problem with fonts

lafayette · 2005-09-25 08:59:29

Hi all, I've read the wiki pages about fonts, but still I can't manage how to have good looking fonts on gnome. I've set 75dpi as resolution, that is the same value I get with xdpyinfo, but fonts seems like "outlined" , for example the "k" letter seems pretty blurry and difficult to read well

lafayette · 2005-09-25 09:34:14

maybe with this screenshot I can explain better: look at the fonts of the message, they seem to be slim

phrakture · 2005-09-26 15:08:57

Hmmm, that looks good to me. That's the kind of fonts I like. If this is only a firefox issues, go to about:config and turn off "freetype2" (search for it).

If that's what you want, the font wiki will tell you how to disable that in /etc/fonts/local.conf (which will do it globally)

lafayette · 2005-09-26 21:21:13

I've tried as you said to change that setting but the only thing I get was larger (not bigger, only larger) fonts, with the same bad quality...have no other idea of what to do (maybe copying fonts-related config from my old slack)

keevn7 · 2005-09-26 22:30:11

The fonts look fine to me as well. It is odd that anyone would call antialiased fonts "bad quality fonts", IMO. Perhaps it is the way your monitor displays them VS ours. What kind/size of monitor do you have?

phrakture · 2005-09-26 22:34:12

keevn7 wrote:

The fonts look fine to me as well. It is odd that anyone would call antialiased fonts "bad quality fonts", IMO. Perhaps it is the way your monitor displays them VS ours. What kind/size of monitor do you have?

I've actually come across alot of people saying that AA fonts were "blurry" and they liked the old bitmapped look. I don't know why. But then again, there's people who like the Motif look too. /me shrugs

Can you provide us with the following:
/etc/fonts/local.conf
/etc/X11/xorg.conf (only the modules and fonts sections)
xdpyinfo | grep dpi
and the about:config firefox settings for freetype

PS - Is this only in firefox that you hate these fonts, or everywhere? On your panels/titlebars you can always switch the fonts to something like an artwiz font.

cactus · 2005-09-26 23:19:42

gah. some of those fonts look blurry as hell.
I have always had font problems with arch, for some reason. *shrug*

I did find that they looked better when my resolution was higher. For whatever reason, the arch fonts looked worse at 1024x768 or lower. At 1280x1024, they were almost tolerable.

The font issue is probably the one thing keeping me from using arch as my desktop system (and keeping me on ubuntu). I don't have time to spend days fiddling trying to get fonts to work. Been there...done that...

Good thing servers dont need fonts.

shadowhand · 2005-09-26 23:29:24

A better resolution would be 96dpi.

lafayette · 2005-09-27 10:35:44

ok I'll start... here is fonts/local.conf (straight as downloaded from gnome.org/fonts)

<fontconfig>
        <!--  Enable sub-pixel rendering
        <match target="font">
                <test qual="all" name="rgba">
                        <const>unknown</const>
                </test>
                <edit name="rgba" mode="assign"><const>rgb</const></edit>
        </match>
         -->

        <alias>
                <family>serif</family>
                <prefer>
                        <family>Bitstream Vera Serif</family>
                </prefer>
        </alias>
        <alias>
                <family>sans-serif</family>
                <prefer>
                        <family>Bitstream Vera Sans</family>
                </prefer>
        </alias>
        <alias>
                <family>monospace</family>
                <prefer>
                        <family>Bitstream Vera Sans Mono</family>
                </prefer>
        </alias>
</fontconfig>

xorg.conf - modules

    Load        "dbe"      # Double buffer extension

# This loads the miscellaneous extensions module, and disables
# initialisation of the XFree86-DGA extension within that module.
    SubSection  "extmod"
      Option    "omit xfree86-dga"   # don't initialise the DGA extension
    EndSubSection

# This loads the font modules
    Load        "type1"
#    Load        "speedo"
    Load        "freetype"
    Load        "xtt"

# This loads the GLX module
    Load       "glx"
# This loads the DRI module
    Load       "dri"

then fonts section

    FontPath   "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/"
    FontPath   "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/TTF/"
    FontPath   "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/"
    FontPath   "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/CID/"
    FontPath   "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/"
    FontPath   "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/"
    FontPath   "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/local/"

for firefox, nothing changed from default. freetype is enabled.
thanks very much for help

uselpa · 2005-09-30 18:54:03

Do you like these (look at the screenshots at the bottom)?
http://www.homepages.lu/pu/beautiful.html

phrakture · 2005-09-30 20:04:50

uselpa wrote:

Do you like these (look at the screenshots at the bottom)?
http://www.homepages.lu/pu/beautiful.html

No, those fonts are icky

uselpa · 2005-09-30 20:09:14

I was asking lafayette...

lafayette · 2005-10-02 17:06:39

I didn't understand what that link is about. Anyway, I wanna make a little comparison: in the first shot there is sylpheed on my old slack, in the second sylpheed on arch. Is it possible to have the same look of fonts even here in arch? the fonts in first seem to be more rounded and "fat", not so thin and difficult to read as now. This is not to be meant as a comparison between distros. thanks again fof help

first (on slack)
[img=http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/4223/sylpheed5ik.th.png]

second (on arch)
[img=http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/892/sylpheednew3lp.th.png]

paperinik · 2005-10-02 19:15:50

For me, this .fonts.conf is the only file I add to enhance fonts:

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<!DOCTYPE fontconfig SYSTEM "fonts.dtd">
<fontconfig>
 <match target="font" >
  <edit mode="assign" name="hinting" >
   <bool>true</bool>
  </edit>
 </match>
 <match target="font" >
  <edit mode="assign" name="hintstyle" >
   <const>hintmedium</const>
  </edit>
 </match>
 <match target="font" >
  <edit mode="assign" name="rgba" >
   <const>rgb</const>
  </edit>
 </match>
 <match target="font" >
  <test compare="more" name="size" qual="any" >
   <double>0</double>
  </test>
  <test compare="less" name="size" qual="any" >
   <double>15</double>
  </test>
  <edit mode="assign" name="antialias" >
   <bool>false</bool>
  </edit>
 </match>
 <match target="font" >
  <test compare="more" name="pixelsize" qual="any" >
   <double>0</double>
  </test>
  <test compare="less" name="pixelsize" qual="any" >
   <double>18</double>
  </test>
  <edit mode="assign" name="antialias" >
   <bool>false</bool>
  </edit>
 </match>
</fontconfig>

[URL=http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=12nj1.png] 12nj1.th.png [/URL]

lafayette · 2005-10-02 22:05:19

I've tried to use your file in home dir, but things gone even worse...I'm getting crazy with this problem, I can't understand why the same font changes so much from a distro to another

paperinik · 2005-10-02 22:35:22

lafayette wrote:

I can't understand why the same font changes so much from a distro to another

Did you install ttf-ms-fonts?

keevn7 · 2005-10-02 22:44:54

lafayette wrote:

first (on slack)
[img=http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/4223/sylpheed5ik.th.png]
second (on arch)
[img=http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/892/sylpheednew3lp.th.png]

It looks to me like Slackware is using the autohinter. Try enabling that.

phrakture wrote:

uselpa wrote:
Do you like these (look at the screenshots at the bottom)?
http://www.homepages.lu/pu/beautiful.html
No, those fonts are icky

I concur.

paperinik wrote:

For me, this .fonts.conf is the only file I add to enhance fonts:

If that "enhances" fonts, then I do not want to enhance my fonts.

paperinik · 2005-10-02 22:56:27

keevn7 wrote:

If that "enhances" fonts, then I do not want to enhance my fonts.

Ok.

Centare · 2005-10-03 00:03:31

I find that the autohinter doesn't try as hard to fit fonts into an exact pixel grid, which usually results in fonts that look a bit rounder and fuller. Turning down the level of hinting also helps with the roundness/thickness.

Here's my $HOME/.fonts.conf :

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<!DOCTYPE fontconfig SYSTEM "fonts.dtd">
<fontconfig>
 <match target="font" >
  <edit mode="assign" name="hinting" >
   <bool>true</bool>
  </edit>
 </match>
 <match target="font" >
  <edit mode="assign" name="hintstyle" >
   <const>hintslight</const>
  </edit>
 </match>
 <match target="font" >
  <edit mode="assign" name="autohint" >
   <bool>true</bool>
  </edit>
 </match>
</fontconfig>

iBertus · 2005-10-03 00:31:40

That slack screenie is autohinted (notice the fat bold fonts). I like using the autohinter when possible, and disable it for bold fonts.

Centare · 2005-10-03 00:58:22

Oh, how interesting! I never thought of using the autohinter part time like that. Going to try it now.

lafayette · 2005-10-03 20:50:12

Thanks very much for help. All of you seem very experienced with fonts configuration and I feel a little ignorant about this topic. With the last .fonts.conf file, that enables autohinting, thing are going better. But where can I find all the options (documented and explained, if possible) about the contents of this xml config file? thanks very much

Centare · 2005-10-03 21:30:42

There's a manpage called "fonts-conf" that explains a lot of options, but I find it quite confusing to read. It takes a while to find what I want (like the no-autohinter-for-bold-text setting mentioned by iBertus).

iBertus · 2005-10-03 22:30:03

Taken from my local.conf:

<!--Do not autohint bold fonts-->
        <match target="font">
               <test name="weight" compare="more">
                       <const>medium</const>
               </test>
               <edit name="autohint" mode="assign">
                       <bool>false</bool>
               </edit>
        </match>

Theoden · 2005-10-03 22:44:34

paperinik wrote:

lafayette wrote:
I can't understand why the same font changes so much from a distro to another
Did you install ttf-ms-fonts?

What is the pkg name for that in the arch repositories?

--Theoden

Arch Linux

#1 2005-09-25 08:59:29

problem with fonts

#2 2005-09-25 09:34:14

Re: problem with fonts

#3 2005-09-26 15:08:57

Re: problem with fonts

#4 2005-09-26 21:21:13

Re: problem with fonts

#5 2005-09-26 22:30:11

Re: problem with fonts

#6 2005-09-26 22:34:12

Re: problem with fonts

#7 2005-09-26 23:19:42

Re: problem with fonts

#8 2005-09-26 23:29:24

Re: problem with fonts

#9 2005-09-27 10:35:44

Re: problem with fonts

#10 2005-09-30 18:54:03

Re: problem with fonts

#11 2005-09-30 20:04:50

Re: problem with fonts

#12 2005-09-30 20:09:14

Re: problem with fonts

#13 2005-10-02 17:06:39

Re: problem with fonts

#14 2005-10-02 19:15:50

Re: problem with fonts

#15 2005-10-02 22:05:19

Re: problem with fonts

#16 2005-10-02 22:35:22

Re: problem with fonts

#17 2005-10-02 22:44:54

Re: problem with fonts

#18 2005-10-02 22:56:27

Re: problem with fonts

#19 2005-10-03 00:03:31

Re: problem with fonts

#20 2005-10-03 00:31:40

Re: problem with fonts

#21 2005-10-03 00:58:22

Re: problem with fonts

#22 2005-10-03 20:50:12

Re: problem with fonts

#23 2005-10-03 21:30:42

Re: problem with fonts

#24 2005-10-03 22:30:03

Re: problem with fonts

#25 2005-10-03 22:44:34

Re: problem with fonts

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