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#1 2005-03-02 12:36:48

T-Dawg
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From: Wilmington, NC
Registered: 2005-01-29
Posts: 2,734

The future: LINUX & WINDOWS

It seems Linux is growing fast nowdays. Where does everyone think Windows and Linux will stand in the near future? Some insight? Do you think Linux will ever compete with Windows for the desktop OS of choice among the common public, or even surpass?

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#2 2005-03-02 12:58:45

arooaroo
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From: London, UK
Registered: 2005-01-13
Posts: 1,268
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Re: The future: LINUX & WINDOWS

If I'm honest, as much as I'd like to see it, I don't see Linux-based OSes toppling MS in the shortterm (~ next 10 years) MS is still too big. However, I think it'll change the way big companies like MS do business. I think that MS will lose a chunk of their monopoly.

There are many naive home users out there who simply can't believe that anything given away for free is any good. And in most things in life, you would have to agree. Once MS start releasing some of their stuff under an OSS license, users will being to think "hey, if MS are doing it, then perhaps open source isn't so bad after all. Maybe I'll give that OpenOffice a go since I can't be bothering forking out another £500 to upgrade Office".

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#3 2005-03-02 16:04:54

cactus
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From: t͈̫̹ͨa͖͕͎̱͈ͨ͆ć̥̖̝o̫̫̼s͈̭̱̞͍̃!̰
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Re: The future: LINUX & WINDOWS

THE PAST: Fire and Sticks


"Be conservative in what you send; be liberal in what you accept." -- Postel's Law
"tacos" -- Cactus' Law
"t̥͍͎̪̪͗a̴̻̩͈͚ͨc̠o̩̙͈ͫͅs͙͎̙͊ ͔͇̫̜t͎̳̀a̜̞̗ͩc̗͍͚o̲̯̿s̖̣̤̙͌ ̖̜̈ț̰̫͓ạ̪͖̳c̲͎͕̰̯̃̈o͉ͅs̪ͪ ̜̻̖̜͕" -- -̖͚̫̙̓-̺̠͇ͤ̃ ̜̪̜ͯZ͔̗̭̞ͪA̝͈̙͖̩L͉̠̺͓G̙̞̦͖O̳̗͍

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#4 2005-03-02 16:14:15

dp
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From: Zürich, Switzerland
Registered: 2003-05-27
Posts: 3,363
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Re: The future: LINUX & WINDOWS

the future will come soon enough ... you should live in the PRESENT!

man, this quick-reply is great!


The impossible missions are the only ones which succeed.

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#5 2005-03-02 16:17:25

Dusty
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From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
Registered: 2004-01-18
Posts: 5,986
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Re: The future: LINUX & WINDOWS

Nobody knows. It appears the open source movement is here to stay, its not going to die out like hippie culture as MS wishes it would.

I just realized how good open source is for everybody, even Microsoft users. The most obvious example right now is Firefox. Most people are still using IE, but Firefox is forcing MS to release an update to IE. Even if Firefox doesn't take over the market like we'd all like, at least IE will be a better browser.  This will probably happen with a lot of products.

Eventually, I think MS will either have to have a radical change in viewpoint (like both IBM and Apple did a few years ago) or will go under. In the near future? nah.

Dusty

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#6 2005-03-02 18:27:50

sarah31
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From: Middle of Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 2,975
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Re: The future: LINUX & WINDOWS

Until the financial back bone of MS crumbles all other OSes will be in following pack.  The majority of the Linux Community do not have the skills and knowledge needed to advance it into a lead or shared lead position.

Even if the open source community is successful in chasing away the many false facts they still have ALOT of other problems to deal with.

Personally I don't think the size of the Linux world has grown much at all in the time I have been in it. Of course there is virtually no way of measuring who uses what accurately anyway.

I personally really couldn't care less what happens with any OS. Where an OS stands in the world use scale is really not of any importance at all to me. It never has been and never will be. What ever OS I use is not based on rank for me but how productive I can be.


