You are not logged in.

#1 2005-06-14 17:09:55

Dusty
Schwag Merchant
From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
Registered: 2004-01-18
Posts: 5,986
Website

Open Source Java or Open Source Java?

I just read about a new Java source license I missed a couple weeks ago:

http://www.java.net/jiul.csp

I also recently read about how the compatibility of GNU CLASSPATH is coming along, along with gcj:

http://programming.newsforge.com/progra … 54&tid=132

So, now I'm wondering which complete open source java implementation is going to be first? Will Sun finally release the JDK under open source, or will GNU be able to keep up with Sun releases -- mustang development is moving along quickly now...

I think its funny. :-P

Dusty

Offline

#2 2005-06-14 18:39:26

arooaroo
Member
From: London, UK
Registered: 2005-01-13
Posts: 1,268
Website

Re: Open Source Java or Open Source Java?

Sun almost certainly won't give provide a Free Java in the near future. Classpath is still playing catchup and will have another mountain to climb shortly when 1.6 comes out. Still, they've got this far. I'm sure the IT world is increasingly in want of a Free Java, so more and more resources will help this happen. Take Apache's Harmony as an example.

I recently wrote an article about this for OSNews. Read it here.

Offline

#3 2005-06-14 18:59:45

Dusty
Schwag Merchant
From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
Registered: 2004-01-18
Posts: 5,986
Website

Re: Open Source Java or Open Source Java?

Rofl, I just read that article, didn't know it was yours.  Nice one!

I think Sun will be making a free Java sooner than we expect.  If people start switching to other JVMs that are conforming to the standards, they'll realize they have nothing to lose by it (they already lost). I suspect Dolphin or the next one will be published under the Sun public license or some such.

I'm thinking of trying to get Ensmer working with Classpath or kaffe. Don't know if J3D or Groovy is supported or not though.

Dusty

Offline

#4 2005-06-14 22:21:52

arooaroo
Member
From: London, UK
Registered: 2005-01-13
Posts: 1,268
Website

Re: Open Source Java or Open Source Java?

There is a slight change that is interesting. Even Sun loyalists are getting annoyed at the size of the JRE. There is a large body of support saying that the JRE should remain static in terms of packages (only tweaks and bug fixes) and all new technologies should be optional extras, like all other jars. This sentiment has even been echoed by Java staff.

These external projects, like JDIC, JDNC, SwingX are all Sun sponsored yet live under a OSS license, typically BSD/LGPL/Apache. This will continue to give OSS a good name within the Java community, and being so close to official Java may give more momentum to its Freedom.

But I'm not holding my breath until .Net starts becoming dominant.

Offline

#5 2005-06-15 19:40:32

soniX
Member
From: Oslo, Norway
Registered: 2004-01-23
Posts: 161

Re: Open Source Java or Open Source Java?

To me, it looks like Mustang is heading in the wrong direction.
Keyword is BLOAT!
This article shows a couple of things I really dont understand why anyone would like in the JRE
Support for Rhino (Javascript)
JSR 105 - xml signatures, for webservices
Lightweight HTTP serverwhat is javascript, webservice specific things, and worst of all - a http server doing in the JRE ?
If something goes into the JRE, its not going out, and if they keep up the policy of throwing everything in, Im afraid this could affect the overall quality of the JRE in the long run. Leaving us with a medium quality piece of bloatware
Sun should have a look at arch and its policy, keep it simple and fast, and perhaps throw some resources at JSR 277.. the java "equivalent" of pacman
btw... @arooaroo.. great article, one of the best I have ever read at Osnews

Offline

#6 2005-06-15 19:45:04

Dusty
Schwag Merchant
From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
Registered: 2004-01-18
Posts: 5,986
Website

Re: Open Source Java or Open Source Java?

I guess the Java equivalent of pacman is Python...

You're right about all three of those things. An http server and xml sigs for web services could maybe go into the JEE, but JRE? Geez.

And Support for Rhino? I thought the standard Java scripting language was going to be Groovy. Why else have I had to change all my Groovy syntax from classic groovy to JSR groovy, eh?

Dusty

Offline

#7 2005-06-15 22:54:46

soniX
Member
From: Oslo, Norway
Registered: 2004-01-23
Posts: 161

Re: Open Source Java or Open Source Java?

There is no such thing as a standard scripting language for Java as far as I know.. Beanshell for example is now JSR 274. and you have the "bean scripting framework" as JSR 223 to let you script in several languages.

The reason for groovy to be a JSR, is to make sure that groovy itself is standarized, not to make it a standard part of java. The jsr-syntax is the very result of that process I guess.

Offline

#8 2005-06-15 23:51:21

Dusty
Schwag Merchant
From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
Registered: 2004-01-18
Posts: 5,986
Website

Re: Open Source Java or Open Source Java?

soniX wrote:

The reason for groovy to be a JSR, is to make sure that groovy itself is standarized, not to make it a standard part of java. The jsr-syntax is the very result of that process I guess.

This is true, I guess, but I thought I read somewhere that it was going to be made the standard. Personally, I think beanshell would be a better standard because it interprets Java. But I like groovy better.

My personal opinion doesn't count though, why do I voice it? :-D

Dusty

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB