Migrating from Arch to Dual Boot (Arch 64 + Win8.1 64).

Jauch · 2014-10-30 21:40:45

Hello my friends.

I used to have a dual boot system (MBR, if I'm not mistaken), with Arch Linux on hda (1TB) and Windows 7 on hdb (300GB). I did this installation more than 3 years ago.
The disk with windows died recently, and because I need it for work (virtual machine is not an option), I decided to make a "refresh" on my machine.

I bought two new disks, a 240GB SSD and a 3TB HDD.

What I would like to do is to install both Windows 8.1 and Arch Linux on the SSD disk (100GB for Windows, 140GB for Arch, my main system), and use the 3TB (for Arch) and the 1TB (for Windows) disks as storage.

While doing a research on how to do the installation, some questions arised.

I know that I must (or at least should, for make the processe easier) install Windows first. I will install in the EFI mode, as my machine alread has it.

1. Which boot loader I should use when installing Arch Linux?
From what I'd read, to keep things simple, I should opt for a bootloader like gummyboat, that will recognise the Windows without manual intervantion. Is this right?

2. Will I have problems with the Windows Update?
I read here https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=187194 that when Windows update, it mess with the EFI partition and will make the Arch stop booting (the boot will enter directly on Windows). Is this correct? Is this related only to "automatic" updates (and manual updates can be made without problem)? There is any way to avoid this?

3. After installing both systems, will Arch Linux recognize my 1TB disk?
My 1TB disk has my actual Arch linux installation, and data. I would like to copy this data to the 3TB disk and then, under Windows, format it to serve as my Windows storage disk.
I can do this BEFORE installing the system, or after. But the second option causes me some concerning regarding the rights and so on, so that I do not know if my "new" system" will be able to copy things from the old system.
Should I make the copy before installing Arch Linux?

I think this is it.
If you could helping me with these questions and pointing problems/flaws with my approach, I'll be immensely gratefull.

Chhers,
Eduardo.

elken · 2014-10-31 13:15:32

Unless you're 100% set on using EFI, 1 & 2 can be avoided. I've been running Arch & Win8.1 for a year and a bit with 0 issues on either, installed the typical way on a UEFI system in legacy mode.

As for 3, I don't understand what problems you'll think you will encounter.

Jauch · 2014-11-01 14:01:49

Hello elken,

Thanks for your reply.

Regarding point 3, I was afraid, due my little knowledge and experience, that I would have to do some kind of "chroot" and so on, to copy things from my old HDD disk (1TB), that has my actual linux system, to the new HDD.
But I decided to do this beforehand, so I just installed the 3TB disk and copied everything on my actual system to it. So, no problems here anymore. When I had installed the new system on the SSD, I can format the 1TB disk without problems.

Regarding the point 1 & 2, I don't think it is a good idea, having a system that works fully with UEFI, to keep things in legacy mode. Or, at least, I think that shouldn't have any problem to install averything UEFI if I will install a new system (as is the case).

Changing the boot loader is not a problem at all.
But I'm afraid that Windows 8.1 will "mess" with my system when an update is installed, as it was said in the other topic. For sure I don't want this.

I was doing some tests and seems that my old disk can be live. It is possible that the problem is with one of the power conectors (a contact problem, maybe). And so, I can also try to use the old windows 7 that is installed in the old disk. I'll test this.

At this point, what keeps me from do tests, is that I need to buy some adaptors for the 2 new disks to be able to install them on my computer, because the doks are all 5.25 and I don't have any adapter (5.25->3.5/2.5) left, and it is not being easy to find one... lol

Cheers,
Eduardo

elken · 2014-11-01 14:03:48

Wiki thread on moving to new hardware.

RE: 1 & 2, unless you can personally justify it, there's no reason to go out of your way to use UEFI. As I said, been using both for a year and a bit with 0 problems on legacy.

Jauch · 2014-11-02 15:56:25

Hello elken

While I could maintain the system under BIOS/MBR, and I don't had any problem with this in the last 2 years, I want to change my system to EFI/GPT.