AKA uknowme

I am not your friend

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#7 2005-03-02 18:40:21

IceRAM
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From: Bucharest, Romania
Registered: 2004-03-04
Posts: 772
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Re: The future: LINUX & WINDOWS

I have been reading so many blogs/news feeds lately, I no longer remember if anyone posted a link around here to this PC Magazine article:
http: //www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1768170,00.asp (un-linkified - if you're interested, use copy&paste - we should "not feed trolls" -cactus)

I'm not going to comment on it, I've just wanted to add it to the discussion, in case it didn't appear around the forums.

Edit:
* cactus calls the article a "FUD", I call it an opinion // as I said, I am not going to comment on it - feel free to make another thread out of it and post comments - I'd be mostly interested in comments from users who remember how "easy" was their first Linux install & how much of the hardware did work properly on the first boot (eh.. let's say after 5 reboots maximum)
* If anyone else thinks linking to an article which describes an idea (not really proven as far as I've noticed) brings lots of money to the authors, I invite you to write a better article on another idea, worth of linking, that would bring you even more money.
* I sometimes have the feeling some Linux users never had module/driver (config) problems in Linux. I don't really understand why they think that using Linux must always imply that you should always be ready to dive into configs. This is not the case for normal Desktop Users. Developers somehow share the "configs passion"... There are some aspects in which people should just admit that Linux isn't YET ready for the normal user... BUT it's rapidly advancing (by having lots of standardization, for example)... [hmm.. seems I did comment a little]
* Oh.. I'm a Computer Science student.. that makes me a software developer... and I'm using ArchLinux... I shouldn't comment on this, should I? smile /me returns to my up-to-date ArchLinux one-time installation and continue working...

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#8 2005-03-02 20:32:12

cactus
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Re: The future: LINUX & WINDOWS

Why do people persist in perpetuating FUD? Linking to stupid articles only increases their page hits, thus increasing their ad revenues, thus prompting the people responsible to write more stupid articles, ad naseaum...
Don't feed the trolls.


"Be conservative in what you send; be liberal in what you accept." -- Postel's Law
"tacos" -- Cactus' Law
"t̥͍͎̪̪͗a̴̻̩͈͚ͨc̠o̩̙͈ͫͅs͙͎̙͊ ͔͇̫̜t͎̳̀a̜̞̗ͩc̗͍͚o̲̯̿s̖̣̤̙͌ ̖̜̈ț̰̫͓ạ̪͖̳c̲͎͕̰̯̃̈o͉ͅs̪ͪ ̜̻̖̜͕" -- -̖͚̫̙̓-̺̠͇ͤ̃ ̜̪̜ͯZ͔̗̭̞ͪA̝͈̙͖̩L͉̠̺͓G̙̞̦͖O̳̗͍

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#9 2005-03-02 20:52:17

Dusty
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From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
Registered: 2004-01-18
Posts: 5,986
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Re: The future: LINUX & WINDOWS

I'm starting to believe that all articles are stupid articles.  I used to think that since something was published, the author must know what they're talking about.

But now I know nobody can tell me nothin'. lol

Dusty

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#10 2005-03-02 21:06:00

sarah31
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From: Middle of Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 2,975
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Re: The future: LINUX & WINDOWS

Dusty wrote:

I'm starting to believe that all articles are stupid articles.  I used to think that since something was published, the author must know what they're talking about.

But now I know nobody can tell me nothin'. lol

Dusty

Rofl

Must be a cinical Canadian thing.  I would concur with your comment Dusty.


AKA uknowme

I am not your friend

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#11 2005-03-02 21:19:53

Gullible Jones
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Registered: 2004-12-29
Posts: 4,863

Re: The future: LINUX & WINDOWS

I can see Linspire getting more popular... It's already sold with a fair number of new machines, like my Powerspec. It may suck as far as Linux goes, and the whole "you must pay for package management" schtick is absolutely screwy (is it even freaking legal?!), but it probably beats Windows in terms of security.

(Then again, when you first boot up it shoves you into a freaking root environment, with X and KDE running, etc... When I first saw that it really freaked me out. :shock: That violates one of the main principles of security on UNIX-like operating systems...)

