Arch derivatives ; the wall.

ewaller · 2015-02-05 05:10:03

Yes folks, Jasonwryan is serious. We do indeed get those. ^^^

Scimmia · 2015-02-05 05:17:37

I think everyone who interacts with the public gets those from time to time. There are a lot of unhinged people out there.

frank604 · 2015-02-05 05:27:23

Hear hear! A toast to our brave front line mods. Taking a bullet for the community.

Edit: Congrats scimmia for post # 3,000!

Last edited by frank604 (2015-02-05 05:27:52)

Head_on_a_Stick · 2015-02-05 07:13:10

TheSaint wrote:

For example, even there's no links (web browser) in the base & base-devel groups.

elinks is on the Arch live ISO

Allan · 2015-02-05 09:17:17

ewaller wrote:

Yes folks, Jasonwryan is serious. We do indeed get those. ^^^

I still keep a collection!

tomk · 2015-02-05 09:51:24

TheSaint wrote:

Furthermore the web pages are increasingly adding flash applets that won't disclose the containing text even in links.

Can you give us an example of an Arch issue that could only be solved by visiting a flash-driven web page?

drcouzelis · 2015-02-05 12:22:18

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

TheSaint wrote:
For example, even there's no links (web browser) in the base & base-devel groups.
elinks is on the Arch live ISO

...and if you've gotten far along enough to install "base" and "base-devel" then you can install ANY web browser... like Firefox.

chaonaut · 2015-02-05 12:32:39

as for me, i’m working on arch derivative using musl instead of glibc.
why? because i can, and because i like arch more than alpine

clfarron4 · 2015-02-05 15:58:21

drcouzelis wrote:

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
TheSaint wrote:
For example, even there's no links (web browser) in the base & base-devel groups.
elinks is on the Arch live ISO
...and if you've gotten far along enough to install "base" and "base-devel" then you can install ANY web browser... like Firefox.

As long as you have an internet connection, you can pretty much get most text-based browsers working right off the bat. I've been known to hit a problem during the installation process, open up another tty and install lynx, so that I can Google (I'm comfortable with lynx, so that's what I use for terminal browsers).

Scimmia · 2015-02-05 19:24:36

frank604 wrote:

Edit: Congrats scimmia for post # 3,000!

Thanks! I hadn't even realized how close I was getting.

Xyne · 2015-02-05 20:27:03

jasonwryan wrote:

angry from the internets wrote:
Wow you're a n______ for closing that thread. It would have taken your pompous
ass just as long to reply with the information I needed as to tell me to
basically f____ off because I wasn't using your favorite distro. F_____. I
was having the same problem as was being discussed. Thanks for your help.
N_______. I hope your dog f____ your wife and gives her cancer. N_____.

Wow it's not bad enough that you had to close my thread. Oh no, you had to go and f_____ post my private f_____ mail too. You are such a f_____ n_____! I hope your hamster rapes your goldfish and breaks her bowl. N_____!

In the event of any confusion or unwarranted offense, here are the missing letters from the blanks:
1) urtively
2) an
3) ine ge
4) tleman
5) OT

Last edited by Xyne (2015-02-05 20:30:15)

frank604 · 2015-02-05 20:30:42

Oh my god Xyne, you just took this to a whole new level lol.

Xyne · 2015-02-05 20:35:24

frank604 wrote:

Oh my god Xyne, you just took this to a whole new level lol.

Yeah, I think I may have been a little out of line with the goldfish remark, but Jason has thick skin and I'm sure the goldfish can take it.

Trilby · 2015-02-05 20:40:57

One must be careful how they fill in those blanks.

exidux · 2015-02-05 23:20:07

Interesting read, but i am still internally questioning the following ;

What if a user takes Arch, gives it an installer, X11, DWM, and a few keyboard shortcuts to then distribute it as the fictional 'Archfast 1 calorie version'. Nothing except the installer and the generic configuration would deviate from Arch its core, and adds a iso.txt with his credit for packing the iso and making an installer.

