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#1 2011-05-05 20:19:02

ohadbasan
Member
Registered: 2009-08-18
Posts: 30

choppy kde experience.

Hey friends.

I am running arch64+kde 4.6.2 on an acer aspire timeline (core 2 duo su9400+4gigs ram+intel 4500mhd)
the kde desktop runs incredible slow. it is not responsive and choppy. I noticed that when running glxgears I get about 10-18 FPS
super slow.
I'd like to mention that all the components (memory, cpu and hard drive) and not under heavy strain (i've verified it with "free" and with "top")
I'd appreciate your help.

thanks!

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#2 2011-05-06 10:04:18

einhard
Member
From: Poland
Registered: 2010-01-05
Posts: 89

Re: choppy kde experience.

Try turning off desktop effects or composition. Changing renderer to Xrender/OpenGL may also help. You can also try openbox instead of kwin to see if the problem still occurs. In this way you will know the source of this.

Last edited by einhard (2011-05-06 10:13:07)

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#3 2011-05-06 10:12:11

Lothium
Member
Registered: 2009-10-10
Posts: 192

Re: choppy kde experience.

Disable the blur effect. This could help.

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#4 2011-05-06 16:10:01

ohadbasan
Member
Registered: 2009-08-18
Posts: 30

Re: choppy kde experience.

Hey friends.

Thanks for the answer.
I have tried switching to Xrender from opengl.
it didn't solve the problem.
I believe that if I move to to openbox my desktop might respond faster.
but I prefer not too. my computer is not that slow and old to run kwin. my pc is powerful enough to run kde+kwin without any problem.
that's the weird part about it

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#5 2011-05-06 16:11:56

ohadbasan
Member
Registered: 2009-08-18
Posts: 30

Re: choppy kde experience.

Lothium wrote:

Disable the blur effect. This could help.

thanks dude but it was already disabled.

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#6 2011-05-06 18:19:37

KlavKalashj
Member
Registered: 2008-10-09
Posts: 376

Re: choppy kde experience.

You should not need to disable blur. I am running KDE on an Asus UL30a which have the exact same specs, and it's smooth as silk over here. Something is clearly wrong. Have you checked .xsession-errors? Are you fully up-to-date? Using [testing]? Using a xorg.conf? Try switching to raster engine. I don't remember how, but just google it. Also, it could help to disable nepomuk and strigi.

Edit: just remembered, blur does not work ootb with our gfx. See this thread: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=114754
You can enable it by adding "export KWIN_DIRECT_GL=1" to /etc/profile. For me, performance was also enhanced by disabling vsync after that (in systemsettings -> desktop effects).

Last edited by KlavKalashj (2011-05-06 18:25:08)

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#7 2011-05-06 18:47:58

einhard
Member
From: Poland
Registered: 2010-01-05
Posts: 89

Re: choppy kde experience.

Did you turn off desktop effects?
On my old laptop (T9400 GF9600mGT) without de I have 5,5k fps, with xrender 2,6k and with opengl 2,3k. You should have at least 60 with vsync on, to even think about smooth work in KDE.

Try adding

Section "Extensions"
    Option "Composite" "Disable"
EndSection

to a file in /etc/xorg.conf.d/ (i guess you have some with graphic settings but it doesn't really matter where you put it)

my computer is not that slow and old to run kwin. my pc is powerful enough to run kde+kwin without any problem

I know but installing openbox, selecting the "KDE/Openbox" login option in KDM and checking glxgears score (5 minutes, maybe less) will give you answer if it's your kwin configuration causing problem or is it something else (driver settings, etc.)

Last edited by einhard (2011-05-06 18:49:10)

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#8 2011-05-06 23:56:23

ohadbasan
Member
Registered: 2009-08-18
Posts: 30

Re: choppy kde experience.

KlavKalashj wrote:

You should not need to disable blur. I am running KDE on an Asus UL30a which have the exact same specs, and it's smooth as silk over here. Something is clearly wrong. Have you checked .xsession-errors? Are you fully up-to-date? Using [testing]? Using a xorg.conf? Try switching to raster engine. I don't remember how, but just google it. Also, it could help to disable nepomuk and strigi.

Edit: just remembered, blur does not work ootb with our gfx. See this thread: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=114754
You can enable it by adding "export KWIN_DIRECT_GL=1" to /etc/profile. For me, performance was also enhanced by disabling vsync after that (in systemsettings -> desktop effects).


thanks dude.
I have no .xession-errors in my home dir (I believe it means that i just don't have errors) I'm using the stable branch without xorg.conf.
regarding switching the raster engine, I can do it, I've seen how on the wiki. but it says specifically that switching the raster engine is supposed to be to poorly supported graphic card (unlike intel which has a good support)

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#9 2011-05-07 13:37:23

ohadbasan
Member
Registered: 2009-08-18
Posts: 30

Re: choppy kde experience.

einhard wrote:

Did you turn off desktop effects?
On my old laptop (T9400 GF9600mGT) without de I have 5,5k fps, with xrender 2,6k and with opengl 2,3k. You should have at least 60 with vsync on, to even think about smooth work in KDE.

Try adding

Section "Extensions"
    Option "Composite" "Disable"
EndSection

to a file in /etc/xorg.conf.d/ (i guess you have some with graphic settings but it doesn't really matter where you put it)

my computer is not that slow and old to run kwin. my pc is powerful enough to run kde+kwin without any problem

I know but installing openbox, selecting the "KDE/Openbox" login option in KDM and checking glxgears score (5 minutes, maybe less) will give you answer if it's your kwin configuration causing problem or is it something else (driver settings, etc.)

