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#1 2015-01-24 14:59:19

Lanz
Member
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: 2015-01-24
Posts: 11

Staying on KDE 4

Hello. I noticed that several KDE 4 apps are now being replaced with KDE 5 ones. Is there a way to stay on KDE 4? Thanks! (below are some of the apps in question)

:: Replace kdebase-katepart with extra/katepart4? [Y/n]
:: Replace kdebase-konsole with extra/konsole? [Y/n]
:: Replace kdebase-kwrite with extra/kwrite? [Y/n]
:: Replace kdeedu-kalgebra with extra/kalgebra? [Y/n]
:: Replace kdeedu-kanagram with extra/kanagram? [Y/n]
:: Replace kdeedu-khangman with extra/khangman? [Y/n]
:: Replace kdeedu-kig with extra/kig? [Y/n]
:: Replace kdeedu-parley with extra/parley? [Y/n]
:: Replace kdegraphics-gwenview with extra/gwenview? [Y/n]
:: Replace kdesdk-kapptemplate with extra/kapptemplate? [Y/n]
:: Replace kdesdk-kate with extra/kate? [Y/n]
:: Replace kdesdk-okteta with extra/okteta? [Y/n]

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#2 2015-01-24 15:20:12

agapito
Member
From: Who cares.
Registered: 2008-11-13
Posts: 641

Re: Staying on KDE 4

Edit pacman.conf

IgnoreGroup = kf5 plasma-next kde kdebase


Excuse my poor English.

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#3 2015-01-24 16:47:14

Awebb
Member
Registered: 2010-05-06
Posts: 6,275

Re: Staying on KDE 4

KDE5 is not automatically put in place of KDE4. All your packages are still KDE4, the ones in extra.

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#4 2015-01-26 07:50:30

kokoko3k
Member
Registered: 2008-11-14
Posts: 2,390

Re: Staying on KDE 4

I understood that kde4 will stay in place, but still it seems that some packages from the new kde are pulled by pacman, and i read of several problems with them around the forums.
Some functionalities that has been reported as broken (eg. kate unable to save to ftp kio slave, kwrite and kate unable to set the file encoding in the save dialog), are critical to me.

So what to do?
* Completely stop upgrading system until those problems are sorted out?
* just avoid to update those packages (katepart,kate,kwrite,konsolepart,konsole... what else?)
* avoid to upgrade everything kde related?
* Start using another desktop environment and check kde back in a while?


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#5 2015-01-26 10:26:39

Awebb
Member
Registered: 2010-05-06
Posts: 6,275

Re: Staying on KDE 4

Major KDE upgrades are a pain each and every single time, especially on rolling releases. Not upgrading packages is probably not the best idea, so I'd either try to live through the transition or use the chance to try another DE.

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#6 2015-01-26 11:55:23

Morn
Member
Registered: 2012-09-02
Posts: 886

Re: Staying on KDE 4

kokoko3k wrote:

* Start using another desktop environment and check kde back in a while?

Just combine everything that works. KDE 5 has a great desktop, Gnome 3 has nice (and stable) applications. E.g. I currently use Plasma 5 (with the menu bar at the top) and plank, but mostly run Gnome applications (esp. the file manager, text editor, media player, and terminal emulator).

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#7 2015-01-26 12:06:44

pb
Member
From: Krakow, PL
Registered: 2014-12-26
Posts: 336
Website

Re: Staying on KDE 4

If anybody want to stay with KDE4 should:
1. edit pacman.conf as agapito wrote in #2
2. edit pacman.conf and add to IgnorePkg all those apps were ported to Qt5/KF5. The list of them you can find in https://www.kde.org/announcements/annou … 4.12.0.php and similar list will be publiced on kde.org for KDE Applications 15.04.
But everybody should to remember that non ported applications and non LTS parts of KDE lost support from KDE Team. Then even when some bugs were find, for example, in konsole, they were patched in new version of Konsole (build against of KF5) but not in kdebase-konsole (build for KDE4).

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#8 2015-01-26 13:22:06

kokoko3k
Member
Registered: 2008-11-14
Posts: 2,390

Re: Staying on KDE 4

Thank you guys.


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#9 2015-01-26 15:00:05

Thaodan
Member
From: Dortmund, Nordrein-Westfalen
Registered: 2012-04-28
Posts: 448

Re: Staying on KDE 4

my problem is that the globalmenz stuff isn'T ported, Amarok  too and my Qt Style.


