Arch Linux

pbw

Member

From: Barrie ON, Canada

Registered: 2005-06-01

Posts: 65

Suggestion regarding website usability, and the AUR

Hey everyone, lately i've been doing some thinking on how to improve the website and integrating things as easily and best as possible. Before the flames on this being commercial software begin, just hear me out.

With minimal - no effort and hacking of the source code we can have these features:

· Single login/registration for everything below
· Announcements on front page piping automatically piping discussion to it's own thread in specified forum
· Blogs
· Gallery
· shared login with mediawiki
· An improved AUR system, with an accurate way to gauge package usage (which i'll describe and show below)
· Shop
· Donations system which displays in real time and adds user to a thank you page (unless they choose to be anonymous)
· Forum system lightyears better than phpbb (current info and userbase simple to import)
· Very powerful (and easy) administration/privelage system
· RSS Feeds on every Area you choose to have them for
· even our user map can be integrated with no effort
· mailing list threads piped to specified forum and vise versa

What i'm proposing is vBulletin. An owned license (one time lifetime fee) is only 160$, and i feel with the extra donations this is well worth it, in pretty much every way i can think of.

AUR system:

It probably will be easiest to show by example, so here it is - http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthre … did=108515 . The best feature this offers us (along of course with being centralized), is the way the voting would work. Right now, i know i'm guilty, but i just get too lazy and forget to always click to vote on a package i use. And also alot of the time i stop using said package.

With this system, you click install, when you have installed a package, the contributor can see exactly who installed and who hasnt (Which is good as a way to nudge people who post for support, yet havent clicked install/voted). People will be much more likely to vote/click install a package here, since doing so will enable them to be notified via email every time the package is updated. and when they uninstall and no longer wish to be notified of updates, they just click uninstall.

I know currently we have the rss feed for the aur which does similar, but afaik it only shows new packages and not updated ones?. Which can be a pain to always check to stay up to date.

Anyways, give it some thought. I've been using and hacking up vB for quite some time, so if you guys have any questions on other areas, just ask. I'm posting this to the mailing list as well. Don't take this as a flame on the current website efforts. I just feel this would make things easier to manage and stay organized, and better for the end user for the same reason.

Thanks for making it through my novel,

-- Chris O'Reilly

Moo-Crumpus

Member

From: Hessen / Germany

Registered: 2003-12-01

Posts: 1,487

Re: Suggestion regarding website usability, and the AUR

do you know a link for lightyears?

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Frumpus ♥ addict
[mu'.krum.pus], [frum.pus]

pbw

Member

From: Barrie ON, Canada

Registered: 2005-06-01

Posts: 65

Re: Suggestion regarding website usability, and the AUR

no.

[Edit]Anyways, on a serious note.. Regardless of what you guys think of the overall website suggestion. I think if nothing else, adapting the AUR voting system to be clicking install/uninstall to recieve email update when package is, rather than just remembering to vote might yield better results. Thoughts?

dtw

Forum Fellow

From: UK

Registered: 2004-08-03

Posts: 4,439

Website

Re: Suggestion regarding website usability, and the AUR

vBulletin has been suggested before and no-one was enthusiastic about it.

I am supposed to be the Forum Tech Admin ATM but I have no net connect.  I don't know if we can continue to rule vb out though...

pbw

Member

From: Barrie ON, Canada

Registered: 2005-06-01

Posts: 65

Re: Suggestion regarding website usability, and the AUR

Yeah, It was me who suggested it prior on the mailing list. Though for different reason then (then i was thinking about easing your updating, didnt think of doing the pkgbuild like you did though ).

I was just noticing how it addresses most of the website related issues people bring up. Could be good for the future, then again..

1 year is 85$ btw, if Arch was to try it out for one year without sinking 160 into an owned license.

Dusty

Schwag Merchant

From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada

Registered: 2004-01-18

Posts: 5,986

Website

Re: Suggestion regarding website usability, and the AUR

I've been pushing for "someone" to do an overhaul of the site for quite some time. I actually think the whole thing could be media-wiki based or somewhat. Integrating AUR, archlinux main, wiki, forums, planet, etc would be a worthwhile cause.

I think the main problem is finding the "someone" to do it. People have volunteered, but as far as I know, nobody's actually taken it on.

Dusty

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** Arch Linux Apparel and more ** Arch Linux stickers, laptop bags, jewelery ** I wrote a book on Python 3 ** and one on mental health **

pbw

Member

From: Barrie ON, Canada

Registered: 2005-06-01

Posts: 65

Re: Suggestion regarding website usability, and the AUR

If the route taken is a vB based one, i'd be happy to help set things up properly. I know things pretty inside out there.

Though if it's a mediawiki based one I don't know the system well enough, and i'm not sure how possible it is to easily accomplish using that to integrate.

iphitus

Forum Fellow

From: Melbourne, Australia

Registered: 2004-10-09

Posts: 4,927

Re: Suggestion regarding website usability, and the AUR

someone likes vbulletin

With minimal - no effort and hacking of the source code we can have these features:

Honestly, I doubt that. Our wiki conversion was bad enough, and that wasnt every application on the server.