Hey dude.

Thank you for the reply. I've done as you instructed.
disabling compositing makes the situation even worse. from ~18fps the performance are now about 5-6fps
I've tried switching to kde/openbox. indeed the desktop feels more responsive but the graphic performance (glxgears) stay just the same at about 18fps.

thanks!

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#10 2011-05-07 13:55:29

einhard
Member
From: Poland
Registered: 2010-01-05
Posts: 89

Re: choppy kde experience.

ohadbasan wrote:

Hey dude.

Thank you for the reply. I've done as you instructed.
disabling compositing makes the situation even worse. from ~18fps the performance are now about 5-6fps
I've tried switching to kde/openbox. indeed the desktop feels more responsive but the graphic performance (glxgears) stay just the same at about 18fps.

thanks!

Something is really wrong. Decreased performance with disabled composition? Weird. There must be some problem with driver or xorg configuration.

Could you give output from lsmod and /etc/rc.conf and from files in  /etc/xorg.conf.d/ if you have made some changes there? Are there any erros in Xorg.0.log, errors.log in /var/log/ ?

Edit.
You can also try

export vblank_mode=0

in /etc/rc.local or /etc/profile like here https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=118423

Last edited by einhard (2011-05-08 16:30:59)

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#11 2011-05-10 00:46:30

ohadbasan
Member
Registered: 2009-08-18
Posts: 30

Re: choppy kde experience.

einhard wrote:
ohadbasan wrote:

Hey dude.

Thank you for the reply. I've done as you instructed.
disabling compositing makes the situation even worse. from ~18fps the performance are now about 5-6fps
I've tried switching to kde/openbox. indeed the desktop feels more responsive but the graphic performance (glxgears) stay just the same at about 18fps.

thanks!

Something is really wrong. Decreased performance with disabled composition? Weird. There must be some problem with driver or xorg configuration.

Could you give output from lsmod and /etc/rc.conf and from files in  /etc/xorg.conf.d/ if you have made some changes there? Are there any erros in Xorg.0.log, errors.log in /var/log/ ?

Edit.
You can also try

export vblank_mode=0

in /etc/rc.local or /etc/profile like here https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=118423

just a general question - what is the quickest way to attach a file to a forum?
meanwhile I'm going to copy-paste like a monkey smile

lsmod >

Module                  Size  Used by
fuse                   64542  3
cryptd                  7661  0
aes_x86_64              7436  1
aes_generic            26066  1 aes_x86_64
ipv6                  277189  30
snd_seq_dummy           1455  0
snd_seq_oss            28052  0
snd_seq_midi_event      5332  1 snd_seq_oss
snd_seq                48705  5 snd_seq_dummy,snd_seq_oss,snd_seq_midi_event
snd_seq_device          5100  3 snd_seq_dummy,snd_seq_oss,snd_seq
snd_pcm_oss            37890  0
snd_hda_codec_hdmi     22378  1
uvcvideo               60799  0
videodev               65175  1 uvcvideo
v4l2_compat_ioctl32     6716  1 videodev
snd_mixer_oss          14851  1 snd_pcm_oss
snd_hda_codec_realtek   294351  1
arc4                    1402  2
ecb                     2033  2
vboxdrv              1765266  0
iwlagn                385727  0
joydev                  9767  0
snd_hda_intel          21738  2
i915                  629213  2
iwlcore               103238  1 iwlagn
snd_hda_codec          73739  3 snd_hda_codec_hdmi,snd_hda_codec_realtek,snd_hda_intel
snd_hwdep               6134  1 snd_hda_codec
snd_pcm                71032  4 snd_pcm_oss,snd_hda_codec_hdmi,snd_hda_intel,snd_hda_codec
mac80211              202190  2 iwlagn,iwlcore
drm_kms_helper         26624  1 i915
uhci_hcd               21939  0
cfg80211              141484  3 iwlagn,iwlcore,mac80211
snd_timer              18992  2 snd_seq,snd_pcm
drm                   173492  3 i915,drm_kms_helper
sg                     24917  0
ehci_hcd               39177  0
snd                    55132  16 snd_seq_oss,snd_seq,snd_seq_device,snd_pcm_oss,snd_hda_codec_hdmi,snd_mixer_oss,snd_hda_codec_realtek,snd_hda_intel,snd_hda_codec,snd_hwdep,snd_pcm,snd_timer
soundcore               5986  1 snd
snd_page_alloc          7017  2 snd_hda_intel,snd_pcm
cpufreq_ondemand        8443  2
rfkill                 14810  1 cfg80211
i2c_algo_bit            5063  1 i915
i2c_i801                7987  0
iTCO_wdt               11053  0
evdev                   9178  8
usbcore               134859  4 uvcvideo,uhci_hcd,ehci_hcd
intel_agp              10480  1 i915
intel_gtt              13943  3 i915,intel_agp
psmouse                52944  0
i2c_core               18740  6 videodev,i915,drm_kms_helper,drm,i2c_algo_bit,i2c_i801
wmi                     8083  0
ac                      3193  0
battery                10545  0
pcspkr                  1843  0
serio_raw               4222  0
thermal                 7631  0
iTCO_vendor_support     1857  1 iTCO_wdt
video                  10996  1 i915
button                  4794  1 i915
atl1c                  31559  0
acpi_cpufreq            5697  0
freq_table              2379  2 cpufreq_ondemand,acpi_cpufreq
processor              23608  3 acpi_cpufreq
mperf                   1267  1 acpi_cpufreq
ext4                  332976  2
mbcache                 5649  1 ext4
jbd2                   69632  1 ext4
crc16                   1321  1 ext4
sd_mod                 26276  4
ahci                   20441  3
libahci                17966  1 ahci
libata                167726  2 ahci,libahci
scsi_mod              123282  3 sg,sd_mod,libata


