Gnome 2.24

isak · 2008-09-24 21:41:36

gwash wrote:

ok, wonder and i have discussed the possibility of a gnome sub-community for arch (i wasn't really serious the first time around), we both agreed it's a good idea (obviously) and thought we should bring the discussion here, ideas and comments are welcomed..

What would the sub community have to offer that arch doesn't offer now? The package updates seems fast enough.

gwash · 2008-09-24 21:56:47

isak wrote:

What would the sub community have to offer that arch doesn't offer now? The package updates seems fast enough.

Archlinux branding, more eye candy, more (working) binaries, extended grouping, maybe even performance patches at some point/give something back to the gnome community.. suggestions?

libervisco · 2008-09-24 22:43:01

gwash wrote:

isak wrote:
What would the sub community have to offer that arch doesn't offer now? The package updates seems fast enough.
Archlinux branding, more eye candy, more (working) binaries, extended grouping, maybe even performance patches at some point/give something back to the gnome community.. suggestions?

Just don't overdo it. The fact it doesn't customize too much is one of the strengths of Arch.

Kinda like "government which governs least governs best", it could be said for distros that "distro which does least does best". So among distros Ubuntu is the welfare state and Arch is a minarchist republic, or even an anarchy!!

Edit: OK, it's a poor analogy, but anyway. It's cool so long as it's KISS.

Last edited by libervisco (2008-09-24 22:47:16)

gwash · 2008-09-24 23:17:35

libervisco wrote:

Just don't overdo it. The fact it doesn't customize too much is one of the strengths of Arch.

branding and eye-candy does not necessarily mean 'added bloat', the goal is to improve the interface/create a better user experience, not another reason to verbally abuse your monitor.

Kinda like "government which governs least governs best", it could be said for distros that "distro which does least does best". So among distros Ubuntu is the welfare state and Arch is a minarchist republic, or even an anarchy!!

read my lips: no welfare for noobs! we're not planning on adding anything the user doesn't need, but we will try to make it readily available if he ever changed his mind..

Edit: OK, it's a poor analogy, but anyway. It's cool so long as it's KISS.

not at all, i'm an anarcho-syndicalist myself (now you know why), and KISS is my bible!

skottish · 2008-09-24 23:44:42

I'm not a Gnome user, but I am a former KDEmod user. There were definite improvements for me with KDEmod, including some obvious speed gains. I can see where a project like this would be appealing to a lot of users.

speedboy · 2008-09-25 00:20:03

gwash wrote:

we need a gnome sub-community for arch (something similar to that kdemod one), who's willing to lobby for us?

Ever since i tried kdemod and was impressed by it, i was looking for something similar like that for gnome. So i think it's a great idea!

Last edited by speedboy (2008-09-25 00:21:33)

Odd-rationale · 2008-09-25 00:57:53

I find gnome to be modular already...

I'm not too sure what more we could add...

fflarex · 2008-09-25 02:01:07

Yeah, with KDEmod there was a very clear need for it due to the way official KDE is packaged in Arch. For gnome however, the number of changes would be quite minimal I think and I dunno if it would be worth it (but go ahead if you really want it, I'm not trying to stop you!)

I don't use gnome (except to try out new releases every so often) and probably wouldn't use this project, but here are a couple of my suggestions:
- Ubuntu's logout menu
- Fill out the preferences/system menus a little more than default Arch
- PackageKit could make this worthwhile
- A totally kickass default theme like kdemod-legacy had to set it apart (might be harder though, default gnome looks fine whereas default kde3 looks like crap)

Phrodo_00 · 2008-09-25 02:37:48

fflarex wrote:

Well yeah... it's technically been available for a long time. But apparently it has still not been deemed stable (or something like that...)
Which is a pity, as it's one of the few gnome apps that tempts me every once in a while, but without webkit it is just not distinguished enough to justify me using it over firefox.

If I remember well, it was not included by the release team (the epiphany suposed to ship with 2.24 didn't have suport for gecko, it was webkit-only) because there are still gnome apps using gecko, and they didn't like the idea of depending on both gecko and webkit, so I guess we'll have to wait for... whatever was using gecko to stop (afaik yelp and devhelp support webkit, and evolution uses gtkhtml2)

skottish · 2008-09-25 05:17:12

Phrodo_00 wrote:

fflarex wrote:
Well yeah... it's technically been available for a long time. But apparently it has still not been deemed stable (or something like that...)
Which is a pity, as it's one of the few gnome apps that tempts me every once in a while, but without webkit it is just not distinguished enough to justify me using it over firefox.
If I remember well, it was not included by the release team (the epiphany suposed to ship with 2.24 didn't have suport for gecko, it was webkit-only) because there are still gnome apps using gecko, and they didn't like the idea of depending on both gecko and webkit, so I guess we'll have to wait for... whatever was using gecko to stop (afaik yelp and devhelp support webkit, and evolution uses gtkhtml2)

Webkit on Linux isn't quite ready for prime time anyway. Both Midori and Epiphany-webkit suffer from some pretty bad performance issues.

