Some questions before I try installing Arch for 1st time?

gigenieks · 2013-06-12 08:28:13

I have partitioned my hard drive with Gparted. Here is how it looks:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g295/ … g~original

My first question is about GRUB2. As I have GRUB2 already installed on sdb (120 GB) HDD, I don't need to install it once again, right? After I've installed Arch boot, I simple boot in Ubuntu and use:

sudo update-grub

Right?

Next, selecting a mirror, I have quite fast internet. I can skip this, right?

Move on, locale. Can someone explain in simple manner what is this?
"You may uncomment more lines than just English (US), as long as you choose their UTF-8 encoding."
Only thing which concerns me is how do I get Latvian (apostrophe variant) keyboard layout to work in Arch. So I can write specific characters like ā,č, š, ē etc
When I installed Ubuntu I just choose Latvian >> apostrophe and voila I can type latvian language characters.

At the very end, it says to type:

umount /mnt/{boot,home,}

I'll not have home partion. Also no boot partion? Do I need to change code here?

Finally, if something goes wrong, I get an error and don't know what I should do (also I can't google it, because I have no laptop or PC available). Simply, I'm somewhere middle in my installation. What should I do? Just reboot PC pressing button? Type some command?

I think this is all for now..

-- mod edit: read the Forum Etiquette and only post thumbnails http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/For … s_and_Code [jwr] --

crazyg4merz · 2013-06-12 10:40:05

gigenieks wrote:

I have partitioned my hard drive with Gparted. Here is how it looks:
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g295/ … g~original
My first question is about GRUB2. As I have GRUB2 already installed on sdb (120 GB) HDD, I don't need to install it once again, right? After I've installed Arch boot, I simple boot in Ubuntu and use:
sudo update-grub
Right?
Next, selecting a mirror, I have quite fast internet. I can skip this, right?
Move on, locale. Can someone explain in simple manner what is this?
"You may uncomment more lines than just English (US), as long as you choose their UTF-8 encoding."
Only thing which concerns me is how do I get Latvian (apostrophe variant) keyboard layout to work in Arch. So I can write specific characters like ā,č, š, ē etc
When I installed Ubuntu I just choose Latvian >> apostrophe and voila I can type latvian language characters.
At the very end, it says to type:
umount /mnt/{boot,home,}
I'll not have home partion. Also no boot partion? Do I need to change code here?
Finally, if something goes wrong, I get an error and don't know what I should do (also I can't google it, because I have no laptop or PC available). Simply, I'm somewhere middle in my installation. What should I do? Just reboot PC pressing button? Type some command?
I think this is all for now..

-- mod edit: read the Forum Etiquette and only post thumbnails http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/For … s_and_Code [jwr] --

1. U need to install grub2 on your local disk once again, because/dev/sdb is maybe your install media? u need to boot into your computer not your external disk, don't u?
2. Mirror is not about internet speed. Even if your internet is fast, but if the server is not optimized, your internet will pick the first line on the list first and so on, so if the first line is far away from u, it need some time to connect, logically :-)
3. U can choose as many locales as u can and choose which one u want to boot into, for typing, u can install ibus or any other alternative, search the wiki for this.
4. U just need to unmount the partitions u mounted at the beginning of the installation process. That's the logic :-)
5. What kind of error did u get? U can just shutdown and reboot to the installation media, remount and repeat the process where the error happened and continue the steps after it.
Good luck :-)

gigenieks · 2013-06-12 11:01:48

"You need to install GRUB2.., because /dev/sdb is maybe your install media?" --- no clue what you mean?! /dev/sdb is my hard drive which contains Ubuntu + 20 GB ext4 partition for Arch + ntfs partition for data (music, movies etc). During Ubuntu installation grub was installed on /dev/sdb.

"You need to boot into your computer not your external disk, don't you?" --- what external disk??

"..your internet will pick the first line on the list first and so on,.." - Huh??

"You can choose as many locales as you can and choose which one u want.." --- Sure. Basically you say locale is locale and you can install as many as you wish. This doesn't answer any of my questions in original post.

GloW_on_dub · 2013-06-12 11:24:08

gigenieks wrote:

I have partitioned my hard drive with Gparted. Here is how it looks:
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g295/ … g~original
My first question is about GRUB2. As I have GRUB2 already installed on sdb (120 GB) HDD, I don't need to install it once again, right? After I've installed Arch boot, I simple boot in Ubuntu and use:
sudo update-grub
Right?

