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#51 2011-08-05 00:42:10

hauzer
Member
From: Belgrade, Serbia
Registered: 2010-11-17
Posts: 279
Website

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

And people on Ubuntu Forums are way more friendly and helpfull.

Now that's just trying to set a thread aflame, but I'm not going to light the sparks, thank you.


Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.
What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun?
All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again.
For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

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#52 2011-08-05 01:00:52

ANOKNUSA
Member
Registered: 2010-10-22
Posts: 2,141

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

Inxsible wrote:
ANOKNUSA wrote:

I switched from GNOME to KDE, which basically meant that when I needed help with anything I was going to have to figure it out myself, since the attitude of most on the Ubuntu forums is that KDE sucks because it isn't identical to GNOME.

Really? When I was over on ubuntu forums, I would see quite a lot of threads with [kubuntu] and help was quite forthcoming. They had this "Select flavor" thingy when creating threads and you could choose ubuntu/kubuntu/xubuntu/edubuntu at that time.

Failing that I believe there was also the kubuntuforums, although I am not sure how active they were and what the current status of it is.

Yeah, kubuntuforums.net tended to be more useful, though there's still a thread I opened there from nearly a year ago (after leaving Ubuntu, shortly before coming to Arch, when I was still in distro limbo) with only a single reply and no solution.  The problem is that while their may be a wealth of raw info on the forums, much of it is repeated again and again, and the more it bloats out the less useful it may be.  I guess that's just one of the costs of having lots of newcomers all the time.  When I first made the switch, I asked for some help on a couple different message boards and didn't get much of it.  KDE plug-ins and plasmoids, for example, tend to use cmake rather than plain old make; not knowing that, when I asked for help compiling a couple things (according to instructions provided by the package--it was a case of dependency hell) I was just given the standard "configure, make, make install" speech, or told that nothing on kde-look.org required compiling, neither of which was true or applicable.  I never did get an answer on my compiling question; I was just told to use a PPA to install it, and how was I supposed to know that this  package existed in one individual's obscure PPA (not that of the developer)?  It all worked out, as I became more self-sufficient that way, not wanting to wait around for some non-answer rather than being proactive with my time.  Which in the end led me to ditch Ubuntu since it's "simplifications" just got in my way after a short time.  It was a learning experience for me, and I that's what really counts isn't it?

Last edited by ANOKNUSA (2011-08-05 01:03:52)

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#53 2011-08-05 08:16:11

Shark
Member
From: /dev/zero
Registered: 2011-02-28
Posts: 663

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

@stlarch
Debian has done a great deal, esspecially providing "base" for Ubuntu. But Ubuntu has done all the marketing, polishing, making simpler for average user... that is a story for success. But if this is too easy and "boring" for advanced users then they should choose "expert install" or just use Arch, Gentoo, Linux from Scratch,...

Ubuntu forums were always helpful for me or in other words at least as helpful as Arch forums. That is my experience. One of the badest experience of forums was Debian forums - at least in attitude.

@hauzer
My intentions were not to create conlict. What i have wrote is simply my experience not an objective statement.

Last edited by Shark (2011-08-05 08:16:52)


If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be. Now put foundations under them.
Henry David Thoreau

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#54 2011-08-05 13:01:34

lukaszan
Member
Registered: 2011-05-05
Posts: 117

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

stlarch wrote:
Shark wrote:

Ubuntu has done way more for GNU/Linux distros than any other distro.

I think the Debian guys would disagree with you there. Ubuntu wouldn't exist without Debian. Red Hat has done a lot too.

Shark wrote:

And people on Ubuntu Forums are way more friendly and helpfull.

Friendly? Maybe. Helpful? Doubtful. I quess it depends on how you define helpful.

Or maybe it just depends on personal experience. Ubuntu was my first, and oh my god, I learned tonnes. I didn't even know what 'make' was. Everything, from 'configure make install' to kernel setup and runlevels, explained by good will people. No books, no wiki's, all from forum.

That was about 7 years ago, mind you. Could things have changed this much since ?