But to get on about Linspire... Yes, it's sucky for Linux, but it's more than $100 cheaper than Windows XP, and just as easy to use. And it comes already outfitted with KDE and a heck of a lot of other software.

Now of course, Linspire is a pretty crappy distro... But hopefully its use on cheap machines will lead to use of better GUI-based distros (SuSE, Mandrake, Fedora Core, whatever) on such machines.

As for more powerful machines, they'll probably end up with Windows Longhorn or whatever in the near future... But, given Longhorn's ridiculous DirectX-based interface, I can't help but wonder if it will kill itself off. Just image running Looking Glass as your default window manager, and on an NT-based operating system... :shock: I bet Longhorn will beat XP in the chugging department.

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#12 2005-03-02 21:59:52

cactus
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From: t͈̫̹ͨa͖͕͎̱͈ͨ͆ć̥̖̝o̫̫̼s͈̭̱̞͍̃!̰
Registered: 2004-05-25
Posts: 4,615
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Re: The future: LINUX & WINDOWS

As far as FogHorn goes, I wonder how MS is going to get people on the upgrade treadmill for that one. Corps are just NOW switching to 2K and XP, and only because NT was EOL'ed.
I just don't see LegHorn as being enough of a draw feature wise, to snag their largest market into another upgrade....
But I am no pundit..what the hell do I know about anything..

Note: This thread was meant to be in no way insultuous of FogHorn LegHorn, may his supreme chicken'ness forever rule.


"Be conservative in what you send; be liberal in what you accept." -- Postel's Law
"tacos" -- Cactus' Law
"t̥͍͎̪̪͗a̴̻̩͈͚ͨc̠o̩̙͈ͫͅs͙͎̙͊ ͔͇̫̜t͎̳̀a̜̞̗ͩc̗͍͚o̲̯̿s̖̣̤̙͌ ̖̜̈ț̰̫͓ạ̪͖̳c̲͎͕̰̯̃̈o͉ͅs̪ͪ ̜̻̖̜͕" -- -̖͚̫̙̓-̺̠͇ͤ̃ ̜̪̜ͯZ͔̗̭̞ͪA̝͈̙͖̩L͉̠̺͓G̙̞̦͖O̳̗͍

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#13 2005-03-03 02:33:46

sudman1
Member
From: Huntingdon, UK
Registered: 2005-02-18
Posts: 143

Re: The future: LINUX & WINDOWS

I have thought about this issue a lot recently.  I'm studying for a Linux certification right now, but I'm having second thoughts about the relevance.

When it comes down to it, OSS will not kill proprietary software.  It will help to influence and innovate. GNU/Linux is a great OS and has some of the best apps I've used, but the same ideals that move linux forward are going to hold it back.  For Example: the driver issue is always going to be a hard one to compensate for. Very few vendors who believe in keeping their drivers closed sourced are going to take the time to compile their drivers against all the different kernels out there.  Nvidia do well to support the Linux community, but how many resources do they have to employ to get the job done?  How many other, less profitable companies would be willing or could afford to do the same?

If Linux is about choice, it's important to remember that a good majority of people will choose not to use it.  All we can do is let them know that it's here - and that it's here to stay.


v/r
Suds

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#14 2005-03-03 03:48:51

cactus
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From: t͈̫̹ͨa͖͕͎̱͈ͨ͆ć̥̖̝o̫̫̼s͈̭̱̞͍̃!̰
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Posts: 4,615
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Re: The future: LINUX & WINDOWS

hardware vendors just need to release the hooks and syscall specs that drive their hardware. The opensource programmers will write the drivers for them. I mean, look at how well some of the drivers have been written for some of the graphics cards out there that have no specs released for them at all.
Imagine how good they could be if programmers were armed with the right information.....

As for the very thing making it move forward holding it back..?? I think you have had enough..kindly pass the pipe to the person on your left. puff puff pass..


