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#1326 2010-02-18 14:57:44

snack
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From: Italy
Registered: 2009-01-13
Posts: 672

Re: The AMD/ATI Bar & Grill

Vipes wrote:

I've been out of the loop for awhile after being in Afghanistan. I guess it's better to stick with a Catalyst 9.11 driver and Xorg 1.6? Obviously Catalyst 9.11-2 requires a kernel of <2.6.32 so stay I'll be staying with 2.6.31-ARCH. So much for a full system upgrade. ATI needs to get into shape. I don't have these issues with my nVidia cards.

I'm still with Catalyst 9.10, xorg-server 1.6 and kernel 2.6.31. I hope that when Ubuntu 10.4 is out this drivers can be a little more usable for Arch people (btw, which kernel and xorg will be shipped with Ubuntu 10.4?).
In the meanwhile, I installe the open source driver on my 64 bit system, just to monitor improvements. I still have to say that Catalyst is necessary on laptops, due to extremely reduced battery life with open driver.

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#1327 2010-02-18 15:10:34

Vi0L0
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From: Poland
Registered: 2009-06-24
Posts: 1,301
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Re: The AMD/ATI Bar & Grill

snack wrote:

I hope that when Ubuntu 10.4 is out this drivers can be a little more usable for Arch people (btw, which kernel and xorg will be shipped with Ubuntu 10.4?).

From http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=n … &px=Nzk5MQ :

With the X.Org Server 1.7-using Ubuntu 10.04 LTS coming in April, Catalyst 10.3 or 10.4 will support this updated X.Org Server finally. However, at the end of March this cycle will be restarted all over again once X Server 1.8 has been released.

Ubuntu 10.04 LTS should base on 2.6.32

Last edited by Vi0L0 (2010-02-18 15:12:30)

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#1328 2010-02-18 15:14:32

snack
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From: Italy
Registered: 2009-01-13
Posts: 672

Re: The AMD/ATI Bar & Grill

Vi0L0 wrote:
snack wrote:

I hope that when Ubuntu 10.4 is out this drivers can be a little more usable for Arch people (btw, which kernel and xorg will be shipped with Ubuntu 10.4?).

From http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=n … &px=Nzk5MQ :

Upsetting many users is the fact that Catalyst 10.2 still lacks support for X Server 1.7, which has been released as stable since last October and has already had five point releases. With the X.Org Server 1.7-using Ubuntu 10.04 LTS coming in April, Catalyst 10.3 or 10.4 will support this updated X.Org Server finally. However, at the end of March this cycle will be restarted all over again once X Server 1.8 has been released.

Ubuntu 10.04 LTS should base on 2.6.32

Thanks Vi0l0. I hope that at least in a small time window we can get a Catalyst release which works with the current versions of kernel and xorg, so that I can update my system and then freeze it again, waiting for the next time window...
It's becoming frustrating, my video packages are undergoing an upgrade cycle which follows the release cycle of Ubuntu (this time 9.10->10.4, will I have to wait 10.10 to upgrade again?).

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#1329 2010-02-18 15:55:47

Vi0L0
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From: Poland
Registered: 2009-06-24
Posts: 1,301
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Re: The AMD/ATI Bar & Grill

snack wrote:

I hope that at least in a small time window we can get a Catalyst release which works with the current versions of kernel and xorg

Well actually catalyst may miss that big_smile
Xorg server 1.7.5 announced few days ago (and available on arch repo) is the latest one from the 1.7 line...
It's time for Xorg 7.6 / Xorg server 1.8.x
Xorg server 1.8 rc1 is 6 days old now, and stable 1.8 should be available in less then a month...
It's possible that we will have 1.8 on our repos before catalyst hits 1.7 support tongue
Isn't that great?! cool (im also trying to be ironic smile)

Last edited by Vi0L0 (2010-02-18 15:58:24)

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#1330 2010-02-18 16:02:53

snack
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From: Italy
Registered: 2009-01-13
Posts: 672

Re: The AMD/ATI Bar & Grill

Vi0L0 wrote:
snack wrote:

I hope that at least in a small time window we can get a Catalyst release which works with the current versions of kernel and xorg

Well actually catalyst may miss that big_smile
Xorg server 1.7.5 announced few days ago (and available on arch repo) is the latest one from the 1.7 line...
It's time for Xorg 7.6 / Xorg server 1.8.x
Xorg server 1.8 rc1 is 6 days old now, and stable 1.8 should be available in less then a month...
It's possible that we will have 1.8 on our repos before catalyst hits 1.7 support tongue
Isn't that great?! cool (im also trying to be ironic smile)

Great! I think I'll stick forever with 9.10...
A great idea would be to set up a "Catalyst repository", with kernel, xorg and catalyst and all other packages which cannot be bleeding edge due to the video driver. This way, one could always use pacman -Syu without having to blacklist packages (I think).
Did anyone already set up something similar? (I think this should be very time-consuming smile )

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#1331 2010-02-18 16:14:34

Vi0L0
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From: Poland
Registered: 2009-06-24
Posts: 1,301
Website

Re: The AMD/ATI Bar & Grill

snack wrote:

Great! I think I'll stick forever with 9.10...
A great idea would be to set up a "Catalyst repository", with kernel, xorg and catalyst and all other packages which cannot be bleeding edge due to the video driver. This way, one could always use pacman -Syu without having to blacklist packages (I think).
Did anyone already set up something similar? (I think this should be very time-consuming smile )

Im sure i will make this kind of repo on my own hdd, just before 1.8 release and just for catalyst. Maybe i'll make such repo available on the net - like the chakra project did in here:
[xorg-1.6.3.901]
Server = http://www.chakra-project.org/repo/xorg-old/x86_64

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#1332 2010-02-18 16:17:41

timong
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From: Budapest, HU
Registered: 2007-02-20
Posts: 91
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Re: The AMD/ATI Bar & Grill

Definitely a good idea. i think there's already one, tho' i didnt use it, but soon that repo should be updated if at last 1.7 comes true...

btw, i can understand how hard it is too keep up the pace, when e.g. windows7 will be there for years, stable mostly... nvidia is doing a very great job keeping up with xorg. i wonder when amd will hire enough people or talented enough people to follow the changes.


2x arch amd64, one with Intel GP GMA965, one with ATi Mobility HD 5650

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#1333 2010-02-18 16:17:46

snack
Member
From: Italy
Registered: 2009-01-13
Posts: 672

Re: The AMD/ATI Bar & Grill

Vi0L0 wrote:
snack wrote:

Great! I think I'll stick forever with 9.10...
A great idea would be to set up a "Catalyst repository", with kernel, xorg and catalyst and all other packages which cannot be bleeding edge due to the video driver. This way, one could always use pacman -Syu without having to blacklist packages (I think).
Did anyone already set up something similar? (I think this should be very time-consuming smile )

Im sure i will make this kind of repo on my own hdd, just before 1.8 release and just for catalyst. Maybe i'll make such repo available on the net - like the chakra project did in here:
[xorg-1.6.3.901]
Server = http://www.chakra-project.org/repo/xorg-old/x86_64

Yes, I was aware of that Chakra repo. But I think it will be far more useful to have also kernel and catalyst in the repo, to have a set of in-sync and compatible precompiled packages.

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#1334 2010-02-18 16:28:26

Vi0L0
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From: Poland
Registered: 2009-06-24
Posts: 1,301
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Re: The AMD/ATI Bar & Grill

snack wrote:

Yes, I was aware of that Chakra repo. But I think it will be far more useful to have also kernel and catalyst in the repo, to have a set of in-sync and compatible precompiled packages.

Maybe it is a good idea, but then in future some fresh arch packages won't work with older kernel...
Hmm... it will be good to have more repos with different kernels/catalysts in that still works with each other.
OK, we will see - if i'll find some time for this such repos will appear, also i may need some help with i686 repo - i've got i686 arch on virtual machine so i may build packages, but actually i cannot test how they work.

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#1335 2010-02-18 17:50:16

Vi0L0
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From: Poland
Registered: 2009-06-24
Posts: 1,301
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Re: The AMD/ATI Bar & Grill

timong wrote:

i wonder when amd will hire enough people or talented enough people to follow the changes.

