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#26 2008-07-17 04:47:51

tanis
Member
From: Poland / Waterloo, ON, Canada
Registered: 2007-04-21
Posts: 259

Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

It would be just like using Gtk/Gnome apps in KDE. Like using Gimp or Firefox in KDE (which I am doing right now), or Qt4 apps (Skype, Psi) in KDE 3.5 or Gnome smile

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#27 2008-07-17 05:19:29

ozar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2005-02-18
Posts: 1,686

Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

tanis wrote:

It would be just like using Gtk/Gnome apps in KDE. Like using Gimp or Firefox in KDE (which I am doing right now), or Qt4 apps (Skype, Psi) in KDE 3.5 or Gnome smile

Ouch!  Firefox in KDE is one of my sore spots. yikes

I don't like the way it looks and have tried all the various fixes many times but still end up being very unhappy with it.  Qt apps under Gnome don't please me, either.  If the KDE team could ever get Konqueror truly up to speed, I'd switch to it in a heart beat and leave Firefox.  Of course, it would have to be compatible with certain extensions that I couldn't live without.  Firefox does look great under Gnome, by the way.

One thing I've learned after 8 years in various trials runs of mixing KDE with Gnome and Gtk apps with Qt apps is that I'm never happy with the end result.

Anyway, hope it all works out and KDE4 turns into a really great desktop environment.  I'll be right in the middle of it when it once it becomes that.


oz

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#28 2008-07-17 05:34:18

attila
Member
Registered: 2006-11-14
Posts: 293

Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

@funkyou Thanks for your longer expressions and very much thank you for that kdemod3 will survive as long as possible because i use it. smile That the building of kde4 is easier is new for me and sure this is a big point which i never realize. Nice to see that it should be more stable as i recognized by own tests.

mindfall wrote:
AFAIK it is already possible to run folderview "full screen"; A config file has to be edited for now. Problem is that then there is no wallpaper anymore for now. Only Kde 4.2 will make it possible to have fullscreen folderview + wallpaper.

Without a wallpaper this editing of a config file make no sense.:)

ozar wrote:
I do enjoy playing with KDE4, but to me it still feels like beta (and sometimes alpha) software.

Thanks for having the same feeling as mine because i' getting crazy that it seems to run perfect for anyone else but not for me. smile Note to your points about mixing: After playing with some nice kde-only themes i step to QtCurve and after this it doesn't matter for me if this is a kde or gtk or qt application. But i can understand your feeling about it.

tanis wrote:
It would be just like using Gtk/Gnome apps in KDE.

This is only the half of the story. I'm very enthused about the reports from Akonadi but the kdepim apps will be "only" ported to kde4 but don't use the new framework. If we will replace kde3 in extra with kde4 we should not make the same error as the kde devs and should say every "what will not work" point before and not after it.:)

Now a question from mine: I can read a lot about new features or concepts but i never see any informations how to config kde4 that it looks like my older, but still fantastic looking kde3. Does anyone know some urls about this? In the best case without any flame war.:)

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#29 2008-07-17 08:40:29

mutlu_inek
Member
From: all over the place
Registered: 2006-11-18
Posts: 683

Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

tanis wrote:

@ozar: I don't think all the apps from KDE 3.5 are going to work fine in KDE 4.1. Things like amarok, k3b, digikam, ktorrent, yakuake, and a few more are in kde-extragear, and are not part of KDE 4.1 RC1, so probably won't be part of final 4.1 release.

First, apps from KDE3 work very well in KDE4 if the devs package them properly. I have repeatedly compiled KDE4 since November last year and also tried out the excellent KDEmod packages. I found that there are no significant issues.

Second, you misunderstand the 'extragear' concept. The very idea of extragear is that this software is highly dependent on the KDE framework, but not part of the official KDE. Software in extragear has never been released with a KDE release. Not seeing them in the betas and RCs does not mean anything. Moreover, digikam, ktorrent and yakuake are ready since months; amarok and k3b are under heavy development and will be released soonish.

Last edited by mutlu_inek (2008-07-17 08:42:22)

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#30 2008-07-17 11:01:03

attila
Member
Registered: 2006-11-14
Posts: 293

Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

mutlu_inek wrote:

First, apps from KDE3 work very well in KDE4 if the devs package them properly. I have repeatedly compiled KDE4 since November last year and also tried out the excellent KDEmod packages. I found that there are no significant issues.

This tread starts with "that KDE 4.1 would be going into extra shortly after it is offically released toward the end of this month" so my question is: Do you suggest to replace kde3 with kde4 in extra or not? Sorry, this reports about mixing kde3/4 been nice to hear because it seems that kde4 is more stable than i have seen but i miss for what do you vote.

mutlu_inek wrote:

Moreover, digikam, ktorrent and yakuake are ready since months; amarok and k3b are under heavy development and will be released soonish.