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#55 2011-08-05 13:26:59

Awebb
Member
Registered: 2010-05-06
Posts: 4,640

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

There is an excellent german ubuntu board at ubuntuusers.de. the community is friendly, there are a lot of users with great knowledge, they have a wiki comparable to the arch wiki (if i dont find it here, i'll find it there). The variety of douches is higher there of course, noone there is told to go away for being ignorant and lazy.

The board itself is like ubuntu, it has a lot of toys like jabber reminder for subscriptions etc, stuff you don't really need but are cool to have.  I like the beginner friendly wiki, the samba article for example. I really needed a quick intro, had no time for a long read, so I went there. I can afford to be lazy, as I know I will do it the hard way later anyway, when there is time- Ubuntu also took my initial fear or Apparmor. Seing it in a working environment (and letting me iron out the wrinkles) encouraged me to try it on arch from the scratch.

To me, Ubuntu is like a config file live demo. The etc cheatsheet. Whenever I have trouble imagining how new (to me) software works, I have a look at how ubuntu does it. I have confidence, that I don't pick up any bad style or habits, which ubuntu seems to be famous for.

Before ubuntu got famous, we made fun of suse, for it's toyish ways and KDE fetishism, now we seem to have forgotten, how much suse sucks, we now have ubuntu. Has any one of you tried suse lately? I bet not... I haven't either...

tl;dr my train has arrived.

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#56 2011-08-05 14:38:40

songandsilence
Member
From: Burlingame, KS, USA
Registered: 2010-12-01
Posts: 28

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

I have tried SuSE recently. It wasn't too bad, except that YaST is a pain in the ass. I started to miss having Arch on it though, so I put my Arch drive back in.

And Ubuntu isn't absolutely terrible, as it has made a few bits of progress, but I'd send a new user over to Mint, or Arch, if I thought they were capable of running Arch with zero experience. Of course, if I could port that Mint Menu over to Arch, that'd make my day.

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#57 2011-08-05 16:00:33

itsbrad212
Member
From: Chicago, USA
Registered: 2010-01-23
Posts: 1,848

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

Shark wrote:

@stlarch
Debian has done a great deal, esspecially providing "base" for Ubuntu. But Ubuntu has done all the marketing, polishing, making simpler for average user... that is a story for success.

How are marketing and simplification useful contributions to a user base that is generally anti-big-business and anti-user-friendly? (especially when Ubuntu/Canonical reap all of the benefits; I wouldn't really call that a "success story" for the Linux community as a whole)

Unless, of course, you mean that Ubuntu helps to bring new users aboard the Linux ark, in which case I suppose that you have a valid point. Although that's not necessarily a beneficial thing in many people's opinions. wink


Shark wrote:

@hauzer
My intentions were not to create conlict. What i have wrote is simply my experience not an objective statement.

Even so, "well, they're way friendlier and way more helpful than you guys" is not the best way to initiate a civil conversation.

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#58 2011-08-05 16:10:42

Shark
Member
From: /dev/zero
Registered: 2011-02-28
Posts: 663

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

@itsbrad
I meant what you have written: Ubuntu brings new people.

I have written what my experiences were. I didn't want to insult anybody but critic itself is not (necessarily) hostile/flaming per se. I must admit that i am much worse when it comes to help since i don't help much on forums. But i couldn't imagine that i would insult or be rude toward users who are begginers or the ones who post for some "stupid" questions. Of course, there is a boundary.


If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be. Now put foundations under them.
Henry David Thoreau

Registered Linux User: #559057

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#59 2011-08-05 17:15:46

itsbrad212
Member
From: Chicago, USA
Registered: 2010-01-23
Posts: 1,848

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

Shark wrote:

@itsbrad
I meant what you have written: Ubuntu brings new people.

In that case, I suppose that I'm inclined to agree with you. smile

Shark wrote:

I have written what my experiences were. I didn't want to insult anybody but critic itself is not (necessarily) hostile/flaming per se. I must admit that i am much worse when it comes to help since i don't help much on forums. But i couldn't imagine that i would insult or be rude toward users who are begginers or the ones who post for some "stupid" questions. Of course, there is a boundary.