"Be conservative in what you send; be liberal in what you accept." -- Postel's Law
"tacos" -- Cactus' Law
"t̥͍͎̪̪͗a̴̻̩͈͚ͨc̠o̩̙͈ͫͅs͙͎̙͊ ͔͇̫̜t͎̳̀a̜̞̗ͩc̗͍͚o̲̯̿s̖̣̤̙͌ ̖̜̈ț̰̫͓ạ̪͖̳c̲͎͕̰̯̃̈o͉ͅs̪ͪ ̜̻̖̜͕" -- -̖͚̫̙̓-̺̠͇ͤ̃ ̜̪̜ͯZ͔̗̭̞ͪA̝͈̙͖̩L͉̠̺͓G̙̞̦͖O̳̗͍

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#15 2005-03-03 04:19:04

T-Dawg
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From: Wilmington, NC
Registered: 2005-01-29
Posts: 2,734

Re: The future: LINUX & WINDOWS

cactus wrote:

I mean, look at how well some of the drivers have been written for some of the graphics cards out there that have no specs released for them at all.
Imagine how good they could be if programmers were armed with the right information.....

I've always been amazed by this...The linux community developers are ten-fold that of Microsoft. Its another reason linux security is better,  more programmers world wide to fix security holes. How long does it take to fix them in linux? A couple days, hours even, as for microsoft...........

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#16 2005-03-03 04:23:07

cactus
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From: t͈̫̹ͨa͖͕͎̱͈ͨ͆ć̥̖̝o̫̫̼s͈̭̱̞͍̃!̰
Registered: 2004-05-25
Posts: 4,615
Website

Re: The future: LINUX & WINDOWS

Well, admittedly microsoft has more issues to deal with for each fix they push out..
more testing needed due to corp costomers, backwards compatability issues, internal company bureaucracy...
Not making excuses for them per se...


"Be conservative in what you send; be liberal in what you accept." -- Postel's Law
"tacos" -- Cactus' Law
"t̥͍͎̪̪͗a̴̻̩͈͚ͨc̠o̩̙͈ͫͅs͙͎̙͊ ͔͇̫̜t͎̳̀a̜̞̗ͩc̗͍͚o̲̯̿s̖̣̤̙͌ ̖̜̈ț̰̫͓ạ̪͖̳c̲͎͕̰̯̃̈o͉ͅs̪ͪ ̜̻̖̜͕" -- -̖͚̫̙̓-̺̠͇ͤ̃ ̜̪̜ͯZ͔̗̭̞ͪA̝͈̙͖̩L͉̠̺͓G̙̞̦͖O̳̗͍

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#17 2005-03-03 04:26:47

T-Dawg
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From: Wilmington, NC
Registered: 2005-01-29
Posts: 2,734

Re: The future: LINUX & WINDOWS

...A valid point.

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#18 2005-03-03 04:32:31

sudman1
Member
From: Huntingdon, UK
Registered: 2005-02-18
Posts: 143

Re: The future: LINUX & WINDOWS

The same thing moving Linux forward and holding it back is the Open Source/Free Software community. No, not even the community, the Libre Zelots.

I do believe that linux has some of the best and brightest devs in the world on their side - and like Penguin said, things get fixed quicker and development is more rapid - but projects such as Debian not being open to non libre software hurts Linux as a whole.
There is a happy medium that I just don't feel Linux is going to obtain any time soon.


v/r
Suds

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#19 2005-03-03 04:41:36

sudman1
Member
From: Huntingdon, UK
Registered: 2005-02-18
Posts: 143

Re: The future: LINUX & WINDOWS

Also, I do conceed to Cactus that there are a hell-of-a-lot of great open source drivers out there.  However, I believe that a harware vendor has the right to keep their designs and even implementation of those designs (hooks etc...) confidential if they so choose. They may feel it gives them a competitve edge. Whether it does or not, they are allowed their own business practices. Linux doesn't acknowledge that right.


v/r
Suds

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#20 2005-03-03 04:59:58

skoal
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From: Frequent Flyer Underworld
Registered: 2004-03-23
Posts: 612
Website

Re: The future: LINUX & WINDOWS

Penguin wrote:

It seems Linux is growing fast nowdays. Where does everyone think Windows and Linux will stand in the near future?