Would this be seen as a derivative in need of its own forum and community with no place for help on bbs.archlinux.org ?

Last edited by exidux (2015-02-06 00:45:45)

frank604 · 2015-02-05 23:30:49

exidux wrote:

Interesting read, but i am still internally questioning the following ;
What if a user takes Arch, gives it an installer, X11, DWM, and a few keyboard shortcuts to then distribute it as the fictional 'Archfast 1 calorie version'. Nothing except the installer and the generic configurtion would deviate from Arch its core, and adds a iso.txt with his credit for packing the iso and making an installer.
Would this be seen as a derivative in need of its own forum and community with no place for help on bbs.archlinux.org ?

I think the trend is Zero Calories. 1 is 1 too many my friend.

As to my 2c on your question. The answer would be yes. First of all, it isn't our mods and community's job to double check to ensure that nothing deviated from this distro. Second of all, the people who used Archfast 0 calorie version [Fixed it for you], will not know how their system works or what is installed. We shouldn't need to hold their hand if they haven't learned the basics. Thirdly, Arch is bleeding edge. What we use today might be deprecated tomorrow. SysVinit for example. So yes, even though it may "look" like a plain jane arch install, if the user wishes to use that distro, they should stick to that community and seek help as they would know their system better.

TheSaint · 2015-02-06 02:02:12

clfarron4 wrote:

As long as you have an internet connection, you can pretty much get most text-based browsers

The rant isn't my direct involvement, rather it is from those asking help in the local forum. I can handle it as you said.

Anyways, it's pretty mandatory to be able to consult documentations, open files, copy command from web sites and modifying configurations. Text based installation may not be able to handle a clipboard.
Many people out there are looking for usability in the first place, so that leads their choices to a derivative.
When the problems arise from these distros, then they are bounced back to the parent, the Arch linux. Isn't it ?

Inxsible · 2015-02-06 15:30:02

TheSaint wrote:

Many people out there are looking for usability in the first place, so that leads their choices to a derivative.
When the problems arise from these distros, then they are bounced back to the parent, the Arch linux. Isn't it ?

And therein lies the problem, Arch Linux has never purported to be a newbie friendly distribution. That doesn't mean we don't want new users at all. It just means we want competent new users and the definition of competent in this regard is a user who knows at least the basics of his/her system and is willing to take the pains to research the solution for any problems that they might have before posting on the forums.

These "Arch made easy" types of distributions allow for users unlike the above to be able to say they are running Arch, when they are really not. They don't know anything about their systems because the new distro has made all the choices for them and when we ask them to provide us some information, they are generally lost because either

They don't know where and how to get that information
They think they are entitled to be handed a fix because "an update" broke it

We neither have the time nor the will to support those kinds of users.

In my opinion, having an installer -- and only that -- doesn't make it a separate distro. Arch had an installer for many years before it was deprecated for lack of maintenance. I used it when I installed Arch and I am not ashamed of it. Today, there is no installer, so I adapt and see what needs to be done and do it if I need to install Arch. Some people may want an installer and that's fine too. The only reason we don't support them on the forum is exactly because we cannot be responsible to go and check the other distro's code to make sure they didn't add any other changes except for the said "installer".

ewaller · 2015-02-06 15:38:55

Okay, I confess. I have an Arch installer. It is my Android Phone. It has an Arch boot image on it that it can share by emulating a USB storage device to an computer attached via USB. It also acts as a "wired" network interface over USB to the host computer ans NATs that to either wireless data or Wifi. It also has the Arch Wiki app installed. I can walk up to any computer that can boot from USB and install Arch in a few minutes.
Someday, I may even go to the extreme of caching packages on it -- if I end up installing enough systems

exidux · 2015-02-06 17:02:07

ewaller wrote:

It also acts as a "wired" network interface over USB to the host computer ans NATs that to either wireless data or Wifi.