As for the AUR, I stll dont get what you are saying about it, and I still dont see how you can get magically correct usage results with it -- you cant. The users can download a PKGBUILD, but theres no guarantee they will install it. TUs might download a PKGBUILD just to look at it and check if its safe, they probably dont want to 'vote' on every PKGBUILD they look at by adding another download.
With the AUR there's also the extra complication of keeping it working with it's backend and community, that you probably didnt know of or realise as you are not a TU.

Despite this, I agree, the whole setup, would be nice if it were overhauled, and if we were to do so, we ought to evaluate all the options, as there are many -- not just your favourite vbulletin. Either way, you're joking yourself when you say that we can do it with minimal effort and no hacking of the source code.

phrakture

Arch Overlord

From: behind you

Registered: 2003-10-29

Posts: 7,879

Website

Re: Suggestion regarding website usability, and the AUR

I'm going to agree here.  We do need a much more integrated system, and the AUR needs a facelift.  Sure vbulliten might be nice, but perhaps someone can compare the technical ramifications for me (us).

If *anyone* is interested in doing any sort of work on the web front-ends (forums, aur, wiki) that arch has, please contact me.  None of the developers have the time or, dare I say it, the "look and feel" skill to do fancy-pants websites (this is non-empirical, I have no idea about the design skills of the devs).

I think this realm should be moved to a more open model.  Please, either PM me here, or email me (aaron at archlinux dot org) about it, and we can figure out some details.

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http://phraktured.net

pbw

Member

From: Barrie ON, Canada

Registered: 2005-06-01

Posts: 65

Re: Suggestion regarding website usability, and the AUR

I have everything i mentioned working and running on my own site through vB (save for the install thing). Blog, mediawiki, news/announcements, gallery, etc.  It's wasnt all that much effort at all. I migrated each area coming from phpbb also, except for the blog, that started after.

I know that other systems could be used, the reason i suggested vB here, is because my site is already doing everything that we'd want arch to, or at least what i posted above. It's a gaming oriented site, but it still has the same areas.

As for the accuracy of votes, i know it wouldnt be near foolproof. I was just thinking that it would give users more incentive to vote if they recieved updates for what they have clicked installed. Just pondering ways how it could be improved, as there is room for improvement there.

phrakture

Arch Overlord

From: behind you

Registered: 2003-10-29

Posts: 7,879

Website

Re: Suggestion regarding website usability, and the AUR

1 year is 85$ btw, if Arch was to try it out for one year without sinking 160 into an owned license.

I think that would be a kick in the pants for OSS products in general.  Being that this is a linux (and thus OSS) site, I don't think using a closed source product is a good idea.

For reasons, check out the banter over Linus using bitkeeper.

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http://phraktured.net

pbw

Member

From: Barrie ON, Canada

Registered: 2005-06-01

Posts: 65

Re: Suggestion regarding website usability, and the AUR

True, i hear ya. Alot of linux/distro sites use it however, not that that means anything. The reason i mentioned the owned license in my original post here, was due to the recent amount of donations and the fact it'd be a one time deal. Then we would never have to worry about forking out more dough.

I also know how we could get an owned license within one month, without dipping into savings (yes it's legal =P). I'll pm you on that Phrakture, unless no one other than myself feels vB could be good way to go

[Edit] i'll actually pm you on that anyways, it'd help arch regardless.

_Gandalf_

Member

Registered: 2006-01-12

Posts: 735

Re: Suggestion regarding website usability, and the AUR

I think that would be a kick in the pants for OSS products in general.  Being that this is a linux (and thus OSS) site, I don't think using a closed source product is a good idea.

For reasons, check out the banter over Linus using bitkeeper.

That took a huge discussion phrakture and it seems that ppl have another view to this

:arrow: ubuntu is a free/open source soft, why not the board is one of the open source also??

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[My Blog] | [My Repo] | [My AUR Packages]

fax8

Member

From: Italy

Registered: 2006-03-14

Posts: 104

Website

Re: Suggestion regarding website usability, and the AUR

IMHO using a closed source web application for an open linux distribution is really a ugly thing.

There are open source web application that will to the trick.

Personally I've been involved in the development of drupal and
I think that it will do the trick.

Fabio

pbw

Member

From: Barrie ON, Canada

Registered: 2005-06-01

Posts: 65

Re: Suggestion regarding website usability, and the AUR

IMHO using a closed source web application for an open linux distribution is really a ugly thing.

It does cost money, but you get full access to modify and view the source.

Drupal is nice though

WillySilly

Member

Registered: 2005-01-14

Posts: 268

Re: Suggestion regarding website usability, and the AUR

I like the whole if it ain't broke don't fix it mantra.