You could skip it yes, it should work, but you may need to update the grub again in case of arch update.

Next, selecting a mirror, I have quite fast internet. I can skip this, right?

Always better to get the fastest and nearest isn't it ? but it is totally optional, it works without this step.

Move on, locale. Can someone explain in simple manner what is this?
"You may uncomment more lines than just English (US), as long as you choose their UTF-8 encoding."
Only thing which concerns me is how do I get Latvian (apostrophe variant) keyboard layout to work in Arch. So I can write specific characters like ā,č, š, ē etc
When I installed Ubuntu I just choose Latvian >> apostrophe and voila I can type latvian language characters.

Locale is about the "display" language. With en_US.UTF-8 you are able to display any character defined in UTF8 with an english interface
If you want your all system to display latvian translation, you may use :
lv_LV.UTF-8 UTF-8

You are asking about inputting latvian character.
You are suposed to set the Keymap to fit your particular layout.
However i have not been able to find the correct keymap you want to use.
So use just a standard qwerty keymap during installation, then you will be able to use :

setxkbmap lv apostrophe

you may see here and here

At the very end, it says to type:
umount /mnt/{boot,home,}
I'll not have home partion. Also no boot partion? Do I need to change code here?

You need to unmount it considering you had mount it in the begining as it is written
You can make a single partition installation , but if you want to really use your arch system and not just test it,
I greatly recommend a multiple partiton layout as it is described in the dedicated section.

Finally, if something goes wrong, I get an error and don't know what I should do (also I can't google it, because I have no laptop or PC available). Simply, I'm somewhere middle in my installation. What should I do? Just reboot PC pressing button? Type some command?

Yau may have noticed that arch installation is sperated in two phases. first installation then configuration (aka after first boot from partition) .
If something goes wrong during installation, you may type reboot and retry installation right.
Is something goes wrong during configuration...well it's an already working system, try harder to configure it

Cthulhu82 · 2013-06-12 11:35:27

Hi Gigenieks. For your GRUB question, sorry I never test and don't know (maybe there is something in the wiki or older forum post). So I will move directly to next question.

gigenieks wrote:

Next, selecting a mirror, I have quite fast internet. I can skip this, right?

Even with fast internet, if the mirror you choose is bad, connection will be bad. I recommand you generate the list using this : https://www.archlinux.org/mirrorlist/.

gigenieks wrote:

Move on, locale. Can someone explain in simple manner what is this?
"You may uncomment more lines than just English (US), as long as you choose their UTF-8 encoding."
Only thing which concerns me is how do I get Latvian (apostrophe variant) keyboard layout to work in Arch. So I can write specific characters like ā,č, š, ē etc
When I installed Ubuntu I just choose Latvian >> apostrophe and voila I can type latvian language characters.

Locales are the settings for your system and applications language (or languages). Ubiquity (the Ubuntu graphic installer) configure locale and keyboard for you. In Arch, you need to do it manually, by editing the right files. You'll have to chose the system language to use, then the keyboard.

gigenieks wrote:

At the very end, it says to type:
umount /mnt/{boot,home,}
I'll not have home partion. Also no boot partion? Do I need to change code here?

I think you can just type it.

umount /mnt/

It will unmount your main partition.

gigenieks wrote:

Finally, if something goes wrong, I get an error and don't know what I should do (also I can't google it, because I have no laptop or PC available). Simply, I'm somewhere middle in my installation. What should I do? Just reboot PC pressing button? Type some command?

I strongly recommand that you find an other computer or a smartphone to surf on the Wiki in case of problem. Don't reboot, you'll just mess the system and risk that even ubuntu doesn't work anymore. At least, if you really cannont have a computer, print the begginer guide, and part of the wiki you think will be usefull (as the local settings page, for instance ).

Cthulhu82 · 2013-06-12 11:37:00

GloW_on_dub was faster than me (and more accurate).

Trilby · 2013-06-12 11:39:12

The installation iso comes with a web browser - so you could google it. Last I check it was elinks.

gigenieks · 2013-06-12 11:39:28

OK, I think I'm ready to give it a try.