Looks like this question is following us for ages, just like "what is the meaning of the universe?" one smile
There's no simple answer...
And how is it possible to release "driver" with no kwin support in this days?! mad
Or from the other side: why ati's customers must to suffer without any reason?
This driver shouldn't be released at all, well definitely not as stable one!
This company is just shameless...

Btw: and where's release notes?... tongue

Last edited by Vi0L0 (2010-02-18 17:53:26)

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#1336 2010-02-18 18:03:02

snack
Member
From: Italy
Registered: 2009-01-13
Posts: 672

Re: The AMD/ATI Bar & Grill

Vi0L0 wrote:
timong wrote:

i wonder when amd will hire enough people or talented enough people to follow the changes.

Looks like this question is following us for ages, just like "what is the meaning of the universe?" one smile
There's no simple answer...
And how is it possible to release "driver" with no kwin support in this days?! mad
Or from the other side: why ati's customers must to suffer without any reason?
This driver shouldn't be released at all, well definitely not as stable one!
This company is just shameless...

Btw: and where's release notes?... tongue

I think that if ATI would stop with this stupid monthly release cycle to focus on releases at intelligent timepoints (eg., new xorg release) like nvidia, then we would all benefit from this. They don't have the manpower or the ability or whatsoever to do a good job within the current scheduling. I only hope that they will realize it sooon, but I'm a dreamer... big_smile

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#1337 2010-02-18 18:14:10

Vi0L0
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From: Poland
Registered: 2009-06-24
Posts: 1,301
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Re: The AMD/ATI Bar & Grill

snack wrote:

I think that if ATI would stop with this stupid monthly release cycle to focus on releases at intelligent timepoints (eg., new xorg release) like nvidia, then we would all benefit from this. They don't have the manpower or the ability or whatsoever to do a good job within the current scheduling. I only hope that they will realize it sooon, but I'm a dreamer... big_smile

True, but still i don't believe scheduling is the only reason...
It's almost 5 months after x-server 1.7 debut... even before that time there were 1.7 betas and RCs. C'mon - how much time ati need to do some "cosmetic" changes?
I am not an expert but implementation of direct2d looks harder than implementation of x-server 1.7 support...
Edit: @snack: i belive you were right saying that ati follows the release cycle of Ubuntu - it's their only real schedule wink

Last edited by Vi0L0 (2010-02-18 18:17:43)

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#1338 2010-02-18 18:19:13

Vi0L0
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From: Poland
Registered: 2009-06-24
Posts: 1,301
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Re: The AMD/ATI Bar & Grill

Blessed be the day when oss driver finally hits powersave and evergreen support! smile

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#1339 2010-02-18 18:19:22

Vipes
Member
From: Okinawa, Japan
Registered: 2008-06-06
Posts: 14

Re: The AMD/ATI Bar & Grill

snack wrote:
Vipes wrote:

I've been out of the loop for awhile after being in Afghanistan. I guess it's better to stick with a Catalyst 9.11 driver and Xorg 1.6? Obviously Catalyst 9.11-2 requires a kernel of <2.6.32 so stay I'll be staying with 2.6.31-ARCH. So much for a full system upgrade. ATI needs to get into shape. I don't have these issues with my nVidia cards.

I'm still with Catalyst 9.10, xorg-server 1.6 and kernel 2.6.31. I hope that when Ubuntu 10.4 is out this drivers can be a little more usable for Arch people (btw, which kernel and xorg will be shipped with Ubuntu 10.4?).
In the meanwhile, I installe the open source driver on my 64 bit system, just to monitor improvements. I still have to say that Catalyst is necessary on laptops, due to extremely reduced battery life with open driver.

I think that's probably a safe route to go. I look at it this way, with the current versions I have, my system is stable and everything works. No point in breaking it trying to make ATI's crap work. That and like you said, I'm on a laptop. It makes no sense to dent my battery life working on the open drivers.

One thing I don't get if someone would explain it to me. What does an Ubuntu release have to do with Archers? I'm assuming ATI has a working relationship with the Ubuntu folks?