--EDIT--

It seems that I'm wrong about the performance. It's OpenJDK6 browser plug-in that killing the performace, even on sites that don't require it. I removed it and epiphany-webkit is running great.

With that being said, there's a lot of stuff that just isn't working yet. I doubt it's browser specific because it's the same stuff on both epiphany and midori.

Last edited by skottish (2008-09-25 16:46:03)

libervisco · 2008-09-25 15:02:54

gwash wrote:

not at all, i'm an anarcho-syndicalist myself (now you know why), and KISS is my bible!

I'm an anarcho-capitalist. So we at least have "anarcho" in common.

No rulers, no bloat! (And I do think syndicalists and capitalists can coexist in anarchy, which is partly why I call myself voluntariyst - let all human action be voluntary, so whether you want to create a union or a company, so long as nobody is forced into it it's all good.. kinda like Arch. ).

pjjanak · 2008-09-25 17:00:14

I think a Arch-Gnome community wouldn't be a bad idea. Though, I'm not sure we would call it Gnomemod. As has been already mentioned, and is clearly visible by doing a pacman -Ss gnome, Gnome is already pretty modularized. But some performance tweaking and Arch-ifying would be pretty nice .

Also, I can't wait for 2.24 to show up in the repos! :-D

Peter

linfan · 2008-09-25 17:20:58

Reading on gnome.org I see that Gnome 2.24.1 Stable Release is not ready until October 22. So, I see no need to speed up the release until the worst bugs are eliminated.

For further reference: http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointTwentythree

Last edited by linfan (2008-09-25 17:21:39)

skottish · 2008-09-25 17:22:49

linfan wrote:

Reading on gnome.org I see that Gnome 2.24.1 Stable Release is not ready until October 22. So, I see no need to speed up the release until the worst bugs are eliminated.
For further reference: http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointTwentythree

That's 2.24.1 and 2.24.0 is the stable release.

Odd-rationale · 2008-09-25 17:24:20

Is there anything we can do to help gnome 2.24 hit the repos? Help with packaging, testing, or something? Or all we can do is just wait...

skottish · 2008-09-25 17:27:47

Odd-rationale wrote:

Is there anything we can do to help gnome 2.24 hit the repos? Help with packaging, testing, or something? Or all we can do is just wait...

JGC wrote:

Most of the work for gnome 2.24 is prepared, but there's some things that need to be done:
- completely revised gdm package (the current one sucks)
- auto-start for dbus, in 2.22 gnome-session handles this, in 2.24 we have to do it ourselves
- make sure consolekit and policykit integration works 100% fine

I'm not sure how complex what JGC said is, but it sounds like the wait won't be long.

gwash · 2008-09-25 18:11:02

first off, i apologise to esperanto for hijacking his thread (but we gotta start somewhere ), we will have our own thread once we got a name and clear set of goals/agenda..

Odd-rationale wrote:

I find gnome to be modular already...

making gnome modular is not one of our initial goals (and will probably never be), i only cited kdemod as an example (of a functioning sub-community)

@fflarex: points taken, thanks

libervisco wrote:

..And I do think syndicalists and capitalists can coexist in anarchy..

sure, we need someone to fight against..

pjjanak wrote:

I think a Arch-Gnome community wouldn't be a bad idea. Though, I'm not sure we would call it Gnomemod. As has been already mentioned, and is clearly visible by doing a pacman -Ss gnome, Gnome is already pretty modularized. But some performance tweaking and Arch-ifying would be pretty nice smile.

as mentioned earlier, we are not planning on making gnome more modularized, i haven't discussed this with anyone yet, but we may actually make use of arch binaries already in official repos, so you probably won't have to choose between us and mainstream arch, that being said, everything is still on the table, we haven't come up with a real (practical) plan yet, but were hoping that you'll provide us with more ideas/volunteers.

kasa · 2008-09-25 18:43:27

JGC wrote:

Most of the work for gnome 2.24 is prepared, but there's some things that need to be done:
- completely revised gdm package (the current one sucks)
- auto-start for dbus, in 2.22 gnome-session handles this, in 2.24 we have to do it ourselves
- make sure consolekit and policykit integration works 100% fine

JGC, Since I'm quite interested in the topic (especially consolekit and policykit integration) are you accepting any volunteers / testers for the packages ? Are the PKGBUILDs for GNOME 2.24 available anywhere on the net ?