I don't necessarily think it was the criticism that I cared about, because for the most part, that's the best type of feedback; I'm certainly not offended (I rarely do take offence, quite frankly). I just found it a little odd to make such a blanket statement about the "Arch community", as if it were a single entity. I've met plenty of wonderful people here who are always readily willing to help, so to classify them into that category threw me off a little bit.

In my opinion, the "insults" (or harshness, rather) are well-deserved by beginners that blatantly ignore the thorough documentation that we have in place. Sternness can be a good thing, just as parents tell their children: "you'll thank me for this later." wink

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#60 2011-08-05 18:14:29

Shark
Member
From: /dev/zero
Registered: 2011-02-28
Posts: 663

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

itsbrad212 wrote:

I just found it a little odd to make such a blanket statement about the "Arch community", as if it were a single entity. I've met plenty of wonderful people here who are always readily willing to help, so to classify them into that category threw me off a little bit.
In my opinion, the "insults" (or harshness, rather) are well-deserved by beginners that blatantly ignore the thorough documentation that we have in place. Sternness can be a good thing, just as parents tell their children: "you'll thank me for this later." wink

I didn't mean that Arch Community is single entity, rather that you can find more "insulting" ot "harsh" people here than in Ubuntu Forums. After some thoughts i will restate my self: my first impressions of Arch Community were really dissapointing in terms of attitude because i wasn't used of it. But generally, Arch users are helpfull and friendly.

Last edited by Shark (2011-08-05 18:14:55)


If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be. Now put foundations under them.
Henry David Thoreau

Registered Linux User: #559057

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#61 2011-08-05 18:24:15

Inxsible
Forum Fellow
From: Chicago
Registered: 2008-06-09
Posts: 9,079

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

Lets keep the thread on topic please.


Forum Rules

There's no such thing as a stupid question, but there sure are a lot of inquisitive idiots !

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#62 2011-08-05 19:27:50

itsbrad212
Member
From: Chicago, USA
Registered: 2010-01-23
Posts: 1,848

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

Shark wrote:

I didn't mean that Arch Community is single entity, rather that you can find more "insulting" ot "harsh" people here than in Ubuntu Forums. After some thoughts i will restate my self: my first impressions of Arch Community were really dissapointing in terms of attitude because i wasn't used of it. But generally, Arch users are helpfull and friendly.

Thanks for clarifying, I suppose we can leave it at that. smile Although I must say that with Ubuntu, the community does the hand-holding when the documentation does not. With Arch, it's usually the exact opposite: you will seldom find completely step-by-step instructions on here for those that ask for it, especially when chances are that the question being asked is very well documented in the first place.


Inxsible wrote:

Lets keep the thread on topic please.

Oh, I had thought that our posts were on topic:

OP wrote:

It's interesting to see how Arch and its users are viewed by others.

I guess it's your call though.

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#63 2011-08-08 03:01:00

Brcher
Member
Registered: 2011-06-20
Posts: 33

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

Ubuntu is pretty all right. One/Unity is kind of irritating, and I found it difficult to get to the terminal. Once you install a sane windows manager it is nice. And the packages are all really stable and well integrated. It's just a bootstrapping problem-- you need a terminal to make changes, but you can't get a terminal without making changes! (or button hunting I guess hmm ).

Anyway, one should choose to read all inter-linux 'insults' as playful ribbing. The whole point of linux is that many sizes (not one) fit all.

And people on Ubuntu Forums are way more friendly and helpfull.

I usually find the Arch forums more helpful, but that's probably because I'm looking for solutions to Arch problems. Also, I think there is a better signal/noise ratio here. On the flip side, sometimes the answer here will be <link to wiki> or <link to old thread> which may be misconstrued as hostile (but it does improve the signal/noise ratio).

Also, Archers is a way better name than Ubuntu-ers, or whatever those weirdos call themselves. tongue

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#64 2011-08-08 06:33:37

nixpunk
Member
Registered: 2009-11-23
Posts: 268

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

dhave wrote:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1815121

It's interesting to see how Arch and its users are viewed by others.

