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#26 2011-08-02 14:49:43

NoxSec
Member
Registered: 2011-07-13
Posts: 38

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

Barrucadu wrote:

I like how Arch is apparently difficult to install - I'm sure even a monkey could follow the beginner's guide.

A lot of ubuntu users do not even know what the terminal is, so it is probably hard for them.

Last edited by NoxSec (2011-08-02 14:50:01)

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#27 2011-08-02 19:23:11

Cyrusm
Member
From: Bozeman, MT
Registered: 2007-11-15
Posts: 1,052

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

NoxSec wrote:
Barrucadu wrote:

I like how Arch is apparently difficult to install - I'm sure even a monkey could follow the beginner's guide.

A lot of ubuntu users do not even know what the terminal is, so it is probably hard for them.

no, they know that it's that thing that you blindly copy-and-paste stuff from forums into smile 

at least that was how I was as an Ubuntu user....


Hofstadter's Law:
           It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.

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#28 2011-08-03 00:39:51

skottish
Forum Fellow
From: Here
Registered: 2006-06-16
Posts: 7,931

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

fukawi2 wrote:
.:B:. wrote:

At least that guy is honest... tongue

True tongue

C'mon guys, "copying and pasting to a terminal". That's good stuff.

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#29 2011-08-03 07:47:09

ninjaaron
Member
Registered: 2010-12-10
Posts: 289

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

I've finally arrived to give you all a very stern talking-to.  First of all, I never said installing arch was particularly difficult, I said it was a learning experience.  Secondly, I was installing it on a netbook without an ethernet port, so I had to configure the wifi manually from the console, something I've never had the opportunity to do on Ubuntu .  Finally, there were error messages that weren't in the guide (though they happily managed to appear elsewhere in the wiki).  I was all like:

#  ip link set wlan0 up
# iwconfig wlan0 essid "House" key "**********"
# dhcpcd wlan0

and arch was like:

blah blah blah...
dhcpcd timed out

So I was like

# iwconf wlan0

and arch was like

blah blah blah
Access Point:  None
blah blah blah

and I was like

wtf!?
# iwconfig wlan0 essid "House" key "**********"
# iwconfig wlan0

and then I had my access point, so I was like

# dhcpcd wlan0

and arch was like

blah blah blah
dhcpcd timed out

so I was like

eff no you just didn't!

and I tried a few more times and rebooted and whatever, and then I decided to search on the wiki farther than the beginners guide, and the wiki was like

try this asshole:

iwconfig wlan0 channel auto

So I told it to arch.
And it worked.  And then I had a crappy connection while I was trying to get the packages.  It sucked... and then I accidently erased some essential config file while I was trying to install a DE, and they didn't come back when I removed and reinstalled the packages, so I wiped the whole system and installed it again, only this time I had already done it once... and there were bootloader issues and stuff, only I'm a pro at bootloaders by now from jacking them up so many times in the past... and all this without bothering ya'll on the forum.

ANYWAY...  I've used the terminal on Ubuntu, and, with no real background in programming, I managed to cobble together a bunch of programs with about 20 bash inter-linked scripts to create a convertible UI for my netvertible, and now I working on a cli wizard for locating, connecting to, and automatically generating profiles for wifi networks.  I was originally just going to install networkmanager, but I noticed the default CLI tools seemed to provide more robust connections, and I also noticed that installing networkmanager involved a lot of bloaty stuff, but I didn't want to have eff around with everything manually everytime I needed to connect to a new router (which is pretty often on a netbook),  so... scripts...  given, I'm probably spending more time on the scripts than I ever would  manually configuering connections, but at least I get to learn some more bash while I'm at it. I just figured out how to use the delimiter with "cut."  It's wonderful.

All that is to say that I have used the terminal.

P.S.  I really like this "bleeding edge" stuff.  All the pacages are so new, and there are always newer ones coming in. That's why I'm always playing with development releases of Ubuntu... except now it's in a stable environment.  New is nice.