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#10 2015-01-26 19:13:19

pb
Member
From: Krakow, PL
Registered: 2014-12-26
Posts: 336
Website

Re: Staying on KDE 4

Thaodan wrote:

my problem is that the globalmenz stuff isn'T ported, Amarok  too and my Qt Style.

I don't understand you. If you stay on KDE4, then any ported (to Qt5) packages are not neccessary.

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#11 2015-01-27 13:52:43

Odaer
Member
Registered: 2010-08-14
Posts: 87

Re: Staying on KDE 4

Thaodan wrote:

my problem is that the globalmenz stuff isn'T ported, Amarok  too and my Qt Style.

Kde has splitted the desktop from the applications. As I understands it you are supposed to us "Kde applications 14.12" both with kde 4 and plasma 5. Kde applications 14.12 is both qt4/kde4 and qt5/framework5 based at the moment and but this should be transparent for the user. The applications should as I understands it integrate both in the old and new desktop. Its up to the application developer how fast they switch to qt5 and framework 5.
I think the dbus menu is in qt, not in kde and should work with qt5/kde5 based application  in a kde4 desktop.

Last edited by Odaer (2015-01-27 13:56:25)

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#12 2015-01-27 16:29:32

mathbb
Member
Registered: 2015-01-27
Posts: 7

Re: Staying on KDE 4

The globalmenu and the menubar do work in plasma from 14.12 with qt5 applications, provided you install appmenu-qt5.

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#13 2015-01-28 13:50:06

kokoko3k
Member
Registered: 2008-11-14
Posts: 2,390

Re: Staying on KDE 4

New relevant part in my pacman.conf

#kde4 mixed with kde5 apps? No thanks.
IgnoreGroup = kf5 plasma-next kde kdebase
IgnorePkg = konsole
IgnorePkg = kwrite
IgnorePkg = kate
IgnorePkg = gwenview
IgnorePkg = konsolepart4
IgnorePkg = katepart4
IgnorePkg = yakuake  

I'll keep it until something will break, and it will soon or later.

Don't get me wrong, i tried to go the arch way, but i've had to much issues like different font appaerance, different icons, different colors, missing functionalities and bugs here and there.
I'm not in the mood of being a kde beta-tester right now, and i also think that this time arch went to the wrong way.


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#14 2015-01-28 14:57:06

katsuki
Member
From: NY, USA
Registered: 2015-01-28
Posts: 26

Re: Staying on KDE 4

I get that this is supposed to be transparent to the user. Saying yes to the move to extra for most packages should keep me on KDE4. Yet, for some reason, pacman wants to pull in a slew of KDE5 dependencies, and most troubling of all, wayland.

Does anyone know why wayland is being pulled in? Is this going to mess with my X based system? I unfortunately need to be on X for the time being as VMWare (to the best of my knowledge) only works well with Linux guest OS that is using X as the display system.

:: Starting full system upgrade...
:: Replace kdebase-katepart with extra/katepart4? [Y/n] 
:: Replace kdebase-konsole with extra/konsole? [Y/n] 
:: Replace kdebase-kwrite with extra/kwrite? [Y/n] 
resolving dependencies...
:: There are 2 providers available for phonon-qt5-backend:
:: Repository extra
   1) phonon-qt5-gstreamer  2) phonon-qt5-vlc

Enter a number (default=1): 
looking for conflicting packages...