Last edited by gigenieks (2013-06-12 11:45:56)

GloW_on_dub · 2013-06-12 11:58:11

@Cthulu82 : Faster maybe, but i missed the umount /mnt

@gigenieks : I didn't realize you will have no acces to a computer during installation
Unless you print half the wiki, i don't know how you will be able to remember every single command you need to type.

You may find something to display the wiki.

Last edited by GloW_on_dub (2013-06-12 12:14:20)

drcouzelis · 2013-06-12 12:46:33

gigenieks wrote:

As I have GRUB2 already installed on sdb (120 GB) HDD, I don't need to install it once again, right?

Which operating system do you want to have control GRUB2? You need to decide which is your primary operating system, Arch Linux or Ubuntu.

selecting a mirror, I have quite fast internet. I can skip this, right?

In the past, there was no default mirror, so no, you could not skip this. I don't know about the current Arch Linux installation process. Either way, I recommend choosing a mirror that is fast for you.

At the very end, it says to type:
umount /mnt/{boot,home,}
I'll not have home partion. Also no boot partion? Do I need to change code here?

Do you know what "umount /mnt/{boot,home,}" means? Do you know why it's important to run that command?

Don't run a command if you don't know what it means!

Finally, if something goes wrong, I get an error and don't know what I should do (also I can't google it, because I have no laptop or PC available). Simply, I'm somewhere middle in my installation. What should I do? Just reboot PC pressing button? Type some command?

As Trilby said, the Arch Linux live CD comes with a web browser (either elinks, links, or lynx...), so you can use the Internet while installing Arch Linux.

Last edited by drcouzelis (2013-06-12 12:47:40)

gigenieks · 2013-06-12 13:16:07

OK, I'm back in Ubuntu.

1) I had to reboot my 1st Arch installation because I used:

arch-chroot /mnt /bin/bash

instead of

arch-chroot /mnt

2nd installation went fine, I think. Because this was 2nd attempt to install Arch double entry was made in /etc/fstab:
see picture

I did not install grub. So:

exit
umount /mnt
reboot

Start Ubuntu, do:

sudo update-grub

Voila I get Arch menu in my grub.

Starting Arch I got this --->
check picture
Before I used Ctrl+Alt+Del for restart I tried some commands see here
This:

ERROR: bla bla bla
Bailing out, you are on your own. Good luck.

Made me laugh!!

Trilby · 2013-06-12 13:22:30

It didn't say "bla bla bla", in contrast, it gave a very informative error message. If you want help solving problems you should share those error messages with your would be helpers.

I don't use grub2, it is far to complicated for my tastes, but the problem is in the boot loader configuration. Grub tries to automate many things for you, but with that automation comes some assumptions - it doesn't always make the right assumptions. It seems to have assumed your root partition is dev/sda2, is this correct? It has also detected that partition as ntfs, is this correct?

andrekp · 2013-06-12 13:49:24

As a side matter, It is perfectly fine using Ubuntu's grub install to administer your other O/S boots.

There is one potential issue that you should know about, however:

Some people who do this, at some time, have found that the OS-Prober doesn't find the Arch installation. The jury seems to be out as to why this happens, because when it does, we just blame Ubuntu and ignore it. :-)

The way to fix/prevent it is simple:
In Ubuntu, find your /etc/lsb-release file. Make a version of that in your Arch /etc/ folder (edited appropriately). That is something that helps the OS-Prober "find" another linux. If it finds that file, it will see the linux install. (It's not the only way, and is perhaps not the root of the problem, but it works as a simple fix).

Alternatively, if you mount your Arch / partition in Ubuntu before running update-grub, that usually works as well.

Finally, you should know that while Ubuntu needs to have grub updated when ubuntu updates, the same is not true for Arch (or Windows). So, if you update the Arch kernel, you do NOT need to log into Ubuntu and update-grub. IF you only have the Ubuntu install that cares, you can actually just take your menu entries for your non-Ubuntu O/S, put them in the 40-custom file in /etc/grub.d/ and disable running OS-Prober entirely. It keeps things simpler. (beyond what I want to type. Just google making custom menu entries in grub. I think the Ubuntu forum had a nice tutorial on it. )

Good luck!

Trilby · 2013-06-12 13:57:32

andrekp, that seems like good information, but I don't think it's directly relevant for this issue. The grub config in unbuntoo has detected arch just fine and boots the kernel successfully - it has just added faulty root partition to the kernel parameters.

andrekp · 2013-06-12 14:22:21

Trilby,

Understood, and I have no desire to drag this OT. I just know that it was an issue for me and has been for others administering grub from elsewhere. So I was just passing some info that WILL be needed at some point. It was a necessary pre-emptive FYI.

