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#1 2012-01-17 14:09:29

student975
Member
From: Russian Federation
Registered: 2011-03-05
Posts: 603

Net Upgrade Size - what is this?

And it can be negative:

..
Targets (1): colord-0.1.16-1

Total Download Size:    0.14 MiB
Total Installed Size:   1.09 MiB
Net Upgrade Size:       -0.02 MiB
...

Last edited by student975 (2012-01-17 14:09:40)


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#2 2012-01-17 14:18:47

Foucault
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From: Athens, Greece
Registered: 2010-04-06
Posts: 209

Re: Net Upgrade Size - what is this?

I would guess the difference between the new and the old packages installed size ([new installed size] - [old installed size]).

Last edited by Foucault (2012-01-17 14:19:40)

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#3 2012-01-17 14:22:07

Awebb
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Registered: 2010-05-06
Posts: 4,437

Re: Net Upgrade Size - what is this?

Sounds like a broken acronym for "netto" to me. What is this? pacman?

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#4 2012-01-17 14:25:20

lolilolicon
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Registered: 2009-03-05
Posts: 1,676

Re: Net Upgrade Size - what is this?

b92f6bacef2f37129ec88a90a97fb1c4.jpg

nett
     [adj]
     1: remaining after all deductions; "net profit" [syn: {net}] [ant: {gross}]

Last edited by lolilolicon (2012-01-17 14:26:53)


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#5 2012-01-17 14:34:44

karol
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Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,431

Re: Net Upgrade Size - what is this?

Yes, it's pacman with VerbosePkgLists I think.
In this situation, it doesn't have anything to do with network, as some may think.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/net (scroll down to 2nd definition)
In English it's net and gross

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#6 2012-01-17 14:42:32

student975
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From: Russian Federation
Registered: 2011-03-05
Posts: 603

Re: Net Upgrade Size - what is this?

Foucault wrote:

I would guess the difference between the new and the old packages installed size ([new installed size] - [old installed size]).

I'm sure, it would be more understandable for not-English native speakers to use something like "Installed Size Delta".


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#7 2012-01-17 14:46:37

karol
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Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,431

Re: Net Upgrade Size - what is this?

not-native English speakers can use translations.

There was a discussion about this, maybe I can find it later.

Last edited by karol (2012-01-17 14:48:24)

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#8 2012-01-17 14:49:44

student975
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From: Russian Federation
Registered: 2011-03-05
Posts: 603

Re: Net Upgrade Size - what is this?

karol wrote:

not-English native speakers can use translations.

Not at the case, I think smile


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#9 2012-01-17 14:52:15

karol
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Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,431

Re: Net Upgrade Size - what is this?

Nazwa   Poprzednia wersja  Nowa wersja  Zmiana netto  Rozmiar do pobrania

libxcb  1.7-2              1.8-1        0,98 MiB                         

Całkowity rozmiar po instalacji: 4,58 MiB
Rozmiar netto aktualizacji:  0,98 MiB

Kontynuować instalację? [T/n] 

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#10 2012-01-17 14:54:49

Awebb
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Registered: 2010-05-06
Posts: 4,437

Re: Net Upgrade Size - what is this?

Not-native speakers have their locale set to whatever they speak. Good to know the english versions of "netto" and "brutto", though.

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#11 2012-01-17 15:02:23

karol
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Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,431

Re: Net Upgrade Size - what is this?

Awebb wrote:

Not-native speakers have their locale set to whatever they speak.

I use LC_MESSAGES=C :-)

The discussion: https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/12566

Last edited by karol (2012-01-17 15:02:57)

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#12 2012-01-17 15:07:02

lolilolicon
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Registered: 2009-03-05
Posts: 1,676

Re: Net Upgrade Size - what is this?

...But how can you not know "net"?  It's all over the potato chips!


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#13 2012-01-17 15:12:55

student975
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From: Russian Federation
Registered: 2011-03-05
Posts: 603

Re: Net Upgrade Size - what is this?

karol wrote:

For me (not-English native speaker smile) it resembles a decision rather a discussion. At any case both that task and this thread apparently prove the selected term isn't the best possible one, is it?


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#14 2012-01-17 15:15:50

karol
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Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,431

Re: Net Upgrade Size - what is this?

You're right, there wasn't much of a discussion indeed. You can always open a feature request.

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#15 2012-01-17 15:17:47

Gusar
Member
Registered: 2009-08-25
Posts: 3,466

Re: Net Upgrade Size - what is this?

lolilolicon wrote:

...But how can you not know "net"?  It's all over the potato chips!

This. I though "net" and "gross" are common terms, I wouldn't have thought for a second that it could cause a confusion. It was completely obvious to me what "Net Upgrade Size" meant. Especially considering the context.

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#16 2012-01-17 15:19:06

karol
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Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,431

Re: Net Upgrade Size - what is this?

lolilolicon wrote:

...But how can you not know "net"?  It's all over the potato chips!

