Bootloader on GPT play hide & seek on Samsung Series 7 Ultra

foohey · 2013-08-13 08:46:19

Hi !

I have a Samsung Series 7 Ultra (NP740U3E) and installed Arch with GPT, LVM and Luks.

I have disabled secure boot, switched UEFI to CSM.

But I'am unable to run grub in one shot ->

The BIOS wrote:

All boot options are tried. Press <F4> key to recover with factory image using Recovery or any other keys for next boot loop iteration.

The hackish way to run grub is to plug the usb key (Arch iso) and press <F4> while the error message is on screen. The laptop reboot in recovery mode (but hard drive has no recovery anymore)... After that, I can show my grub installation and boot Arch !

This behavior sounds familiar to someone ?

I tried the same installation with virtualbox (on my desktop) and grub works without issues

ps: (x)ubuntu, crunchbang, linux mint are working, I don't think the laptop is bricked

Last edited by foohey (2013-08-13 16:57:31)

rufus · 2013-08-13 09:43:38

@ foohey the fact of the matter is that GRUB is an ooboontoo thing and is known to be very finicky
especially with Arch and anything non-debian so given how finicky Grub is youll need to post more specifics for us to help
or try incorporating Syslinux or another boot manager into your config...........

foohey · 2013-08-13 10:31:57

Same scenario for syslinux.

@rufus, sorry if I missing something. I've not slept that night. I don't want a cheesburger but just a few crumbs for resolve that issue

srs5694 · 2013-08-13 16:20:10

foohey wrote:

I have a Samsung Series 7 Ultra (NP740U3E) and installed Arch with GPT, LVM and Luks.
I have disabled secure boot, switched UEFI to CSM.

If you intend to dual-boot with the existing Windows 8 installation, you should not use BIOS/CSM/legacy-mode boot. It's almost always easier to dual-boot with both OSes booting in the same mode (EFI/UEFI or BIOS/CSM/legacy), and it's usually easier to install an OS in the same mode in which you'll boot it. There are exceptions to this rule, but they generally involve working around firmware bugs or limitations in an OS's installation procedures. (The infamous Samsung bricking problem has been dealt with in recent kernels and so shouldn't be an issue, although I don't recall the exact kernel versions in which the various fixes have appeared.)

But I'am unable to run grub in one shot ->
The BIOS wrote:
All boot options are tried. Press <F4> key to recover with factory image using Recovery or any other keys for next boot loop iteration.
The hackish way to run grub is to plug the usb key (Arch iso) and press <F4> while the error message is on screen. The laptop reboot in recovery mode (but hard drive has no recovery anymore)... After that, I can show my grub installation and boot Arch !

It's unclear to me precisely what you've done to get to this point, or even what "this point" is. It sounds as if you're saying that you've installed Arch but can't get its boot loader to appear except by using GRUB on the installer medium, but I'm far from certain of that. Please elaborate about what you've done and what the problem is. Also, if you have installed Arch, knowing more about that installation would be helpful. At a minimum, knowing the contents of the partition table (as reported by parted or gdisk) would be helpful, and it's imperative to know if you're doing an EFI/UEFI-mode or a BIOS/CSM/legacy-mode installation. You might also consider running the Boot Info Script and posting a link to the RESULTS.txt file that it generates; that will provide a wealth of information about partitioning, boot loader setup, and related details.

rufus wrote:

the fact of the matter is that GRUB is an ooboontoo thing and is known to be very finicky
especially with Arch and anything non-debian

GRUB is used by most of the mainstream distributions, including RHEL/CentOS/Fedora and SUSE/OpenSUSE, not just Ubuntu and other Debian derivatives. That said, I agree that GRUB is finicky; but it is the mainstream boot loader for Linux, so dismissing it as if it were marginalized is misleading.

foohey · 2013-08-13 16:53:27

srs5694 wrote:

foohey wrote:
I have a Samsung Series 7 Ultra (NP740U3E) and installed Arch with GPT, LVM and Luks.
I have disabled secure boot, switched UEFI to CSM.
If you intend to dual-boot with the existing Windows 8 installation, you should not use BIOS/CSM/legacy-mode boot. It's almost always easier to dual-boot with both OSes booting in the same mode (EFI/UEFI or BIOS/CSM/legacy), and it's usually easier to install an OS in the same mode in which you'll boot it.