rc.conf>

#
# /etc/rc.conf - Main Configuration for Arch Linux
#

# -----------------------------------------------------------------------
# LOCALIZATION
# -----------------------------------------------------------------------
#
# LOCALE: available languages can be listed with the 'locale -a' command
# DAEMON_LOCALE: Set the locale during daemon startup and during the boot
#   process. If set to 'no', the C locale will be used.
# HARDWARECLOCK: set to "UTC" or "localtime", any other value will result
#   in the hardware clock being left untouched (useful for virtualization)
#   Note: Using "localtime" is discouraged.
# TIMEZONE: timezones are found in /usr/share/zoneinfo
# KEYMAP: keymaps are found in /usr/share/kbd/keymaps
# CONSOLEFONT: found in /usr/share/kbd/consolefonts (only needed for non-US)
# CONSOLEMAP: found in /usr/share/kbd/consoletrans
# USECOLOR: use ANSI color sequences in startup messages
# VERBOSE: Verbose level (from 1 to 8). man 3 syslog for level info
#
LOCALE="en_US.UTF-8"
DAEMON_LOCALE="no"
HARDWARECLOCK="UTC"
TIMEZONE="Asia/Jerusalem"
KEYMAP="us"
CONSOLEFONT=
CONSOLEMAP=
USECOLOR="yes"
VERBOSE="3"

# -----------------------------------------------------------------------
# HARDWARE
# -----------------------------------------------------------------------
#
# MOD_AUTOLOAD: Allow autoloading of modules at boot and when needed
# MODULES: Modules to load at boot-up. Prefix with a ! to blacklist.
#
MOD_AUTOLOAD="yes"
MODULES=(acpi-cpufreq cpufreq_ondemand vboxdrv)

# Udev settle timeout (default to 30)
UDEV_TIMEOUT=30

# Scan for FakeRAID (dmraid) Volumes at startup
USEDMRAID="no"

# Scan for BTRFS volumes at startup
USEBTRFS="no"

# Scan for LVM volume groups at startup, required if you use LVM
USELVM="no"

# -----------------------------------------------------------------------
# NETWORKING
# -----------------------------------------------------------------------
#
# HOSTNAME: Hostname of machine. Should also be put in /etc/hosts
#
HOSTNAME="ohad-arch"

# Use 'ifconfig -a' or 'ls /sys/class/net/' to see all available interfaces.
#
# Interfaces to start at boot-up (in this order)
# Declare each interface then list in INTERFACES
#   - prefix an entry in INTERFACES with a ! to disable it
#   - no hyphens in your interface names - Bash doesn't like it
#
# DHCP:     Set your interface to "dhcp" (eth0="dhcp")
# Wireless: See network profiles below
#

#Static IP example
#eth0="eth0 192.168.0.2 netmask 255.255.255.0 broadcast 192.168.0.255"
eth0="dhcp"
INTERFACES=(eth0)
# Routes to start at boot-up (in this order)
# Declare each route then list in ROUTES
#   - prefix an entry in ROUTES with a ! to disable it
#
gateway="default gw 192.168.1.1"
ROUTES=(!gateway)

# Setting this to "yes" will skip network shutdown.
# This is required if your root device is on NFS.
NETWORK_PERSIST="no"

# Enable these network profiles at boot-up.  These are only useful
# if you happen to need multiple network configurations (ie, laptop users)
#   - set to 'menu' to present a menu during boot-up (dialog package required)
#   - prefix an entry with a ! to disable it
#
# Network profiles are found in /etc/network.d
#
# This now requires the netcfg package
#
#NETWORKS=(main)

# -----------------------------------------------------------------------
# DAEMONS
# -----------------------------------------------------------------------
#   
# Daemons to start at boot-up (in this order)
#   - prefix a daemon with a ! to disable it
#   - prefix a daemon with a @ to start it up in the background
#
# If something other takes care of your hardware clock (ntpd, dual-boot...)
# you should disable 'hwclock' here.
#
DAEMONS=(hwclock netfs crond dbus laptop-mode cups alsa networkmanager)


regarding xorg.conf.d
I haven't made any changes besides tweaking for a multitouch support. the problem of course started long before i did that tweak a week ago. nothing actually triggered the issue. it was there aways

thanks!

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#12 2011-05-10 00:51:42

ohadbasan
Member
Registered: 2009-08-18
Posts: 30

Re: choppy kde experience.

The little /etc/profile tweak doesn't affect my performance. the only difference is that now when running glxgears I'm getting:

ATTENTION: default value of option vblank_mode overridden by environment.
ATTENTION: default value of option vblank_mode overridden by environment.
ATTENTION: option value of option vblank_mode ignored.
disabling 3D rasterization
96 frames in 5.0 seconds = 19.086 FPS

the performance remain the same.
Xorg.0.log and errors.log in /var/log are clear from errors.

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#13 2011-05-10 09:36:10

einhard
Member
From: Poland
Registered: 2010-01-05
Posts: 89

Re: choppy kde experience.

Of course you don't have any meaningful logs, where is syslog-ng in daemons? What for are you using hwclock?

You don't use KDM to log in? How you start KDE?