JGC · 2008-09-25 20:46:04

Policykit appears to be working, no idea about consolekit yet.
As for PKGBUILDS: if you're on i686, abs will pull in /var/abs/gnome which contains all the gnome packages I had prepared for 2.23.91. Some of them are missing: they're either already in testing as final version, or they're not done yet.

baze · 2008-09-26 05:31:23

JGC wrote:

Policykit appears to be working, no idea about consolekit yet.
As for PKGBUILDS: if you're on i686, abs will pull in /var/abs/gnome which contains all the gnome packages I had prepared for 2.23.91. Some of them are missing: they're either already in testing as final version, or they're not done yet.

consolekit doesn't work yet. i tested it with networkmanager using at_console="true" instead of group="network" for the policy, but i'm not recognized as being at the current console.
packagekit however is working fine here now.

JGC · 2008-09-26 06:36:17

I think consolekit needs a pam module, but I could be wrong about that.

wantilles · 2008-09-26 07:03:01

JGC wrote:

Most of the work for gnome 2.24 is prepared, but there's some things that need to be done:
- completely revised gdm package (the current one sucks)
- auto-start for dbus, in 2.22 gnome-session handles this, in 2.24 we have to do it ourselves
- make sure consolekit and policykit integration works 100% fine

I can do some Gnome 2.24 x86_64 testing.

But I would like to know a list of all the packages I need to pull from testing.

@ JGC:

Any news on better intergration of mail-notification and Gnome keyring/seahorse?

i.e. I would like mail-notification not to ask me on every logon about a password to gain access to Gnome keyring.

I had built gnome-keyring with pam support in the past, but that did not help.

linfan · 2008-09-26 11:32:16

As i read it - 2.24-0 is Final Release and 2.24-1 is Stable Release.

neowolf · 2008-09-26 12:41:18

linfan wrote:

As i read it - 2.24-0 is Final Release and 2.24-1 is Stable Release.

2.(evennumber) is the stable release with gnome. 2.(evennumber).x is a bugfix release. This is how Gnome's been operating for a very long while.

It's specified as final because that's the actual launch of the platform.

baze · 2008-09-26 15:01:40

JGC wrote:

I think consolekit needs a pam module, but I could be wrong about that.

yeah, i tried to find out how to get it to work too, and i only found that adding pam_consolekit (or i think the new module is pam_ck_connector) directly into the gdm pam file is the wrong way and _not_ encouraged by gnome (found it in a gentoo bug report, iirc) but i couldn't look more deeply into the right way because i had to go to work

i'll try to find out how to do it the right way later this evening.

Arch Linux

#26 2008-09-24 21:41:36

Re: Gnome 2.24

#27 2008-09-24 21:56:47

Re: Gnome 2.24

#28 2008-09-24 22:43:01

Re: Gnome 2.24

#29 2008-09-24 23:17:35

Re: Gnome 2.24

#30 2008-09-24 23:44:42

Re: Gnome 2.24

#31 2008-09-25 00:20:03

Re: Gnome 2.24

#32 2008-09-25 00:57:53

Re: Gnome 2.24

#33 2008-09-25 02:01:07

Re: Gnome 2.24

#34 2008-09-25 02:37:48

Re: Gnome 2.24

#35 2008-09-25 05:17:12

Re: Gnome 2.24

#36 2008-09-25 15:02:54

Re: Gnome 2.24

#37 2008-09-25 17:00:14

Re: Gnome 2.24

#38 2008-09-25 17:20:58

Re: Gnome 2.24

#39 2008-09-25 17:22:49

Re: Gnome 2.24

#40 2008-09-25 17:24:20

Re: Gnome 2.24

#41 2008-09-25 17:27:47

Re: Gnome 2.24

#42 2008-09-25 18:11:02

Re: Gnome 2.24

#43 2008-09-25 18:43:27

Re: Gnome 2.24

#44 2008-09-25 20:46:04

Re: Gnome 2.24

#45 2008-09-26 05:31:23

Re: Gnome 2.24

#46 2008-09-26 06:36:17

Re: Gnome 2.24

#47 2008-09-26 07:03:01

Re: Gnome 2.24

#48 2008-09-26 11:32:16

Re: Gnome 2.24

#49 2008-09-26 12:41:18

Re: Gnome 2.24

#50 2008-09-26 15:01:40

Re: Gnome 2.24

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