No, only Arch.

It's unclear to me precisely what you've done to get to this point, or even what "this point" is. It sounds as if you're saying that you've installed Arch but can't get its boot loader to appear except by using GRUB on the installer medium, but I'm far from certain of that. Please elaborate about what you've done and what the problem is. Also, if you have installed Arch, knowing more about that installation would be helpful. At a minimum, knowing the contents of the partition table (as reported by parted or gdisk) would be helpful, and it's imperative to know if you're doing an EFI/UEFI-mode or a BIOS/CSM/legacy-mode installation. You might also consider running the Boot Info Script and posting a link to the RESULTS.txt file that it generates; that will provide a wealth of information about partitioning, boot loader setup, and related details.

It's the most strange thing.
I succeeded to boot grub installed on GPT (so my installation) accidentally. This is not grub of installation media, but something that help the bios to boot on GPT.

Scenario: I press power button without usb key and the BIOS fail to find a bootable partition. The message is « All boot options are tried. Press <F4> key to recover with factory image using Recovery or any other keys for next boot loop iteration. » . At this point pressing F4 do nothing expect reboot and fail.

When I plug the usb key (arch iso) during the fail message AND I press F4, the laptop reboot and the BIOS boot on GPT and grub (or syslinux) appear from nowhere !

BUT

if I do a new restart, the usb key is booting... :monkey:

I'm currently reinstalling W8 & samsung tools to see if there is a bios update. I paste more informations about partition table/bootinfoscript ASAP

Last edited by foohey (2013-08-13 17:07:24)

Vins · 2013-08-25 19:19:48

foohey wrote:

srs5694 wrote:
foohey wrote:
I have a Samsung Series 7 Ultra (NP740U3E) and installed Arch with GPT, LVM and Luks.
I have disabled secure boot, switched UEFI to CSM.
If you intend to dual-boot with the existing Windows 8 installation, you should not use BIOS/CSM/legacy-mode boot. It's almost always easier to dual-boot with both OSes booting in the same mode (EFI/UEFI or BIOS/CSM/legacy), and it's usually easier to install an OS in the same mode in which you'll boot it.
No, only Arch.
It's unclear to me precisely what you've done to get to this point, or even what "this point" is. It sounds as if you're saying that you've installed Arch but can't get its boot loader to appear except by using GRUB on the installer medium, but I'm far from certain of that. Please elaborate about what you've done and what the problem is. Also, if you have installed Arch, knowing more about that installation would be helpful. At a minimum, knowing the contents of the partition table (as reported by parted or gdisk) would be helpful, and it's imperative to know if you're doing an EFI/UEFI-mode or a BIOS/CSM/legacy-mode installation. You might also consider running the Boot Info Script and posting a link to the RESULTS.txt file that it generates; that will provide a wealth of information about partitioning, boot loader setup, and related details.
It's the most strange thing.
I succeeded to boot grub installed on GPT (so my installation) accidentally. This is not grub of installation media, but something that help the bios to boot on GPT.
Scenario: I press power button without usb key and the BIOS fail to find a bootable partition. The message is « All boot options are tried. Press <F4> key to recover with factory image using Recovery or any other keys for next boot loop iteration. » . At this point pressing F4 do nothing expect reboot and fail.
When I plug the usb key (arch iso) during the fail message AND I press F4, the laptop reboot and the BIOS boot on GPT and grub (or syslinux) appear from nowhere !
BUT
if I do a new restart, the usb key is booting... :monkey:
I'm currently reinstalling W8 & samsung tools to see if there is a bios update. I paste more informations about partition table/bootinfoscript ASAP

Any updates on this?

