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#1 2013-01-19 12:28:09

ezzetabi
Member
Registered: 2006-08-27
Posts: 943

The --needed default seems so weird to me... What is the reason?

There is a reason why pacman installs an non-updated package by default?
I can understand this behavior with the -U option, but with the -S seems strange.

Why this design decision?

(edit, typo)

Last edited by ezzetabi (2013-01-19 15:27:59)

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#2 2013-01-19 13:15:38

WorMzy
Forum Moderator
From: Scotland
Registered: 2010-06-16
Posts: 5,376

Re: The --needed default seems so weird to me... What is the reason?

Pardon?

Pacman installs updates because Arch is a rolling release distro. Partial upgrades are not supported. I don't understand where the --needed flag comes into your question.


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#3 2013-01-19 13:23:42

Trilby
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From: Massachusetts, USA
Registered: 2011-11-29
Posts: 14,024
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Re: The --needed default seems so weird to me... What is the reason?

I have to suspect there was a typo and the question may be why does pacman install non-updated packages.

If one has foo-10.1-1 installed and that is the current version then they do a `pacman -S widget foo bar` pacman will *reinstall* the same version of foo.

I don't know the design decisions behind this, but it is useful as - on occassion - something will go wrong such that one does not actually have a package properly installed even though it is in their package database.  It is easier to do `pacman -S borked-package` than to remove it then reinstall it.

Last edited by Trilby (2013-01-19 13:24:25)


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#4 2013-01-19 13:40:30

litemotiv
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Registered: 2008-08-01
Posts: 5,026

Re: The --needed default seems so weird to me... What is the reason?

Trilby wrote:

If one has foo-10.1-1 installed and that is the current version then they do a `pacman -S widget foo bar` pacman will *reinstall* the same version of foo.

Afaik -S just always installs the version that is in the sync db, so this could mean an updated version if one has done an -Sy before.


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#5 2013-01-19 13:45:51

Trilby
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From: Massachusetts, USA
Registered: 2011-11-29
Posts: 14,024
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Re: The --needed default seems so weird to me... What is the reason?

My example was not great - if one did a `pacman -Syu widget foo bar` and the currently installed version of foo was already the most up to date version, pacman would still reinstall it.  I'm guessing this is what the question is about.


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#6 2013-01-19 15:29:30

ezzetabi
Member
Registered: 2006-08-27
Posts: 943

Re: The --needed default seems so weird to me... What is the reason?

Sorry, It is  indeed  a typo. My question was about why --needed is not the default. It is seldom useful reinstall a package, but in most of the cases I experienced if I type "pacman -S a b c d e" I mean: install the missing packages.

Last edited by ezzetabi (2013-01-19 15:34:20)

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#7 2013-01-19 16:09:19

falconindy
Developer
From: New York, USA
Registered: 2009-10-22
Posts: 4,095
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Re: The --needed default seems so weird to me... What is the reason?

Because pacman does what you tell it to do. If you tell it to install a package, it's going to install the package. The deviating behavior is that if you tell it to install a package, don't install it if it's already installed.

I tend to think it's a sane default that presents no real harm.

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#8 2013-01-19 17:02:48

the sad clown
Member
From: 192.168.0.X
Registered: 2011-03-20
Posts: 833

Re: The --needed default seems so weird to me... What is the reason?

falconindy wrote:

Because pacman does what you tell it to do.

Exactly.  I think it would be more problematic if it didn't do what you explicitly told it to do.  Besides, it does warn you that it is a reinstall and not a new install and seeks your permission before performing the operation.  Can't ask for better functionality than that.


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#9 2013-01-19 17:31:30

ezzetabi
Member
Registered: 2006-08-27
Posts: 943

Re: The --needed default seems so weird to me... What is the reason?

I see your point. But even if I also use the word "install" what you are asking is to "Synchronize packages." But... oh well. It is not a big deal. When I install packages I use --needed and that's it.

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#10 2013-01-20 06:02:04

Allan
Developer
From: Brisbane, AU
Registered: 2007-06-09
Posts: 10,416
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Re: The --needed default seems so weird to me... What is the reason?

Why do you install packages that you have already installed?

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#11 2013-01-20 10:31:35

ezzetabi
Member
Registered: 2006-08-27
Posts: 943

Re: The --needed default seems so weird to me... What is the reason?

It usually happen when I am following the Wiki for something and I read: Ensure you have the following packages: A B C D and so I type pacman -S A B C D without checking if any of them were actually already installed.

It also happen when I am trying to compile something a package because I need different options or yaourt failed for some reason. I want to install the deps and write pacman --asdep -S A B C D.

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#12 2013-01-20 11:49:13

Cdh
Member
Registered: 2009-02-03
Posts: 1,098

Re: The --needed default seems so weird to me... What is the reason?

Simple scenario: Major update of kde, you don't know if the kde group has changed to include more packages now. So you do pacman -S kde --needed, because you don't want to reinstall every single kde package.


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