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#30 2011-08-03 08:19:22

Inxsible
Forum Fellow
From: Chicago
Registered: 2008-06-09
Posts: 9,073

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

^^ big_smile


Forum Rules

There's no such thing as a stupid question, but there sure are a lot of inquisitive idiots !

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#31 2011-08-03 08:49:40

ngoonee
Forum Fellow
From: Between Thailand and Singapore
Registered: 2009-03-17
Posts: 6,838

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

ninjaaron wrote:

<huge snip>

ANYWAY...  I've used the terminal on Ubuntu, and, with no real background in programming, I managed to cobble together a bunch of programs with about 20 bash inter-linked scripts to create a convertible UI for my netvertible, and now I working on a cli wizard for locating, connecting to, and automatically generating profiles for wifi networks.  I was originally just going to install networkmanager, but I noticed the default CLI tools seemed to provide more robust connections, and I also noticed that installing networkmanager involved a lot of bloaty stuff, but I didn't want to have eff around with everything manually everytime I needed to connect to a new router (which is pretty often on a netbook),  so... scripts...  given, I'm probably spending more time on the scripts than I ever would  manually configuering connections, but at least I get to learn some more bash while I'm at it. I just figured out how to use the delimiter with "cut."  It's wonderful.

<snip>

Hint: Always search to see if its done before.
Hint #2: wifi-select


Allan-Volunteer on the (topic being discussed) mailn lists. You never get the people who matters attention on the forums.
jasonwryan-Installing Arch is a measure of your literacy. Maintaining Arch is a measure of your diligence. Contributing to Arch is a measure of your competence.
Griemak-Bleeding edge, not bleeding flat. Edge denotes falls will occur from time to time. Bring your own parachute.

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#32 2011-08-03 09:20:40

venky80
Member
Registered: 2007-05-13
Posts: 996

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

Getting wireless to work is a bitch after new install. Especially if you have wpa connection and no terminal skills


DELL XPS 1640 with ATI Mobility Radeon  HD 3670. Arch Linux KDE Minimal Install

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#33 2011-08-03 12:35:21

ninjaaron
Member
Registered: 2010-12-10
Posts: 289

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

ngoonee wrote:
ninjaaron wrote:

<huge snip>

ANYWAY...  I've used the terminal on Ubuntu, and, with no real background in programming, I managed to cobble together a bunch of programs with about 20 bash inter-linked scripts to create a convertible UI for my netvertible, and now I working on a cli wizard for locating, connecting to, and automatically generating profiles for wifi networks.  I was originally just going to install networkmanager, but I noticed the default CLI tools seemed to provide more robust connections, and I also noticed that installing networkmanager involved a lot of bloaty stuff, but I didn't want to have eff around with everything manually everytime I needed to connect to a new router (which is pretty often on a netbook),  so... scripts...  given, I'm probably spending more time on the scripts than I ever would  manually configuering connections, but at least I get to learn some more bash while I'm at it. I just figured out how to use the delimiter with "cut."  It's wonderful.

<snip>

Hint: Always search to see if its done before.
Hint #2: wifi-select

don't ruin my fun mad


edit: I guess I can give it up, but only after I figure out how to get it to differentiate between wep and wpa.  I've already got it finding the networks and connecting.  I never thought about having it go through netcfg for networks that already have profiles... shouldn't be too hard, but it sort of changes how the overall system works...  mine uses iwconfig and dhcpcd...  this way everything would go through netcfg...  hmmm...  His way is better sad

Last edited by ninjaaron (2011-08-03 13:01:24)

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#34 2011-08-03 12:39:34

fukawi2
Forum Moderator
From: .vic.au
Registered: 2007-09-28
Posts: 5,296
Website

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

ninjaaron wrote:

P.S.  I really like this "bleeding edge" stuff.  All the pacages are so new, and there are always newer ones coming in. That's why I'm always playing with development releases of Ubuntu... except now it's in a stable environment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tw7Vp7L4-JI#t=3m10s

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#35 2011-08-04 02:18:35

Borosai
Member
From: Sandy Appendix, U.S.A.
Registered: 2006-06-15
Posts: 227

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

I gotta say post #29 was entertaining. In a good way.