I have a dual-boot setup with Win 8 and Arch linux. Arch is running fine in UEFI mode, but samsung-laptop module dosn't support EFI mode anymore. I'd like to keep windows 8 and run Arch linux in legacy mode. I can boot the Arch Linux ISO image in legacy mode from a USB key, buy no way so far to boot from the SSD. I have tried to follow the instruction on the wiki to install grub in bios-mode (with the Bios Partition) bu it seems it is not detected by the UEFI firmware or my rEFInd.

Vins

srs5694 · 2013-08-26 15:20:37

Vins wrote:

I have a dual-boot setup with Win 8 and Arch linux. Arch is running fine in UEFI mode, but samsung-laptop module dosn't support EFI mode anymore. I'd like to keep windows 8 and run Arch linux in legacy mode. I can boot the Arch Linux ISO image in legacy mode from a USB key, buy no way so far to boot from the SSD. I have tried to follow the instruction on the wiki to install grub in bios-mode (with the Bios Partition) bu it seems it is not detected by the UEFI firmware or my rEFInd.

In rEFInd, you must edit refind.conf: Uncomment the "scanfor" line and ensure that "hdbios" is among the options. That's not guaranteed to work, though; some systems lack the necessary CSM support, and even if it's present, the firmware must be configured to enable that support. Thus, you may need to fiddle with your firmware settings to get this to work. Unfortunately, I can't be more specific, since such details vary greatly from one computer to another.

Vins · 2013-08-26 16:06:23

Thanks for the suggestions.

I already have the scanfor enabled with hdbios and biosexternal options. rEFInd can detect and boot USB drive in Legacy mode, but not the internal SSD. At this stage everything suggests that the BIOS or the SSD firwmare don't have support for booting internal mSATA drive in BIOS mode. Which is quite strange as I've seen people with similar laptop (NP730U3E) being able to boot in that configuration.

I'll try to find someone with the same laptop model/sdd/BIOS version and see is they can properly boot from the SSD with "CSM only".

Thanks again,
Vins

srs5694 · 2013-08-26 19:42:42

First, you don't have a BIOS; you have an EFI with BIOS compatibility module (aka "CSM" or "legacy mode"). I know that manufacturers are mis-applying the term "BIOS" to their EFIs, but IMHO that does everybody a disservice in the long run, since it sets up expectations of BIOS-like behavior when in fact that's often not the case.

Second, the SSD firmware is unlikely to be an issue. I've never heard of disk firmware preventing it from booting. Bootability is controlled largely by the motherboard's (or disk controller's) firmware and by follow-on software (boot managers, boot loaders, etc.).

My suspicion is that you need to enter your firmware's setup utility and look for options related to boot devices. You may be able to find a list of boot devices and add the SSD to that list, after which rEFInd should recognize it.

Another option is to install your BIOS-mode boot loader in the MBR of your hard disk rather than in the MBR of the SSD. If your firmware recognizes the hard disk as bootable, that should get things started. You might need to fiddle with the boot loader configuration, and perhaps even install additional components (like a BIOS Boot Partition) on the spinning disk, but this might get things working.

Arch Linux

#1 2013-08-13 08:46:19

Bootloader on GPT play hide & seek on Samsung Series 7 Ultra

#2 2013-08-13 09:43:38

Re: Bootloader on GPT play hide & seek on Samsung Series 7 Ultra

#3 2013-08-13 10:31:57

Re: Bootloader on GPT play hide & seek on Samsung Series 7 Ultra

#4 2013-08-13 16:20:10

Re: Bootloader on GPT play hide & seek on Samsung Series 7 Ultra

#5 2013-08-13 16:53:27

Re: Bootloader on GPT play hide & seek on Samsung Series 7 Ultra

#6 2013-08-25 19:19:48

Re: Bootloader on GPT play hide & seek on Samsung Series 7 Ultra

#7 2013-08-26 15:20:37

Re: Bootloader on GPT play hide & seek on Samsung Series 7 Ultra

#8 2013-08-26 16:06:23

Re: Bootloader on GPT play hide & seek on Samsung Series 7 Ultra

#9 2013-08-26 19:42:42

Re: Bootloader on GPT play hide & seek on Samsung Series 7 Ultra

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