Now that's interesting. (°_°)

Alad · 2015-02-06 17:06:32

Today, there is no installer

Well... to be precise, there's Archboot. I suppose it's "official" as the originating package is in extra.

Last edited by Alad (2015-02-06 17:06:45)

ANOKNUSA · 2015-02-06 17:10:48

exidux wrote:

ewaller wrote:
It also acts as a "wired" network interface over USB to the host computer ans NATs that to either wireless data or Wifi.
Now that's interesting. (°_°)

I assume DriveDroid is the "installer" in question.

frank604 · 2015-02-06 17:23:54

@anoknusa TIL, I knew I'd learn something from this thread. Thank you. I don't know if you guys do this but I actually carry a very small bootable arch install iso. You never know when your laptop will need repairs right? I leave it in my jacket at all times. Now I can ditch it and use my phone! Awesome!

Scimmia · 2015-02-06 17:29:15

frank604 wrote:

@anoknusa TIL, I knew I'd learn something from this thread. Thank you. I don't know if you guys do this but I actually carry a very small bootable arch install iso. You never know when your laptop will need repairs right? I leave it in my jacket at all times. Now I can ditch it and use my phone! Awesome!

I've carried a flash drive on my keychain for a long time, comes in handy in all kinds of situations. I simply partition off a couple of Gb at the end and install Arch to it. Main partition is NTFS for use wherever.

ewaller · 2015-02-06 17:42:59

ANOKNUSA wrote:

I assume DriveDroid is the "installer" in question.

It is -- for the USB storage part. The "Wired" part is USB tethering -- It appears to the computer as a wired USB based NIC. The PITA was my new T-Mobile HTC one M8 insisted on turning off wifi and using mobile data when you tried to tether. Of course, that makes sense for a Wifi Hot-Spot, but why force the radio off when using a USB tether -- I wanted to share the Wifi, not the metered, overpriced mobile data. Anyway, a bit of root magic and some thrown-together Java code fixed that right up

As to the wiki viewer: I highly recommend it: https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta … ewer&hl=en Kudos to jtmcn -- Well done.

Arch Linux

#26 2015-02-05 05:10:03

Re: Arch derivatives ; the wall.

#27 2015-02-05 05:17:37

Re: Arch derivatives ; the wall.

#28 2015-02-05 05:27:23

Re: Arch derivatives ; the wall.

#29 2015-02-05 07:13:10

Re: Arch derivatives ; the wall.

#30 2015-02-05 09:17:17

Re: Arch derivatives ; the wall.

#31 2015-02-05 09:51:24

Re: Arch derivatives ; the wall.

#32 2015-02-05 12:22:18

Re: Arch derivatives ; the wall.

#33 2015-02-05 12:32:39

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#34 2015-02-05 15:58:21

Re: Arch derivatives ; the wall.

#35 2015-02-05 19:24:36

Re: Arch derivatives ; the wall.

#36 2015-02-05 20:27:03

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#37 2015-02-05 20:30:42

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#38 2015-02-05 20:35:24

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#39 2015-02-05 20:40:57

Re: Arch derivatives ; the wall.

#40 2015-02-05 23:20:07

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#41 2015-02-05 23:30:49

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#42 2015-02-06 02:02:12

Re: Arch derivatives ; the wall.

#43 2015-02-06 15:30:02

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#44 2015-02-06 15:38:55

Re: Arch derivatives ; the wall.

#45 2015-02-06 17:02:07

Re: Arch derivatives ; the wall.

#46 2015-02-06 17:06:32

Re: Arch derivatives ; the wall.

#47 2015-02-06 17:10:48

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#48 2015-02-06 17:23:54

Re: Arch derivatives ; the wall.

#49 2015-02-06 17:29:15

Re: Arch derivatives ; the wall.

#50 2015-02-06 17:42:59

Re: Arch derivatives ; the wall.

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