Daniel Robbins accepts new position with Microsoft

ozar · 2005-06-14 01:19:45

Didn't realize he had gone over to Microsoft. Just found this posted on the Gentoo website frontpage:

Daniel Robbins accepts new position with Microsoft, finalizes transfer of Gentoo Technologies IP to the Gentoo Foundation
Posted on June 13, 2005 by g2boojum
Gentoo founder and former Gentoo Chief Architect Daniel Robbins began a new position at Microsoft on 23 May 2005. According to drobbins: "I'm helping Microsoft to understand Open Source and community-based projects." While in the midst of hastily packing to move to Redmond, drobbins nonetheless managed to find the time to finalize the transfer of Gentoo's intellectual property (essentially copyrights on ebuilds and other software as well as soon-to-be trademarked Gentoo logos) to the not-for-profit Gentoo Foundation, Inc.

sud_crow · 2005-06-14 01:28:46

I usually dont get this type things... do they really think they "are helping MS to understand Open Source .... [..]" ??? Or this is some kind of thing they use so the open source community doesnt jump over them and kill their reputation?

I cant believe someone needs to help MS understand anything about F/OSS. They know what it is, its a threat to their bussiness, to their monopoly, nothing more, nothing else.

There has to be _real_ good money on this kind of "transfers" i believe... I have the same kind of doubts about Miguel De Icaza although im a great fan of all his work, their "faith" in microsoft's goodwill is preoccupating, at least.

cactus · 2005-06-14 01:36:54

Well, Microsoft has always had a history of hiring really smart people, if for no other reason, than to keep them from working for the competition.
I hear that google has been doing this to microsoft in fact. Enticing some of their workers to come work for google.

Still, I am surprised drobbins decided to go work for microsoft. I would think he wouldn't have a hard time getting a job somewhere else. He must have been given a rather large carrot of some kind..

johnisevil · 2005-06-14 01:50:23

emerge microsoft

sud_crow · 2005-06-14 01:54:37

johnisevil wrote:

emerge microsoft

LOL.
That made me remember i hadnt look at Slashdot for the last 5 hours.

sarah31 · 2005-06-14 04:08:07

Feh so what if he wanted to move on to something else that he found more interesting and would actually pay him well for his time? I can't condemn someone for wanting something better for himself.

This is really not big, surprising or frustrating news. It is really a non issue.

dust · 2005-06-14 04:09:39

I couldn't agree more sarah. Especially after the shit that alot of users and devs in the gentoo community gave him.

# edit (typo)
..haven't had my coffee yet ><

wrm · 2005-06-14 19:00:28

sud_crow wrote:

...
I cant believe someone needs to help MS understand anything about F/OSS. They know what it is, its a threat to their bussiness, to their monopoly, nothing more, nothing else.
...

I totaly disagree with you. I don't think that you can call Open Source comunity a threat to microsoft's monopoly. Microsoft (Bill at the beginning) found a very nice way to make money, and now, it's a monopoly, and I don't think that such a small community could be a threat. Well I'm talking about actual situation, not about the future. But about the future things...don't forget the fact, that microsoft isn't standing still and waiting for someone to replace them, they working on their own projects and that's not bad. Windows OS and other microsoft software is improving.

sud_crow wrote:

...
I usually dont get this type things... do they really think they "are helping MS to understand Open Source .... [..]" ??? Or this is some kind of thing they use so the open source community doesnt jump over them and kill their reputation?
...

WTF? I can't understand how can you say that? You're trying to say that founder of such a great project would suddenly forget all his fights for Open Source and will start making money with microsoft?

-sorry for bad english-

Dusty · 2005-06-14 19:07:01

Seeing as I'd never even heard of Daiel Robbins before, its probably not my place to comment here. But the issue about Open Source vs Microsoft is taken so seriously.

Although most of us will say Windows XP is the worst OS MS has come out with yet, I've only crashed it once here at work, and it seems to be a lot more stable and user-friendly than my previous experience with Windows (95).

What this tells me is that something has made MS decide to make a better product. The threat of competition from Linux has improved Windows. I think this is a good thing. It means that every Windows XP user out there has been influenced by Linux!!

I suspect that the next release of IE will be a heck of a lot better than IE 6 too. Firefox is improving IE. Even if Firefox doesn't take over the market (though I would like it to), the quality of web browsers will have been improved.