Sorry again, but this "under heavy development" and "will be released soonish" be one of the most phrases in combination with kde4 so for me i have to say that this be for me more reasons to stay with kde3.

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#31 2008-07-17 11:48:58

mutlu_inek
Member
From: all over the place
Registered: 2006-11-18
Posts: 683

Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

attila wrote:

This tread starts with "that KDE 4.1 would be going into extra shortly after it is offically released toward the end of this month" so my question is: Do you suggest to replace kde3 with kde4 in extra or not? Sorry, this reports about mixing kde3/4 been nice to hear because it seems that kde4 is more stable than i have seen but i miss for what do you vote.

I think it is _very_ important that apps written for KDE3 run in KDE4. It allows for using KDE4 despite the fact that very few apps are not yet fully ported.

attila wrote:

Sorry again, but this "under heavy development" and "will be released soonish" be one of the most phrases in combination with kde4 so for me i have to say that this be for me more reasons to stay with kde3.

Why would you hold back the release of a whole platform because one or two applications are still using a different toolkit? That seems very silly to me. With this reasoning we cannot use either KDE nor Gnome since there is always a lack of something in the world of a toolkit. For example, there is nothing as good as EasyTag using qt and nothing as good as digikam using gtk.

Basically, what I was trying to say is that it does not matter whether a few qt apps are ported or not. The question should be whether the base of KDE 4.1 is stable and offers what we need to do our daily work. With regard to this, my opinion is that, first, KDE 4.1 is stable, and second, that, while 4.1 may lack very few options (mainly panel autohiding and icons on the desktop as we are used to from KDE3) it has gained significantly in all areas. It offers new applications as well as new functionality for applications we already use since KDE3. I simply cannot see why someone would not want to use it.

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#32 2008-07-17 12:28:49

attila
Member
Registered: 2006-11-14
Posts: 293

Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

mutlu_inek wrote:

I think it is _very_ important that apps written for KDE3 run in KDE4. It allows for using KDE4 despite the fact that very few apps are not yet fully ported.

Yes, that is right but this is not all.

mutlu_inek wrote:

Why would you hold back the release of a whole platform because one or two applications are still using a different toolkit? That seems very silly to me.

If you reduce it to this than yes, it is silly. smile

mutlu_inek wrote:

It offers new applications as well as new functionality for applications we already use since KDE3. I simply cannot see why someone would not want to use it.

It is not realy true that it offers the same as kde3. Here i have to say that i enjoy very much my kde3 and sorry, but i don't want less than this level. And if you take a look at the Plasma FAQ (http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Plasma/FAQ) than you will see some points which will be realized not before KDE 4.2. I can understand that you want the new because in the most cases i want it too but in the case of the level from  KDE 4.1 i must say that at the moment i don't want to replace my working kde3 with it. KDE4 looks very nice but i know that i will miss more than i want.

But before we risk to discuss too much i must say that i'm not the middle of the world and so i hope you see my words nothing else as a vote for kde3. If the majority here votes for replacing KDE3 with KDE4 than this is democracy. smile

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#33 2008-07-17 13:09:18

mutlu_inek
Member
From: all over the place
Registered: 2006-11-18
Posts: 683

Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

attila wrote:

But before we risk to discuss too much i must say that i'm not the middle of the world and so i hope you see my words nothing else as a vote for kde3. If the majority here votes for replacing KDE3 with KDE4 than this is democracy. smile

Hehe. smile Don't worry... we are all only expression our opinions. In the end it is the Arch KDE devs who decide anyways. It's an Archocracy here. wink (And I will use KDE 4.1 this way or another.)

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#34 2008-07-17 14:01:04

tanis
Member
From: Poland / Waterloo, ON, Canada
Registered: 2007-04-21
Posts: 259

Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

@mutlu_inek: Well, I never stated that those apps are going to be part of any KDE's release, only that they are not gonna be released as a part of 4.1 wink
Stable version of yakuake for KDE 4 was released in June (at least that's what yakuake's webpage says). The same goes for ktorrent.
And digikam is in beta version (which was released a week ago). So it is considerably better than Amarok or K3b, but I wouldn't call it 'ready for months'.
The other question is, if they can be compiled with 4.1RC1 release (probably, but haven't tried that yet), or they need KDE's svn version to work.

Having said that, 4.1RC1 works really really nice and has only minor glitches. KDE3 apps work flawlessly in it (at least in the version from mine repository tongue ).
I'm missing auto hiding panels, but I am considering completely switching to it.