Main Box: AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 6400+ @ 3.2Ghz, 4GB Kingston HyperX DDR2 PC6400 @ 4-4-4-12, eVGA NVidia 8800GTX w/ 768MB DDR3, Arch64 and Windows 7 64-bit on Dual boot
Laptops: Sony VPCF1 Arch64/Win7, Dell Inspiron E1705 Arch32.

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#1340 2010-02-18 18:19:42

snack
Member
From: Italy
Registered: 2009-01-13
Posts: 672

Re: The AMD/ATI Bar & Grill

Vi0L0 wrote:

True, but still i don't believe scheduling is the only reason...
It's almost 5 months after x-server 1.7 debut... even before that time there were 1.7 betas and RCs. C'mon - how much time ati need to do some "cosmetic" changes?
I am not an expert but implementation of direct2d looks harder than implementation of x-server 1.7 support...

I fear that they loose some amount of time by preparing the releases, ie., to make the binary blob working. I think that if every month you have to release your software then every month you have to take care of fixing all those bugs which would make the driver unusable, like segfaults. This way it's very difficult to start some major modification: you will only have one month to make it work for the customers. But maybe I'm wrong, I'm not an expert of software development on large scale...

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#1341 2010-02-18 18:21:48

snack
Member
From: Italy
Registered: 2009-01-13
Posts: 672

Re: The AMD/ATI Bar & Grill

Vipes wrote:

One thing I don't get if someone would explain it to me. What does an Ubuntu release have to do with Archers? I'm assuming ATI has a working relationship with the Ubuntu folks?

Yes, ATI officially supports Ubuntu, so they care about making their drivers work with the last Ubuntu version. Sadly, it's the only thing they apparently take care of...

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#1342 2010-02-18 20:09:05

Vi0L0
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From: Poland
Registered: 2009-06-24
Posts: 1,301
Website

Re: The AMD/ATI Bar & Grill

snack wrote:

I fear that they loose some amount of time by preparing the releases, ie., to make the binary blob working. I think that if every month you have to release your software then every month you have to take care of fixing all those bugs which would make the driver unusable, like segfaults. This way it's very difficult to start some major modification: you will only have one month to make it work for the customers. But maybe I'm wrong, I'm not an expert of software development on large scale...

That sounds like good excuse... But we all known catalyst - it supports only few distros (and there're no big changes inside distro until it hits new release - period ~6 months) , catalyst fixes only few less important bugs for month, new features are buggy for months - like XvBa for example, ati doesn't even need to figure out how to support newest kernels cuz community already figured that out tongue, ati is so lazy that they are copying direct2d from their windows driver although we have some great 2d acceleration solutions here on linux, even more - our linux solutions are already tested, stable and compatible with linux software. And last but not least - ati devs can release driver that stink even much more than their previous child (regression is too soft word to discribe no kwin support)...
The only good things that shows during lasts months in catalyst were OpenGL 3.2 support and OpenCL support - but it's copied from Windows driver.
Edit: Maybe they are not putting release notes cuz newest catalyst isn't fully supporting any linux distribution (cuz of no kwin support tongue wink )

Last edited by Vi0L0 (2010-02-18 20:40:21)

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#1343 2010-02-18 20:53:04

Vi0L0
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From: Poland
Registered: 2009-06-24
Posts: 1,301
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Re: The AMD/ATI Bar & Grill

http://blogs.amd.com/play/2010/02/17/at … 0%99s-new/  :

Highlights of the ATI Catalyst™ 10.2 release  for Linux includes:

New Features

Support for new Linux operating systems

    * This release of ATI Catalyst™ for Linux introduces support for the following new operating systems:
          o openSUSE 11.2 production support

That's all about new linux driver wink

Last edited by Vi0L0 (2010-02-18 20:54:18)

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#1344 2010-02-19 12:29:49

Phitherek_
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From: Poland
Registered: 2008-11-08
Posts: 34
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Re: The AMD/ATI Bar & Grill

