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#1 2012-02-12 16:09:30

W.F.Cody
Member
From: Ghent
Registered: 2010-11-18
Posts: 125

OpenBSD userland for Linux

I just found this project, where the OpenBSD userland has been ported to Linux. It sounds pretty interesting smile

https://github.com/chneukirchen/obase


My AUR packages
Any package of mine is up for grabs. If you think you could mantain it better - just contact me!

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#2 2012-02-13 20:54:05

Anonymo
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Registered: 2005-04-07
Posts: 418
Website

Re: OpenBSD userland for Linux

Will this have pf firewall?

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#3 2012-02-14 18:11:22

amranu
Member
Registered: 2008-09-25
Posts: 94

Re: OpenBSD userland for Linux

Please yes to the above.

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#4 2012-02-14 18:23:00

Gusar
Member
Registered: 2009-08-25
Posts: 3,408

Re: OpenBSD userland for Linux

Err, isn't pf a kernel thing?

Anyway, on the one hand I'd love an alternate userspace core for linux. But on the other, there's so much stuff higher in the stack depending on GNU-isms in the core, that it's kinda impossible. I've been playing with busybox a lot lately. It's awesome. But if you try replacing a few core linux utilities with it, you'll very soon hit obstacles. I kinda don't see this being different with the openbsd utils. It's fun experimenting though, you learn a lot about how a *nix system is actually put together.

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#5 2012-02-15 03:50:18

falconindy
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From: New York, USA
Registered: 2009-10-22
Posts: 4,092
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Re: OpenBSD userland for Linux

Gusar wrote:

I've been playing with busybox a lot lately. It's awesome.

I would love to know what you find to be "awesome" about busybox, ignoring the amount of space it takes up compared to coreutils and friends.

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#6 2012-02-15 04:05:48

karol
Archivist
Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,423

Re: OpenBSD userland for Linux

Not perfectly on topic, but BSD + busybox = http://www.elinux.org/Busybox_replacement_project

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#7 2012-02-15 04:21:38

Allan
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From: Brisbane, AU
Registered: 2007-06-09
Posts: 10,365
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Re: OpenBSD userland for Linux

karol wrote:

Not perfectly on topic, but BSD + busybox = http://www.elinux.org/Busybox_replacement_project

Not really BSD + busybox but more Sony + busybox...

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#8 2012-02-15 04:25:35

karol
Archivist
Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,423

Re: OpenBSD userland for Linux

Allan wrote:
karol wrote:

Not perfectly on topic, but BSD + busybox = http://www.elinux.org/Busybox_replacement_project

Not really BSD + busybox but more Sony + busybox...

It may run on Android so it's Google related this way, and I've heard Microsoft gets $$$ for Android licenses so it's Microsoft-related too ;P

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#9 2012-02-15 09:21:14

W.F.Cody
Member
From: Ghent
Registered: 2010-11-18
Posts: 125

Re: OpenBSD userland for Linux

karol wrote:

Not perfectly on topic, but BSD + busybox = http://www.elinux.org/Busybox_replacement_project


Toybox is in the AUR
https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=54158

a more BSD "busybox" would be beastiebox, but I could not build that:
https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=54014

When I got time, I will try building obase (the OpenBSD userland ported to Linux referred to above) and perhaps do a "gnu2obase" replacement packages for playing... Perhaps complemented with some heirloom stuff.


My AUR packages
Any package of mine is up for grabs. If you think you could mantain it better - just contact me!

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#10 2012-02-15 09:23:51

Gusar
Member
Registered: 2009-08-25
Posts: 3,408

Re: OpenBSD userland for Linux

falconindy wrote:

I would love to know what you find to be "awesome" about busybox, ignoring the amount of space it takes up compared to coreutils and friends.

It's pretty much about the size. But it's more than just that. I don't know how to exactly explain it - this "an entire system in a tiny binary" thing has something about it. And when I look at the size of busybox as a whole and then compare it to a *single* tool from coreutils or util-linux, my mind goes "is it really, really necessary for these things to be so large? One tool being like a third of the size of the *entire* busybox?"
Also, it's about busybox's flexibility. Many will find it's 200+ options overwhelming and as such see it as a downside of busybox, and I get that the ifdef-ery makes the code not very pretty, but I think it's a plus to be able to compile in what you need and just what you need.

While my main install doesn't replace much of the usual tools with busybox, I do use it exclusively for a few things. Most notably udhcpc and udhcpd. At some point some time ago I felt dhcpcd got really slow and also unreliable, as in it just wouldn't pick up an IP at times. So I tried other clients, among them busybox udhcpc. It is faaast and reliable. This then also prompted me to switch from dnsmasq to udhcpd for when I'm sharing one machine's internet with other machines. Another thought behind it being why install another tool, when I have this cool little binary that can do it too.


@Allan: I think Sony's connection to toyboy is being over-exaggerated. It's Rob Landley's project that existed for years before Sony said a word, and the reason he now picked it up again goes far beyond just because Sony expressed interest. Rob has documented his disappointment with the FSF and GPLv3 very extensively over the years (it's too much to read it all, but I read a bit of it). Those are his motivations for developing toybox, not Sony.

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#11 2012-02-15 11:12:26

W.F.Cody
Member
From: Ghent
Registered: 2010-11-18
Posts: 125

Re: OpenBSD userland for Linux

Gusar wrote:

Err, isn't pf a kernel thing?

Anyway, on the one hand I'd love an alternate userspace core for linux. But on the other, there's so much stuff higher in the stack depending on GNU-isms in the core, that it's kinda impossible. I've been playing with busybox a lot lately. It's awesome. But if you try replacing a few core linux utilities with it, you'll very soon hit obstacles. I kinda don't see this being different with the openbsd utils. It's fun experimenting though, you learn a lot about how a *nix system is actually put together.


Well... "stuff higher in the stack" works on OpenBSD, right? So as long as you do not expect "openBSD/Linux" to work the exactly same as GNU/Linux, you should be fine smile

The reason I can see for this would rather be someone wanting to run a BSD but who likes the Linux kernel (drivers, performance etc).


My AUR packages
Any package of mine is up for grabs. If you think you could mantain it better - just contact me!

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#12 2012-02-20 04:24:30

W.F.Cody
Member
From: Ghent
Registered: 2010-11-18
Posts: 125

Re: OpenBSD userland for Linux

I put up a first attempt for building obase

https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=56826

I get a compilation error... I will try to look into it as soon as possible but if someone else wants to join in they are welcome smile


My AUR packages
Any package of mine is up for grabs. If you think you could mantain it better - just contact me!

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#13 2012-06-01 14:25:37

W.F.Cody
Member
From: Ghent
Registered: 2010-11-18
Posts: 125

Re: OpenBSD userland for Linux

ANNOUNCEMENT:

I am happy to report that obase builds (at least on 64-bit)!!!!
https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=56826

TODO:
I will when I got time look at the obase-musl branc
Other than that... one thing that would be really cool is to have a custom "init" to chroot and boot from /opt/obase as root.

I have previously done some playing around with "gnu2busybox" and "gnu2heirloom" replacement packages, but those are of limited use since they need to work in a context where GNU userland is expected. Being able to boot into a "clean" environment without any such assumptions would actually be much nicer...

Does anyone have any experience with such stuff?
(probably alternative packages such as obase-fsh (to get all directories etc) will also be needed)

This could be a start on bootstrapping a (hopefully in the future) self-hosting BSD useland on linux smile
- some cool stuff that could be put in /opt/obase:
- musl libc (+ libbsd) + pcc self-hosting pair


My AUR packages
Any package of mine is up for grabs. If you think you could mantain it better - just contact me!

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