Open source may or may not threaten the MS monopoly. However, it has improved the quality of their software. When it comes down to it, that's the goal!

Dusty

wrm · 2005-06-14 19:16:11

My opinion is the same. It doesn't matter what software or what softmaker (wheter it be a Microsoft or some other Open Source organization) will be most popular. The main thing is stability, security etc. When all soft will be secure and stable, then you will choose what to use.

iBertus · 2005-06-14 19:55:03

IMHO, Windows XP is probably the BEST operating system MS has ever published. Having been an MS user for years before trying linux, moving back to MS, and finally trying linux again, I can say that when compared to previous generations Windows XP is great. It's very easy to use and has the features that most people expect from an operating system. I wouldn't use it for a workstation and I wouldn't use it for a server, but I might use it for a desktop/family PC.

As dusty said, who is this guy? I had not heard of him either until reading this thread. The thought that one person can harm the F/OSS movement is aginst the philosophy that the movement is founded on. Perhaps the individual will be missed by those he worked with, but his place can be filled by one of the many people willing to write code. Being anyother way is to be weak and easy to destroy.

sarah31 · 2005-06-14 20:01:01

knowing the way OSS people can be the people that worked around him and the community he was invovled with will label him as public enemy number one. Well many will. Those who leave the OSS community or disagree with any of its Gods or Commandments usually get labelled as heretics and are slaughtered personally.

I hate people that get that emotional .

(Yes they can be found in any OS community but it really seems like the OSS community is a bit more militant in their beliefs for some reason.)

This is just my observation feel free to bring out the hardware if you like.

wdemoss · 2005-06-14 20:01:13

I know him mainly from alot of really good articles he wrote on the ibm developer works site. So a search for robbins and you'll find artcles ranging from filesystem implementations to awk. He wrote a really excelent series explaining filesystems, software raid, lvm, and evms that taught me alot about how it all gos together.

link to search results if your interested results

dtw · 2005-06-14 22:21:13

iBertus wrote:

IMHO, Windows XP is probably the BEST operating system MS has ever published. Having been an MS user for years before trying linux, moving back to MS, and finally trying linux again, I can say that when compared to previous generations Windows XP is great. It's very easy to use and has the features that most people expect from an operating system. I wouldn't use it for a workstation and I wouldn't use it for a server, but I might use it for a desktop/family PC.

FULL ack to that! Dusty you are confused - it is Windows ME that is a blight on the software world!

sud_crow · 2005-06-14 23:12:36

sarah wrote:

This is really not big, surprising or frustrating news. It is really a non issue.

I do think is an issue, but you wouldnt understand why, so i guess i wont try to explain it. I rather see the Polar Bear from far away, than get in her cave.

wrm wrote:

I totaly disagree with you. I don't think that you can call Open Source comunity a threat to microsoft's monopoly. Microsoft (Bill at the beginning) found a very nice way to make money, and now, it's a monopoly, and I don't think that such a small community could be a threat. Well I'm talking about actual situation, not about the future. But about the future things...don't forget the fact, that microsoft isn't standing still and waiting for someone to replace them, they working on their own projects and that's not bad. Windows OS and other microsoft software is improving.

You should read a bit more, even this topic will bring a bit of light to your view of this. If F/OOS seems a "small community" to you, and you think that all the last movements from MS arent related at all with F/OSS, then again, you should read more. I never sayd MS was standing still, nor that they werent working in something, i think thats more than clear when you see IE 7 coming in to XP.

wrm wrote:

WTF? I can't understand how can you say that? You're trying to say that founder of such a great project would suddenly forget all his fights for Open Source and will start making money with microsoft?

I hope this was sarcasm.

@Dusty: liked your post, but im with dible here, ME stinked... XP is just below 2000 in my quality standars.

@wrm: That has nothing to do with Free Software filosophy. your are just seeing the 'free as in beer" instead of the "free as in freedom". So i guess you give a shit about freedom in software. I DONT, but im not a zealot, i just believe that FS its good, and support it, even when i use propietary software everyday at work, or whatever, thats because im also realistic, you cant take over the world from one day to the other. Even if you have good intentions.

...

LOL. Sarah, you hate ppl who get emotional? then, how do you call your comments? but I do agree with you here that FOSS people can be a bit fanatic sometimes...

