Can't run kate, gedit and others, few craches...whats wrong?

big_gie · 2005-07-05 19:21:25

Hey guys,

I'm running into some troubles since a couple of days... I was working on a way to give parameters to X while launching it from kdm and now there are some things that don't work.

If I launch kate or gedit from a terminal, nothing happens, as if the program was still launching. But nothing. No cpu usage or other signs of activity. I've tryed waiting but after 5 minutes I was borred so I pressed ctrl+c to close the program.

Same thing if I launch gedit. gvim still works.

Also, if I'm in konqueror and type / as the url, X freezes. If i click a bookmark pointing to /home/me/ konqueror freezes but not X.

I then try to "save as" something from firefox and firefox freezes....

I sometimes get a fullscreen window opening from nowhere and then close imidiatly. It's too fast to see if it is a kate or gedit or other window...

What could be wrong?? Even if I try to set back my original settings, it still happens. I've tryed moving ~/.kde to ~/.kde.bak, an old (and working) /etc/X11/xorg.conf, nothing works...:(

Thank you for your help...

big_gie · 2005-07-05 19:32:46

I think it could be related to fonts...
I can google with konqueror, but my fonts seems ugly... What should I check??

Dusty · 2005-07-05 20:01:25

maybe /etc/fonts/local.conf... make sure you read the wiki on fonts. One of the thing s in there may have been bjorked during an update somehow. No idea really, just tossing out ideas.

Dusty

cactus · 2005-07-05 20:26:56

you might check your dispay environment variable.
type 'export' in a terminal, and see what it shows.
you should see something like:

declare -x DISPLAY=":0.0"

big_gie · 2005-07-05 20:37:07

cactus wrote:

you might check your dispay environment variable.
type 'export' in a terminal, and see what it shows.
you should see something like:
declare -x DISPLAY=":0.0"

Yes I have this line after typing "export"...

Since I think I was playing around with kdm when the problem occured, I changed the line in /etc/inittab from x:5:respawn:/opt/kde/bin/kdm -nodaemon to x:5:respawn:/opt/kde/bin/gdm -nodaemon
and I then had ugly fonts in firefox and konqueror. After changing it back to kdm, fonts looks ok in firefox and konqueror...

I just "pacman -Syu" and update everything (including xorg) and also upgraded my kernel to 2.6.12.2 with the fbsplash patch. Nothing is resolved...:(

I've checked /etc/fonts/local.conf but I cant see anything wrong with it...

big_gie · 2005-07-05 20:41:24

I do have this in my /var/log/daemon.log:

Jul 5 16:30:29 di8500 kdm: :0[5095]: PAM unable to dlopen(/lib/security/pam_console.so)
Jul 5 16:30:29 di8500 kdm: :0[5095]: PAM [dlerror: /lib/security/pam_console.so: cannot open shared object file: No s
uch file or directory]
Jul 5 16:30:29 di8500 kdm: :0[5095]: PAM adding faulty module: /lib/security/pam_console.so

Could it be related?

Edit
...and in /var/log/errors.log:

Jul 5 16:30:29 di8500 kdm: :0[5095]: PAM unable to dlopen(/lib/security/pam_console.so)
Jul 5 16:30:29 di8500 kdm: :0[5095]: PAM [dlerror: /lib/security/pam_console.so: cannot open shared object file: No s
uch file or directory]
Jul 5 16:30:29 di8500 kdm: :0[5095]: PAM adding faulty module: /lib/security/pam_console.so
Jul 5 16:30:29 di8500 kde-np(pam_unix)[5095]: unrecognized option [service=system-auth]
Jul 5 16:30:29 di8500 kde-np(pam_unix)[5095]: unrecognized option [service=system-auth]

big_gie · 2005-07-05 21:04:20

I also checked the /var/log/kdm.log and those are the first lines:

_XSERVTransSocketOpenCOTSServer: Unable to open socket for inet6
_XSERVTransOpen: transport open failed for inet6/di8500:0
_XSERVTransMakeAllCOTSServerListeners: failed to open listener for inet6

big_gie · 2005-07-05 21:42:57

I've tryed running kate again, and now it ran after 2 minutes of waiting. In the terminal window, I have this output:

-(nicolas@di8500:3)-(62 files:35M@Telecharges)-(0 jobs)-(17:29)-
-(~/Fichiers/Telecharges:$)-> kate
Session management error: Authentication Rejected, reason : None of the authentication protocols specified are supported and host-based authentication failed
kbuildsycoca running...
Session management error: Authentication Rejected, reason : None of the authentication protocols specified are supported and host-based authentication failed
ASSERT: "m_currentContainer==container" in kateviewmanager.cpp (196)
-(nicolas@di8500:3)-(63 files:35M@Telecharges)-(0 jobs)-(17:36)-
-(~/Fichiers/Telecharges:$)->

Why does it takes 2 minutes??!!

Dusty · 2005-07-05 22:09:27

sounds like PAM might be bjorked. Try reinstalling it... I think its pacman -S pam or pacman -S libpam, or maybe its part of shadow, lol.

pacman -Qo pam_console.so should tell you the name of the package.

Dusty

big_gie · 2005-07-05 22:30:03

Ok I reinstalled pam with pacman -S pam

Didn't seems to change anything... running kate I get:

> kate
DCOPClient::attachInternal. Attach failed Could not open network socket
DCOPClient::attachInternal. Attach failed Could not open network socket
Link points to "/tmp/ksocket-nicolas"
Link points to "/tmp/kde-nicolas"

And after 2 minutes I get:

kbuildsycoca running...

I'm still waiting for kate to launch after 5 minutes...

I still have, in daemon.log,errors.log and everything.log:

Jul 5 18:21:24 di8500 kdm: :0[5318]: PAM unable to dlopen(/lib/security/pam_console.so)
Jul 5 18:21:24 di8500 kdm: :0[5318]: PAM [dlerror: /lib/security/pam_console.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory]
Jul 5 18:21:24 di8500 kdm: :0[5318]: PAM adding faulty module: /lib/security/pam_console.so

I just don't know where to look to correct this...

big_gie · 2005-07-05 23:05:06

If I run kate as root, I get this:

# kate
Link points to "/tmp/ksocket-root"
Link points to "/tmp/kde-root"
Session management error: Authentication Rejected, reason : None of the authenti cation protocols specified are supported and host-based authentication failed
kbuildsycoca running...
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/opt/kde/share/applications/kde/kpovmodeler.desktop' spe cifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'KPovModeler/Document'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/gimp.desktop' sp ecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/bmp'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/gimp.desktop' sp ecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/g3fax'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/gimp.desktop' sp ecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/jpg'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/gimp.desktop' sp ecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-compressed-xcf'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/gimp.desktop' sp ecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-fits'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/gimp.desktop' sp ecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-gray'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/gimp.desktop' sp ecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-png'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/gimp.desktop' sp ecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-portable-anymap'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/gimp.desktop' sp ecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-portable-graymap'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/gimp.desktop' sp ecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-psd'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/gimp.desktop' sp ecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-sgi'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/gimp.desktop' sp ecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-sun-raster'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/gimp.desktop' sp ecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-tga'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/gimp.desktop' sp ecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-xbitmap'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/gimp.desktop' sp ecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-xcf'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/gimp.desktop' sp ecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-xpixmap'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/gimp.desktop' sp ecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-xwindowdump'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/opt/kde/share/applications/kde/kvoctrain.desktop' speci fies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-kvoctrain'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/opt/kde/share/applications/kde/kvoctrain.desktop' speci fies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-kvtml'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/scribus.desktop' specifies undef ined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-scribus'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/opt/gnome/share/applications/rhythmbox.desktop' specifi es undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-mpeg'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/opt/gnome/share/applications/rhythmbox.desktop' specifi es undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-flac'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/htmldoc.desktop' specifies undef ined mimetype/servicetype 'application/vnd.htmldoc-book'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/opt/kde/share/applications/kde/kuickshow.desktop' speci fies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-psd'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/opt/kde/share/applications/kde/kuickshow.desktop' speci fies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-eim'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetyp e 'text/english'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetyp e 'text/mathml'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetyp e 'text/richtext'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetyp e 'text/tab-separated-values'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetyp e 'text/x-authors'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetyp e 'text/x-c'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetyp e 'text/x-c++'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetyp e 'text/x-comma-separated-values'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetyp e 'text/x-copying'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetyp e 'text/x-credits'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetyp e 'text/x-csh'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetyp e 'text/x-dcl'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetyp e 'text/x-dsl'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetyp e 'text/x-dtd'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetyp e 'text/x-emacs-lisp'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetyp e 'text/x-fortran'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetyp e 'text/x-gtkrc'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetyp e 'text/x-idl'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetyp e 'text/x-install'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetyp e 'text/x-perl'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetyp e 'text/x-python'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetyp e 'text/x-readme'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetyp e 'text/x-scheme'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetyp e 'text/x-setext'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetyp e 'text/x-sh'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'vimpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetyp e 'text/x-sql'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'kcertpart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicet ype 'application/binary-certificate'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/opt/kde/share/applications/kde/kmid.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/midi'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/xine.desktop' specifies undefine d mimetype/servicetype 'video/x-anim'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gvim.desktop' specifies undefine d mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-c++'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gvim.desktop' specifies undefine d mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-c'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gvim.desktop' specifies undefine d mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-objc'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gvim.desktop' specifies undefine d mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-perl'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gvim.desktop' specifies undefine d mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-python'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gvim.desktop' specifies undefine d mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-php'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/gvim.desktop' specifies undefine d mimetype/servicetype 'text/x-php-source'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/opt/kde/share/applications/kde/kolourpaint.desktop' spe cifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/x-psd'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'OpenOffice.org 1.1.4/web.desktop' specifies undefined mi metype/servicetype 'application/vnd.stardivision.writer.global'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'katepart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicety pe 'text/x-fortran'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'knotify.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetyp e 'KNotify'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'OpenOffice.org 1.1.4/writer.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-doc'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/totem.desktop' s pecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-extension-mp4'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/totem.desktop' s pecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'video/dv'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/totem.desktop' s pecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'video/x-mpeg'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/totem.desktop' s pecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'video/msvideo'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/totem.desktop' s pecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'video/x-anim'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/totem.desktop' s pecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'video/x-avi'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/totem.desktop' s pecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'video/x-nsv'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/totem.desktop' s pecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'video/x-flc'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/totem.desktop' s pecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'video/x-fli'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/totem.desktop' s pecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-matroska'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/totem.desktop' s pecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-mpeg'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/totem.desktop' s pecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-m4a'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/totem.desktop' s pecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-ms-asf'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/totem.desktop' s pecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-ms-asx'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/totem.desktop' s pecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-ms-wax'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/totem.desktop' s pecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-real-audio'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/totem.desktop' s pecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-flac'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/totem.desktop' s pecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'misc/ultravox'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/totem.desktop' s pecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-pn-aiff'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/totem.desktop' s pecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-pn-au'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/totem.desktop' s pecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-pn-wav'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/totem.desktop' s pecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-pn-windows-acm'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/totem.desktop' s pecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'image/vnd.rn-realpix'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/home/nicolas/.local/share/applications/totem.desktop' s pecifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'audio/x-pn-realaudio-plugin'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: 'gvimagepart.desktop' specifies undefined mimetype/servic etype 'image/x-krl'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/vmware-workstation.desktop' spec ifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-vmware-vm'
kbuildsycoca: WARNING: '/usr/share/applications/vmware-workstation.desktop' spec ifies undefined mimetype/servicetype 'application/x-vmware-team'
Session management error: Authentication Rejected, reason : None of the authenti cation protocols specified are supported and host-based authentication failed
"m_currentContainer==container" in kateviewmanager.cpp (196)
QFile::open: No file name specified

And then kate run, after 5 minutes...

big_gie · 2005-07-05 23:18:18

I've run konqueror from the command line, and after entering "/home/me" konqueror seems to hangs, but I get no errors on the console so I didn't force closed it. After 5 minutes of waiting konqueror works again. I can then browse my files.

Why is it taking so long for this stupid simple task??

Kern · 2005-07-06 09:00:05

long shot, but , what DE/WM are you using ? if is Xfce4 have you told it to start gnome and kde services at startup?

big_gie · 2005-07-06 15:51:09

Kern wrote:

long shot, but , what DE/WM are you using ? if is Xfce4 have you told it to start gnome and kde services at startup?

Yes it is Xfce4 and I've never launch the kde/gnome services at startup. I've tryed another account (using kde and not xfce4) and the welcome screen stay at "launching services..."

I could try the kde/gnome services from xfce4 but I hope it wont freeze xfce4 launching... What keep me using my computer was that I used xfce4 and not kde so xfce4 tools still works (like terminal, xffm and others).

Kern · 2005-07-06 17:54:28

Yes it is Xfce4 and I've never launch the kde/gnome services at startup.

try it. it has other implications i think, altho im not very well informed on what it uses. like gcc or whatever. it worked for me in a similar situation.

Gnome/KDE services - from xfce [settings manager] - [sessions and startup] - [Advanced]

big_gie · 2005-07-12 05:19:05

Kern wrote:

Yes it is Xfce4 and I've never launch the kde/gnome services at startup.
try it. it has other implications i think, altho im not very well informed on what it uses. like gcc or whatever. it worked for me in a similar situation.
Gnome/KDE services - from xfce [settings manager] - [sessions and startup] - [Advanced]

I just reinstalled everything. New arch system. After 2 days, still the same %?&$%?&$%?& problem....

The screen locks for 5~10 minutes in the "loading services..." in gnome or kde.

I've seen that dbus and pam have been upgraded pam 2 days ago and dbus today...

What is wrong with this???

big_gie · 2005-07-12 14:59:59

Damnit, I've found the problem!

From this thread, the problem seemed to be with networking...

Since I'm using wlan0, I tough I didn't need the network daemon set to launch in rc.conf since wlan0 is launched by "wirelless_profile".

Now that I run the network daemon, kde works fine! Except, I get the kwin crash...

I deleted ~/.kde, unload fam and portmap from rc.conf and now everything's fine!

pelle.k · 2007-04-08 12:18:02

Oh! You need to run the "lo" connection, stupid!

Arch Linux

#1 2005-07-05 19:21:25

Can't run kate, gedit and others, few craches...whats wrong?

#2 2005-07-05 19:32:46

Re: Can't run kate, gedit and others, few craches...whats wrong?

#3 2005-07-05 20:01:25

Re: Can't run kate, gedit and others, few craches...whats wrong?

#4 2005-07-05 20:26:56

Re: Can't run kate, gedit and others, few craches...whats wrong?

#5 2005-07-05 20:37:07

Re: Can't run kate, gedit and others, few craches...whats wrong?

#6 2005-07-05 20:41:24

Re: Can't run kate, gedit and others, few craches...whats wrong?

#7 2005-07-05 21:04:20

Re: Can't run kate, gedit and others, few craches...whats wrong?

#8 2005-07-05 21:42:57

Re: Can't run kate, gedit and others, few craches...whats wrong?

#9 2005-07-05 22:09:27

Re: Can't run kate, gedit and others, few craches...whats wrong?

#10 2005-07-05 22:30:03

Re: Can't run kate, gedit and others, few craches...whats wrong?

#11 2005-07-05 23:05:06

Re: Can't run kate, gedit and others, few craches...whats wrong?

#12 2005-07-05 23:18:18

Re: Can't run kate, gedit and others, few craches...whats wrong?

#13 2005-07-06 09:00:05

Re: Can't run kate, gedit and others, few craches...whats wrong?

#14 2005-07-06 15:51:09

Re: Can't run kate, gedit and others, few craches...whats wrong?

#15 2005-07-06 17:54:28

Re: Can't run kate, gedit and others, few craches...whats wrong?

#16 2005-07-12 05:19:05

Re: Can't run kate, gedit and others, few craches...whats wrong?

#17 2005-07-12 14:59:59

Re: Can't run kate, gedit and others, few craches...whats wrong?

#18 2007-04-08 12:18:02

Re: Can't run kate, gedit and others, few craches...whats wrong?

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