A humble suggestion for registering to post in the forum

clh · 2014-10-17 15:08:03

First post. I'm stuck trying to install archlinux on my mac mini, and thought I'd ask on the forum. The forum registration page requires one to paste the result of the following command:

date -u +%V$(uname)|sha256sum|sed 's/\W//g'

Now, alls I have is a Mac. I ran the command in the Terminal - there's no sha256sum. I tried installing it with homebrew (a package manager). No such formula. I played around with the openssl command. No sha256 support that I could find. Finally found 'shasum -a' which I substituted for sha256sum and got the answer "fcf0af60eddb10200edfbebe14e5dde7db333c64ff740e50550bddc41be66d -". I pasted that value (both with and without the trailing non-hex characters) into the answer box and was told "Sorry, your answer was wrong. Try again!"

Finally found a post that suggested substituting $(uname) with $(echo Linux), and that (in combination with my shasum change) produced the magic number.

If this simply a way to weed out the bots, might I suggest a more platform-independent approach? There may be more people than just I who need to hit the forums but have not yet installed Linux.

Chap

ukhippo · 2014-10-17 16:09:28

Or you could just boot from the arch install media. That will get you a shell where you can obtain the answer.

Scimmia · 2014-10-17 16:16:43

From https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_Linux:
"To summarize: Arch Linux is a versatile and simple distribution designed to fit the needs of the competent Linux® user."

If you "have not yet installed Linux", you aren't the target audience for Arch in the first place.

clh · 2014-10-17 16:23:50

Scimmia wrote:

From https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_Linux:
"To summarize: Arch Linux is a versatile and simple distribution designed to fit the needs of the competent Linux® user."
If you "have not yet installed Linux", you aren't the target audience for Arch in the first place.

Goodness! I have Linux (Ubuntu) installed in a VM at work, and have worked with several distros off an on since 1998. Just don't currently have it at home.

ewaller · 2014-10-17 16:25:11

clh wrote:

First post....If this simply a way to weed out the bots, might I suggest a more platform-independent approach? There may be more people than just I who need to hit the forums but have not yet installed Linux.
Chap

But, you did succeed Welcome to the club.

One can also use a site such as http://jslinux.org/. It implements a Linux box in Javascript. It has all of the required tools and coughs up the correct answer.
As a moderator, I can say that the filter does do a remarkable job of keeping not only bots away, but does a good job on most spammers as well.

clh · 2014-10-17 16:25:17

ukhippo wrote:

Or you could just boot from the arch install media. That will get you a shell where you can obtain the answer.

There's the rub. I am having trouble booting from the .iso disk I created, so I wanted to get help from the forum.

lucke · 2014-10-17 17:18:09

This subject returns every now and then. It's one of the reasons some people call this community elitist, I believe ;-) I myself don't think it's easy to devise a nice platform-independent (shell-independent, etc.) version. Moreover, target audience of these forums or determined users shouldn't have that much trouble registering. That said, in this obviously elitist community we "show the code", so, if you have an idea for a better (yet similar) test, maybe it would be implemented.

clh · 2014-10-17 17:41:57

lucke wrote:

This subject returns every now and then. It's one of the reasons some people call this community elitist, I believe ;-) [...] target audience of these forums or determined users shouldn't have that much trouble registering.

I didn't know this community was considered elitist. That's disappointing, because Arch came highly recommended from a geek friend, but it's an important bit of information to know up front. I'm sure (I hope) there are other distros with different levels of expectations, that still manage to keep to the Keep It Simple principle. Thank you for your frankness.

lucke · 2014-10-17 17:55:37

Some people do consider this community elitist, I believe, because they think such a test is there to keep them out. It doesn't work in some shell(s) either, evil test. But it works in links or other text browsers, I believe, unlike CAPTCHA.

Scimmia · 2014-10-17 18:06:22

clh wrote:

Scimmia wrote:
From https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_Linux:
"To summarize: Arch Linux is a versatile and simple distribution designed to fit the needs of the competent Linux® user."
If you "have not yet installed Linux", you aren't the target audience for Arch in the first place.
Goodness! I have Linux (Ubuntu) installed in a VM at work, and have worked with several distros off an on since 1998. Just don't currently have it at home.

See, that's a bit different and a valid issue. I was just going by the "have not yet installed Linux" line.