(And I also directly addressed a couple of misconceptions from other posts)

Last edited by andrekp (2013-06-12 14:23:53)

gigenieks · 2013-06-12 17:02:20

Trilby wrote:

It didn't say "bla bla bla", in contrast, it gave a very informative error message.

You misunderstand me... I just found it funny - "error" all in capital letters and the message "you are on your own. Good luck." - Interesting error message.

..
.., but the problem is in the boot loader configuration. Grub tries to automate many things for you, but with that automation comes some assumptions - it doesn't always make the right assumptions.
1) It seems to have assumed your root partition is dev/sda2, is this correct?
2) It has also detected that partition as ntfs, is this correct?

Yes.
No, its ext4.

andrekp wrote:

Some people who do this, at some time, have found that the OS-Prober doesn't find the Arch installation.
The way to fix/prevent it is simple:
In Ubuntu, find your /etc/lsb-release file. Make a version of that in your Arch /etc/ folder (edited appropriately). That is something that helps the OS-Prober "find" another linux. If it finds that file, it will see the linux install. (It's not the only way, and is perhaps not the root of the problem, but it works as a simple fix).

How do I edit properly?? Can you help me?

Not sure, what I should do now?!

Last edited by gigenieks (2013-06-12 17:05:21)

drcouzelis · 2013-06-12 17:13:53

gigenieks wrote:

Trilby wrote:
It didn't say "bla bla bla", in contrast, it gave a very informative error message.
You misunderstand me... I just found it funny

I understood what you meant. I like fun little open source things like that. Did you know, in the default GNOME icon theme version 2.28, the SVG trashcan icon has a little gray line on it which, if you zoom in about 8000x, says "Microsucks"?

andrekp wrote:
Some people who do this, at some time, have found that the OS-Prober doesn't find the Arch installation.
The way to fix/prevent it is simple:
In Ubuntu, find your /etc/lsb-release file. Make a version of that in your Arch /etc/ folder (edited appropriately). That is something that helps the OS-Prober "find" another linux. If it finds that file, it will see the linux install. (It's not the only way, and is perhaps not the root of the problem, but it works as a simple fix).
How do I edit properly?? Can you help me?
Not sure, what I should do now?!

In Ubuntu, look at the text file "/etc/lsb-release". Now, in Arch Linux, create the file "/etc/lsb-release" with the same information, but tailored for Arch Linux instead of Ubuntu.

gigenieks · 2013-06-12 17:18:39

DISTRIB_ID=Ubuntu
DISTRIB_RELEASE=13.04
DISTRIB_CODENAME=raring
DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Ubuntu 13.04"

Not sure what would be Arch equivalent!?

drcouzelis · 2013-06-12 17:37:12

gigenieks wrote:

DISTRIB_ID=Ubuntu
DISTRIB_RELEASE=13.04
DISTRIB_CODENAME=raring
DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Ubuntu 13.04"

Not sure what would be Arch equivalent!?

https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=145875

teateawhy · 2013-06-12 18:14:27

giginieks wrote:

1) I had to reboot my 1st Arch installation because I used:
arch-chroot /mnt /bin/bash
instead of
arch-chroot /mnt

 arch-chroot /mnt /bin/bash

Should this be changed to /usr/bin/bash ?

drcouzelis · 2013-06-12 18:50:31

teateawhy wrote:

 arch-chroot /mnt /bin/bash 
Should this be changed to /usr/bin/bash ?

Ooh, good catch. I just updated it to "/usr/bin/bash". The "/bin" change has been already been added to the live CD, right?

...but why is that information even in the Beginner's Guide? The default would just put you in a zsh, correct? What beginner would be going through the Beginner's Guide, read "arch-chroot /mnt", and think to themselves, "You know, this is nice and all, but what would be great is if I could chroot and use Bash instead..."?

The more I think about it the more it makes me mad.

cfr · 2013-06-12 23:16:27

I am not sure it should be changed.

$ grep bash /etc/shells 
/bin/bash

Moreover, a recent thread or bug (I forget which) established that this is intended. So setting your shell as /usr/bin/bash will prevent you from logging in. I have no idea if this affects chrooting but it would make sense to keep it as the canonical path, wouldn't it?