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#36 2011-08-04 02:22:16

dhave
Arch Linux f@h Team Member
From: Outside the matrix.
Registered: 2005-05-15
Posts: 1,110

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

Borosai wrote:

I gotta say post #29 was entertaining. In a good way.

+1


Donate to Arch!

Tired? There's a nap for that. --anonymous

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#37 2011-08-04 07:25:12

cactus
Taco Eater
From: t͈̫̹ͨa͖͕͎̱͈ͨ͆ć̥̖̝o̫̫̼s͈̭̱̞͍̃!̰
Registered: 2004-05-25
Posts: 4,615
Website

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

litemotiv wrote:

Otaku! Eh, Archtaku.... hmm...taco...

tacos?


"Be conservative in what you send; be liberal in what you accept." -- Postel's Law
"tacos" -- Cactus' Law
"t̥͍͎̪̪͗a̴̻̩͈͚ͨc̠o̩̙͈ͫͅs͙͎̙͊ ͔͇̫̜t͎̳̀a̜̞̗ͩc̗͍͚o̲̯̿s̖̣̤̙͌ ̖̜̈ț̰̫͓ạ̪͖̳c̲͎͕̰̯̃̈o͉ͅs̪ͪ ̜̻̖̜͕" -- -̖͚̫̙̓-̺̠͇ͤ̃ ̜̪̜ͯZ͔̗̭̞ͪA̝͈̙͖̩L͉̠̺͓G̙̞̦͖O̳̗͍

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#38 2011-08-04 09:54:21

maddog39
Member
From: Philadelphia, PA
Registered: 2007-06-03
Posts: 72
Website

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

Doesn't anyone know how to use networkmanager, its so much easier... -_- Anyone who complains about setting up networking has no excuse!

Last edited by maddog39 (2011-08-04 09:55:05)

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#39 2011-08-04 10:55:41

.:B:.
Forum Fellow
Registered: 2006-11-26
Posts: 5,819

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

Netcfg is way easier to get up and running than networkmanager... You pretty much need the wiki to set up networkmanager correctly. I'm not talking about actually setting up your wireless, I'm talking about getting networkmanager into a usable state, especially if you're running something else than KDE/Gnome.

Last edited by .:B:. (2011-08-04 10:58:00)


Got Leenucks? :: Arch: Power in simplicity :: Get Counted! Registered Linux User #392717 :: Blog thingy

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#40 2011-08-04 12:33:36

Awebb
Member
Registered: 2010-05-06
Posts: 4,437

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

Arch can't be complicated. We have about 10 times more active users here than my estimated number of intelligent people on this planet would allow. I also doubt that every intelligent person on this planet is registered here, so that narrows it down a bit more. I hereby claim to have proven that >90% of all Arch users are not intelligent (and I won't listen if you try to state otherwise, lalalalalala). As a result, ignoring all sense and logic, I hereby also claim that everyone capable of installing Ubuntu is capable of installing Arch. It is a mere question of personality and discipline, one must accept the fact, that he is an idiot and that there is no significance in his choice of distribution.

Ubuntu is important. Since MS and Apple became boring, we needed something that basically does everything right, but in way that makes it hard to be accepted by the established user base. Ubuntu is the common enemy of all the tribes of Linux. It is a media-devouring predator that attacks the bases of our beliefs. It shows us, how impure our beliefs are. It makes us stop for a moment, look into the mirror and question ourselves. Has Linux become something dirty?

"When nothing is wrong with Ubuntu, then what is wrong with Ubuntu?", asked the Archer.
And the Master said: "Mu."
And the Archer was enlightened.