As for as the "elitism", yes, there is that perception in some parts of the community. As Arch targets competent Linux users, we tend to expect users to be able to read the documentation, use google, and help themselves. Many times you'll see forum posts answered with a simple link to a section of the wiki or a suggestion to check the man page. The community's refusal to help people who don't want to put in some effort can be interpreted as elitism, or it can be interpreted as respecting the user's abilities and responsibilities.

clh · 2014-10-17 18:17:17

Let me just respond before I go: I did not expect to post a "humble suggestion" in a --Newbie Corner-- (for god's sake) and be told, in essence, "you don't belong here." But it does make it clear that this is not where I belong, or want to belong. A few hours wasted. No biggee. On to different pastures.

ewaller · 2014-10-17 18:17:45

For one, I don't consider us to be elitist. Although we position ourselves as a distribution for the more seasoned Linux users, we have many users who started as rank beginners. And, they are welcome. We we are not are hand holders. We expect everyone to do their research before asking questions. Perhaps some members of the community take that a little too far. It is understood that a beginner does not have the experience on which to draw, but they can still ask informed question. When someone asks a question that demonstrates a lack of initiative in the reasearch department, it is likely they will be provided a link and asked to read the fine manual.

As to you, I get the feeling you will do just fine here. In all seriousness, welcome.

Edit: Clearly, you and I were posting at the same time. That might change the tone of what I wrote when you read it. But, I stand by it.

Last edited by ewaller (2014-10-17 18:19:27)

lucke · 2014-10-17 18:27:54

I don't think anybody wanted to say you are not welcome here, clh. Surely not me. And I do find this community quite welcoming (it's the only Linux/web community where I have been active for 10 years) and don't think of it as elitist, I am just pointing out that some people do find it elitist because they can't get past a test or their "this test isn't perfect" statements don't produce a perfect test. And yes, we often work like Linus - you have an itch, something annoys you, show us a better solution. I was being ironic when saying "obviously elitist".

That's why I usually don't post in topics like this and just stick to troubleshooting/helping newbies ;-)

Stick around, make up your own mind.

Last edited by lucke (2014-10-17 18:32:35)

clh · 2014-10-17 18:52:06

Well, that sounds like a good idea. Besides, I already have a question (which was the real purpose of this exercise to begin with) in the Installation forum that I wasn't able to delete :-). If that yields up enough help to actually get Arch installed, we'll see how it goes.

scryan · 2014-10-17 21:38:45

Elitist is not the right word... But your expected to do you part too.

I honestly think the "The Arch Way" wiki lays it out pretty damn well.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/The_Arch_Way

Read that, if it sounds good you will likely enjoy arch. If it sounds bad, yeah arch may be bad for you.

Truth is the wiki is fantastic, and dedicated people have spent an amazing amount of time putting it together... So for ALMOST EVERYTHING there is detailed step by step information that basically will fix your problem. You just need to read it, understand it and possibly even research on your own the parts you don't understand.
When people just come to the forum and ask to be told directly instead, yeah we may seem elitist expecting they know enough to figure it out on their own... But that is only because the community already wrote out a really really detailed explanation for them, but they just wanted someone else to do the work/troubleshooting for them. Its a bit weird to ask stranger to care more about your problems then you do

But, detailed and specific questions are met with wonderful and fantastic help. This is the most stable and functional distro/operating system I have ever run (in part because after "building" it its pretty easy to fix.)

This ISN'T a newbie distro in that its not for people who just want a working computer for minimal effort... That doesn't mean its hard mean or bad, but it does mean its targeted towards serious users who want to be able to build and fix their own system. A certain standard is expected (and I really like that), its not hard to meet it.... But if you don't want anything expected of you you may not want arch. Reading a paying attention can make it more or less an easy and fruitful experience for even novice users however.

Arch Linux

#1 2014-10-17 15:08:03

A humble suggestion for registering to post in the forum

#2 2014-10-17 16:09:28

Re: A humble suggestion for registering to post in the forum

#3 2014-10-17 16:16:43

Re: A humble suggestion for registering to post in the forum

#4 2014-10-17 16:23:50

Re: A humble suggestion for registering to post in the forum

#5 2014-10-17 16:25:11

Re: A humble suggestion for registering to post in the forum

#6 2014-10-17 16:25:17

Re: A humble suggestion for registering to post in the forum

#7 2014-10-17 17:18:09

Re: A humble suggestion for registering to post in the forum

#8 2014-10-17 17:41:57

Re: A humble suggestion for registering to post in the forum

#9 2014-10-17 17:55:37

Re: A humble suggestion for registering to post in the forum

#10 2014-10-17 18:06:22

Re: A humble suggestion for registering to post in the forum

#11 2014-10-17 18:17:17

Re: A humble suggestion for registering to post in the forum

#12 2014-10-17 18:17:45

Re: A humble suggestion for registering to post in the forum

#13 2014-10-17 18:27:54

Re: A humble suggestion for registering to post in the forum

#14 2014-10-17 18:52:06

Re: A humble suggestion for registering to post in the forum

#15 2014-10-17 21:38:45

Re: A humble suggestion for registering to post in the forum

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