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#1 2013-05-04 05:36:30

bleomycin
Member
Registered: 2012-10-23
Posts: 20

KDE isn't very smooth on good hardware, what gives?

Hi everyone,

I've been attempting to switch to linux full time again for a few months now on the desktop and the only thing holding me back since tf2 was ported is how damn slow kde is. I'm on reasonably modern hardware, xeon E3-1230v2, 16GB ram, GTX 680 4GB, samsung 840 pro, 3x 30" monitors using the nvidia binary driver with twinview. I know my hardware can handle this. The problems i experience range from window re-sizing not being fluid, with noticeable lag, choppy scrolling in chromium, things like that which definitely should not happen. I experienced this exact behavior on my laptop as well i7, hd4000 graphics, 8GB ram (x1 carbon). Is there some default setting that causes this i'm just not aware of? I feel that there shouldn't be any lag in a desktop UI at this point. Thanks!

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#2 2013-05-04 06:24:49

Awebb
Member
Registered: 2010-05-06
Posts: 5,681

Re: KDE isn't very smooth on good hardware, what gives?

Define "lag". Try openbox to see if you experience the same lag. If so, you'll probably never like the latency on Linux, if not, we might have a driver/X configuration problem.

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#3 2013-05-04 06:37:20

bleomycin
Member
Registered: 2012-10-23
Posts: 20

Re: KDE isn't very smooth on good hardware, what gives?

As i said, noticeable choppiness when scrolling in chromium, if i grab the scroll bar and move quickly up and down it is not fluid. If i grab a window border to re-size the window, the act of re-sizing it is not smooth, if i drag quickly there is a very noticeable delay. At times the whole desktop will freeze, i'm completely unable to do anything when this happens. All of these symptoms have happened across multiple types of modern hardware, and it's limited to kde.

Last edited by bleomycin (2013-05-04 06:38:37)

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#4 2013-05-04 07:20:39

chord
Member
Registered: 2012-11-07
Posts: 121

Re: KDE isn't very smooth on good hardware, what gives?

bleomycin wrote:

All of these symptoms have happened across multiple types of modern hardware, and it's limited to kde.

I have a kde, xfce and cinnamon installed right now. The fastest of these three is kde. Noticeable faster and smoother then other two "lightweight" DEs. In both xfce and cinnamon I have the latency on window resizing and dragging, also my browser scrolls page content wavelike.
So I think your problem is not kde-related. It is should be something else. May be you need to make fresh minimal install.

P.S.
I'm using Intel core-i3 i2120, 4Gb RAM and  Nvidia GTX-550Ti

Last edited by chord (2013-05-04 07:31:58)

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#5 2013-05-04 08:05:00

gedgon
Member
From: Poland
Registered: 2011-01-27
Posts: 95

Re: KDE isn't very smooth on good hardware, what gives?

I feel that there shouldn't be any lag in a desktop UI at this point

Until Wayland (hopefully), there will be lag, so...
- disable compositing ( http://youtu.be/nNK0YIqawuY )
- change ( https://www.archlinux.org/packages/?q=qtcurve ) GTK and Qt theme (avoid Oxygen, or at least turn off animation)

$oxygen-settings

- until fixed, install https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/cairo-nvidia/ ( https://devtalk.nvidia.com/default/topi … nt=3722160 )

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#6 2013-05-04 11:14:39

jukkan
Member
Registered: 2010-09-08
Posts: 39

Re: KDE isn't very smooth on good hardware, what gives?

I'm afraid you can't have good performance on a composited desktop on Linux, at least not until Wayland is usable.

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#7 2013-05-04 12:11:36

Awebb
Member
Registered: 2010-05-06
Posts: 5,681

Re: KDE isn't very smooth on good hardware, what gives?

That's rubbish, jukkan. This is why I was asking the OP to try openbox (which is 2D only) to see if there is a fundamental problem with his configurations or if it is limited to KDE. I have a smooth KDE on my ~2 years old desktop, there are no lags and it feels as smooth as Windows 7.

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#8 2013-05-04 15:52:17

eticre
Member
Registered: 2011-10-15
Posts: 54

Re: KDE isn't very smooth on good hardware, what gives?

Desktop effects is active?
In system-settings -> desktop-effects -> advanced
try changing compositing ,graphic-system and opengl-option.

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#9 2013-05-04 16:18:26

jukkan
Member
Registered: 2010-09-08
Posts: 39

Re: KDE isn't very smooth on good hardware, what gives?

Awebb wrote:

That's rubbish, jukkan. This is why I was asking the OP to try openbox (which is 2D only) to see if there is a fundamental problem with his configurations or if it is limited to KDE. I have a smooth KDE on my ~2 years old desktop, there are no lags and it feels as smooth as Windows 7.