I have a question. I got the catalyst 9.10 version with catalyst-utils and all the stuff. I have also the old xorg, because I know there' s a problem with cooperation of catalyst 9.10 and newer X. I stopped upgrading my kernel recently, because of the conflict between the new kernel and catalyst 9.10. And now I discovered, that one of functions in this catalyst is somehow bad. So I have in Catalyst Control Center the multi-screen mode. In older versions it was easy to enable various options, like desktop cloning or multiple desktops on multiple screens - just by one click. And now when I try to do so, it asks me to "restart my system". When I reboot, catalyst automatically switches to "desktop cloning", so I can' t use multiple desktops and Xinerama and so on. I tried RandR, but it can only clone desktops. And I am considering catalyst update. But... somehow the catalyst-utils package disappeared from AUR and now the new catalyst conflicts with catalyst-utils that I have installed. And my question is:
- are now catalyst-utils in catalyst package?
- if not, is there a way to get the content of these two packages in newest version from AUR?
- and finally: will it work properly, when I update?


Posted by Phitherek_

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#1345 2010-02-19 12:39:25

timong
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From: Budapest, HU
Registered: 2007-02-20
Posts: 91
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Re: The AMD/ATI Bar & Grill

I don't use catalyst-utils with catalyst 10.1 - only the lib32-catalyst-utils is needed, imo. It works here okay. I didnt even know it was needed before, before you mentioned.
Will it work properly? It's a matter of trial and error with AMD catalyst. smile

What videocard btw. I have no major problems with my hd5650

I use gnome's Display setting succesfully, and i think it uses Xrandr. I had to set Virtual in xorg.conf's screen section to a higher value tho' to let it set big desktop sizes.

Last edited by timong (2010-02-19 12:40:53)


2x arch amd64, one with Intel GP GMA965, one with ATi Mobility HD 5650

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#1346 2010-02-19 12:44:57

Vi0L0
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From: Poland
Registered: 2009-06-24
Posts: 1,301
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Re: The AMD/ATI Bar & Grill

Phitherek_ wrote:

And my question is:
- are now catalyst-utils in catalyst package?

Yes, catalyst and catalyst-utils are one package now

Phitherek_ wrote:

- and finally: will it work properly, when I update?

I belive no one can answer this question... Make sure your 9.10 is backed up, and test 10.1 by yourself smile - or 10.2 if you are not kwin user.
(btw i have got PKGBUILD for 9.10, without and with a 2.6.32 patch, so i may upload it somewhere if you need to buid this package)
I can't help you with multi-screen hmm

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#1347 2010-02-19 12:49:39

Phitherek_
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From: Poland
Registered: 2008-11-08
Posts: 34
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Re: The AMD/ATI Bar & Grill

Ok, I remember I tried installing this lib32-catalyst-utils before, but it had some other lib32-* dependencies which conflicted with some packages in my system. So I passed then...

I have the Mobility Radeon hd2600 card.

One more question - I found this in AUR:

aur/catalyst-total 10.1-2 (9)                                                                                                                
    AMD/ATI kernel drivers for Radeon brand cards. Merge with the catalyst and utils, and build the fglrx module in local system.

Maybe it' s the solution to my problem?

EDIT: Ah, OK, it' s another reply now... So this catalyst-total part is no more important smile. Thank you smile.

Btw. No, I don' t use KWin. I use e17 now, and I have the KDEmod4 with plasma WM, so no KWin at all.

And I repacman-ed my catalyst before, just in case, so I have the 9.10 packages smile

Last edited by Phitherek_ (2010-02-19 12:55:34)


Posted by Phitherek_

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#1348 2010-02-19 13:05:00

Vi0L0
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From: Poland
Registered: 2009-06-24
Posts: 1,301
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Re: The AMD/ATI Bar & Grill

Phitherek_ wrote:

Ok, I remember I tried installing this lib32-catalyst-utils before, but it had some other lib32-* dependencies which conflicted with some packages in my system. So I passed then...

I have the Mobility Radeon hd2600 card.

One more question - I found this in AUR:

aur/catalyst-total 10.1-2 (9)                                                                                                                
    AMD/ATI kernel drivers for Radeon brand cards. Merge with the catalyst and utils, and build the fglrx module in local system.