Gullible Jones · 2005-06-14 23:44:41

I personally dislike the idea of entirely proprietary code, for the simple reason that keeping "secrets" hampers technological progress.

sarah31 · 2005-06-15 03:06:46

sud_crow wrote:

sarah wrote:
This is really not big, surprising or frustrating news. It is really a non issue.
I do think is an issue, but you wouldnt understand why, so i guess i wont try to explain it. I rather see the Polar Bear from far away, than get in her cave.

So FOSS developers are not allowed to do as they wish? Did you ever think that this move IS beneficial to both MS and the FOSS community? Apple certainly has come to see the benfit of opening some of their OS up to the OSS community. In fact they have even given time and money to OSS projects in the past. I am sure it was with the help of people with a background in FOSS that Apple made the changes they did.

Perhaps more FOSS people on the MS Camp will make them see the benefit. MS can still make boatloads of cash and be a monopoly if they open up some of their code.

LOL. Sarah, you hate ppl who get emotional? then, how do you call your comments? but I do agree with you here that FOSS people can be a bit fanatic sometimes...

Well let me put it this way. I do not have time for the fanatics, as you call them. You may not see yourself as a fanatic but you are to some degree. You seem to have the same squeued perception of freedom that many in the Open Source community have. You ridicule and condemn Robbins for making a decision that he thought was best for him and computing. You basically say he was bought out and he was trying to cover his ass for the reasons he gave.

If you did believe in freedom you would accept, or at least not condemn, people for decisions they felt they had to make. As far as I am concerned I don't have issues with whether or not source is open or not ... I understand the reasoning for both. Neither model is great and knowledgible beople will exploit those that are less knowledgible in both camps.

I certainly don't believe in some of the prices that companies charge for their software (hear me Adobe?) but you get people charging for what essentially is the work of other people (hear me Libranet?) in FOSS movement too.

Anyway. This topic bores me .. it is like gay marriage .... who cares what other people do as long as they don't stick their noses in my business.

cactus · 2005-06-15 03:32:41

sarah31 wrote:

Did you ever think that this move IS beneficial to both MS and the FOSS community?

I didn't. Beneficial to MS..potentially. Beneficial to Daniel, most likely..beneficial to windows users, most likely...beneficial to FOSS (Free/Open Source Software)...unlikely.

Apple certainly has come to see the benfit of opening some of their OS up to the OSS community. In fact they have even given time and money to OSS projects in the past. I am sure it was with the help of people with a background in FOSS that Apple made the changes they did.

Apple has a history of doing the bare minimum required by open source licenses. I believe apple takes far more than they give back. But this is ok. I have no problem with it. They *do* obey the licenses, and reciprocate code. They are truly within their rights. I just dont think apple should be held as a "model FOSS corporate citizen".

Perhaps more FOSS people on the MS Camp will make them see the benefit. MS can still make boatloads of cash and be a monopoly if they open up some of their code.

I truly hope so. But, history has made me a bit pessimistic when viewing the dealings of MS.

You ridicule and condemn Robbins for making a decision that he thought was best for him and computing. You basically say he was bought out and he was trying to cover his ass for the reasons he gave.

I dont know about you, but I have read nothing about him thinking this will be "beneficial to computing". I have read "helping MS understand open source better". Likely he was entice by $$ too. Nothing about some far reaching, "doing it for computer users everywhere" though, as a blanket term like "computing" generalizes to in my mind.

If you did believe in freedom you would accept, or at least not condemn, people for decisions they felt they had to make.

Freedom does not mean freedom from criticism.

As far as I am concerned I don't have issues with whether or not source is open or not ... I understand the reasoning for both.

I agree. But given a choice between open source, and closed..I will choose open source ...every..single...time...Not based soley on price either (I have often paid for open source software).

who cares what other people do as long as they don't stick their noses in my business.

To an extent. If "your business" invovles hurting people I care about, your damn right I will start to care.
I generally see no harm in debate. I think the real travesty occurs when people make the arguments personal, then it ceases to be a debate, and becomes a ad hominem attack. I also think that *very few* people can honestly engage in debate in a civil manner. Most people, when they "feel" they are losing, or when they no longer have a defensible position to their ideas, turn extremely nasty, and the debate is no longer a debate.

keevn7 · 2005-06-15 04:21:00

Maybe this will help him pay his hospital and whatnot bills more than the five dollars I donated to him about a year ago.