Try
DAEMONS=(syslog-ng dbus @alsa @networkmanager @netfs @crond @cups @kdm @laptop-mode)
you can delete all @ but I think you will have faster boot this way (especially with networkmanager)

Delete everything in /var/log and check logs again after reboot (as root or add your user to log group with "sudo gpasswd -a user log")

Also you can change

eth0="dhcp"
INTERFACES=(eth0)

to

#eth0="dhcp"
INTERFACES=(!eth0,!wlan0)

Networkmanager have sometime issues with it

Last edited by einhard (2011-05-10 09:54:16)

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#14 2011-05-10 09:51:32

ohadbasan
Member
Registered: 2009-08-18
Posts: 30

Re: choppy kde experience.

Thanks for all the help.
I boot to command line and start the x server manually if I want to.
exec ck-launch-session startkde in .xinitrc

the errors.log file contains just the following

May 10 12:44:54 localhost NetworkManager[1339]: <error> [1305020694.327988] [nm-session-monitor.c:349] nm_session_monitor_init(): Error loading /var/run/ConsoleKit/database: Error statting file /var/run/ConsoleKit/database: No such file or directory
May 10 12:45:32 localhost pulseaudio[2255]: pid.c: Daemon already running.
May 10 12:45:32 localhost pulseaudio[2272]: pid.c: Daemon already running.
May 10 12:45:32 localhost pulseaudio[2280]: pid.c: Daemon already running.
May 10 12:45:33 localhost pulseaudio[2290]: pid.c: Daemon already running.
May 10 12:46:07 localhost kernel: [   83.557021] iwlagn 0000:01:00.0: Aggregation not enabled for tid 0 because load = 0

Xorg.0.log is clean from errors.

what's the deal about that daemon "hwclock"? I couldn't find some coherant information about it.
I'm a bit of a noob as you can see.

thanks

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#15 2011-05-10 10:09:56

einhard
Member
From: Poland
Registered: 2010-01-05
Posts: 89

Re: choppy kde experience.

ohadbasan wrote:

what's the deal about that daemon "hwclock"? I couldn't find some coherant information about it.
I'm a bit of a noob as you can see.

hwclock daemon adjusts your hardware clock. If you don't have any wishes to set it up in a strange way (drift, etc.), just setting UTC time to your hardware clock once will be enough, KDE will take care of the rest (timezone, etc.) and even synchronization if you change time in your system (hardware clock is synchronized with system clock on shutdown). So hwclok in rc.conf have probably no purpose for you.

If you want to know how to use BBcode in your posts read https://bbs.archlinux.org/help.php#bbcode

Could you also give output of

glxinfo | grep render

Last edited by einhard (2011-05-10 10:22:00)

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#16 2011-05-10 10:55:23

DarksideEE7
Member
From: Arkansas, United States
Registered: 2009-06-06
Posts: 356

Re: choppy kde experience.

Just wanted to add that I also have this chipset, so if you want me to check any settings I would be willing.  The 4500MHD graphics is definitely capable of running KDE/kwin with compositing without any lag.  I've been running it for almost 2 years now.

Also what sort of flash performance do you get?  I recently got my laptop back from RMA, so I installed Arch again.  I didn't remember 720P flash videos in youtube using such high CPU....it almost seems that GPU acceleration isn't working.

Occasionally I will get some lag only when I moved the mouse while watching a video in smplayer from an NFS share.  This isn't always reproducible though.

Last edited by DarksideEE7 (2011-05-10 10:58:29)

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#17 2011-05-11 21:02:15

ohadbasan
Member
Registered: 2009-08-18
Posts: 30

Re: choppy kde experience.

einhard wrote:
ohadbasan wrote:

what's the deal about that daemon "hwclock"? I couldn't find some coherant information about it.
I'm a bit of a noob as you can see.

hwclock daemon adjusts your hardware clock. If you don't have any wishes to set it up in a strange way (drift, etc.), just setting UTC time to your hardware clock once will be enough, KDE will take care of the rest (timezone, etc.) and even synchronization if you change time in your system (hardware clock is synchronized with system clock on shutdown). So hwclok in rc.conf have probably no purpose for you.

If you want to know how to use BBcode in your posts read https://bbs.archlinux.org/help.php#bbcode

Could you also give output of

glxinfo | grep render

that's the output

disabling 3D rasterization
direct rendering: Yes
OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI Mobile Intel® GM45 Express Chipset 


thanks smile

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#18 2011-05-11 21:05:08

ohadbasan
Member
Registered: 2009-08-18
Posts: 30

Re: choppy kde experience.

DarksideEE7 wrote:

Just wanted to add that I also have this chipset, so if you want me to check any settings I would be willing.  The 4500MHD graphics is definitely capable of running KDE/kwin with compositing without any lag.  I've been running it for almost 2 years now.

Also what sort of flash performance do you get?  I recently got my laptop back from RMA, so I installed Arch again.  I didn't remember 720P flash videos in youtube using such high CPU....it almost seems that GPU acceleration isn't working.

Occasionally I will get some lag only when I moved the mouse while watching a video in smplayer from an NFS share.  This isn't always reproducible though.

Flash isn't the strong site of linux generally
even on ubuntu the performance aren't great but it's working.
now there's  a message when I start kde it says something about kwin being too slow so compositing is being turned off automatically.
I have no doubt that this is a software issue not hardware. compiz on other distro runs silky smooth, my pc will play 1080p any day
I have absolutly no idea what's going on.
I installed my arch system by the book.
no special configuration

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#19 2011-05-12 00:06:09

DarksideEE7
Member
From: Arkansas, United States
Registered: 2009-06-06
Posts: 356

Re: choppy kde experience.

ohadbasan wrote:

Flash isn't the strong site of linux generally
even on ubuntu the performance aren't great but it's working.

