KDE problem with the transition to plasma 5

olive · 2015-02-08 08:42:57

I had kde4 installed but I have switched to kde5 because I had problems with new applications not respecting kde4 settings. It looks much like kde4 but it seems buggy. I do not know if it is me but I have seen several bugs and problems just using the desktop for an hour or two.

1) First, is is unclear how to install a full kde5 desktop. We have to install plasma-meta, but how to install the standard set of kde apps? Installing the kde group lead to a conflict with kde-workspace. The solution I have found is 1) Install the full kde group 2) remove kde-workspace and its dependencies 3) install plasma-meta.

2) konsole cannot start wity a fixed size (Settings -> Edit current profile -> Terminal Size is ignored even if we disable "Use current window size on next startup).

3) Klipper action are not trigered by the shortcut key.

4) kmix is not running by default (as a workaround we can start it explicitly in Settings -> Startup and shutdown -> autostart); but such basic component should be running by default.

5) Power and sleep button have no effect (although they are configured in "Global keyboard and shortcut). As a workaround we can reconfigure these keys to launch "systemctl poweroff" and "systemctl suspend" explicitly.

6) I can't find the option anymore to disable the password locked screen when resuming from suspend.

[Updated] 7) The Trash on the desktop appear as a standard folder. I could live with it, would it be an isolated problem.

I have only tested a small part of kde and this is already a lot... By the way i do not think Arch have taken the right decision by providing this mixture of kde4 and 5. It should have provided a clean way to install the full kde5 (when it is ready) with a simple group install as before and possibly removing the old kde4 workspace. The "smooth transition" they mention on the Archlinux page is much worse than an abrupt global switch to kde5. I do not think the mixture Archliux package was foreseen by upstream.

i am a litle sad to see that each time a new version of the desktop (any desktop...) is released, we have something bugy for a year or two before it become stable. As a consequence, we are left most of the time with beta software.

Last edited by olive (2015-02-08 14:08:46)

pcxz · 2015-02-08 10:22:44

My personal opinion, is necessary have stable kde4 release for people use computer any day in work or in little time ( and not want spend all the time in problem).

olive · 2015-02-08 10:29:45

pcxz wrote:

My personal opinion, is necessary have stable kde4 release for people use computer any day in work or in little time ( and not want spend all the time in problem).

I agree with. I would be happy with a stable release of kde5. But for now, we have no stable kde at all. It was stable before Archlinux began this partial upgrade process.

Last edited by olive (2015-02-08 10:30:04)

finex · 2015-02-08 11:42:40

Is it possible to downgrade to the latest KDE4 stable release on Archlinux without any kf5/plasma5 component? Being a kde/kate/konsole power this situation is quite annoying...

olive · 2015-02-08 13:42:10

finex wrote:

Is it possible to downgrade to the latest KDE4 stable release on Archlinux without any kf5/plasma5 component? Being a kde/kate/konsole power this situation is quite annoying...

Unfortunately, I don't think it is possible (unless maybe you use the Arch Roll back machine to downgrade the whole system to a previous date). You can downgrade the workspace but you cannot downgrade the apps. kde5 apps running in kde4 will have problems because they can't integrate properly with the desktop. Some of the apps make part of the desktop (I have seen the kde5 baloo indexing and taking 100% CPU because it couldn't see the kde4 setting where it is disabled). I have made this post because i was irritated by the situation. I think Archlinux should have waited until kde5 is truly stable and switch to it completely rather than providing the mess we are in. I am not even sure i have installed this kde5 properly (there is no package group to install a full kde5 desktop) and possibly some of the bugs are due to that.

I do not felicitate the kde devs either. How can they release such pre alpha software as stable? Even the Technical preview of Windows are much more stable than that. It is not something that please me, because i like free software and GNU/Linux much more; but it wouldn't make sense to deny the obvious. I know this is (mostly) done by volunteers in their free time but they HAD with kde4 something stable and nice.