I found that Windows under EFI must be under GPT (As pre-installed Windows 8.1), while under BIOS it must be under MBR. So, as my system is (will be) a DUAL one, and It is not a MAC system (that would allow to the EFI/GPT loader to chain a BIOS/MBR, I have to choose between EFI/GPT or BIOS/MBR.

Because my system can be setup under EFI/GPT, and because sooner or later BIOS/MBR will start to disappear, I want to change it now. This will mke it easier in the future to upgrade my system, I think.
Not to mention that GPT has some nice advantages over MBR. For example, GPT can handle my 3TB disk without problems, while MBR not. (At least, fdisk wasn't able to deal with it).

So, you could say that despite BIOS/MBR being fully funcional right now, it's a matter of personal taste (and learning) to me, this desire to completely change my system to EFI/GPT

For now, I decided to mantain the LINUX and WINDOWS separated (as they are now), i.e., on separate disks. This should solve the problem of windows messing with the boot loader when upgrading (point 2).
About the bootloader, I think I'll change to gummybot, to test it. I think I could still use grub 2 (I'm not entirely sure), but Gummybot seems simple and fair enough.

As an aside, I think I will try to migrate my system to the new HDF using rsync and making the necessary adjustments (like in fstab).
It seems not to difficult, and there are many documents out there on how to do this.

When I finish, I'll post here how I did and what worked and what not

Cheers,
Eduardo

Jauch · 2014-11-15 21:47:17

Update.

For now, I let fall the idea of a UEFI boot. I was unable to create a USB bootable with EFI.
The system migration using rsync worked well. I had a problem with permissions of my home folder, but after some research I solved it.

My old Windows system is not booting. Anyway, I'll put Windows 8 in another disk with MBR and so I think I'll do not have problems in booting it.
Let's see.

Thanks,
Eduardo.

elken · 2014-11-17 21:38:32

I did say it wasn't worth it. Maybe next time trust the person with experience.

cedeel · 2014-11-17 23:00:37

For what it's worth, I've been dual booting Arch and Windows 7 UEFI for a while and I've never encountered any issues.
Even if my mobo's EFI implementation is a bit wonky - I have to replace the Windows bootloader which works just fine. It might also be the reason why I haven't seen anything able to mess it up.

elken · 2014-11-17 23:02:09

My original point was if you can't personally justify it, there's no reason to go out of the way to enable it.

Jauch · 2014-11-18 23:45:15

Hi, elken

On the past, when I had an optical drive, I was able to boot in EFI with a Arch Linux installation media CD.
As for now, I had to use an USB installation media, and was not able to create a "bootable" USB with EFI directly from my Arch installation (because it wasn't an EFI/GPT installation).

Probably, If I had used another distro installation/LiveCD on a USB that was already prepared to boot in EFI and chroot to my arch linux installation, I would be able to do what I would like to have done. Or I could have follow others experiences and make the usb installation in Windows.

Just because EFI/GPT will be the standard in the very near future and MBR will be abandoned. And because I like to learn. And just because of the fun of it

I didn't it for two reasons only. I don't want to have to go for Windows/other distros as a necessary step to install Arch and I was in a "hurry". So, because I wanted to move my system to a SDD that do not required GPT partition, and because I'll install Win8 on a drive that also do not require GPT (otherwise it would be mandatory to boot in EFI), I simply moved the system e am using BIOS/MBR, as before.

But I find unacceptable that Arch Linux dos not have a properly (and simple) way to create a USB installation media capable of boot in EFI. If I can, I'll try to remedy this in the near future.
Just for the fun

For me, personally, this is totally justified

cedeel,
From what I found, if Arch Linux and Windows are in different partitions, everything works fine. But it seems that the problem of the boot loader being "overwrite" happens only on Windows 8...

Cheers,
Eduardo

elken · 2014-11-18 23:54:59

I'd be surprised if BIOS was completely phased out in either of our lifetimes, so there's no worry of that. Same with MBR. It's not up to Arch to babysit everyone with everything they try and do. If it's too hard, move to Ubuntu.