Packages (145) attica-qt5-5.6.0-1  automake-1.15-1  bison-3.0.4-1  dconf-0.22.0-1  firefox-35.0.1-1  gamin-0.1.10-8
               geoclue-0.12.99-2  gettext-0.19.4-1  iproute2-3.18.0-1  jasper-1.900.1-13  karchive-5.6.0-1  katepart4-4.14.3-2
               kauth-5.6.0-1  kbookmarks-5.6.0-1  kcodecs-5.6.0-1  kcompletion-5.6.0-1  kconfig-5.6.0-1  kconfigwidgets-5.6.0-1
               kcoreaddons-5.6.0-1  kcrash-5.6.0-1  kdbusaddons-5.6.0-1  kde-base-artwork-14.12.1-1  kde-meta-kdeadmin-14.12-1
               kde-meta-kdeartwork-14.12-1  kde-meta-kdebase-14.12-1  kde-meta-kdemultimedia-14.12-1  kde-meta-kdeutils-14.12-1
               kde-wallpapers-14.12.1-1  kdeadmin-kcron-14.12.1-1  kdeadmin-ksystemlog-14.12.1-1  kdeadmin-kuser-14.12.1-1
               kdeartwork-colorschemes-14.12.1-1  kdeartwork-desktopthemes-14.12.1-1  kdeartwork-emoticons-14.12.1-1
               kdeartwork-iconthemes-14.12.1-1  kdeartwork-kscreensaver-14.12.1-1  kdeartwork-styles-14.12.1-1
               kdeartwork-wallpapers-14.12.1-1  kdeartwork-weatherwallpapers-14.12.1-1  kdebase-dolphin-14.12.1-2
               kdebase-katepart-4.14.3-1 [removal]  kdebase-kdepasswd-14.12.1-2  kdebase-kdialog-14.12.1-2
               kdebase-keditbookmarks-14.12.1-2  kdebase-kfind-14.12.1-2  kdebase-konq-plugins-14.12.1-2
               kdebase-konqueror-14.12.1-2  kdebase-konsole-4.14.3-1 [removal]  kdebase-kwrite-4.14.3-1 [removal]
               kdebase-lib-14.12.1-2  kdebase-plasma-14.12.1-2  kdebase-runtime-14.12.1-1  kdebase-workspace-4.11.15-1
               kded-5.6.0-1  kdegraphics-mobipocket-14.12.1-1  kdelibs-4.14.4-1  kdelibs4support-5.6.0-1
               kdemultimedia-audiocd-kio-14.12.1-1  kdemultimedia-dragonplayer-14.12.1-1  kdemultimedia-ffmpegthumbs-14.12.1-1
               kdemultimedia-juk-14.12.1-1  kdemultimedia-kmix-14.12.1-1  kdemultimedia-kscd-14.12.1-1
               kdemultimedia-mplayerthumbs-14.12.1-1  kdepim-runtime-4.14.4-1  kdepimlibs-4.14.4-1  kdesignerplugin-5.6.0-1
               kdeutils-ark-14.12.1-1  kdeutils-filelight-14.12.1-1  kdeutils-kcalc-14.12.1-1  kdeutils-kcharselect-14.12.1-1
               kdeutils-kdf-14.12.1-1  kdeutils-kfloppy-14.12.1-1  kdeutils-kgpg-14.12.1-1  kdeutils-kremotecontrol-14.12.1-1
               kdeutils-ktimer-14.12.1-1  kdeutils-kwalletmanager-14.12.1-1  kdeutils-print-manager-14.12.1-1
               kdeutils-superkaramba-14.12.1-1  kdeutils-sweeper-14.12.1-1  kdewebkit-5.6.0-1  kemoticons-5.6.0-1
               kglobalaccel-5.6.0-1  kguiaddons-5.6.0-1  ki18n-5.6.0-1  kiconthemes-5.6.0-1  kinit-5.6.0-1  kio-5.6.0-1
               kitemmodels-5.6.0-1  kitemviews-5.6.0-1  kjobwidgets-5.6.0-1  knewstuff-5.6.0-1  knotifications-5.6.0-1
               knotifyconfig-5.6.0-1  konsole-14.12.1-1  kparts-5.6.0-1  kplotting-5.6.0-1  kpty-5.6.0-1  kservice-5.6.0-1
               ksshaskpass-5.2.0-1  ktexteditor-5.6.0-1  ktextwidgets-5.6.0-1  kunitconversion-5.6.0-1  kwallet-5.6.0-1
               kwidgetsaddons-5.6.0-1  kwindowsystem-5.6.0-1  kwrite-14.12.1-4  kxmlgui-5.6.0-1
               libdbusmenu-qt5-0.9.3+14.10.20140619-1  libgit2-1:0.21.1-2  libkcddb-14.12.1-1  libkcompactdisc-14.12.1-1
               libkexiv2-14.12.1-1  libkolabxml-1.1.0-1  libtool-2.4.5-1  libxkbcommon-0.5.0-1  libxkbcommon-x11-0.5.0-1
               linux-3.18.4-1  mesa-10.4.3-1  mesa-libgl-10.4.3-1  openresolv-3.6.1-1  oxygen-icons-14.12.1-1  pacman-4.2.0-6
               patch-2.7.3-1  phonon-qt5-4.8.3-1  phonon-qt5-gstreamer-4.8.2-1  polkit-qt5-0.112-2  qt5-base-5.4.0-3
               qt5-declarative-5.4.0-3  qt5-location-5.4.0-3  qt5-script-5.4.0-3  qt5-sensors-5.4.0-3  qt5-svg-5.4.0-3
               qt5-webchannel-5.4.0-3  qt5-webkit-5.4.0-3  qt5-x11extras-5.4.0-3  qt5-xmlpatterns-5.4.0-3  qtchooser-48-1
               serf-1.3.8-1  solid-5.6.0-1  sonnet-5.6.0-1  sqlite-3.8.8.1-1  threadweaver-5.6.0-1  ttf-oxygen-1:5.2.0-1
               wayland-1.6.1-1