Last edited by olive (2015-02-08 14:02:29)

inktvis75 · 2015-02-08 15:32:27

Yes the transition is not very smooth, but doable ...
I did a clean install of Arch, install plasma-meta and tried to avoid as many as possible kde4 packages (basicly do not install everything asking for:

resolving dependencies...
:: There are 2 providers available for phonon-qt4-backend:
:: Repository extra
1) phonon-qt4-gstreamer 2) phonon-qt4-vlc

Enter a number (default=1): 1
looking for conflicting packages...
:: kdebase-runtime and khelpcenter are in conflict. Remove khelpcenter? [y/N] NNNNNN

My biggest problem: no dolphin, if you install that somehow from AUR, it's absolutely not stable, and effects the stability from the desktop. So installed pcmanfm-qt-git. It's also a good idea to install a iconset like flattr, the breeze set is far from complete.

Not recommended for a beginner, but I am very happy with my plasma5 desktop, it's amazing fast and stable. I don't have any of the problems of Olive... Actually it's the first time I really like the KDE environment

kar · 2015-02-08 17:06:15

inktvis75 wrote:

My biggest problem: no dolphin, if you install that somehow from AUR, it's absolutely not stable, and effects the stability from the desktop. So installed pcmanfm-qt-git.

Yes, me too. Dolphin is really the biggest problem (at the moment, I test only the Qt4 version), particularly because of the problem with places/bookmarks in Dolphin (because of a bug in kbookmarks - https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=342685). So, I installed the Qt version of PCManFM. The bookmarks in PCManFM-Qt works without problems!

It's also a good idea to install a iconset like flattr, the breeze set is far from complete.

I prefer the icon theme "ultra-flat-icons" (AUR). I think, I will use it, until Breeze is complete, because I like Breeze. It looks really good. ;-)

Last edited by kar (2015-02-08 20:01:11)

pcxz · 2015-02-08 18:52:59

Oh yes PCManFM work ok also in my lxde desktop manager, also geany or lxterminal work ok ..the point is not that!!
If i want use my computer with archlinux now, have to use other desktop manager, last Kde and its packages is not usable ..this is the problem!!

Last edited by pcxz (2015-02-08 18:55:10)

cfr · 2015-02-08 23:17:00

I'm sure I've not installed it correctly because I can't follow the instructions for configuring plasma.

So far, plasma has crashed once.

Currently, I have a panel from which the widgets have disappeared completely. So I have no clock, no notifications, no pager, no klipper, no anything...

There is no ability to use different background for different desktops. Alt-tab gives me the list of windows which KDE 4 used in fallback mode when it couldn't manage anything else. And the window manager isn't working properly so my 2 firefox windows are not part of the same window and there is no 'attach as tab to...' in the menu.

The wiki mentions various ways of configuring things e.g. adding a 'fancy' panel. But I don't even have that option.

And I cannot work out how to configure my icon theme so that Plasma will let me use it.

My biggest problem is that I don't even know where to start troubleshooting. I don't know what to read or where to look for clues.

EDIT

Setting everything to defaults helps a bit. I get access to more settings if I use breeze throughout for appearance, rather than oxygen, for example. (I'm not sure if I have access to more or if I can just *see* more.) And sticking to a default panel also helps. So I managed to configure transitions, for example. But I still can't figure out how to attach one firefox window as a tab to another, or how to configure different backgrounds for different virtual desktops. (Or how to get custom keyboard shortcuts to work.)

Last edited by cfr (2015-02-09 02:22:37)

Asta666 · 2015-02-09 04:47:57

olive wrote:

finex wrote:
Is it possible to downgrade to the latest KDE4 stable release on Archlinux without any kf5/plasma5 component? Being a kde/kate/konsole power this situation is quite annoying...
Unfortunately, I don't think it is possible (unless maybe you use the Arch Roll back machine to downgrade the whole system to a previous date). You can downgrade the workspace but you cannot downgrade the apps. kde5 apps running in kde4 will have problems because they can't integrate properly with the desktop. Some of the apps make part of the desktop (I have seen the kde5 baloo indexing and taking 100% CPU because it couldn't see the kde4 setting where it is disabled).

I updated my system before the relevant message was posted in the news page so I ended up having to downgrade yakuake, konsole, gwenview and kwrite.
I removed the newer versions and installed the latest available from the arch rollback machine of the ones that have the prefix, which are the qt4 ones. Then I searched my system for orphan packages and removed most/all of the qt5/plasma-next ones. Fortunately these apps and my kde4 desktop have continued working without issues. So it might be possible depending on which packages were updated.

finex wrote:

I have made this post because i was irritated by the situation. I think Archlinux should have waited until kde5 is truly stable and switch to it completely rather than providing the mess we are in. I am not even sure i have installed this kde5 properly (there is no package group to install a full kde5 desktop) and possibly some of the bugs are due to that.
I do not felicitate the kde devs either. How can they release such pre alpha software as stable? Even the Technical preview of Windows are much more stable than that. It is not something that please me, because i like free software and GNU/Linux much more; but it wouldn't make sense to deny the obvious. I know this is (mostly) done by volunteers in their free time but they HAD with kde4 something stable and nice.

+1.

olive · 2015-02-09 08:11:23

Asta666 wrote:

I updated my system before the relevant message was posted in the news page so I ended up having to downgrade yakuake, konsole, gwenview and kwrite.
I removed the newer versions and installed the latest available from the arch rollback machine of the ones that have the prefix, which are the qt4 ones. Then I searched my system for orphan packages and removed most/all of the qt5/plasma-next ones. Fortunately these apps and my kde4 desktop have continued working without issues. So it might be possible depending on which packages were updated.

If you regret having updated your system, it is easy to come back with the arch roll back machine. Put the following server in /etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist:

Server = http://seblu.net/a/arm/2014/12/31/$repo/os/$arch

Then pacman -Syuu
Edited: pacman -Syyuu (to be sure the "old" database is downloaded).

(Adjust the date in the line above to your need). You can also use downgrade from the AUR to help you downgrade individual packages with the help of the ARM. But partially updating the system is not supported by Archlinux and can lead to problems (dependencies always assume you have the lasted version, for example). If a single package is concerned, it is often easy to handle the situation. But with the full kde, it will be problematic. You might build something that works for you, but expect breakage at every pacman -Syu.

Last edited by olive (2015-02-11 15:05:51)

Xaekai · 2015-02-09 13:43:55

The lack of session recall in Konsole is highly irritating. This is what I get for not having subscribed to the announcement mailing list.

Morn · 2015-02-09 15:45:34

olive wrote:

6) I can't find the option anymore to disable the password locked screen when resuming from suspend.

System Settings->Desktop Behavior->Screen Locking->uncheck "Lock screen on resume"

finex · 2015-02-09 19:33:44

olive wrote:

finex wrote:
Is it possible to downgrade to the latest KDE4 stable release on Archlinux without any kf5/plasma5 component? Being a kde/kate/konsole power this situation is quite annoying...
Unfortunately, I don't think it is possible (unless maybe you use the Arch Roll back machine to downgrade the whole system to a previous date). You can downgrade the workspace but you cannot downgrade the apps. kde5 apps running in kde4 will have problems because they can't integrate properly with the desktop. Some of the apps make part of the desktop (I have seen the kde5 baloo indexing and taking 100% CPU because it couldn't see the kde4 setting where it is disabled). I have made this post because i was irritated by the situation. I think Archlinux should have waited until kde5 is truly stable and switch to it completely rather than providing the mess we are in. I am not even sure i have installed this kde5 properly (there is no package group to install a full kde5 desktop) and possibly some of the bugs are due to that.
I do not felicitate the kde devs either. How can they release such pre alpha software as stable? Even the Technical preview of Windows are much more stable than that. It is not something that please me, because i like free software and GNU/Linux much more; but it wouldn't make sense to deny the obvious. I know this is (mostly) done by volunteers in their free time but they HAD with kde4 something stable and nice.

I completely agree with you. Probably I'll temporary switch to another distro while kde/archlinux is in this sad situation :-(

Anyway thanks for your suggestion.

Bye :-)

s9r · 2015-02-09 20:09:52

So far I'm quite satisfied with plasma 5. I had a working KDE 4 installation and followed the wiki: pacman -Rc kdebase-workspace ; pacman -S plasma-meta. All KDE apps I know of are there. And fyi: I got kdebase-runtime installed, not khelpcenter.

There are some glitches, like: kded5 eating one core sometimes, dropbox and some other apps do not appear in system tray, some hotkeys do not work. For my office pc I will postpone the upgrade to plasma 5, but at home I like it.

The only advice I can give you: use btrfs for your system partition and take a snapshot before upgrading. Then you can revert back any time you wish.

pcxz · 2015-02-09 20:15:49

olive wrote:

If you regret having updated your system, it is easy to come back with the arch roll back machine. Put the following server in /etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist:
Server = http://seblu.net/a/arm/2014/12/31/$repo/os/$arch
Then pacman -Syuu.

Very good ..now have old kde and all work ok!!
Thx.

gentoofu · 2015-02-10 03:26:16

I hope they push the Plasma 5.2.1 release sooner since that fixes the kded5 100% one core CPU utilization, supposedly.

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=337674#c62

Last edited by gentoofu (2015-02-11 00:51:38)

ee_lars · 2015-02-10 10:32:30

For me, the 100% cpu problem with kded5 is the main problem of the new kde infrastructure.
I'm using it on my 2 main computers and find it quite usable.
However, i wouldn't recommand it for "new users" until a really stable and polished version is released.

gripped · 2015-02-11 12:55:22

I've switched to lxqt for now. I can't be doing with one core at 100% when idle. I like a silent computer.
I'll be back when it settles down.

desaparecido · 2015-02-11 13:48:01

@gripped I'm using -git version of KF5 and Plasma and that problem (1 core at 100%) was solved from a while, and like you I installed LXQT (nice discovery) but now that all is fine (in git version ) is pleaseant to work in Plasma desktop, so wait a little bit and soon (I suppose) will bumped to stable branch.

cfr · 2015-02-11 23:16:04

I don't think I have to 100% utilisation problem... Other problems, but not that one .

gee · 2015-02-16 02:06:00

I've recompiled powerdevil with the patch and it seems to work fine now. No more kded 100%.
(I didn't want to use kde-git... kde-rel is already unstable enough...)

olive · 2015-02-17 10:10:02

I have for now switch to icewm (that I used before). It is a simple windows manager but it is OK top run any application you want. KDE5 is too unstable to be really useful, especially in Arch where you can't even have a proper pure KDE5 installation. I am interested to run something for real purpose, to do real tasks (I used Arch as my primary, and almost sole OS); not just to see how beautiful it could be. I will consider to switch back to KDE5 when it is really stable. I have no objection to the general design of this desktop (well suited for a desktop computer, nice icons, etc...) and I am confident it will eventually be stable, I just fear that once it will be stable enough, there will will be a new KDE6, which will be very new and that problems will begin again.

Last edited by olive (2015-02-17 10:12:48)

Arch Linux

#1 2015-02-08 08:42:57

KDE problem with the transition to plasma 5

#2 2015-02-08 10:22:44

Re: KDE problem with the transition to plasma 5

#3 2015-02-08 10:29:45

Re: KDE problem with the transition to plasma 5

#4 2015-02-08 11:42:40

Re: KDE problem with the transition to plasma 5

#5 2015-02-08 13:42:10

Re: KDE problem with the transition to plasma 5

#6 2015-02-08 15:32:27

Re: KDE problem with the transition to plasma 5

#7 2015-02-08 17:06:15

Re: KDE problem with the transition to plasma 5

#8 2015-02-08 18:52:59

Re: KDE problem with the transition to plasma 5

#9 2015-02-08 23:17:00

Re: KDE problem with the transition to plasma 5

#10 2015-02-09 04:47:57

Re: KDE problem with the transition to plasma 5

#11 2015-02-09 08:11:23

Re: KDE problem with the transition to plasma 5

#12 2015-02-09 13:43:55

Re: KDE problem with the transition to plasma 5

#13 2015-02-09 15:45:34

Re: KDE problem with the transition to plasma 5

#14 2015-02-09 19:33:44

Re: KDE problem with the transition to plasma 5

#15 2015-02-09 20:09:52

Re: KDE problem with the transition to plasma 5

#16 2015-02-09 20:15:49

Re: KDE problem with the transition to plasma 5

#17 2015-02-10 03:26:16

Re: KDE problem with the transition to plasma 5

#18 2015-02-10 10:32:30

Re: KDE problem with the transition to plasma 5

#19 2015-02-11 12:55:22

Re: KDE problem with the transition to plasma 5

#20 2015-02-11 13:48:01

Re: KDE problem with the transition to plasma 5

#21 2015-02-11 23:16:04

Re: KDE problem with the transition to plasma 5

#22 2015-02-16 02:06:00

Re: KDE problem with the transition to plasma 5

#23 2015-02-17 10:10:02

Re: KDE problem with the transition to plasma 5

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