T-Dawg

Forum Fellow

From: Charlotte, NC

Registered: 2005-01-29

Posts: 2,736

Re: Suggestion regarding website usability, and the AUR

I like the whole if it ain't broke don't fix it mantra.

so do I

stonecrest

Member

From: Boulder

Registered: 2005-01-22

Posts: 1,190

Re: Suggestion regarding website usability, and the AUR

I like the whole if it ain't broke don't fix it mantra.

It also tends to fit in nicely with the whole "I'm lazy" mantra.

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I am a gated community.

RaLX

Member

Registered: 2005-10-17

Posts: 54

Re: Suggestion regarding website usability, and the AUR

I support the idea of the website renew, at least the unified login it's something necessary for a decent site, I think.

By the way that drupal looks fine.

PS: Maybe I can help if any workgroup is defined to do this.

arooaroo

Member

From: London, UK

Registered: 2005-01-13

Posts: 1,268

Website

Re: Suggestion regarding website usability, and the AUR

I like the whole if it ain't broke don't fix it mantra.

You could take that argument and apply it to Arch Linux. AL wasn't created because what was around was "broken". The previous offerings were either not quite as slick.

So ask yourself, where would we be without Arch?!

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arooaroo | Jacman (Pacman GUI) | Getting to Grips with LaTeX | flickr

Sigi

Member

From: Thurgau, Switzerland

Registered: 2005-09-22

Posts: 1,131

Re: Suggestion regarding website usability, and the AUR

A new, fully integrated forum-AUR-wiki-arch-super-duper-homepage would be nice, but I also prefer to see OSS software running on the Arch Server. Just my 2€-cents.

Cheers Sigi

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Haven't been here in a while. Still rocking Arch.

Dusty

Schwag Merchant

From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada

Registered: 2004-01-18

Posts: 5,986

Website

Re: Suggestion regarding website usability, and the AUR

Ok guys, I'm gonna butt in here, I've seen this happen several times before.  While you can discuss all you want, I guarantee nothing will happen unless somebody actually chooses to do something. We talked for ages about a wiki, but it didn't happen until rasat set it up. We talked for ages about a NEW wiki, but that didn't happen until cactus set it up. We talked for ages about forum mods, but that didn't happen until dibble set it up. We talked for ages about Arch64 before syamajala and now andyRTR took on the project. We talked for ages about a custom kernel PKGBUILD before I and later dibble tackled the project. We've talked for ages about gui frontends to pacman and people have set them up and the project usually falls apart, barring jacman. and so on.

Now, if anyone is *serious* about this project, and I mean serious as in you've thought about it and realize that its HUGE, I would suggest one of two things:

1) talk to Judd and see if he has any ideas
2) start hacking something together and show it to Judd

Now, from previous experience in Arch-related development, I can guarantee that Judd won't just accept or assign someone to start this project. What he will do, however, is provide answers and feedback if someone is working on it, and if he likes the results, he will accept them as well. This is typical arch development.

I would say that since the website is such a visual first impression of Arch, Judd might want more input into it, but I doubt this is true.... if he was that concerned, something would have been done with the front page before now. ;-)

Basically, I'm saying talk all you like, but it won't do any good.

Dusty

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** Arch Linux Apparel and more ** Arch Linux stickers, laptop bags, jewelery ** I wrote a book on Python 3 ** and one on mental health **

dtw

Forum Fellow

From: UK

Registered: 2004-08-03

Posts: 4,439

Website

Re: Suggestion regarding website usability, and the AUR

Regarding a website "face lift" please also see:
http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?t=16151

See the death that died?

cactus

Taco Eater

From: t͈̫̹ͨa͖͕͎̱͈ͨ͆ć̥̖̝o̫̫̼s͈̭̱̞͍̃!̰

Registered: 2004-05-25

Posts: 4,622

Website

Re: Suggestion regarding website usability, and the AUR

I have endeavored to take on the website project.
It takes me ages to get things done though, so don't expect anything quick. (see how long it took to get the wiki migration done..lol)

--cactus, the little plant that could

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"Be conservative in what you send; be liberal in what you accept." -- Postel's Law
"tacos" -- Cactus' Law
"t̥͍͎̪̪͗a̴̻̩͈͚ͨc̠o̩̙͈ͫͅs͙͎̙͊ ͔͇̫̜t͎̳̀a̜̞̗ͩc̗͍͚o̲̯̿s̖̣̤̙͌ ̖̜̈ț̰̫͓ạ̪͖̳c̲͎͕̰̯̃̈o͉ͅs̪ͪ ̜̻̖̜͕" -- -̖͚̫̙̓-̺̠͇ͤ̃ ̜̪̜ͯZ͔̗̭̞ͪA̝͈̙͖̩L͉̠̺͓G̙̞̦͖O̳̗͍

phrakture

Arch Overlord

From: behind you

Registered: 2003-10-29

Posts: 7,879

Website

Re: Suggestion regarding website usability, and the AUR

Following up on what Dusty goes on about:
http://phraktured.net/2006/03/15/the-re … contesttm/

I wholely agree.  If I had an eye for design, this'd be done already.

Let's hop to.

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http://phraktured.net