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#35 2008-07-17 14:19:00

staple
Member
Registered: 2007-09-28
Posts: 81

Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

but still, why not just add it to the official repos?

we can pacman -Sy k3b amarok

i don't mind having a few qt3 apps smile

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#36 2008-07-17 14:26:27

tanis
Member
From: Poland / Waterloo, ON, Canada
Registered: 2007-04-21
Posts: 259

Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

Me neither smile
The drawback of using KDE3's apps, is that they need to load separate libraries, increasing memory consumption.
Also, they might have slightly different Look&Feel - they would use different icons, and would have some things done in a different way.
But they are way more similar to the rest of KDE than Gtk/Gnome apps (and even non-kde, Qt3/4 apps), and often people use those anyway.

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#37 2008-07-17 14:35:00

staple
Member
Registered: 2007-09-28
Posts: 81

Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

indeed. any modern computer is more than capable of loading qt3 and qt4 concurrently. i've running qt4 apps (skype) qt3 apps (opera) gtk apps (pidgin) without a hiccup.

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#38 2008-07-17 15:06:24

tanis
Member
From: Poland / Waterloo, ON, Canada
Registered: 2007-04-21
Posts: 259

Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

@staple: qt3 + qt4 is small when compared to kde3 + kde4 stuff wink

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#39 2008-07-17 18:45:40

kleverness
Member
Registered: 2008-07-16
Posts: 17

Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

ozar wrote:
kleverness wrote:

The devs have clearly stated that this will be the first version ready for normal users smile

That's really very good news to hear.

I'm guessing then that means that all the various apps that have been working in KDE3 will also finally be available and working in KDE4.1?

For instance, I've not been able to get K3b to work properly in any of the svn builds or beta builds that I've tried over the last few months (I've not tried any rc builds, as of yet).  The last time I checked, Konversation wasn't even ported to KDE4, yet.  Of course, there are lots of other apps that would need to be available and working for KDE4 before it's "truly ready" for normal users, in my own opinion, anyway.

If it's really ready, I say bring it on!   cool

Hi!
KDE official releases contains only the set of packages of KDE project. This packages have all the same release schedule and are (in theory) at the same level of development. However, not every software which depends on KDE is part of the KDE project. Amarok, Yakuake, K3B and Ktorrent for example are not included in any KDE release, the have they own release schedule and therefore they are not at the same development level. So when I mean KDE 4.1 is ready I mean the packages which are part of the KDE project.

Here's some information about current development of some popular independent packages from extragear:
-Amarok: It's usable for me on every day usage, but lack functionality and crashes sometimes because it's alpha code. Probably first final version will be in a few months this year, before 4.2 release.
-K3b: Interface seems to be working fine but half of the time I try to burn a CD/DVD the application crashes, but sometimes it works. I've heard that it's probable that a beta version will be out soon.
-KTorrent: A first version for KDE4 called 3.1 has been release about a month ago and it's rock solid smile I'm currently using 3.2 dev which is being developed and I found it very stable.
-Yakuake: Also there was a KDE4 release about a month ago which is very solid. Like KTorrent, I'm using a devel version and it's also very stable.
-Digikam: I'm not a user of this application but I have read that there was a beta KDE4 version released last week which is fairly stable.

In my case, there are only 2 applications which use KDE3 libraries that i'm using:
-Quanta (PHP development). The ONLY kde set of packages which will not be part of 4.1 (postponed to 4.2) is the one related to development tools. (Kdevelop, Quanta, etc).
-K3b: KDE4 version it's not reliable. Remember that this package is from extragear, NOT part of KDE official packages.

So, as a 4.1 user I can assure that every application from this release is ready for normal usage. Regarding extragear packages, if you're KTorrent or Yakuake user you will be delighted of the current KDE4 releases. If you use Amarok, you can also migrate to Amarok 2 development version but bear in mind that it's not as stable and complete as the KDE3 version, but stable enough to play music. K3B users should probably keep with the KDE3 version for a couple of months, it works perfectly under KDE4.1. Finally, users dependent on KDE development tools that don't like using their KDE3 versions under KDE4 should probably wait till 4.2.

I think that's all. Enjoy this great 4.1 release.:D

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#40 2008-07-17 20:22:41

staple
Member
Registered: 2007-09-28
Posts: 81

Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

you don't need 2 versions of kde to run those apps, just 2 versions of qt

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#41 2008-07-17 20:24:27

tanis
Member
From: Poland / Waterloo, ON, Canada
Registered: 2007-04-21
Posts: 259

Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

staple wrote:

you don't need 2 versions of kde to run those apps, just 2 versions of qt

No. If you run KDE3 apps they will load KDE3 libraries. And qt3 library as well.