Yes, flash is pretty much a joke on Linux.  Upon exiting full screen (either using esc or clicking on the OSD button) X will sometimes crash completely, bringing me back to tty1.  The crazy thing is that about a year ago I had very little problems with flash.  It seems that every release makes it gradually worse. 

My desktop has problems with full screen as well. 

I don't use a xorg.conf with my laptop and general KDE performance is great.  I'm not running testing at the moment, as there isn't a newer intel graphics package available right now.

I have opengl set as the renderer.  Some other settings that I changed from default:
blur disabled
cube desktop switching
cover switch
use vsync (doesn't really affect performance, but I want to prevent tearing)

That's all I can think of to be honest.  Direct rendering is also enabled by default on my setup.

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#20 2011-05-12 00:11:50

ohadbasan
Member
Registered: 2009-08-18
Posts: 30

Re: choppy kde experience.

DarksideEE7 wrote:
ohadbasan wrote:

Flash isn't the strong site of linux generally
even on ubuntu the performance aren't great but it's working.

Yes, flash is pretty much a joke on Linux.  Upon exiting full screen (either using esc or clicking on the OSD button) X will sometimes crash completely, bringing me back to tty1.  The crazy thing is that about a year ago I had very little problems with flash.  It seems that every release makes it gradually worse. 

My desktop has problems with full screen as well. 

I don't use a xorg.conf with my laptop and general KDE performance is great.  I'm not running testing at the moment, as there isn't a newer intel graphics package available right now.

I have opengl set as the renderer.  Some other settings that I changed from default:
blur disabled
cube desktop switching
cover switch
use vsync (doesn't really affect performance, but I want to prevent tearing)

That's all I can think of to be honest.  Direct rendering is also enabled by default on my setup.

if u get an X crash I'm almost certain you have a specific issue to your installation. flash had never crashed my x-server.
you should check Xorg.0.log after it crashes to verify what causes it.
I'd also try a different desktop enviroment. see if you can make flash crash X when using xfce for example.
flash is a joke when it comes to resource consumption but it's a working joke. it could crash your browser (which is also very very rare) but not X.
also, I wonder if that issue will happen to you on other distros other than arch.

Offline

#21 2011-05-12 00:56:27

DarksideEE7
Member
From: Arkansas, United States
Registered: 2009-06-06
Posts: 356

Re: choppy kde experience.

ohadbasan wrote:
DarksideEE7 wrote:
ohadbasan wrote:

Flash isn't the strong site of linux generally
even on ubuntu the performance aren't great but it's working.

Yes, flash is pretty much a joke on Linux.  Upon exiting full screen (either using esc or clicking on the OSD button) X will sometimes crash completely, bringing me back to tty1.  The crazy thing is that about a year ago I had very little problems with flash.  It seems that every release makes it gradually worse. 

My desktop has problems with full screen as well. 

I don't use a xorg.conf with my laptop and general KDE performance is great.  I'm not running testing at the moment, as there isn't a newer intel graphics package available right now.

I have opengl set as the renderer.  Some other settings that I changed from default:
blur disabled
cube desktop switching
cover switch
use vsync (doesn't really affect performance, but I want to prevent tearing)

That's all I can think of to be honest.  Direct rendering is also enabled by default on my setup.

if u get an X crash I'm almost certain you have a specific issue to your installation. flash had never crashed my x-server.
you should check Xorg.0.log after it crashes to verify what causes it.
I'd also try a different desktop enviroment. see if you can make flash crash X when using xfce for example.
flash is a joke when it comes to resource consumption but it's a working joke. it could crash your browser (which is also very very rare) but not X.
also, I wonder if that issue will happen to you on other distros other than arch.

I'll have a look next time it crashes.  This was going on before I returned my laptop for repair, and it has since happened on a fresh installation of Arch.  If I recall correctly it causes a seg fault in kwin after exiting full screen. 

I suppose I could try compiz in KDE instead of kwin.  I also have fluxbux installed, so I can try that.  I've never had it happen with huludesktop (also flash based), but then again I rarely use that on my laptop.

This only started somewhat recently (within the last 6 months or so).  In the past my laptop has been very stable.  I'm not sure what updates broke it, but I've tried the [multilib] flash package as well.  Right now I'm on the prerelease package from the AUR.



EDIT:

Yep, I tested in fluxbox and I couldn't get it to crash.  I went back to KDE and the first time I tried to exit a full screen 720P flash video, boom X crashes.  I get a seg faul signal 11 showing in Xorg.0.log.