Out of curiosity (and because it is relevant to the case), on which gpu and driver stack do you get this result? Myself I have tried both proprietary drivers and nouveau on nvidia 9800gt, and the (desktop) performance on neither is up to par to Windows's. I use both Windows and Linux regularly and I always notice that the former is faster. And this is not on stock settings, I've tried to tweak Linux to no end. Plus there are the people (including Xorg devs) saying that X is unnecessarily complex in many ways..

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#10 2013-05-04 16:23:23

masteryod
Member
Registered: 2010-05-19
Posts: 433

Re: KDE isn't very smooth on good hardware, what gives?

bleomycin wrote:

xeon E3-1230v2, 16GB ram, GTX 680 4GB, samsung 840 pro, 3x 30" monitors using the nvidia binary driver with twinview

c2d e6300 (two cores at 1.8GHz), integrated nvidia 7100, 2GB of DDR2 800MHz, WD Blue HDD and KDE is flying... something is wrong with your configuration. I've got akonadi disabled of course, I don't use any of kdepim package, I disabled blur because I don't like it and it's heavy effect plus couple tweaks more but even full blown KDE without any tweaking shouldn't be noticeable on your hardware.

First things first:
1) what's the output of: glxinfo | grep render
2) check top/atop or system monitor and see if something is eating your CPU
3) did you tried on single monitor?

About lag, it can be "animations". Default KDE settings are way to slow:
system settings -> desktop effects -> animation speed (change to fast or very fast)

Also, oxygen is "slow" by default there like a gazillion effects enabled:
alt+f2 -> type "oxygen-settings" -> tweak animations to your liking (or disable them all like I do)

Last edited by masteryod (2013-05-04 16:37:12)

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#11 2013-05-04 16:25:59

Awebb
Member
Registered: 2010-05-06
Posts: 5,681

Re: KDE isn't very smooth on good hardware, what gives?

@jukkan
On one machine, it's a 470GTX with the binary blob. The other has a 7600GT, binary blob. Both run KDE smooth and without lags.  Third has an ION2, binary blob as well, but this one is a little unresponsive sometimes, because it has only a 1.66GHz dualcore Atom. They all have 4-8GB RAM and I do not use a swap partition. I did not really configure much in xorg.conf.d, the two desktops both use 1920x1080@60Hz via DVI. The ION2 outputs to a 42" 1080p screen, also at 60Hz. This one has some trouble, as I said, but not with drawing the windows or the composite effects, this happens mostly under heavy load, which is basically every kind of load.

@bleomycin
I just read your post again. You have 3 screens attached? Have you tried only two or one? Does the lag go away?

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#12 2013-05-04 18:05:29

gedgon
Member
From: Poland
Registered: 2011-01-27
Posts: 95

Re: KDE isn't very smooth on good hardware, what gives?

Awebb wrote:

[...]there are no lags and it feels as smooth as Windows 7.

Because everyone perceives differently (for example this is smooth window resizing, according to KWin man developer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tghx_th-u_Y ) could you clarify one thing? When you moving window around quite fast, is it lagging slightly behind cursor (with OpenGL compositing)?

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#13 2013-05-04 21:19:19

Awebb
Member
Registered: 2010-05-06
Posts: 5,681

Re: KDE isn't very smooth on good hardware, what gives?

This is why I asked you to define "lag".

No lag whatsoever on all platforms when moving windows.. An obvious lag on rezising on the ION2 and 7600GT, similar to the video you posted, but not on the 470GTX.

Last edited by Awebb (2013-05-04 21:23:53)

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#14 2013-05-04 22:34:48

gedgon
Member
From: Poland
Registered: 2011-01-27
Posts: 95

Re: KDE isn't very smooth on good hardware, what gives?

Awebb wrote:

This is why I asked you to define "lag"

Me? There is an example in my first post https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php … 1#p1267811
http://youtu.be/nNK0YIqawuY

Awebb wrote:

No lag whatsoever on all platforms when moving windows

Can you record 5sec at 60 or at least 30 fps?

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#15 2013-05-04 23:14:53

nuc
Member
Registered: 2012-04-26
Posts: 116

Re: KDE isn't very smooth on good hardware, what gives?

gedgon wrote:

Until Wayland (hopefully), there will be lag, so...
- disable compositing ( http://youtu.be/nNK0YIqawuY )

Nonsense. Compositing is important for fluentness and less workload because it enables hardware acceleration. Without compositing there will be tearing and unfluent window resizing because the CPU has to render it. With Hardware acceleration, the GPU does the job.
As long as a graphics card supports OpenGL (and the drivers!), compositing is always to be preferred (also performance wise).

For xfce4 I suggest using compton compositor, because it gives the best performance (and prevents tearing).

PS: Although on the other side gedgon might be right because X is a pile of shit...