Well, that's a hard one to call for sure.  In my estimation, Linux will reach it's peak in about a year or two.  Unless some of the big OS industry leaders really push for a viable desktop with related tools now considered mandatory by any "OS", like a compatible Word processor, multimedia player transparently integrated into the desktop and browser, plus a new underlying 3D graphics server/API on par with directx (or Longhorn's upcoming WGF) for games and desktop "candy", Linux will still barely muster an occasional "tail flick" from the Windows "Water Buffalo" as he swats about at Macintosh and Linux "flies".

When Longhorn 64 rolls around next year or soon thereafter, the push by Intel and AMD with their 64-bit chips will blanket the dry "landscape" with a cool night breeze, pretty much causing the "flies" to pick at eachother instead, or wait patiently as the next generation of "larvae" begin to hatch and resume "biting" again in a year or two thereafter.  They will always be "flies" though.  However, future Computer Science Archaelogists may indeed one day uncover a "missing link" between the "flies" and other "Water Buffalo" lineage.  They will probably name it "IBMasaurus HewlaPackarex"...

Without corporate backing, the Linux community will never "evolve" beyond a swarming series of amino acid chains afloat a giant pool of entropy "potential", needing a lightning strike or meteor shower to breathe real life into it...

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#21 2005-03-03 08:13:00

iphitus
Forum Fellow
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: 2004-10-09
Posts: 4,927

Re: The future: LINUX & WINDOWS

god not yet-another-lets-look-to-the-future-thread

instead of sitting about and saying oh linux will be awesome, do something, make a theme, submit a bug report, whatever. It's at least a better use of time than this

nothing new here...... move on...

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#22 2005-03-03 11:50:48

Gullible Jones
Member
Registered: 2004-12-29
Posts: 4,863

Re: The future: LINUX & WINDOWS

Good point, Iphitus...

(Hmmm... I've wanted to port the Edge icon theme to Firefox for a while. Now it's time to find out how...)

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#23 2005-03-03 11:56:44

iphitus
Forum Fellow
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: 2004-10-09
Posts: 4,927

Re: The future: LINUX & WINDOWS

and im going to continue work on one of my three unfinished pygtk programs......

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#24 2005-03-03 23:47:37

T-Dawg
Forum Fellow
From: Wilmington, NC
Registered: 2005-01-29
Posts: 2,734

Re: The future: LINUX & WINDOWS

iphitus wrote:

and im going to continue work on one of my three unfinished pygtk programs......

..thats nice. If you dont like this thread then don't read it.:evil: Some people are interested to here what others have to say about the matter.

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#25 2005-03-04 00:03:16

cactus
Taco Eater
From: t͈̫̹ͨa͖͕͎̱͈ͨ͆ć̥̖̝o̫̫̼s͈̭̱̞͍̃!̰
Registered: 2004-05-25
Posts: 4,615
Website

Re: The future: LINUX & WINDOWS

Penguin wrote:

..thats nice. If you dont like this thread then don't read it.:evil: Some people are interested to here what others have to say about the matter.

You mean: Interested in telling others what they think about the matter.


"Be conservative in what you send; be liberal in what you accept." -- Postel's Law
"tacos" -- Cactus' Law
"t̥͍͎̪̪͗a̴̻̩͈͚ͨc̠o̩̙͈ͫͅs͙͎̙͊ ͔͇̫̜t͎̳̀a̜̞̗ͩc̗͍͚o̲̯̿s̖̣̤̙͌ ̖̜̈ț̰̫͓ạ̪͖̳c̲͎͕̰̯̃̈o͉ͅs̪ͪ ̜̻̖̜͕" -- -̖͚̫̙̓-̺̠͇ͤ̃ ̜̪̜ͯZ͔̗̭̞ͪA̝͈̙͖̩L͉̠̺͓G̙̞̦͖O̳̗͍

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