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#41 2011-08-04 12:44:03

bendersteed
Member
From: Greece
Registered: 2010-10-18
Posts: 85

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

Awebb wrote:

"When nothing is wrong with Ubuntu, then what is wrong with Ubuntu?", asked the Archer.
And the Master said: "Mu."
And the Archer was enlightened.

"Ubuntu, as well Arch, have the nature of karmic delusions."


Petite veille d'ivresse, sainte ! quand ce ne serait que pour le masque dont tu as gratifié. Nous t'affirmons, méthode ! Nous n'oublions pas que tu as glorifié hier chacun de nos âges. Nous avons foi au poison. Nous savons donner notre vie tout entière tous les jours.

Voici le temps des Assassins.

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#42 2011-08-04 13:02:16

lukaszan
Member
Registered: 2011-05-05
Posts: 117

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

dhave wrote:

In defense of Ubuntu, its designers and devs have done a pretty good job of accommodating users who want an easy experience with Linux. For a long time U. has been the distro I've recommended to Windows or Mac users who either have an idle interest in Linux or who otherwise wouldn't want to mount the learning curve of a hands-on distro like Arch.

I didn't spot anyone attacking Ubuntu ?!

Ubuntu is fantastic. I don't use it anymore, but if it wasn't for Ubuntu, who knows, maybe I'd still be looking at the world through the windows (haha, see what I did there ?).

Misfit138 wrote:

Sadly, I found a bit of hostility toward our distribution-of-choice on that other forum when I was active there.

It makes me appreciate this forum and its strict policy against distro-bashing and trolling.

People always seem to think 'their' distro is the best. Even here, I pointed out some Arch weaknesses once and almost got lynched.


I think the best thing about linux is what someone here said, you have Ubuntu, you have Gentoo, and then everything inbetween. Freedom of choice!

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#43 2011-08-04 14:42:44

ANOKNUSA
Member
Registered: 2010-10-22
Posts: 2,141

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

There are two big reasons I left Ubuntu more than a year ago:

- Philosophical differences and disagreements over practices, which are highly subjective matters of personal choice;
- I switched from GNOME to KDE, which basically meant that when I needed help with anything I was going to have to figure it out myself, since the attitude of most on the Ubuntu forums is that KDE sucks because it isn't identical to GNOME.  Regardless of how you feel about the distro, it must be admitted that the forums there are one big cluster; Google searches frequently bring up forum threads from years ago with no replies, and trolling and aimless argument are way too common.

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#44 2011-08-04 14:47:28

dhave
Arch Linux f@h Team Member
From: Outside the matrix.
Registered: 2005-05-15
Posts: 1,110

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

lukaszan wrote:
dhave wrote:

In defense of Ubuntu, its designers and devs have done a pretty good job of accommodating users who want an easy experience with Linux. For a long time U. has been the distro I've recommended to Windows or Mac users who either have an idle interest in Linux or who otherwise wouldn't want to mount the learning curve of a hands-on distro like Arch.

I didn't spot anyone attacking Ubuntu ?!

I can read people's minds. :-]

Last edited by dhave (2011-08-04 15:17:47)


Donate to Arch!

Tired? There's a nap for that. --anonymous

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#45 2011-08-04 14:49:57

Inxsible
Forum Fellow
From: Chicago
Registered: 2008-06-09
Posts: 9,073

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

ANOKNUSA wrote:

I switched from GNOME to KDE, which basically meant that when I needed help with anything I was going to have to figure it out myself, since the attitude of most on the Ubuntu forums is that KDE sucks because it isn't identical to GNOME.

Really? When I was over on ubuntu forums, I would see quite a lot of threads with [kubuntu] and help was quite forthcoming. They had this "Select flavor" thingy when creating threads and you could choose ubuntu/kubuntu/xubuntu/edubuntu at that time.

Failing that I believe there was also the kubuntuforums, although I am not sure how active they were and what the current status of it is.


Forum Rules

There's no such thing as a stupid question, but there sure are a lot of inquisitive idiots !

