My two cents

Jagged · 2003-11-19 07:27:10

Allright, first a disclaimer. No one is making you read this, you don't have to. No one is making you do anything on your computer. That said, let's begin:

What is ArchLinux?
ArchLinux is "an i686 optimized linux distribution" according to the front page of http://archlinux.org/ . And according to the Official ArchLinux Documentation, one of the thing you need to install ArchLinux is "a working knowledge of Linux and your system, especially your hardware"

In order to get the most out of this fine distribution, that clause is key. We all have troubles now and again with various drivers or new hardware we throw into a box. But ArchLinux is not designed for new linux users, not in the least. You must understand there is a tradeoff here. In order to provide a sleek, fast OS, you must eliminate a lot of 'fluff.' Anyone with a decent level of competence working on a linux system should be able to use ArchLinux..

It is what you make it.
Nothing more, nothing less. This distribution will not hold your hand, feed you, or walk your dog. The package management tools are just that, tools. It's your responsibility to use these tools to create your system. Can't find the software you like in the package lists? Create one. There's good documentation on how to create a package, and the ABS tree has plenty of examples on how to do this.

Which brings us to:
Documentation!! Read the docs, manpages, HOWTO's, FAQ's. How do I make a package?!?! Did you even bother checking the http://archlinux.org/ front page? It has a link to the Official Documentation which gives a most excellent overview on how to build a package. But that's not enough! Did you try the man pages? I don't know how to compile xyz from source! ... source tarballs don't have a README and INSTALL for decorations you know.

Why can't the maintainer...
Do what now? You do realize these people do this in their free time for various reasons. They are not legally responsible to you, they don't ::have:: to listen to you. Maintaining software packages is a lot of work. If your favorite software releases a new version, and you don't see a package for it right away, don't complain. Eventually it will be updated. If it's that urgent, get the PKGBUILD from ABS and build it yourself. Respect the maintainers and developers, instead of asking "can you xyz for me?" you should ask "can I xyz for you"

How about feeping creature xyz?
ArchLinux doesn't like feeping creatures, it eats them in a daily cronjob

Pacman should xyz!!!!
What version is ArchLinux? 0.5
0.5 < 1.0 ? True
ArchLinux has yet to get an actual 1.0 release, give the poor developers time (I hear they also accept money and beer).

Hey I wrote this cool extension to tool xyz
Yea good. Try talking to the developers about your idea first... why have two people inventing the wheel?

To sum everything up:
1) ArchLinux isn't for linux newbies. If you need a GUI to configure your network or install your OS, don't use Arch
2) ArchLinux won't hold your hand. You make it what it is.
3) Respect for the developers/admins/maintainers
4) Don't try to force your ideas on other people, just because you like feeping creatures doesn't mean we do.
5) ArchLinux is still young
6) If you want to help, talk to someone about it first.

dariball · 2003-11-19 14:43:02

very nice text jagged....

hits the point very well

jf/ · 2003-11-20 01:55:40

hey this definitely looks like a good candidate for a sticky...

Xentac · 2003-11-20 04:28:56

I'd like to make a small addition to this excellent post.

There are many ways to ask for things, but the polite ones will probably result in things being done sooner.

jf/ · 2003-11-20 04:52:23

Xentac wrote:

I'd like to make a small addition to this excellent post.
There are many ways to ask for things, but the polite ones will probably result in things being done sooner.

i think for the sake of us all then, could u make this a sticky?

tsykoduk · 2004-03-13 17:40:27

Clap Clap Clap.... 8)

Xentac · 2004-03-13 18:46:42

ffderrick wrote:

waa, waa, waa
Stop your crying, you like the attention.

How can you say that when you don't even know him?

Not only that, but he's no longer here to defend himself.

I'm not looking for a fight, especially in a sticky thread, but I think it's unfair and not in good taste. Not to mention untrue.

Jagged · 2004-03-27 22:13:15

Hell, you weren't even around for the situation which caused me to post the two threads that later became sticky.

P.S. Xentac - I'll be able to get back into the swing of things by October/November or so

w0rm · 2004-03-31 16:05:49

applauds

jak · 2004-05-07 16:40:41

ffderrick wrote:

waa, waa, waa ... Stop your crying, you like the attention.