WonderWoofy · 2013-06-12 23:22:45

I have to agree with cfr here. It won't prevent you from logging into a chroot (you don't log into a chroot anyway), but I think that it should match what is in /etc/shells as not to confuse the user. I'd hate to have a whole bunch of threads with people asking why they can't log in... they set their shell to /usr/bin/bash...

The live iso has not been updated with the new /usr merge. It was actually intentionally created just before the /usr merge as to avoid any potentially unforseen bugs that may have come with it. This is what Pierre indicated on the mailing list anyway.

I have also seen Falconindy mention several times that the use of /bin/bash should continue and will always work with Arch Linux. I think that this relates closely to the suggestions of replacing the shebangs in the install scripts with /usr/bin/bash, from which that discussion first originated.

teateawhy · 2013-06-13 06:23:34

Thanks cfr and WonderWoofy. This was a only question, and i didn't change the wiki, but i changed it back to /bin/bash now that this is clear.

gigenieks · 2013-06-13 07:00:36

OK, step (or 2) back please, I'm getting overload with information. The more I'm trying to understand the more confused I get...

I'm not sure, but can't double entry in /etc/fstab confuse Ubuntu's bootloader?!
Wiki of fstab:

The /etc/fstab file contains static filesystem information. It defines how storage devices and partitions are to be mounted and integrated into the overall system.

In post #11 I provided with error image I get trying to load Arch:

":: mounting '/dev/sda2' on real root
mount: unknown filesystem type 'ntfs' "

I also created separate thread in ubuntu forums and they asked for my Boot-Info
http://paste.ubuntu.com/5760505/

In the meantime gonna check link provided in post #19...

Edit:

...then do the following in your Arch system:
1). create a text file in Arch: /etc/lsb-release

I don't have there a folder named 'lsb-release'. Should I create one?

Last edited by gigenieks (2013-06-13 07:22:15)

Arch Linux

#1 2013-06-12 08:28:13

Some questions before I try installing Arch for 1st time?

#2 2013-06-12 10:40:05

Re: Some questions before I try installing Arch for 1st time?

#3 2013-06-12 11:01:48

Re: Some questions before I try installing Arch for 1st time?

#4 2013-06-12 11:24:08

Re: Some questions before I try installing Arch for 1st time?

#5 2013-06-12 11:35:27

Re: Some questions before I try installing Arch for 1st time?

#6 2013-06-12 11:37:00

Re: Some questions before I try installing Arch for 1st time?

#7 2013-06-12 11:39:12

Re: Some questions before I try installing Arch for 1st time?

#8 2013-06-12 11:39:28

Re: Some questions before I try installing Arch for 1st time?

#9 2013-06-12 11:58:11

Re: Some questions before I try installing Arch for 1st time?

#10 2013-06-12 12:46:33

Re: Some questions before I try installing Arch for 1st time?

#11 2013-06-12 13:16:07

Re: Some questions before I try installing Arch for 1st time?

#12 2013-06-12 13:22:30

Re: Some questions before I try installing Arch for 1st time?

#13 2013-06-12 13:49:24

Re: Some questions before I try installing Arch for 1st time?

#14 2013-06-12 13:57:32

Re: Some questions before I try installing Arch for 1st time?

#15 2013-06-12 14:22:21

Re: Some questions before I try installing Arch for 1st time?

#16 2013-06-12 17:02:20

Re: Some questions before I try installing Arch for 1st time?

#17 2013-06-12 17:13:53

Re: Some questions before I try installing Arch for 1st time?

#18 2013-06-12 17:18:39

Re: Some questions before I try installing Arch for 1st time?

#19 2013-06-12 17:37:12

Re: Some questions before I try installing Arch for 1st time?

#20 2013-06-12 18:14:27

Re: Some questions before I try installing Arch for 1st time?

#21 2013-06-12 18:50:31

Re: Some questions before I try installing Arch for 1st time?

#22 2013-06-12 23:16:27

Re: Some questions before I try installing Arch for 1st time?

#23 2013-06-12 23:22:45

Re: Some questions before I try installing Arch for 1st time?

#24 2013-06-13 06:23:34

Re: Some questions before I try installing Arch for 1st time?

#25 2013-06-13 07:00:36

Re: Some questions before I try installing Arch for 1st time?

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