sort of an adapter itself since it can plug into a motherboard with either 20 pins or 24 pins main connector.

Corsair PSU's are OEM by Seasonic, some units by Channelwell. Good quality
Antec PSU's are also OEM. OEM's include Channelwell, Enhance, Fortron FSP, and Seasonic.
Enermax are good. Enermax make their own stuff, just like Fortron FSP.

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#37 2008-06-16 23:34:16

Misfit138
Misfit Emeritus
From: USA
Registered: 2006-11-27
Posts: 4,189

Re: Computer Building

Most important components are PSU and motherboard. A computer is basically the motherboard in many ways. A feature-rich motherboard will allow for both upgradability and overclocking.

Falcata wrote:

Sounds like an interesting distro.  Speaking of overclocking, is it at all possible to overclock a computer when the motherboard does not support it?

No.
Overclocking is fun too. Do some homework on it before jumping in.

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#38 2008-06-16 23:42:09

Falcata
Member
From: Michiana
Registered: 2008-01-23
Posts: 501
Website

Re: Computer Building

Yeah.  I've been picking components based on how well they overclock.  Although, I think I may have forgotten this with my latest selections.  The CPU overclocks fine.  One reviewer got it from it's stock speed of 2.7ghz up to 3.174ghz.  Reading through the reviews of the motherboard, it suggests getting a fan for the northbridge if you want to overclock.

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#39 2008-06-17 00:12:21

Berticus
Member
Registered: 2008-06-11
Posts: 731

Re: Computer Building

Well...  really you wanna make sure all components receive adequate cooling...  Northbridge, southbridge, voltage regulator module, GPU, CPU, and sometimes RAM if you're going high-end (although by next year possibly all RAM sticks will come with heatspreaders).  Cooling is often overlooked.  Whenever I see people helping others, they never mention cooling.  Which is sort of a shame.  I definitely would've paid more attention to cooling if someone mentioned it.  My computer wouldn't be anywhere close to what it is today.  Now I have to make a slow migration to include better cooling and quieter solutions.  I'm thinking about getting some custom heatsinks and fans made to make it among the quietest computers.

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#40 2008-06-17 00:12:36

SwimFr3ak
Member
From: /usa/michigan
Registered: 2008-06-10
Posts: 25

Re: Computer Building

Sounds like an interesting distro.  Speaking of overclocking, is it at all possible to overclock a computer when the motherboard does not support it?

It depends, most basic motherboards will have some minor speed settings. If you want a lot of options for overclocking you need to shop around, go check out the link to the forum I posted earlier, there is tons of info on different brands and models, techniques and such. You just need to shop around and know what you are buying.

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#41 2008-06-17 00:18:25

Falcata
Member
From: Michiana
Registered: 2008-01-23
Posts: 501
Website

Re: Computer Building

I was referring to my current computer's motherboard.  It's a Foxconn LS-36, and does not appear to offer any kind of option for overclocking.  The closest it comes to it is an option to enable or disable hyper-threading.

Anyways, I've found another motherboard.  It's mATX, costs $10 less, a better northbridge and southbridge, and more sata cable slots.  The onboard sound has fewer audio channels, but that's not really something I'm concerned about.  Should I go with this one and select a mATX case, or go with what I currently have?

Current Mobo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a … 6813128081
Newer Mobo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a … 6813138105

Last edited by Falcata (2008-06-17 00:18:58)

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#42 2008-06-17 00:36:30

Misfit138
Misfit Emeritus
From: USA
Registered: 2006-11-27
Posts: 4,189

Re: Computer Building

mATX will severely limit you in many ways. Inferior chipsets, fewer pci slots, less expandability and near zero overclockability. mATX is for keeping things small and cheap; mutually exclusive to building a peformance gaming machine.
If you want an AMD, I can recommend some boards.

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#43 2008-06-17 00:58:06

Falcata
Member
From: Michiana
Registered: 2008-01-23
Posts: 501
Website

Re: Computer Building

Actually, several reviewers are saying this particular mATX board seems to handle overclocking pretty well, with the bios having several overclocking options.  Expandability, as far as PCI slots is concerned, is not a problem for me.  The only thing I would put in the expansion slots, other than the video card, is a tvtuner and maybe a sound card.  Assuming I don't use ones with a USB interface.