Here is the last bit of the log after crash:

Backtrace:
[   512.190] 0: /usr/bin/X (xorg_backtrace+0x28) [0x49f598]
[   512.190] 1: /usr/bin/X (0x400000+0x603b9) [0x4603b9]
[   512.190] 2: /lib/libpthread.so.0 (0x7f03dac34000+0xf750) [0x7f03dac43750]
[   512.190] 3: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/dri/i965_dri.so (0x7f03d75b5000+0x83941) [0x7f03d7638941]
[   512.190] 4: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/dri/i965_dri.so (0x7f03d75b5000+0x6d436) [0x7f03d7622436]
[   512.191] 5: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/dri/i965_dri.so (0x7f03d75b5000+0x5ca14) [0x7f03d7611a14]
[   512.191] 6: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/dri/i965_dri.so (0x7f03d75b5000+0x142793) [0x7f03d76f7793]
[   512.191] 7: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/dri/i965_dri.so (0x7f03d75b5000+0x1405ec) [0x7f03d76f55ec]
[   512.191] 8: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/dri/i965_dri.so (0x7f03d75b5000+0x1407ca) [0x7f03d76f57ca]
[   512.191] 9: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/dri/i965_dri.so (0x7f03d75b5000+0x104e3b) [0x7f03d76b9e3b]
[   512.191] 10: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/libglx.so (0x7f03d8a3f000+0x3633c) [0x7f03d8a7533c]
[   512.191] 11: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/libglx.so (0x7f03d8a3f000+0x389f3) [0x7f03d8a779f3]
[   512.191] 12: /usr/bin/X (0x400000+0x2d341) [0x42d341]
[   512.191] 13: /usr/bin/X (0x400000+0x213ee) [0x4213ee]
[   512.191] 14: /lib/libc.so.6 (__libc_start_main+0xed) [0x7f03d9bbaf6d]
[   512.191] 15: /usr/bin/X (0x400000+0x20f99) [0x420f99]
[   512.191] Segmentation fault at address (nil)
[   512.191] 
Fatal server error:
[   512.191] Caught signal 11 (Segmentation fault). Server aborting
[   512.191] 
[   512.191] 
Please consult the The X.Org Foundation support 
     at http://wiki.x.org
 for help. 
[   512.192] Please also check the log file at "/var/log/Xorg.0.log" for additional information.
[   512.192] 
[   512.226] (II) Power Button: Close
[   512.226] (II) UnloadModule: "evdev"
[   512.226] (II) Unloading evdev
[   512.280] (II) Video Bus: Close
[   512.280] (II) UnloadModule: "evdev"
[   512.280] (II) Unloading evdev
[   512.323] (II) Sleep Button: Close
[   512.323] (II) UnloadModule: "evdev"
[   512.323] (II) Unloading evdev
[   512.376] (II) USB2.0 0.3M UVC WebCam: Close
[   512.377] (II) UnloadModule: "evdev"
[   512.377] (II) Unloading evdev
[   512.440] (II) Asus Laptop extra buttons: Close
[   512.440] (II) UnloadModule: "evdev"
[   512.440] (II) Unloading evdev
[   512.493] (II) AT Translated Set 2 keyboard: Close
[   512.493] (II) UnloadModule: "evdev"
[   512.493] (II) Unloading evdev
[   512.627] (II) UnloadModule: "synaptics"
[   512.627] (II) Unloading synaptics
[   512.628] (II) AIGLX: Suspending AIGLX clients for VT switch
[   512.743] 
FatalError re-entered, aborting
[   512.763] xf86CloseConsole: VT_WAITACTIVE failed: Interrupted system call
[   512.783] 

Last edited by DarksideEE7 (2011-05-12 04:18:10)

Offline

#22 2011-05-12 10:11:26

ohadbasan
Member
Registered: 2009-08-18
Posts: 30

Re: choppy kde experience.

DarksideEE7 wrote:
ohadbasan wrote:
DarksideEE7 wrote:

Yes, flash is pretty much a joke on Linux.  Upon exiting full screen (either using esc or clicking on the OSD button) X will sometimes crash completely, bringing me back to tty1.  The crazy thing is that about a year ago I had very little problems with flash.  It seems that every release makes it gradually worse. 

My desktop has problems with full screen as well. 

I don't use a xorg.conf with my laptop and general KDE performance is great.  I'm not running testing at the moment, as there isn't a newer intel graphics package available right now.

I have opengl set as the renderer.  Some other settings that I changed from default:
blur disabled
cube desktop switching
cover switch
use vsync (doesn't really affect performance, but I want to prevent tearing)

That's all I can think of to be honest.  Direct rendering is also enabled by default on my setup.

if u get an X crash I'm almost certain you have a specific issue to your installation. flash had never crashed my x-server.
you should check Xorg.0.log after it crashes to verify what causes it.
I'd also try a different desktop enviroment. see if you can make flash crash X when using xfce for example.
flash is a joke when it comes to resource consumption but it's a working joke. it could crash your browser (which is also very very rare) but not X.
also, I wonder if that issue will happen to you on other distros other than arch.

I'll have a look next time it crashes.  This was going on before I returned my laptop for repair, and it has since happened on a fresh installation of Arch.  If I recall correctly it causes a seg fault in kwin after exiting full screen. 

I suppose I could try compiz in KDE instead of kwin.  I also have fluxbux installed, so I can try that.  I've never had it happen with huludesktop (also flash based), but then again I rarely use that on my laptop.

This only started somewhat recently (within the last 6 months or so).  In the past my laptop has been very stable.  I'm not sure what updates broke it, but I've tried the [multilib] flash package as well.  Right now I'm on the prerelease package from the AUR.



EDIT:

Yep, I tested in fluxbox and I couldn't get it to crash.  I went back to KDE and the first time I tried to exit a full screen 720P flash video, boom X crashes.  I get a seg faul signal 11 showing in Xorg.0.log.