Total Download Size:   461.17 MiB
Total Installed Size:  941.67 MiB
Net Upgrade Size:      252.19 MiB

:: Proceed with installation? [Y/n] n

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#15 2015-01-28 15:00:27

pb
Member
From: Krakow, PL
Registered: 2014-12-26
Posts: 336
Website

Re: Staying on KDE 4

kokoko3k wrote:

New relevant part in my pacman.conf

#kde4 mixed with kde5 apps? No thanks.
IgnoreGroup = kf5 plasma-next kde kdebase

You will not be able to upgrade any kde applications if you Put kde and kdebase to IgnoreGroup. Probably better for you is something like below:

IgnoreGroup = kf5 plasma-next
IgnorePkg = konsole kwrite kate gwenview konsolepart4 katepart4 yakuake

until KDE Applications 15.04 will be released. It ignore only applications in kf5 and plasma-next groups and those apps, which have been ported to KF5 from KDE Applications 12.04.x. Any new applications won't be ported to KF5 with this (12.04) release of KDE Applications.

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#16 2015-01-29 14:31:33

Lone_Wolf
Member
From: Netherlands, Europe
Registered: 2005-10-04
Posts: 11,868

Re: Staying on KDE 4

katsuki wrote:

Does anyone know why wayland is being pulled in? Is this going to mess with my X based system?

Wayland has been a dependency for mesa for a long time now, it is not used unless you explicitly start it.


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#17 2015-01-29 15:05:23

katsuki
Member
From: NY, USA
Registered: 2015-01-28
Posts: 26

Re: Staying on KDE 4

Lone_Wolf wrote:
katsuki wrote:

Does anyone know why wayland is being pulled in? Is this going to mess with my X based system?

Wayland has been a dependency for mesa for a long time now, it is not used unless you explicitly start it.

Excellent, thank you!

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#18 2015-02-03 11:39:12

kokoko3k
Member
Registered: 2008-11-14
Posts: 2,390

Re: Staying on KDE 4

pb wrote:
kokoko3k wrote:

New relevant part in my pacman.conf

#kde4 mixed with kde5 apps? No thanks.
IgnoreGroup = kf5 plasma-next kde kdebase

You will not be able to upgrade any kde applications if you Put kde and kdebase to IgnoreGroup. Probably better for you is something like below:

IgnoreGroup = kf5 plasma-next
IgnorePkg = konsole kwrite kate gwenview konsolepart4 katepart4 yakuake

until KDE Applications 15.04 will be released. It ignore only applications in kf5 and plasma-next groups and those apps, which have been ported to KF5 from KDE Applications 12.04.x. Any new applications won't be ported to KF5 with this (12.04) release of KDE Applications.

Thanks, tested on a new update ad it worked well.


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#19 2015-02-04 01:16:14

cfr
Member
From: Cymru
Registered: 2011-11-27
Posts: 7,130

Re: Staying on KDE 4

Is there a way of configuring the new applications? Not only does Konsole ignore my global configuration and forget local configuration changes when restarted, it forgets local changes if I merely switch to another application and back. For example, I have Alt + V set as the keyboard shortcut for paste in Konsole. If I set this within Konsole, it immediately works. If I switch to another application and then return, however, it has forgotten the setting.

I am not certain whether this is related to the fact that Konsole is now picking up my system default locale, rather than the setting in KDE's settings. I don't mind this, but KDE doesn't support my preferred locale (which is why my second choice is set in KDE's settings). I'm wondering if this is related just because 'paste' is one of the things which now appears localised. (But the Alt + C setting works OK for 'copy' and that is also localised.)

KDE is also not saving sessions but the keyboard shortcut is the real killer. [The default shortcut doesn't work properly either, and the secondary one uses keys which don't exist on my keyboard.]


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#20 2015-02-08 05:23:31

Fincer
Member
Registered: 2014-05-18
Posts: 21

Re: Staying on KDE 4

Completely stop upgrading system until those problems are sorted out?