There are plenty of ways to do it as documented in the wiki page, with about 10 resources linked at the bottom.

Buddlespit · 2014-11-19 01:56:32

@Jauch- The easiest way, I have found, to make my USB key EFI compatable was to 'dd' the Arch .img to the USB.
@elkin- BIOS firmware isn't on any modern motherboard made in the past year. Even though compatability modes exist, it's for those that have hardware (read: HHD's) or software (read: gparted's rescue iso) that's still formatted for BIOS. I give it 10yrs tops before the BIOS firmware goes the way of AGP or ISA buses. It's just not needed anymore. It's like the systemd of hardware; live it, learn it, love it, or get left behind.

TheSaint · 2014-11-19 08:52:17

Our friends wrote a wiki.
In most of the case it just takes to find the correct wiki, everything is explained.

Jauch · 2014-11-20 12:24:00

Hi TheSaint

Thanks. In fact, I did not get to see the referenced wiki during my research.
I tried the steps in this wiki: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/US … tion_media

For sure I missed something or in my case they were not enough.

Hi Buddlespit,

The dd worked, but when booting, it was giving an error, that after some research the solution was to replace one of the files in the image. But them I run into the problem that to "repack" everything together again was not possible as a EFI bootable disk because My system isn't EFI.

In any case, on the next install, with more time, I'm pretty sure I'll be able to do what I want

Cheers,
Eduardo

TheSaint · 2014-11-20 13:12:47

Using a USB installation is like internal installation.
Prepare the ESP and other partitions as usual. GPT and/or MBR is possible. Once you had the installation on USB, you may use it to install on a computer, see this. Even the old fashion used to use pacman offsetting into another mount point will work. ( pacman -r).
Legacy BIOS will try to boot from the MBR, when UEFI BIOS will look for EF00 fat32 partition and try to launch the default /boot/EFI/Boot/bootx64.efi. For some occasion it could be overwritten by another boot loader/manager like gummiboot.
The good could be to start from the Archiso EFI directory and all surrounding files, then copy them into new ESP.

Arch Linux

#1 2014-10-30 21:40:45

Migrating from Arch to Dual Boot (Arch 64 + Win8.1 64).

#2 2014-10-31 13:15:32

Re: Migrating from Arch to Dual Boot (Arch 64 + Win8.1 64).

#3 2014-11-01 14:01:49

Re: Migrating from Arch to Dual Boot (Arch 64 + Win8.1 64).

#4 2014-11-01 14:03:48

Re: Migrating from Arch to Dual Boot (Arch 64 + Win8.1 64).

#5 2014-11-02 15:56:25

Re: Migrating from Arch to Dual Boot (Arch 64 + Win8.1 64).

#6 2014-11-15 21:47:17

Re: Migrating from Arch to Dual Boot (Arch 64 + Win8.1 64).

#7 2014-11-17 21:38:32

Re: Migrating from Arch to Dual Boot (Arch 64 + Win8.1 64).

#8 2014-11-17 23:00:37

Re: Migrating from Arch to Dual Boot (Arch 64 + Win8.1 64).

#9 2014-11-17 23:02:09

Re: Migrating from Arch to Dual Boot (Arch 64 + Win8.1 64).

#10 2014-11-18 23:45:15

Re: Migrating from Arch to Dual Boot (Arch 64 + Win8.1 64).

#11 2014-11-18 23:54:59

Re: Migrating from Arch to Dual Boot (Arch 64 + Win8.1 64).

#12 2014-11-19 01:56:32

Re: Migrating from Arch to Dual Boot (Arch 64 + Win8.1 64).

#13 2014-11-19 08:52:17

Re: Migrating from Arch to Dual Boot (Arch 64 + Win8.1 64).

#14 2014-11-20 12:24:00

Re: Migrating from Arch to Dual Boot (Arch 64 + Win8.1 64).

#15 2014-11-20 13:12:47

Re: Migrating from Arch to Dual Boot (Arch 64 + Win8.1 64).

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