Here is the last bit of the log after crash:

Backtrace:
[   512.190] 0: /usr/bin/X (xorg_backtrace+0x28) [0x49f598]
[   512.190] 1: /usr/bin/X (0x400000+0x603b9) [0x4603b9]
[   512.190] 2: /lib/libpthread.so.0 (0x7f03dac34000+0xf750) [0x7f03dac43750]
[   512.190] 3: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/dri/i965_dri.so (0x7f03d75b5000+0x83941) [0x7f03d7638941]
[   512.190] 4: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/dri/i965_dri.so (0x7f03d75b5000+0x6d436) [0x7f03d7622436]
[   512.191] 5: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/dri/i965_dri.so (0x7f03d75b5000+0x5ca14) [0x7f03d7611a14]
[   512.191] 6: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/dri/i965_dri.so (0x7f03d75b5000+0x142793) [0x7f03d76f7793]
[   512.191] 7: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/dri/i965_dri.so (0x7f03d75b5000+0x1405ec) [0x7f03d76f55ec]
[   512.191] 8: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/dri/i965_dri.so (0x7f03d75b5000+0x1407ca) [0x7f03d76f57ca]
[   512.191] 9: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/dri/i965_dri.so (0x7f03d75b5000+0x104e3b) [0x7f03d76b9e3b]
[   512.191] 10: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/libglx.so (0x7f03d8a3f000+0x3633c) [0x7f03d8a7533c]
[   512.191] 11: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/libglx.so (0x7f03d8a3f000+0x389f3) [0x7f03d8a779f3]
[   512.191] 12: /usr/bin/X (0x400000+0x2d341) [0x42d341]
[   512.191] 13: /usr/bin/X (0x400000+0x213ee) [0x4213ee]
[   512.191] 14: /lib/libc.so.6 (__libc_start_main+0xed) [0x7f03d9bbaf6d]
[   512.191] 15: /usr/bin/X (0x400000+0x20f99) [0x420f99]
[   512.191] Segmentation fault at address (nil)
[   512.191] 
Fatal server error:
[   512.191] Caught signal 11 (Segmentation fault). Server aborting
[   512.191] 
[   512.191] 
Please consult the The X.Org Foundation support 
     at http://wiki.x.org
 for help. 
[   512.192] Please also check the log file at "/var/log/Xorg.0.log" for additional information.
[   512.192] 
[   512.226] (II) Power Button: Close
[   512.226] (II) UnloadModule: "evdev"
[   512.226] (II) Unloading evdev
[   512.280] (II) Video Bus: Close
[   512.280] (II) UnloadModule: "evdev"
[   512.280] (II) Unloading evdev
[   512.323] (II) Sleep Button: Close
[   512.323] (II) UnloadModule: "evdev"
[   512.323] (II) Unloading evdev
[   512.376] (II) USB2.0 0.3M UVC WebCam: Close
[   512.377] (II) UnloadModule: "evdev"
[   512.377] (II) Unloading evdev
[   512.440] (II) Asus Laptop extra buttons: Close
[   512.440] (II) UnloadModule: "evdev"
[   512.440] (II) Unloading evdev
[   512.493] (II) AT Translated Set 2 keyboard: Close
[   512.493] (II) UnloadModule: "evdev"
[   512.493] (II) Unloading evdev
[   512.627] (II) UnloadModule: "synaptics"
[   512.627] (II) Unloading synaptics
[   512.628] (II) AIGLX: Suspending AIGLX clients for VT switch
[   512.743] 
FatalError re-entered, aborting
[   512.763] xf86CloseConsole: VT_WAITACTIVE failed: Interrupted system call
[   512.783] 

I can't give you a solution for this problem since I just don't know.
but now that u got error messages, you can reproduce the issue and u know it's kwin/kde related you can consult the professionals here in arch forums/kde forums

Offline

#23 2011-05-13 00:40:32

DarksideEE7
Member
From: Arkansas, United States
Registered: 2009-06-06
Posts: 356

Re: choppy kde experience.

ohadbasan wrote:
DarksideEE7 wrote:
ohadbasan wrote:

if u get an X crash I'm almost certain you have a specific issue to your installation. flash had never crashed my x-server.
you should check Xorg.0.log after it crashes to verify what causes it.
I'd also try a different desktop enviroment. see if you can make flash crash X when using xfce for example.
flash is a joke when it comes to resource consumption but it's a working joke. it could crash your browser (which is also very very rare) but not X.
also, I wonder if that issue will happen to you on other distros other than arch.

I'll have a look next time it crashes.  This was going on before I returned my laptop for repair, and it has since happened on a fresh installation of Arch.  If I recall correctly it causes a seg fault in kwin after exiting full screen. 

I suppose I could try compiz in KDE instead of kwin.  I also have fluxbux installed, so I can try that.  I've never had it happen with huludesktop (also flash based), but then again I rarely use that on my laptop.

This only started somewhat recently (within the last 6 months or so).  In the past my laptop has been very stable.  I'm not sure what updates broke it, but I've tried the [multilib] flash package as well.  Right now I'm on the prerelease package from the AUR.



EDIT:

Yep, I tested in fluxbox and I couldn't get it to crash.  I went back to KDE and the first time I tried to exit a full screen 720P flash video, boom X crashes.  I get a seg faul signal 11 showing in Xorg.0.log.