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#42 2008-07-17 22:41:58

ozar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2005-02-18
Posts: 1,686

Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

Guys, I've just loaded 4.1-rc1 onto a fresh Arch install (no KDE3 onboard) and am still having various stability issues.

Kwrite crashes at times, the trash can doesn't always empty, startup sounds cut off before they complete the file they are playing, the mouse cursor disappears at times, the background seems to vanish at logout time, and various other weird things are happening.  I know it's only an RC release, but it was working better for me back when it was still beta, and even before that.

If there's not a huge improvement by the time the official 4.1 is released a few weeks from now, I've gotta tell you that I hope it doesn't go into 'extra' until version 4.2 is ready, or perhaps even later than that if need be.  I've always preferred KDE over Gnome, but sadly they've been losing me ever since 4.0 was released far too early.

Note that I'm still reserving final judgement for a release or two on down the road, but in the interim, here's hoping for lots of improvement!  cool


oz

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#43 2008-07-18 09:32:53

dyscoria
Member
Registered: 2008-01-10
Posts: 1,007

Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

ozar wrote:

they've been losing me ever since 4.0 was released far too early.

4.0 was _not_ released too early. The KDE developers just didn't put enough stress on the fact that people were _not_ meant to flock to it worldwide as a completely stable feature complete desktop. That's why there's been sooooo many blogs about how disappointed with 4.0 people are. They just don't understand that 4.0 had a different purpose.

A little grey area here though that KDE have left for users and distributions to decide on. They say about KDE 4.1: "some features are not yet complete, but should be ready for KDE 4.2" and that "if these issues are important to you, you should stay with KDE 3.5 or KDE 4.0 until KDE 4.2 when most of these issues are scheduled to be resolved."

Last edited by dyscoria (2008-07-18 09:33:28)


flack 2.0.6: menu-driven BASH script to easily tag FLAC files (AUR)
knock-once 1.2: BASH script to easily create/send one-time sequences for knockd (forum/AUR)

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#44 2008-07-19 23:09:00

venky80
Member
Registered: 2007-05-13
Posts: 1,002

Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

I am having few issues with folder view, it is very unresponsive on my dell xps laptop, i thought it would improve as we near 4.1 but it seems there is no improvement , i am on 4.0.99
Resizing and moving it is a nightmare and if by mistake i hover my mouse over it, my system chokes.
GTK apps like Open office 3 beta and firefox have very bad performance when i minimize /maximize them (i see a black screen b4 i see the maximized window), I just want to know if these are 4.1 issues or I am just having some other issues?

I am on kdemod4 32 bit with nvidia 173.4.09-4 driver

I am disappointed with the performance of kde 4.1, I think I have a very modern laptop and folder view still sucks ass. Can someone tell me how I can report the bug on the issue i am facing?


Acer Aspire V5-573P Antergos KDE

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#45 2008-07-19 23:24:44

Pierre
Developer
From: Bonn
Registered: 2004-07-05
Posts: 1,964
Website

Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

This is nvidias fault, not kde. You'll have to wait until nvidia fixes its drivers.

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#46 2008-07-19 23:31:33

tanis
Member
From: Poland / Waterloo, ON, Canada
Registered: 2007-04-21
Posts: 259

Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

@venky80: Have a look here: http://techbase.kde.org/User:Lemma/KDE4-NVIDIA . There is a recipe that might help you (or not wink ).

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#47 2008-07-20 07:20:51

venky80
Member
Registered: 2007-05-13
Posts: 1,002

Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

tanis wrote:

@venky80: Have a look here: http://techbase.kde.org/User:Lemma/KDE4-NVIDIA . There is a recipe that might help you (or not wink ).

Thank you tanis good to know it is nvidia piece of crap!

Will wait!, page is bookmarked. Thanks


Acer Aspire V5-573P Antergos KDE

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#48 2008-07-24 16:18:16

mutlu_inek
Member
From: all over the place
Registered: 2006-11-18
Posts: 683

Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

Yay!

4.1 is in testing now, for both archs. See http://www.archlinux.org/packages/searc … &limit=200

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#49 2008-07-24 16:24:47

mutlu_inek
Member
From: all over the place
Registered: 2006-11-18
Posts: 683

Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

And it will go to extra this weekend!

http://archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-dev … 07254.html


Edit:
For those who want to migrate configs, have a look at this thread over on the kdemod forum: http://kdemod.ath.cx/bbs/viewtopic.php?id=741

Last edited by mutlu_inek (2008-07-24 16:26:43)

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#50 2008-07-24 16:35:12

staple
Member
Registered: 2007-09-28
Posts: 81

Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

yay!

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