Is it wrong for me to find that thread cute?

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#65 2011-08-08 07:02:09

itsbrad212
Member
From: Chicago, USA
Registered: 2010-01-23
Posts: 1,848

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

nixpunk wrote:
dhave wrote:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1815121

It's interesting to see how Arch and its users are viewed by others.

Is it wrong for me to find that thread cute?

Well I know that my first instinct was to run up and pinch its little cheeks!

Last edited by itsbrad212 (2011-08-08 07:04:46)

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#66 2011-08-08 14:58:03

nixpunk
Member
Registered: 2009-11-23
Posts: 268

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

lol

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#67 2011-08-23 20:23:20

655321
Member
From: Costa Rica
Registered: 2009-12-08
Posts: 412
Website

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

awesome,  three way forums talk haha


Linux user #498977
With microsoft you get windows and gates, with linux you get the whole house!
My Blog about ArchLinux and other stuff

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#68 2011-09-15 01:39:11

thatnewyorker
Member
From: Brooklyn
Registered: 2009-01-24
Posts: 73

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

You should see the hate Arch gets on 4chan's /g/. Mentioning it at all will get you 99% troll responses.


Whats happening to me? Why am I turning evil for you?

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#69 2011-09-15 01:47:03

karol
Archivist
Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,433

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

thatnewyorker wrote:

You should see

Thanks, but no thanks :-)

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#70 2011-09-15 10:05:08

Lone_Wolf
Member
From: Netherlands, Europe
Registered: 2005-10-04
Posts: 4,662

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

thatnewyorker wrote:

You should see the hate Arch gets on 4chan's /g/. Mentioning it at all will get you 99% troll responses.

can you shed some light on why they hate arch (just curiosity) ?


Booting with apg Openrc, NOT systemd.
Automounting : not needed, i prefer pmount
Aur helpers : makepkg + my own local repo === rarely need them

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#71 2011-09-15 10:10:32

jasonwryan
Anarchist
From: .nz
Registered: 2009-05-09
Posts: 20,092
Website

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

Lone_Wolf wrote:
thatnewyorker wrote:

You should see the hate Arch gets on 4chan's /g/. Mentioning it at all will get you 99% troll responses.

can you shed some light on why they hate arch (just curiosity) ?

It's the new Gentoo tongue


Arch + dwm   •   Mercurial repos  •   Github

Registered Linux User #482438

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#72 2011-09-16 02:59:07

ninjaaron
Member
Registered: 2010-12-10
Posts: 296

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

Brcher wrote:

Ubuntu is pretty all right. One/Unity is kind of irritating, and I found it difficult to get to the terminal. Once you install a sane windows manager it is nice. And the packages are all really stable and well integrated. It's just a bootstrapping problem-- you need a terminal to make changes, but you can't get a terminal without making changes! (or button hunting I guess hmm ).

ctrl+alt+t
or
mod4 and start typing the word 'terminal'
[/facepalm]

Last edited by ninjaaron (2011-09-16 02:59:55)

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#73 2011-09-16 03:20:54

the sad clown
Member
From: 192.168.0.X
Registered: 2011-03-20
Posts: 833

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

jasonwryan wrote:

It's the new Gentoo tongue

What was the old Gentoo?  Besides being Gentoo.


I laugh, yet the joke is on me

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#74 2011-09-16 03:32:33

stlarch
Member
From: hell
Registered: 2010-12-25
Posts: 1,250

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

Genone?

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#75 2011-09-16 03:36:03

jasonwryan
Anarchist
From: .nz
Registered: 2009-05-09
Posts: 20,092
Website

Re: Funny thread: Ubuntu guys talking about Arch (with admiration, mainly)

For some, the enthusiasm with which it is embraced is inversely proportionate to the competence of the embracer, compounded by the frequency and volume of their assessments of their "1337ness".

stereotypical IRC exchange wrote:

n00b: I've just rebooted and my screen is all black! HALP!
chap: what distro?
n00b: Arch big_smile


chap: the new Gentoo...


Arch + dwm   •   Mercurial repos  •   Github

Registered Linux User #482438

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