Anyways, since I keep going back and forth between an ATX and mATX board, I'll just record both builds for now, and see which one I want later.  Here's both builds, in their current states:

ATX Build
* Case: COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-UW  -  $49.99
* PSU: FSP Group AX500-PN ATX2.2 500W Power Supply - $69.99 ($10 rebate)
* Mobo: GIGABYTE GA-MA770-DS3  -  $89.99
* CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+ Brisbane 2.7GHz  -  $77.00
* RAM: Kingston HyperX 2GB (2 x 1GB) DDR2 800  -  $57.99
* Hard Drive: Seagate Barracuda ST3250410AS 250GB SATA 3.0Gb/s  -  $59.99
* Optical Drive: SAMSUNG 22X DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S223F  -  $28.99
* Video Card: EVGA 512-P3-N801-AR GeForce 8800 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16  -  $169.99 ($20 rebate)
Build Total: $573.93

mATX Build
* Case: COOLER MASTER Elite 340 RC-340C-KKN1-GP  -  $39.99
* PSU: Rosewill RP500 ATX12V v1.3/ EPS12V 500W Power Supply  -  $48.99
* Mobo: BIOSTAR TFORCE TA780G - $79.99
* CPU: AMD Phenom 8450 Toliman 2.1GHz Triple-Core - $148.99
* RAM: Kingston HyperX 2GB (2 x 1GB) DDR2 1066  -  $59.99
* Hard Drive: Seagate Barracuda ST380815AS 80GB SATA 3.0Gb/s  -  $39.99
* Optical Drive: SAMSUNG 22X DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S223F  -  $28.99
* Video Card: EVGA 512-P3-N801-AR GeForce 8800 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16  -  $169.99 ($20 rebate)
Build Total: $607.92

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#44 2008-06-17 01:10:00

Berticus
Member
Registered: 2008-06-11
Posts: 731

Re: Computer Building

the better nb and sb would be an advantage, but having more sata?  If storage is a concern, think about getting a fileserver.  I'll have 2 TB of space once I get my Arch installation up and running.  Once I need more than 4 TB, it's another migration for me using a fileserver.  If you have a gigabit LAN, you shouldn't have too bad of a performance issue for a while.  I mean even the next version of SATA is only going to be 6.0 gbps.

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#45 2008-06-17 01:25:39

Falcata
Member
From: Michiana
Registered: 2008-01-23
Posts: 501
Website

Re: Computer Building

The SATA was just something I was listing.  I suppose it doesn't really concern me, unless I decided to add hard drives frequently.

Last edited by Falcata (2008-06-17 01:25:54)

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#46 2008-06-17 06:34:07

wuischke
Member
From: Suisse Romande
Registered: 2007-01-06
Posts: 630

Re: Computer Building

anrxc wrote:
Falcata wrote:

Does anyone know of some good beginner resources for building a computer?

It's not what you actually ment, but this is very interesting:

From nand to tetris; building a modern computer
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid … 2021156507
http://www1.idc.ac.il/tecs/

Even though it is off-topic, I second this. I bought the book and I think you'll learn a lot about the inner workings of computers - some prior programming knowledge is advisable, though.

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#47 2008-06-17 11:11:27

Falcata
Member
From: Michiana
Registered: 2008-01-23
Posts: 501
Website

Re: Computer Building

wuischke wrote:

some prior programming knowledge is advisable, though.

I've got that covered.  C++ and Ruby.

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#48 2008-06-17 21:55:10

Falcata
Member
From: Michiana
Registered: 2008-01-23
Posts: 501
Website

Re: Computer Building

Since both of those builds can run in 64-bit, I suppose I should ask this now: What are the advantages and disadvantages of a 64-bit system?

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#49 2008-06-18 19:36:05

schivmeister
Developer/TU
From: Singapore
Registered: 2007-05-17
Posts: 971
Website

Re: Computer Building

Oh lol..it HAS to come up. There're a few ppl in IRC with the same link that they stamp on your face whenever someone asks about 64-bit. I don't have it but Google should, something about being more about the RAM. Whatever it is, it's a benefit. 64-bit machines can run 32-bit software, so there's nothing to lose, all to gain.


I need real, proper pen and paper for this.

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#50 2008-06-18 19:58:20

INCSlayer
Member
From: Sweden
Registered: 2007-09-06
Posts: 296
Website

Re: Computer Building

the biggest advantage that i really know about with running 64bit atm is that you can use more than 3.1gb of ram and a negative is that not all websites accepts icedtea's version of java which might be a problem for some people
ofc there are most likely other differences that i dont know about


dovie andi se tovya sagain

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