Maybe it' s the solution to my problem?

EDIT: Ah, OK, it' s another reply now... So this catalyst-total part is no more important smile. Thank you smile.

Btw. No, I don' t use KWin. I use e17 now, and I have the KDEmod4 with plasma WM, so no KWin at all.

And I repacman-ed my catalyst before, just in case, so I have the 9.10 packages smile

Spoczko, but this catalyst-total looks nice - you may build utils without building module and you can do it (if i haven't missed anything) by commenting

/usr/bin/catalyst_build_module

in catalyst-total.install

Last edited by Vi0L0 (2010-02-19 13:05:59)

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#1349 2010-02-19 13:24:56

snack
Member
From: Italy
Registered: 2009-01-13
Posts: 672

Re: The AMD/ATI Bar & Grill

Phitherek_ wrote:

I have a question. I got the catalyst 9.10 version with catalyst-utils and all the stuff. I have also the old xorg, because I know there' s a problem with cooperation of catalyst 9.10 and newer X. I stopped upgrading my kernel recently, because of the conflict between the new kernel and catalyst 9.10. And now I discovered, that one of functions in this catalyst is somehow bad. So I have in Catalyst Control Center the multi-screen mode. In older versions it was easy to enable various options, like desktop cloning or multiple desktops on multiple screens - just by one click. And now when I try to do so, it asks me to "restart my system". When I reboot, catalyst automatically switches to "desktop cloning", so I can' t use multiple desktops and Xinerama and so on. I tried RandR, but it can only clone desktops. And I am considering catalyst update. But... somehow the catalyst-utils package disappeared from AUR and now the new catalyst conflicts with catalyst-utils that I have installed. And my question is:
- are now catalyst-utils in catalyst package?
- if not, is there a way to get the content of these two packages in newest version from AUR?
- and finally: will it work properly, when I update?

I use dual screen with randr and Catalyst 9.10 and it works perfectly. Here's my xorg.conf:

Section "ServerLayout"
    Identifier     "X.org Configured"
    Screen      0  "Screen0" 0 0
EndSection

Section "Monitor"
        Identifier      "LAPTOP"
        Option          "PreferredMode" "1280x800"
        #Option          "DPMS" "true"
EndSection

Section "Monitor"
        Identifier      "VGA"
        Option          "PreferredMode" "1280x1024"
        Option          "RightOf"  "LAPTOP"
EndSection

Section "Device"
        Identifier      "HD3470"
        Driver          "fglrx"
        BusID           "PCI:1:0:0"
        # Monitor options:   radeon    radeonhd    catalyst
        #          laptop          LVDS      PANEL        LCD
        #         external        VGA-0     VGA_1       CRT1
        Option         "monitor-CRT1" "VGA"
        Option         "monitor-LCD" "LAPTOP"
EndSection

Section "DRI"
        Mode 0666
        EndSection

Section "Screen"
        Identifier     "Screen0"
        Device         "HD3470"
        Monitor        "LAPTOP"
        DefaultDepth 24
        SubSection     "Display"
                Modes           "1280x800"
                Depth           24
                Virtual         2560 1024
        EndSubSection
EndSection

I use a laptop screen at 1280*800 and an external LCD screen at 1280*1024. You can adjust the settings to match your requirements.

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#1350 2010-02-19 13:43:54

Phitherek_
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From: Poland
Registered: 2008-11-08
Posts: 34
Website

Re: The AMD/ATI Bar & Grill

@snack: Ok, but I need rather dynamic setup of dual screen, because I don' t need it always, but it can be useful with presentations.
@all: Ok, I installed the newest catalyst and it works properly. I can even switch between one-screen and desktop cloning modes without rebooting! And it finally can resize image on second screen to lower resolution (so on my laptop screen I have 1280x800 and on external screen 1024x768). Multi-screen doesn' t seem to work, but e17 tries to setup something (with bad effect). Maybe the multi-screen works, but e17 or KDM disables/can' t use it?

Thank you for all the help!


Posted by Phitherek_

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