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#46 2011-08-04 20:30:47

vladthedog
Member
Registered: 2010-12-03
Posts: 45

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

venky80 wrote:

Getting wireless to work is a bitch after new install. Especially if you have wpa connection and no terminal skills

+1

I use my netbook to test out new distro's (or i should say i did.. i've been stuck on arch on all my systems for going on a year now?) and when i initially tried to install arch on it, using just the cli to set up wpa networking for the first time i felt like i owned the world once i got it going smile

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#47 2011-08-04 21:33:30

dhave
Arch Linux f@h Team Member
From: Outside the matrix.
Registered: 2005-05-15
Posts: 1,110

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

vladthedog wrote:
venky80 wrote:

Getting wireless to work is a bitch after new install. Especially if you have wpa connection and no terminal skills

+1

I use my netbook to test out new distro's (or i should say i did.. i've been stuck on arch on all my systems for going on a year now?) and when i initially tried to install arch on it, using just the cli to set up wpa networking for the first time i felt like i owned the world once i got it going smile

Really, who needs money, women or fame when you can have the satisfaction of setting up wpa networking on ArchLinux using the cli?


Donate to Arch!

Tired? There's a nap for that. --anonymous

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#48 2011-08-04 21:51:35

ninjaaron
Member
Registered: 2010-12-10
Posts: 289

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

maddog39 wrote:

Doesn't anyone know how to use networkmanager, its so much easier... -_- Anyone who complains about setting up networking has no excuse!

  How would you recommend setting up network manager on a fresh install without ethernet ports?
mad

dhave wrote:
vladthedog wrote:
venky80 wrote:

Getting wireless to work is a bitch after new install. Especially if you have wpa connection and no terminal skills

I use my netbook to test out new distro's (or i should say i did.. i've been stuck on arch on all my systems for going on a year now?) and when i initially tried to install arch on it, using just the cli to set up wpa networking for the first time i felt like i owned the world once i got it going smile

Really, who needs money, women or fame when you can have the satisfaction of setting up wpa networking on ArchLinux using the cli?

Hence: "I just invented the internet."

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#49 2011-08-04 23:03:01

Shark
Member
From: /dev/zero
Registered: 2011-02-28
Posts: 663

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

I really don't like hostile attitude towards GNU/Linux distros.Ubuntu has done way more for GNU/Linux distros than any other distro. Ubuntu is really cool when you need a computer to run out of box or when you are a beginner.
When i first seen Arch Wiki Installation guide i said:"Oh my God, what the hell is that?". When i have for the first time installed it i said: "Well, that really wasn't hard." What i want to say is - you can install Ubuntu and most of other distros as "Expert install" which means that installation procedure is quite similar to the Arch installation. You can understand GNU/Linux foundations through Ubuntu or Arch Linux. The choice is yours.
I have seen on Ubuntu Forums people who is smart, knowledgeable and friendly. I have seen that on Ach forums too. The debate is meaningless. You can't compare apples and grapes. Ubuntu and Arch relates to different context.
And people on Ubuntu Forums are way more friendly and helpfull.

If you really want to learn GNU/Linux then try Gentoo or Linux From Scratch. There is going the real playground.

PS:
For some time now i use only Arch Linux and i am very happy. I am as happy as i was when i was using Ubuntu and Debian Testing. It's all about taste. And taste is not debatable smile


If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be. Now put foundations under them.
Henry David Thoreau

Registered Linux User: #559057

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#50 2011-08-04 23:28:46

stlarch
Member
From: hell
Registered: 2010-12-25
Posts: 1,250

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

Shark wrote:

Ubuntu has done way more for GNU/Linux distros than any other distro.

I think the Debian guys would disagree with you there. Ubuntu wouldn't exist without Debian. Red Hat has done a lot too.

Shark wrote:

And people on Ubuntu Forums are way more friendly and helpfull.

Friendly? Maybe. Helpful? Doubtful. I quess it depends on how you define helpful.

Last edited by stlarch (2011-08-04 23:46:46)

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