Here is the last bit of the log after crash:

Backtrace:
[   512.190] 0: /usr/bin/X (xorg_backtrace+0x28) [0x49f598]
[   512.190] 1: /usr/bin/X (0x400000+0x603b9) [0x4603b9]
[   512.190] 2: /lib/libpthread.so.0 (0x7f03dac34000+0xf750) [0x7f03dac43750]
[   512.190] 3: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/dri/i965_dri.so (0x7f03d75b5000+0x83941) [0x7f03d7638941]
[   512.190] 4: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/dri/i965_dri.so (0x7f03d75b5000+0x6d436) [0x7f03d7622436]
[   512.191] 5: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/dri/i965_dri.so (0x7f03d75b5000+0x5ca14) [0x7f03d7611a14]
[   512.191] 6: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/dri/i965_dri.so (0x7f03d75b5000+0x142793) [0x7f03d76f7793]
[   512.191] 7: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/dri/i965_dri.so (0x7f03d75b5000+0x1405ec) [0x7f03d76f55ec]
[   512.191] 8: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/dri/i965_dri.so (0x7f03d75b5000+0x1407ca) [0x7f03d76f57ca]
[   512.191] 9: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/dri/i965_dri.so (0x7f03d75b5000+0x104e3b) [0x7f03d76b9e3b]
[   512.191] 10: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/libglx.so (0x7f03d8a3f000+0x3633c) [0x7f03d8a7533c]
[   512.191] 11: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/libglx.so (0x7f03d8a3f000+0x389f3) [0x7f03d8a779f3]
[   512.191] 12: /usr/bin/X (0x400000+0x2d341) [0x42d341]
[   512.191] 13: /usr/bin/X (0x400000+0x213ee) [0x4213ee]
[   512.191] 14: /lib/libc.so.6 (__libc_start_main+0xed) [0x7f03d9bbaf6d]
[   512.191] 15: /usr/bin/X (0x400000+0x20f99) [0x420f99]
[   512.191] Segmentation fault at address (nil)
[   512.191] 
Fatal server error:
[   512.191] Caught signal 11 (Segmentation fault). Server aborting
[   512.191] 
[   512.191] 
Please consult the The X.Org Foundation support 
     at http://wiki.x.org
 for help. 
[   512.192] Please also check the log file at "/var/log/Xorg.0.log" for additional information.
[   512.192] 
[   512.226] (II) Power Button: Close
[   512.226] (II) UnloadModule: "evdev"
[   512.226] (II) Unloading evdev
[   512.280] (II) Video Bus: Close
[   512.280] (II) UnloadModule: "evdev"
[   512.280] (II) Unloading evdev
[   512.323] (II) Sleep Button: Close
[   512.323] (II) UnloadModule: "evdev"
[   512.323] (II) Unloading evdev
[   512.376] (II) USB2.0 0.3M UVC WebCam: Close
[   512.377] (II) UnloadModule: "evdev"
[   512.377] (II) Unloading evdev
[   512.440] (II) Asus Laptop extra buttons: Close
[   512.440] (II) UnloadModule: "evdev"
[   512.440] (II) Unloading evdev
[   512.493] (II) AT Translated Set 2 keyboard: Close
[   512.493] (II) UnloadModule: "evdev"
[   512.493] (II) Unloading evdev
[   512.627] (II) UnloadModule: "synaptics"
[   512.627] (II) Unloading synaptics
[   512.628] (II) AIGLX: Suspending AIGLX clients for VT switch
[   512.743] 
FatalError re-entered, aborting
[   512.763] xf86CloseConsole: VT_WAITACTIVE failed: Interrupted system call
[   512.783] 

I can't give you a solution for this problem since I just don't know.
but now that u got error messages, you can reproduce the issue and u know it's kwin/kde related you can consult the professionals here in arch forums/kde forums

I created a thread under desktop environments.  Thanks for the input.

Offline

#24 2011-05-13 01:21:17

pacifico
Member
Registered: 2011-05-12
Posts: 5

Re: choppy kde experience.

I'm a newbie but traying to solve my problem with nvidia nouveau open source driver I was reading some  troubleshooting nouveau wiki, and then it says the following:

all OpenGL is software rendered, hence slow. If your desktop environment, e.g. KDE4, is using OpenGL to render the window and the desktop, it will be terribly slow. KDE4 can be configured to use Xrender instead of OpenGL.

That could be a point to consider.




Regards


Acer 4520 Laptop - Arch Linux - XFCE4

Offline

#25 2011-05-13 12:41:59

einhard
Member
From: Poland
Registered: 2010-01-05
Posts: 89

Re: choppy kde experience.

ohadbasan

Create file in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ (for example 20-intel.conf) or add this to other existing config file there

Section "Device"
        Identifier      "Device"
        Driver          "intel"
        Option          "AccelMethod"   "uxa"
        Option          "Tiling"        "true"
        Option          "Dri"           "true"
EndSection

And with this paste xorg log.

If this won't work just play with this options (true->false, uxa->EXA). You can also add

...
Option        "MigrationHeuristic"      "greedy"
...

or

...
Option        "SwapbuffersWait"        "False"
...

but only if everything else fails. Delete/add export vblank_mode=0 to /etc/profile or  /etc/rc.local. You have many combinations, try them. If your X breaks just remove/change some of this options.

This issue is 100% software/config fault.

If you paste something (log, etc.), do it in code bracket

As a last resort you can install newer version of intel driver from aur (xf86-video-intel-git) http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=18678

Somebody with properly working intel graphics could give output for  "glxinfo | grep render"?

pacifico wrote:

all OpenGL is software rendered, hence slow. If your desktop environment, e.g. KDE4, is using OpenGL to render the window and the desktop, it will be terribly slow. KDE4 can be configured to use Xrender instead of OpenGL.

Not true and he already tried Xrender in KDE. Source for this? Kwin OpenGL engine is messy but it's not software rendering.

Referring to previous conversation, flash can crash X like almost every software with indirect/direct access to hardware, can also cause kernel panic.

Last edited by einhard (2011-05-13 13:16:45)

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