Would be nice if there was a way delete these hit and run users, and their posts. I wasted time trying to figure out who was talking about what, and then I realized ffderrick only had 3 posts. He's probably long gone by now.

dtw · 2004-08-03 09:18:53

...but now the post has been deleted and it is impossible to follow 2/3rds of the thread! Joy!

skoal · 2004-10-06 05:36:44

dibblethewrecker wrote:

...but now the post has been deleted and it is impossible to follow 2/3rds of the thread! Joy!

haha, well said...but, back to my observation..

This is my first time reading this sticky post, but here's my 3 cents, keep the change.

I disagree with:

1) ArchLinux isn't for linux newbies. If you need a GUI to configure your network or install your OS, don't use Arch

Legend: "->" (imply), "!" (not)

Newbie !-> incapable of using or understanding Arch distribution, or learning Linux (in general) with Arch as your tutor.

When I first used Suse/RedHat back in 96, I hardly had a GUI to aid me, and even moreso, to illustrate the following point, had 1/100th the documeantation we have now (either on-line or within these forums, Wiki, etc.). Back in 96 was my first exposure to Linux.

With a little effort, yes, effort, I got it going in a reasonable amount of time. And, I would be hard pressed to compare those days with what is "automatically" taken care of for you now with the Arch distro.

I think the statement (I disagree with) should be substituted with "Arch linux is for newbies, unless you're new to learning".

Mith · 2004-10-06 14:55:49

how about when you reach a certain level of knowledge you feel superior to those who don't have that knowledge and that leads to arrogance and maybe that's why "newbies" are not wanted b/c they ask way too many questions.. questions that seem so simple and easy that they are unworthy/annoying to answer
BUT I think arch linux is as good as any other linux distri if you want to get into linux, it's probably better than those "we give you a graphical-conf-program that does everything for you" distributions

Dusty · 2004-10-06 16:05:01

Mith wrote:

how about when you reach a certain level of knowledge you feel superior to those who don't have that knowledge and that leads to arrogance and maybe that's why "newbies" are not wanted b/c they ask way too many questions.. questions that seem so simple and easy that they are unworthy/annoying to answer

Crikey, this isn't gentoo.org! We have a newbie forum for a reason, after all.

Its the people that don't know how to search the forum and wiki that we have trouble with, but its because we need a bigger search button...

More on topic, I like the Arch forums because they keep me humble. I suppose I could have your arrogance for having superior knowledge to the 'newbies', but with all the gurus around here that know so much more than me (especially about topics for which I am ignorant, such as networking) remind me that I have a lot to learn. We all do.

Dusty

skoal · 2004-10-06 21:09:14

Mith wrote:

how about when you reach a certain level of knowledge you feel superior to those who don't have that knowledge and that leads to arrogance and maybe that's why "newbies" are not wanted b/c they ask way too many questions.. questions that seem so simple and easy that they are unworthy/annoying to answer [...]

Yes, that used to be the typical response and attitude in the Linux Community. However, in general, you don't experience that same mindset here in these forums.

As Linux grows, the pollution of "newbie h8'as" will be no different than sampling from a pool of Windows supremacists. At least, that's been my observation over the past few years.

Jagged · 2004-10-18 01:55:45

I had made that post a long time ago, and after dealing with quite a few people who had chosen ArchLinux as their first plunge into Linux, talk about learning to swim by jumping into the ocean. The post was not meant to discourage anyone (well, actually in truth it was), but more to say that one needs to be serious with their efforts in finding information for themselves before asking the same pointless questions over and over.

Arch Linux

#1 2003-11-19 07:27:10

My two cents

#2 2003-11-19 14:43:02

Re: My two cents

#3 2003-11-20 01:55:40

Re: My two cents

#4 2003-11-20 04:28:56

Re: My two cents

#5 2003-11-20 04:52:23

Re: My two cents

#6 2004-03-13 17:40:27

Re: My two cents

#7 2004-03-13 18:46:42

Re: My two cents

#8 2004-03-27 22:13:15

Re: My two cents

#9 2004-03-31 16:05:49

Re: My two cents

#10 2004-05-07 16:40:41

Re: My two cents

#11 2004-08-03 09:18:53

Re: My two cents

#12 2004-10-06 05:36:44

Re: My two cents

#13 2004-10-06 14:55:49

Re: My two cents

#14 2004-10-06 16:05:01

Re: My two cents

#15 2004-10-06 21:09:14

Re: My two cents

#16 2004-10-18 01:55:45

Re: My two cents

Board footer