Theoden · 2005-06-15 04:28:53

sarah31 wrote:

knowing the way OSS people can be the people that worked around him and the community he was invovled with will label him as public enemy number one. Well many will. Those who leave the OSS community or disagree with any of its Gods or Commandments usually get labelled as heretics and are slaughtered personally.

I couldn't agree more with Sarah31 here.

"One thing a non-conformist cannot stand is another non-conformist who refuses to adhere to rules and mores of non-conformity!" - Anonymous

--Theoden :shock:

citral · 2005-06-15 12:29:29

So he chose for the money. Great for him, and great for Microsoft.

MS is the big winner here. Like they care for the money they pay Robbins. It's peanuts. It's easy to buy out Linux developers. Unlike Apple employees, Linux devs work for free (99%). Perhaps Robbins might even be of some use to MS by explaining them where the Linux weak spots are. Hell, MS doesn't even care if this guy works for his salary or not - the mental blow delivered to the Linux/Gentoo community is well worth the money.

So why not let me call him a hypocrite? His salary will surely compensate him for the flak he's taking right now.

As the project lead of Gentoo you're per definition anti-MS. It is your job to 'hate' them, a Linux distro can only grow at Windows' expense. Hell, for an M$-bash-fest just go post something about Windows on the Gentoo forums.
Sure, it's a clever move he did, going to the enemy side. But it also shows how little this man cares for his principles.

That said, I don't bother much: he he hadn't been too active before his switch, and of what he did, he did it for Gentoo... and I use Arch now.

sarah31 · 2005-06-15 14:30:40

the problem, Cactus, is that it is not debate people automatically make up their mind that since he is going to a big business that they don't like that his decision is solely motivated by greed or other bad things.

Robbins has made more than his fair share of contributions to FOSS and I won't overlook that. If other want to condemn him for doing what he felt he needed to do then then by all means they can but it is immature.

Robbins going to MS hurts no one because there are always people to replace him. He never legally harmed anyone so I have no reasons to be angry with him. Hating someone just because they chose a different route from your idealistic mumbo jumbo is petty.

Like i say this is a non issue it put no lives at risk and no one has been legally damaged from it.

BUT if you wanna grumble and moan about how much of a devil he by all means go ahead. It doesn't make him look bad ... if you catch my drift.

iBertus · 2005-06-16 02:17:49

If people would realize that F/OSS software has very little to do with a single individual then this would be much less of a topic for debate. Once one person has too much authority/resposibility/influence it becomes no different than being involved with a single company. F/OSS cannot survive if this is how it functions, as it's too easy for MS and others to target one person.

Even Gentoo developers have to eat and if he feels like MS is going to assist him with eating then he has every right to take them up on it. He will/has been replaced and life will continue. MS gains very little b/c one person cannot change an entire company, and linux looses little b/c it cannot rely on a single person anyhow.

yak8998 · 2005-06-16 03:27:57

sud_crow wrote:

sarah wrote:
This is really not big, surprising or frustrating news. It is really a non issue.
I do think is an issue, but you wouldnt understand why, so i guess i wont try to explain it. I rather see the Polar Bear from far away, than get in her cave.

Explain, I want to hear it. Its maybe a small issue, I'd like to know why you think its a big deal. And good job being a good man and belittling her with your post

sud_crow wrote:

@Dusty: liked your post, but im with dible here, ME stinked... XP is just below 2000 in my quality standars.

XP is based off 2000, same core and such as far as I'm aware (pre-SP2 at least), you can strip down XP to 2000-functionality if you want. I still use 2000 over XP because I don't see the need to be forced with stripping down XP.

cactus · 2005-06-16 06:23:39

keevn7 wrote:

To everyone who is shocked or thinks that Daniel is a bad person or something similar: Shutup and get over it. The man was in debt FFS. If you cannot get over it, then GTFO and go back to plotting about how you are going to kill Bill Gates the next time you fight the bot you give his name in Counterstrike with your double uzi or whatnot. Cheers.

A very reasoned argument. I am surprised you didn't call people "unpatriotic" and other such things. I always like it when people, for no reason other than rudeness, decides to finish a conversation with an --omg-stfu cflag. Like anyone's opinion but yours is invalid.
cheers.

Arch Linux

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