I take this approach - well, partially. I'll probably check available updates in regular intervals and update the most important software packages manually. Problems with this approach will likely be some strange bugs/errors appearing someday. If it's the price I have to pay, so be it. Regardless, I stick on KDE4/Plasma4 until the transition to Plasma5 will be as smooth as possible.

And what comes to security updates. To be honest, I feel my system secure enough without mixed Plasma5 and Plasma4 stuff popping up additionally on my screen. For god sake, I could run Ubuntu 10.04 on my laptop over a year after the official support was dropped out by Canonical - without a single security issue. So why not outdated Arch as well. It's much less pain in the ass than fighting with Plasma5 stuff and broken desktop environments right now.

I already downgraded konsole, okteta, cups and kate back to Qt4 versions (thankfully I had earlier versions in /var/cache/pacman/pkg/ so no headaches with finding PKGBUILD's and stuff around web). I got enough headache with Qt5 equivalent versions of these packages in the form of changed service names, pre-configured settings not compatible out-of-the-box etc. ("Where can I change settings for my Plasma5 app? and like that...)

Still, after all criticism, I hope developers will gradually move from Plasma4 to Plasma5. Plasma5 looks just great. It's the transition phase what is just...well, you already got me.

Edit:

A good quote from Arch wiki:

"The most important tip to remember is to not "blindly" update Arch systems. Always read the list of packages to be updated."

link

Last edited by Fincer (2015-02-08 12:45:52)

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#21 2015-02-08 14:06:35

kokoko3k
Member
Registered: 2008-11-14
Posts: 2,390

Re: Staying on KDE 4

already downgraded konsole, okteta, cups and kate back to Qt4 versions

cups?


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#22 2015-02-08 15:06:49

Fincer
Member
Registered: 2014-05-18
Posts: 21

Re: Staying on KDE 4

Well, had random problems with the new version, so I downgraded it with all the other mentioned packages.  Though it's not a Qt5 app. Bit misleading, sorry. Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned it at all in that message because it's not a package related to this topic. Anyway...

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#23 2015-02-25 07:18:25

kokoko3k
Member
Registered: 2008-11-14
Posts: 2,390

Re: Staying on KDE 4

Given what is about to happen:
https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=194029

Who, like me, wanted to keep older version of some packages like kate, konsole, gwenview and so on, would need to rebuild them somehow.
I tried to fetch older version of kwrite from svn by following the wiki here:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?ti … S_From_SVN

So i tried:

kokonicki@netbook /tmp $ svn checkout --depth=empty svn://svn.archlinux.org/packages
Checked out revision 231966.
kokonicki@netbook /tmp $ cd packages
kokonicki@netbook /tmp/packages $   svn update kdebase-kwrite
Updating 'kdebase-kwrite':
At revision 231966.
kokonicki@netbook /tmp/packages $ svn log kdebase-kwrite
svn: E155010: The node '/tmp/packages/kdebase-kwrite' was not found.
kokonicki@netbook /tmp/packages $ svn update kwrite
Updating 'kwrite':
At revision 231966.
kokonicki@netbook /tmp/packages $ svn log kwrite
svn: E155010: The node '/tmp/packages/kwrite' was not found.
kokonicki@netbook /tmp/packages $ 

Question is: how to fetch an older pkgbuild for outdated packages like that?
Thanks.

Last edited by kokoko3k (2015-02-25 07:18:53)


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#24 2015-02-25 07:37:26

Scimmia
Fellow
Registered: 2012-09-01
Posts: 11,466

Re: Staying on KDE 4

try cd to the package dir before running svn log.

Edit: wait, the problem is that you're trying to grab the package, not the pkgbase. You "update" the pkgbase; for instance, kwrite is currently built as part of kate.

Last edited by Scimmia (2015-02-25 07:40:48)

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#25 2015-02-25 07:45:54

kokoko3k
Member
Registered: 2008-11-14
Posts: 2,390

Re: Staying on KDE 4

Ok, thanks.

those revisions seems to be good:

svn update kdegraphics-gwenview -r 229000
svn update kdebase-konsole -r 229000
svn update kdesdk-kate -r 229000
$ grep -R pkgver\= |grep x86_64
kdebase-konsole/repos/extra-x86_64/PKGBUILD:pkgver=4.14.3
kdegraphics-gwenview/repos/extra-x86_64/PKGBUILD:pkgver=4.14.3
kdesdk-kate/repos/extra-x86_64/PKGBUILD:pkgver=4.14.3

...i'll see if there are other packages to pull when gcc5 will hit core.

Last edited by kokoko3k (2015-02-25 08:04:37)


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