... in the US/UK/Australia ...
Here we get '150g' or '150 g <funny e sign>'

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#17 2012-01-17 15:42:51

lolilolicon
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Registered: 2009-03-05
Posts: 1,676

Re: Net Upgrade Size - what is this?

karol wrote:
lolilolicon wrote:

...But how can you not know "net"?  It's all over the potato chips!

... in the US/UK/Australia ...
Here we get '150g' or '150 g <funny e sign>'

Interesting, shouldn't pacman adopt <funny e sign> in your locale? big_smile


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#18 2012-01-17 16:03:50

groundnuty
Member
Registered: 2010-11-16
Posts: 17

Re: Net Upgrade Size - what is this?

I may be not a native English speaker but for me the term "Net Upgrade Size" is really counter intuitive. Firstly any computer/linux user seeking Net will think of Network, also I've yet to see the work "netto" used in context of computer science not to mention its short version "net". I can imagine it may be obvious to native-english people but it will cause problems when translated. Secondly a word "netto" in Polish is tightly connected to money and taxes and extremely rarely seen in any other context. A phrase similar to "Installation size difference" would solve the translation problem.

Last edited by groundnuty (2012-01-17 16:09:50)

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#19 2012-01-17 16:08:09

karol
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Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,431

Re: Net Upgrade Size - what is this?

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netto (for those not speaking Polish: the first definition is 'size w/o the packaging'.)

Just because some people are thinking in the wrong context or lack language skills doesn't mean we have to change an IMHO accurate description.
Please open a feature request and let pacman devs decide.

Last edited by karol (2012-01-17 16:09:41)

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#20 2012-01-17 16:16:31

TheAmigo
Member
Registered: 2008-04-08
Posts: 61

Re: Net Upgrade Size - what is this?

When I first saw that, I thought "nice, I've been wanting that."  and it seemed perfectly obvious that "Total Installed Size" was gross and "Net Upgrade Size" is the number that was missing previously.

Then again, I'm a native English speaker.  I can understand that it may seem confusing at first to non-native English speakers, but that should be an opportunity to learn a new definition.  English is a tricky language with many homonyms and homophones, but that doesn't mean we should stop using correct terms.

I don't say this to be rude or make it difficult to non-native English speakers.  As I'm studying Polish, I don't expect any native Polish speakers to alter their normal word choice for me, I'd rather learn to read it as native speakers use it.

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#21 2012-01-17 16:36:37

karol
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Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,431

Re: Net Upgrade Size - what is this?

TheAmigo wrote:

I don't say this to be rude or make it difficult to non-native English speakers.  As I'm studying Polish, I don't expect any native Polish speakers to alter their normal word choice for me, I'd rather learn to read it as native speakers use it.

Hopefully you don't have to learn English, you can use pacman in your native lang:
* https://www.transifex.net/projects/p/ar … acman-pot/
* http://www.archlinux.org/pacman/translation-help.html

Edit: I think https://www.transifex.net/projects/p/ar … n/r/4-0-1/ is more accurate, as it's for pacman 4.

Last edited by karol (2012-01-17 16:39:01)

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#22 2012-01-17 16:59:27

SS4
Member
From: !Rochford, Essex
Registered: 2010-12-05
Posts: 699

Re: Net Upgrade Size - what is this?

lolilolicon wrote:
karol wrote:
lolilolicon wrote:

...But how can you not know "net"?  It's all over the potato chips!

... in the US/UK/Australia ...
Here we get '150g' or '150 g <funny e sign>'

Interesting, shouldn't pacman adopt <funny e sign> in your locale? big_smile

Only if it's within a certain deviation from the marked amount big_smile


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#23 2012-01-17 17:31:23

Leonid.I
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From: Aethyr
Registered: 2009-03-22
Posts: 948

Re: Net Upgrade Size - what is this?

student975 wrote:
karol wrote:

For me (not-English native speaker smile) it resembles a decision rather a discussion. At any case both that task and this thread apparently prove the selected term isn't the best possible one, is it?

What's so hard understanding "net upgrade size"? I'm russian too and didn't find it troubling since v4.0b2. Just use your brain -- what else could it mean?

If you are asking about the relevance of this number, taking into account different FS etc., then you are probably right: it's not that precise.


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#24 2012-01-17 18:39:41

Awebb
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Registered: 2010-05-06
Posts: 4,437

Re: Net Upgrade Size - what is this?

Leonid.I wrote:

I'm russian too and didn't find it troubling…

You're the first one in this thread claiming to be russian. If you're russian too, even if nobody else is, then I suddenly understand the russian concept of net and gross. :-D

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#25 2012-01-17 18:45:53

jasonwryan
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From: .nz
Registered: 2009-05-09
Posts: 19,061
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Re: Net Upgrade Size - what is this?

This thread should be stickied: it conclusively proves that at least some people are reading pacman's output messages...


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