Last edited by nuc (2013-05-04 23:18:45)

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#16 2013-05-04 23:57:25

gedgon
Member
From: Poland
Registered: 2011-01-27
Posts: 95

Re: KDE isn't very smooth on good hardware, what gives?

nuc wrote:

Nonsense. Compositing is important for fluentness and less workload because it enables hardware acceleration. Without compositing there will be tearing and unfluent window resizing because the CPU has to render it. With Hardware acceleration, the GPU does the job.

Oh, come on. I agree only with tearing. Resizing is much, much faster without compositing.

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#17 2013-05-05 00:12:34

boast
Member
Registered: 2010-09-28
Posts: 219

Re: KDE isn't very smooth on good hardware, what gives?

masteryod wrote:

About lag, it can be "animations". Default KDE settings are way to slow:
system settings -> desktop effects -> animation speed (change to fast or very fast)

Also, oxygen is "slow" by default there like a gazillion effects enabled:
alt+f2 -> type "oxygen-settings" -> tweak animations to your liking (or disable them all like I do)

not sure if all that would help choppy chromium scrolling


Asus M4A785TD-V ;; Phenom II X4 @ 3.9GHz ;; Ripjaws 12GB DDR3-1600 ;; 128GB Samsung 830 ;; MSI GTX460 v2 w/ blob ;; Arch Linux + KDE 4.x

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#18 2013-05-05 00:29:29

gedgon
Member
From: Poland
Registered: 2011-01-27
Posts: 95

Re: KDE isn't very smooth on good hardware, what gives?

boast wrote:

not sure if all that would help choppy chromium scrolling

Of course not. Animation speed can save some user time ;) Disabled oxygen animations will save some CPU cycles and will help with jerky animation when focusing windows.

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#19 2013-05-05 00:50:42

ewaller
Administrator
From: Pasadena, CA
Registered: 2009-07-13
Posts: 17,588

Re: KDE isn't very smooth on good hardware, what gives?

bleomycin wrote:

...using the nvidia binary driver with twinview. I know my hardware can handle this.

Are you certain you are using that driver, have you read your /var/log/Xorg.0.log in order to prove it?

(Just a sanity check)


Nothing is too wonderful to be true, if it be consistent with the laws of nature -- Michael Faraday
Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the things no one can imagine. -- Alan Turing
---
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#20 2013-05-05 06:14:50

smakked
Member
From: Gold Coast , Australia
Registered: 2008-08-14
Posts: 420

Re: KDE isn't very smooth on good hardware, what gives?

I have a lowly GT640 with the nouveau driver and my KDE is smooth and fast all effects enabled , moving windows and resizing, uploading video now

Video DOne

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAekuA5sAE8&

Last edited by smakked (2013-05-05 06:34:49)


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#21 2013-05-05 08:40:50

blackout23
Member
Registered: 2011-11-16
Posts: 780

Re: KDE isn't very smooth on good hardware, what gives?

I also can't complain about lags on KDE with my i7 2600K and GTX 580.

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#22 2013-05-05 10:07:35

gedgon
Member
From: Poland
Registered: 2011-01-27
Posts: 95

Re: KDE isn't very smooth on good hardware, what gives?

smakked wrote:

I have a lowly GT640 with the nouveau driver and my KDE is smooth and fast all effects enabled , moving windows and resizing, uploading video now

Video DOne

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAekuA5sAE8&

Thank you. Don't get me wrong, but you have just confirmed what I have said about perception. Look how cursor a window lagging behind http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/5346/lagp.png
Im glad that it's fast and smooth for you. For me it's just sluggish.

Last edited by gedgon (2013-05-05 10:49:37)

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#23 2013-05-05 10:12:01

smakked
Member
From: Gold Coast , Australia
Registered: 2008-08-14
Posts: 420

Re: KDE isn't very smooth on good hardware, what gives?

Its the same on windows 7 on my wifes PC , but in reality who moves windows around that fast ?


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#24 2013-05-05 10:21:09

gedgon
Member
From: Poland
Registered: 2011-01-27
Posts: 95

Re: KDE isn't very smooth on good hardware, what gives?

smakked wrote:

but in reality who moves windows around that fast ?

It's not about moving windows, it's about lag, which is "everywhere", again, the same example http://youtu.be/nNK0YIqawuY but I understand that this is not a problem for most people.

Last edited by gedgon (2013-05-05 10:41:34)

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#25 2013-05-05 10:28:23

Shark
Member
From: /dev/zero
Registered: 2011-02-28
Posts: 684

Re: KDE isn't very smooth on good hardware, what gives?

I have 1.8 Ghz Dual Core, Intel GMA 4500M, 2 GB RAM laptop and my KDE is running almost smoothly. My cursor is slightly faster than windows when moving them and resizing them results in simillar situation ... but nothing terrible. Compiz give me better results but not significant.

Overall i must say KDE runs faster then other DE.


If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be. Now put foundations under them.
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